Brake fluid service questions

[ts-pa]

I find myself in an urgent need of front brakes. The right wheel has it's brake pad worn down to the where metal has made contact with the rotor. A blinking "BRAKE" light, awful grinding noise, and rust dust on wheel confirms said condition. When I checked the brake fluid, I noticed that it appears to be darker than the last time I checked it. So I suspect that the fluid was cooked too hot. It appears as though the brake caliper was not working properly with the uneven pad wear. There was also a spot of fluid on wheel that might have been brake fluid. Possibly from piston extending too far?

My plan is to replace both front calipers, rotors, pads, install SS brake lines, and finally completely flush the brake fluid. I have read that air in the ABS or Master cylinder can be a major pain to remove.

Now that the background is established, on to the questions at hand...

1. Should I have the fluid replacement done by a professional with better tools?

If I decide to do the job...

2. How much brake fluid would I need to buy to flush out the system?

3. What tools would you recommend to do this task?

I don't mind if this thread goes off track with recommended brake parts to purchase or sources to obtain them. For example...Motorcraft calipers or is there a better option?

[Mebot]

I find myself in an urgent need of front brakes. The right wheel has it's brake pad worn down to the where metal has made contact with the rotor. A blinking "BRAKE" light, awful grinding noise, and rust dust on wheel confirms said condition. When I checked the brake fluid, I noticed that it appears to be darker than the last time I checked it. So I suspect that the fluid was cooked too hot. It appears as though the brake caliper was not working properly with the uneven pad wear. There was also a spot of fluid on wheel that might have been brake fluid. Possibly from piston extending too far?

My plan is to replace both front calipers, rotors, pads, install SS brake lines, and finally completely flush the brake fluid. I have read that air in the ABS or Master cylinder can be a major pain to remove.

Now that the background is established, on to the questions at hand...

1. Should I have the fluid replacement done by a professional with better tools?

If I decide to do the job...

2. How much brake fluid would I need to buy to flush out the system?

3. What tools would you recommend to do this task?

I don't mind if this thread goes off track with recommended brake parts to purchase or sources to obtain them. For example...Motorcraft calipers or is there a better option?

1) you can do brakes yourself. It depends on how comfortable you are turning wrenches and feeling confident and trusting yourself to do a good job. There are how-to YouTube videos as well as tons of resources here on mm.net to help you should you decide to tackle it.

2) should only need a quart and half ideally but if you want to be on the safe side get 3 qts MotorCraft dot 3 brake fluid

3) you will need some good wrenches, sockets and a mallet ( to hit your rotor with if it's stuck on)


sent from a Samsung Galaxy far far away...

[Mebot]

Oops I didn't see the part about replacing your calipers. Folks here will try to convince you to go big brakes (baer, wilwood etc) but if you are on a budget (like me) I just kept my calipers but replaced all 4 rotors, pads, installed TCE SS brake lines and bled the system

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/24/ga7y8y6a.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/24/emy4u3y7.jpg

sent from a Samsung Galaxy far far away...

[ts-pa]

Thanks Mebot for the encouragement and pictures. I am fully aware of how to do this job with basic tools. My concern is mostly in needing to change the fluid without getting air in the system after I replace the parts. Such as needing to cycle the ABS with a electronic device or power bleed the master cylinder with some other device. Both types of tools that I don't own or have never used before.

As for the larger brakes, if I had the money and time to install them, they would be on my car already. The 14" wilwood rotor kit is what I have wanted for a long time. So much so that I was working with Todd at TCE for doing a kit for my 2000 Grand Marquis back in the fall of 2009.
Too bad I can't finance them somehow. More than once, I thought of selling a treasured high value item to get the kit. The last four years has killed my credit and savings.

Being on limited funds, I'd like to get the best that I can afford. Which means sticking with factory sized set up for now just to get my DD back on the road.

[fastblackmerc]

Before you do anything, remove the old fluid from the MC. I use a turkey baster (you can get them from the dollar store - don't use the wife's because you should never use it for food preparation again!), fill with fresh fluid and keep the MC full while you are doing the work so no air enters the system. Keep the MC cap on as well as the cap on your brake fluid can as brake fluid is hygroscopic - it will absorb moisture.

You can get either the kits to rebuild the calipers or complete calipers from any good FLAPS. I don't think Ford offers complete calipers.

After you get everything replaced you can gravity bleed the system, keeping the MC full all the time.

There are plenty of Youtube videos showing how to bleed the system or replace the fluid.

BTW... your brake fluid isn't discolored because of heat, it discolored because it needs to be changed.

Good information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fluid

[ts-pa]

Thanks fastblackmerc for the correction of my misunderstanding about the fluid color. Regardless of the cause, it does need to be changed! Thansk for the tip about "gravitiy bleeding". The last time I changed a caliper was 20 yrs ago where my assistant would pump the brakes while I would open the fitting on the calipers one at a time. My helper didn't follow instructions well as she let off the pressure before I closed the valve. While I was concentrating on her understanding the commands, I erred by not keeping MC reservoir filled. What a headache after that experience.

From the autozone website, a picture of tube & cup is not what I had done in the past. Oops, no wonder I struggled, LOL!
It also mentions this:

If the vehicle is equipped with an ABS, connect the Vehicle Communication Module (VCM) and scan tool into the vehicle Data Link Connector (DLC) under the dash and carry out the chassis brake bleeding procedure.

Does gravity feed negate this requirement?

Is this product a gimmick, or not?
http://www.speedbleeder.com/

[fastblackmerc]

Thanks fastblackmerc for the correction of my misunderstanding about the fluid color. Regardless of the cause, it does need to be changed! Thansk for the tip about "gravitiy bleeding". The last time I changed a caliper was 20 yrs ago where my assistant would pump the brakes while I would open the fitting on the calipers one at a time. My helper didn't follow instructions well as she let off the pressure before I closed the valve. While I was concentrating on her understanding the commands, I erred by not keeping MC reservoir filled. What a headache after that experience.

From the autozone website, a picture of tube & cup is not what I had done in the past. Oops, no wonder I struggled, LOL!
It also mentions this:

If the vehicle is equipped with an ABS, connect the Vehicle Communication Module (VCM) and scan tool into the vehicle Data Link Connector (DLC) under the dash and carry out the chassis brake bleeding procedure.

Does gravity feed negate this requirement?

Is this product a gimmick, or not?
http://www.speedbleeder.com/

As long as you don't allow the MC to go dry and introduce air into the system you do not need an ABS scan tool to cycle the ABS pump.

Get a small diameter clear hose, aquarium air hose should be fine, slip it over the bleeding screw in the caliper making sure it's tight, crack the bleeding screw and drain the brake fluid into a container. When the fluid comes out clear that circuit of the system is bled / flushed. Continue on to the next wheel / circuit.

REMEMBER ----- NEVER EVER let the MC go dry!

http://www.speedbleeder.com/ isn't a gimmick. It does work but they are not necessary.

Good Youtube on how to bleed brakes using the one person method.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfTmlOZbXgs

AutoZone video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkd7iq-dIQ0

I really like this guy video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5O_pbC8R2E

When you replace the calipers the bleeder screw is always located at the top of the caliper.

[ts-pa]

Thanks again for the tips & links fastblackmerc!

As long as you don't allow the MC to go dry and introduce air into the system you don not need an ABS scan tool to cycle the ABS pump.

This was the key info I was hoping to find out about the ABS tool! Now I am confident to do the job myself, saving labor cost and not messing anything up!

I have read on other forums that gravity feed bleeding might take about two hours. Does that sound about right?

Some interesting notes I found...

How often should brake fluid be changed? (street application only, not racing)
When brake fluid turns brown, it is time to change the fluid. The brown color indicates that the fluid has absorbed water and dirt. D.O.T. #3 & #4 fluids absorb water. Silicone brake fluid is not for track racing.


You can greatly reduce bleed time/effort if you first 'bench bleed' new system components. I use a small syringe to fill new calipers while tapping them with a wrench to force air bubbles up to open hose connection...plus, when possible don't disconnect old caliper until ready to replace it, then quickly remove hose and install on new caliper to reduce fluid loss and air entrance up hose.



This raises another question, should the bleeding process be repeated after driving a little, to remove any small bubbles that might possibly still be in the system?

[fastblackmerc]

Thanks again for the tips & links fastblackmerc!

As long as you don't allow the MC to go dry and introduce air into the system you don not need an ABS scan tool to cycle the ABS pump.

This was the key info I was hoping to find out about the ABS tool! Now I am confident to do the job myself, saving labor cost and not messing anything up!

I have read on other forums that gravity feed bleeding might take about two hours. Does that sound about right?

Some interesting notes I found...

How often should brake fluid be changed? (street application only, not racing)
When brake fluid turns brown, it is time to change the fluid. The brown color indicates that the fluid has absorbed water and dirt. D.O.T. #3 & #4 fluids absorb water. Silicone brake fluid is not for track racing.


You can greatly reduce bleed time/effort if you first 'bench bleed' new system components. I use a small syringe to fill new calipers while tapping them with a wrench to force air bubbles up to open hose connection...plus, when possible don't disconnect old caliper until ready to replace it, then quickly remove hose and install on new caliper to reduce fluid loss and air entrance up hose.



This raises another question, should the bleeding process be repeated after driving a little, to remove any small bubbles that might possibly still be in the system?

If you switch to silicone based brake fluid yo have to remove ALL of the old brake fluid.

Gravity bleeding / flushing takes as much time as it takes to get fresh brake fluid coming out the bleeder screw.

I wouldn't bother bench bleeding anything except a new MC.

If you have a rock hard pedal after bleeding, no reason to re-bleed them.

[Comin' in Hot]

when you change calipers spend less than $2 bucks at autozone and get these:

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Brake-Hose-Plug/_/N-8knz5?filterByKeyWord=13888&fromString=search&isSearchByPartNumber=true

they are a lifesaver if you need to have a caliper disconnected for any length of time... I think I made one wrap with electrical tape to make an extra tight fit

[ts-pa]

I was aking about the gravity time since I wouldn't want to start then not be able to finish for whatever reason. Guess I'll start on a Sat A.M. so I have a whole day available. I will start the drip, cut the grass, check the fluid levels on each loop around the yard. LOL!

Great tips, thanks a lot guys!

[RF Overlord]

As long as you don't allow the MC to go dry and introduce air into the system you don not need an ABS scan tool to cycle the ABS pump.^If you only remember ONE thing about brakes, this is it.^



REMEMBER ----- NEVER EVER let the MC go dry!

[Mr. Man]

If you switch to silicone based brake fluid yo have to remove ALL of the old brake fluid.

Gravity bleeding / flushing takes as much time as it takes to get fresh brake fluid coming out the bleeder screw.

I wouldn't bother bench bleeding anything except a new MC.

If you have a rock hard pedal after bleeding, no reason to re-bleed them.
and he means ALL of the OEM. The two formula's DO NOT mix and will gum up.

Just use regular fluid.