Long Term Fuel Trims Disabled

[Limited360]

So I recently have been working through some hardware issues on my Trilogy car I purchased... Which seem to be sorted! I have also added a wideband for safety...


I have been monitoring my LTFT and STFT on my car.

My LTFT never change from 0, they are not learning.

The STFT is controlling to maintain 14.7 AFR...

Under WOT I see STFT going up to +45% while keeping AFR's around 11.8-12.5...


Is this common for a roots style setup? I don't understand why you would ever disable the long term adaptives...

I can provide more information and data logs, just need to get them off my tablet!

I do OBDII vehicle calibration for a living and am rather familiar with base calibration as well, just no expert to charge people...

Looking for input from other trilogy setups, especially ones tuned by LIDIO since he doesn't return emails or phone calls! *** Caught him on a good day! Called me back already!!!!***

[RR|Suki]

What do you use to data log? I'm looking for a new program. That a side I don't think it's that uncommon to turn off adaptive learning. But maybe that's just an old school way of thinking about it.

[lji372]

So I recently have been working through some hardware issues on my Trilogy car I purchased... Which seem to be sorted! I have also added a wideband for safety...

I have had 0 luck getting a hold of Lidio so I am now asking the experts on here!!!


I have been monitoring my LTFT and STFT on my car.

My LTFT never change from 0, they are not learning.

The STFT is controlling to maintain 14.7 AFR...

Under WOT I see STFT going up to +45% while keeping AFR's around 11.8-12.5...


Is this common for a roots style setup? I don't understand why you would ever disable the long term adaptives...

I can provide more information and data logs, just need to get them off my tablet!

I do OBDII vehicle calibration for a living and am rather familiar with base calibration as well, just no expert to charge people...

Looking for input from other trilogy setups, especially ones tuned by LIDIO since he doesn't return emails or phone calls!

aren't tooooners awesome:shake:

[Limited360]

aren't tooooners awesome:shake:


I am pretty sure tuners hate me as I know enough to be dangerous...

[Limited360]

What do you use to data log? I'm looking for a new program. That a side I don't think it's that uncommon to turn off adaptive learning. But maybe that's just an old school way of thinking about it.


For general driving data logs I use Torque Pro with extended FORD PID's over an OBDLink MX...

I would use my SCT with the wideband wired in somehow to log if a tuner required. I do have the racer pack from SCT...

I would assume adaptive learning at WOT would be turned off and no LTFT would go in then, however under general drive in a closed loop operation I would expect the Fuel Trims to adapt...

That being said the DS O2's are removed as I have no catalyst, to my knowledge however long term adaption does not take into account any feedback from the down stream sensors... I may be wrong and this could be the root cause however.

I also may have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the base tune is setup for this engine build... Honestly was going to pay Lidio for dyno time so he could check it and explain some of it to me along the way!


I am reviewing the 2003 MY OBD SYSTEM OPERATION document to see what I can learn on fuel adaption specific to our systems...

[Blown3.8]

I see no reason why adaptive should be turned off under part throttle conditions. But its usually a good idea to turn them off for WOT. And you don't lose adaptive at part throttle if you turn it off for WOT.

Is it the stock trilogy tune or was it a dyno tune? Maybe the tuner forgot to turn adaptive back on.

[Limited360]

My largest concern with this.... If the Long Term Fuel Trim is not functioning I can not set a P0171, P0172 or P0174, P0175... This is a concern!

Shocked the car was driven without a wideband with this situation!

[Blown3.8]

Yeah the rear O2's shouldn't have anything to do with the adaptive problem you have.

Did you change the thermostat? Maybe the coolant temp is not sufficient to go into adaptive?

[Limited360]

I see no reason why adaptive should be turned off under part throttle conditions. But its usually a good idea to turn them off for WOT. And you don't lose adaptive at part throttle if you turn it off for WOT.

Is it the stock trilogy tune or was it a dyno tune? Maybe the tuner forgot to turn adaptive back on.


dyno tune... its much past a stock trilogy... see signature.

[Limited360]

Yeah the rear O2's shouldn't have anything to do with the adaptive problem you have.

Did you change the thermostat? Maybe the coolant temp is not sufficient to go into adaptive?


Was wondering that, verified Gauge and ECU reading 190F+

[Blown3.8]

Do you have the PRP for this vehicle? Build a tune for it.:)

[Limited360]

Do you have the PRP for this vehicle? Build a tune for it.:)


I have the pro racer pack from another vehicle however I should be able to do two more vehicles as I only ever used one VIN with it....

However I have since lost my dongle and need to request / purchase another from SCT... This is a process I was told and need to get on it!!!

I really want to get in touch with Lidio and just go through what he did tune / hardware wise since he did the full build along with the tune! I am willing to pay for his time when its just talking even to get the background info! Just left another voicemail with him today, cross my fingers. Maybe I will run out and just see if they are in on Monday as I am local (45 min away).

[Blown3.8]

Yeah definatly easiest to get his tune with it turned back on if that was overlooked. Good luck.

[Limited360]

Yeah definatly easiest to get his tune with it turned back on if that was overlooked. Good luck.


Thanks!!! Sounds like I will be taking a drive over to the shop on Monday to see whats up!

[martyo]

It is not uncommon for adaptive learning to be turned off during the tuning process so that the tuner is not fighting the adaptive learning. Then, at the end of the tuning process, it is usually turned back on. However, in a really aggressive set up, adaptive learning may be left off all together.

If you want to speak to Jeff at my shop to get some help, let me know and I will arrange a call.

[Limited360]

It is not uncommon for adaptive learning to be turned off during the tuning process so that the tuner is not fighting the adaptive learning. Then, at the end of the tuning process, it is usually turned back on. However, in a really aggressive set up, adaptive learning may be left off all together.

If you want to speak to Jeff at my shop to get some help, let me know and I will arrange a call.


Marty I appreciate the feedback! I had a feeling that was typical to turn it off... I may take you up on the chat with Jeff if I am still unhappy after I go on the dyno up here!


Lidio just called me back and explained to me why he has it shut off on a non stock trilogy tune, made me feel all warm and fuzzy!

Going in on September 23rd for a verification run! Was nice to chat with him as we went into depth on some of the operations of the STFT as well that I was seeing!

WOOT WOOT! I am happy now!

:banana2:

[martyo]

Marty I appreciate the feedback! I had a feeling that was typical to turn it off... I may take you up on the chat with Jeff if I am still unhappy after I go on the dyno up here!


Lidio just called me back and explained to me why he has it shut off on a non stock trilogy tune, made me feel all warm and fuzzy!

Going in on September 23rd for a verification run! Was nice to chat with him as we went into depth on some of the operations of the STFT as well that I was seeing!

WOOT WOOT! I am happy now!

:banana2:

It is good to feel warm and fuzzy. It beats wet and slimey!

[Limited360]

It is good to feel warm and fuzzy. It beats wet and slimey!

Or dirty and greasy!!

[lji372]

It is good to feel warm and fuzzy. It beats wet and slimey!

I thought warm and fuzzy was just a step before wet and slimey:D

[Limited360]

I thought warm and fuzzy was just a step before wet and slimey:D

Valid point.. I will have to go with you on this one!