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Constable
03-25-2004, 02:38 PM
I just got back from my dealership... what a pleasurable experience it was!

For those who don't know, I've had a valve tap since the car was 2 weeks old. Steve (TripleTransAm) had the exact problem in his MM. It was a distinct valvetrain noise (NOT the fuel injector tick) that was most audible from the driver side wheel well. The noise grew louder and I took it in for service when my car was still bone stock. They told me it was the injectors.

Over the next few months, the noise grew louder and louder. It is now audible from about 30 feet away in all directions. It's bad. It's only noticeable at idle, though... nowhere else in the RPM range. It does it whether it's cold or hot.

I finally worked up the guts to speak with my service manager about it today. I walked in armed with a legal pad full of part numbers, service bulletins, and testimonials from some of MercuryMarauder.Net's own members.

I first told him about every mod I've done to the car, who performed the work, and what gains I got from them. I then began to brief him on my current problem. He stopped me and said, "Before you go on, don't worry about the things you've done to your car. I'm not concerned about that. I'm concerned with fixing your problem the FIRST time." FANTASTIC!! That took a big load off my mind.

I told him the history of the motor and how the Cobras have seen this problem for some time. I also gave him the reasons why the problem exists (poor cooling in head). In the end, he called in my favorite technician and spoke with him for a bit. The tech backed me up on everything I had said. The Service Manager then got on "The Hotline" and spoke with a Ford rep for about 20 minutes... the whole time, he was defending me and almost arguing with the rep. They then engaged in a 3-way conversation with a Romeo plant rep who stated that they know about the problem. They haven't done anything because it's not common enough to put out a TSB or Special Service Message.

The Service Manager hung up and told the tech to order a new head and valves. The head # is 2C5Z-6049-EA. It's an updated production version of the original head. It seems that, after the Cobra problem was found, Ford updated all their 4.6 DOHC left side heads to new part numbers. The guys seem to think that they're either using new material for the valve guides or that they've improved coolant flow. The head # that's listed in the Cobra recall (3R2Z-6049-GA) is no longer valid and has since been replaced by the above listed number.

So my car goes into the shop on 4-6-04 to be torn apart and reassembled. No more tap!!! Yippeeee!!!

Special Thanks goes to Steve for the documentation that he did on his problem.

Vehicle info: '03 MM, 5-28-03 build, 13,700 miles, Noise has been there since new.

Fourth Horseman
03-25-2004, 02:41 PM
Wow, nice that your dealership service folks went to bat for you like that. Not sure mine would. In any event, I have the same idle noise that you describe. Mine hasn't become any worse over time, but I only have about 12,000 miles on the car. At what milage did you notice yours growing worse?

Please keep us posted on how the work goes and your results when it's all done.

TripleTransAm
03-25-2004, 02:56 PM
DAMN! That is good news. Glad I could help...

jgc61sr2002
03-25-2004, 03:12 PM
Info like this is why the site rocks. :rock: Keep us posted. Thanks. :up:

sailsmen
03-25-2004, 03:15 PM
It's nice to hear a dealer step up for the customer and Ford to honor their product.

CRUZTAKER
03-25-2004, 04:31 PM
I have some of those docs prepared, but maybe Steve could email me some additional ammo as well....ohhh Steve?

TripleTransAm
03-26-2004, 08:25 AM
What do you folks need to know?

The description of the problem seems fairly easy to note... if you can hear the ticking at idle from 4-5 feet away from the car, you've got a problem. A stethoscope will narrow the problem down to the region of the driver's side head, and might actually sound like it's coming from insidethe block.

Make a note on whether the car smokes at startup, after a few hours rest if not after an entire night off. Removal of spark plugs will show some increased wear in the 7/8 region. A sharp technician might even spot signs of localized overheating on these plugs. Depending on the severity of the problem, you might actually see some oil fouling on these plugs as well.

Removal of the head will show clear evidence of cylinder 7 (maybe 8 too) in distress. The metal will looked a combination of rust-coloured and dark, again depending on the oil consumption. Also depending on the oil consumption will be a visible pattern of oil consumption on the piston tops, not one consistent with ring problems but rather very clearly showing how the oil is being fed from the valves. I will post a photo later on.

With the head off the car, removal of the camshafts and valve springs on the suspected cylinders will show excessive side-to-side movement of the valves within their guides, especially those on the exhaust side. Actually, come to think of it, simple removal of the camshafts and cylinder 7 valve springs might actually allow you to rock the valve back and forth sufficiently to convince the service people of the problem, but nothing beats having the head off the car to show off that nice overheating pattern and physically grab the head of the valve, rocking it back and forth.

Also, with valve completely removed, you can see evidence of scoring on the surfaces of the valve stems... in some extreme cases, some deep scratches may be noticeable as well. Another benefit of valve removal is that you can then see the excessive amount of burnt oil on the backside of the valve... sometimes so extreme it may accumulate enough to cause improper valve seating, or perhaps even accelerated seat wear. If your guides are sufficiently worn, that in itself may be enough to cause the valve to seat improperly, causing a momentary slight loss in compression during that stroke, and possibly aggravating the guide problem.

An interesting argument used by dealers is to fire up a brand new single-digit mileage unit and prove that they 'do that when new'. The very interesting thing about my own dealership is that the same thing was said to me, but rather from the angle that "hmm, even the new ones have that problem from the factory". :up:

And speaking of my dealership, I spoke to them before sending their information to Ryan in the hopes that this might aid his case. They were okay with being contacted by Ryan's service people, in case some support was required. While it seems he's himself struck gold with his dealership service dude (I don't know if he had to go as far as contacting my dealer for collaboration), I'll post the info for all in case any of you run into some type of dealer reluctance to fully identify the problem.

The dealership is Terrebonne Ford (pronounced Tair-bohn).
The number is 450-968-9000. There are several top notch guys behind the service desk, but the guy I spoke to personally a few days back is Roland Rodrigue. While the front desk will most likely answer the phone in french, I am sure they can serve you in english if you make the effort to speak as clear as possible. Roland himself is bilingual.

The phenomenal technician that really dug through all the BS in this ordeal is Eric Aumais.

If anyone does want to use Terrebonne's help, it would probably be best to have your dealership personnel contact Terrebonne directly, rather than calling them yourselves. Not only would it be annoying to the busy folks at Terrebonne, it would be totally useless... talking with them first and then heading to your dealership with the info would be absolutely a waste of time, and no different than going to your dealership with "I heard on the 'net that..." types of arguments.

I'm sure that if you have a tech speaking directly to a tech (and then hopefully speaking directly to a plant rep), the results will be far more productive.


Some dealers used to actually receive the recommendation to replace the head with the same part number, and reuse all existing valvetrain components (except with new valves) after having the whole mess machined at a machine shop. My tech fought against this recommendation and with good reason: I'd rather have a fully assembled factory-machined assembly than anything else.

Hope this covers it all... any specific questions? I'm sure Ryan can also provide some valuable details from his successful visit.

BillyGman
03-26-2004, 08:36 AM
Ryan and Steve, Good info guys. Thanks. And congrats Ryan on your success!! It's good to hear about it when dealers actually cooperate.

Fourth Horseman
03-26-2004, 09:26 AM
So it's the driver's side head? For some reason I thought I'd read previously that it was the passenger side head. I'll pull some plugs soon and see if I can see any fouling or any other problems. I have not seen any smoke at startup so far, so I don't think it's too bad on my car. At least not yet.

Dr Caleb
03-26-2004, 12:06 PM
I've recently noticed smoke on startup. Just turned over 12,800 km.

I think my build date is close to Steve's.

TripleTransAm
03-26-2004, 12:09 PM
I might have actually videotaped a smoky startup at one point... 2003 was such a blur for me, I'll have a look through all my videotaped stuff this weekend.

Dr Caleb
03-26-2004, 12:15 PM
2003 was such a blur for me,

(He's slept since then :) )

Bigdogjim
03-26-2004, 12:43 PM
Hey Ryan: I vote your dealer as "dealer of the year"!!!!!!!!!!!

Great job.

I would buy them a box of donuts! (KK's)

Ross
03-26-2004, 03:16 PM
This is terrible! He accomplished all of that without using a lawyer! :depress:

Constable
03-27-2004, 12:24 AM
Yes, my dealer is fantastic (the service department, anyway). My tech has almost every SVT cert possible... and he's only 26. He's awesome. The rest of the dealership leaves a bit to be desired.

One thing I forgot: Ford told the service manager that there were some things to try before ordering a new head.

1 - Loosen valve cover bolts by one-half turn. He said that they have seen valve covers that give very little clearance and end up making contact with valvetrain components.

2 - Slightly loosen the "Ladders" which bolt over the cams. Apparently these may contact other valvetrain components as well.

3 - As a last resort to fix the tap, replace the head and the possibly worn valves.

My service manager hung up the phone and said, "F--K him... I'm not wasting my time with that *****. Order a new head, exhaust valves, and whatever else you think it might need..."

TripleTransAm
03-27-2004, 06:48 AM
I'm peeing my pants here, that is awesome. Your tech sounds like my favorite tech... although mine is closer to 40 but LOOKS younger than 26! Hang on to this dealership, Ryan... throw them as many bones as you can, because they REALLY deserve kudos for how they operate!

Seriously, take the time to contact regional reps and such, go as high up as you can. Customer feedback like this goes a LONG way to making things nicer for dealerships in their relationship with the manufacturer, and dealerships REALLY appreciate it.

And it's a vicious circle too. Nowadays, if my Marauder has to stay overnight at the shop, they will actually drive me home... that's a 45 minute drive, at least!!! And then they'll come pick me up when it's ready! I think they'll be relieved once I move to my new place in July... only 10-20 minutes away from the dealership! :lol:

1 BAD 03 MM
03-28-2004, 01:18 AM
Constable,

Glad to hear YOU got some "service". I printed out your post from Thursday afternoon, my appointment was for Friday morning. I tried to show them the information, (Especially the part about "I just got back from my dealership... what a pleasurable experience that was!") and they did not want to look at it

Harnish Lincoln Mercury in Puyallup, Wa. just screwed me. :down: The SM and the head technician came out and listened. Pulled two 04's off the lot to compare. Mysteriously I was the only one who could here the ticking on my car. They are insane, and have fully pissed me off. (I hope they read this)

:fire: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :fire:

I sent a complaint to Mercury's (Customer Relationship Center), here it is verbatim:

"I have had a ticking noise on my 03 Marauder, that my service manager, and service technician seem to believe is normal. Even though other Marauders on the lot don't make the "ticking" noise on the Driver side cylinder head. (Bad coolant flow in 7-8 cylinders, overheats valves, valves don't seat properly, engine ticks.) The new Marauders have a new Driver side cylinder head casting, ummmm, I wonder why. I have done an extensive amount of research on this problem (which I know IS a problem) and they won't even look at the information with me. I get treated like oh no here he comes again. I have not been happy with the service (lack of) that I have recieved at Harnish Lincoln Mercury, in Puyallup, on this issue. PLEASE help me out on this one.

Side note, I'm taking the car to Lincoln Mercury of Olympia, on the advice of a fellow Marauder owner, we'll see how that pans out.

Thanks for listening."

I hope it all works out for me. I told my salesman (who honestly made an effort) that if they fix my car down in Olympia, that I will be talking with the General Manager, and owner at Harnish to figure out what the problem was. (Technician with his head his head up his A$$, I think he finally heard the tick but had already commited to his boss that it was normal noise, and didn't want to look like an idiot. IMHO) While also keeping Mercury abreast of the "service" that I received there.

Sorry to vent, later
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Silver_04
03-28-2004, 08:53 AM
Back off the valve covers and ladders because they might make contact? So is the Ford rep admitting that Ford doesn't do tolerance stackups of its engine components or they have no clue what to torque fasteners to?

saphireplatinum
03-30-2004, 06:17 AM
smokey starts I got 'em with only 300 miles on the engine..... they diagnosed but didn't repair it as a fuel injector problem.


I took photos of the smoke and it was so sad....... you almost would think I was laying a patch if the license plate were a little blurred but alas no. Just a whole bunch of burnt oil spewing out the rear.

Any suggestions? I haven't sold my Crown Vic yet because I don't trust she won't take a crap on me when I'm traversing Canada for work.

Ross
03-30-2004, 08:01 AM
Smokey starts? Don't overlook the obvious. I took my car to the dealer for an oil change, and they way overfilled the engine with oil. Looked like a war zone when I cranked the engine. Took it right back and they drained some out. That was a long time ago, and it hasn't happened since. This probably isn't the source of your problem, but it helps to rule out all of the easy fixes that we might overlook. Good luck.

TripleTransAm
03-30-2004, 09:02 AM
Injectors have nothing to do with oil, by the way. So, if it truly is oil out the back, there are greater problems to deal with. A bad injector would probably result in a black puffy exhaust, and the PCM would probably throw a code due to the wild mixture it was reading. Another possibility is a bad spark plug, happened to a co-worker's new Mazda 3 last week as they were coming home from the dealer... the car just began smoke-screening the entire highway and ran pretty rough.

schuvwj
03-30-2004, 05:59 PM
I was talking to a Technician at my local F/M Dealer last week and he informed me that they are seeing a lot of spark plug coil failures on 4.6L engines in cylinders 4 and 8 due to excessive heat. Maybe your smoking problem is related to the coils.

Does anyone make a high performance/high heat resistant coil?

TripleTransAm
03-30-2004, 06:30 PM
Very interesting info, Bill!

1 BAD 03 MM
03-30-2004, 06:42 PM
Yea............

I took my car to another dealer in the area this morning on teamropes advice, and legwork. Technician listened, heard the tick, called Ford, new cylinder head to be installed.

Thank You teamrope.:bows: :bows: :bows:

Constable,
I asked them to call me with the part# Ford was going to send, and it was the same except for the last two digits (2C5Z-6049-HA). I'm assuming this # is a couple of revisions newer. Anyone know what the difference is? Have they already ordered your head?

I'm glad to see Ford is making an effort, all beit a silent one. It's obviously an issue, and takes a little coaxing to get fixed, and I am especially glad to see that there are service departments out there where service MEANS service.

I'm ecstatic.........:banana2:

Oh yeah, I can't forget to thank TTA, and Constable for their efforts on this also. This board has definetly mad all our lives easier. I'm glad to be among friends

teamrope
03-30-2004, 09:05 PM
I'm only to happy to help out a fellow Maraudereer. :D

I still give MY thanks to the team at Olympia L/M & Mazda. They have had my car in for the moisture in the headlights, a bad cd changer, the odometer ( that stopped counting at 5666 miles :D )and the seal around the L/S rear door window. They have been great every time.

There is no other car in the price range that I would still be happy with after having so many little problems, and a large part of that is due to the service I get there. :up: :up:

Constable
03-30-2004, 11:05 PM
I'm glad to help... nice to hear that you got what you need. I am wondering what the EXACT differences are between the GA and HA head castings, though. I know it's an update, but what has been updated??? Coolant flow? Different materials used for valve guides? Someone shed some light on this please.

vegasmarauder
03-31-2004, 03:00 AM
Well, I have been living in denial for about 10,000 of the the 12,000 miles the car has on it. I have the tick in the 300B (Dec 02 build). The 300A built 6/02 with 25,000 miles on it is extremely quiet, no tick, no smoke. Now getting the blue smoke on start up (sigh). Guess I will have to take both cars down to the dealer so they can hear the difference. That's what I get for not allowing the 300B to play when its raining outside.....

What I am wondering is do I take it to a Ford SVT dealer to get it fixed, or can a regular Lincoln/Mercury dealer do it? I would think the SVT dealer would have more experience with fixing the 4 valve engine, and since this is a problem the Cobra's have they should have seen it a more times.

So those of you who have had yours fixed, was it an SVT or (non SVT) L/M dealer?

PM me if you don't want to make this a lengthy post, but I think others would be interested.

Thanks... .

1 BAD 03 MM
03-31-2004, 01:59 PM
I'm only to happy to help out a fellow Maraudereer. :D

I still give MY thanks to the team at Olympia L/M & Mazda. There is no other car in the price range that I would still be happy with after having so many little problems, and a large part of that is due to the service I get there. :up: :up:
I agree 110%. Lincoln Mercury Mazda of Olympia :up: will get all my service from now on. (I mistakenly forgot to mention their name.)

Seems my signature holds true.

Constable
03-31-2004, 02:52 PM
Vegas - My dealer is not an SVT dealer... just a normal Lincoln-Mercury dealer. My technician, on the other hand, has just about every SVT cert under the sun. He is the ONLY tech they allow to rip open Marauders, Aviators, and Navigators (all DOHC mod motors).

MERCMAN
04-01-2004, 09:23 AM
Well, they ordered my new head today(for the car :lol: ) tapping was not resolved with re-torquing the cam head bolts. S/M called L/M they said no problem, replace it!! Is there a break-in period needed for the valves? Has anyone found out anything about these new heads? Better coolant flow through them?

vegasmarauder
04-01-2004, 09:27 PM
I dropped the car off today at a Ford dealer that my friend works at for an oil change and to have the gas tank shield kit for the Police Interceptors installed (piece of mind only) since I almost got rear ended hard the other night on the freeway. The service advisor (my friend's friend) at the Ford dealer was very familiar with the head problem. He listened to it and said to give it a little longer to get louder and then it shouldn't be a problem to get it done. I checked with my parts guy and he said that the "HA" head shows not available (except emergency orders) until after 4/1/04. I will drive it hard for a while longer and then take it back.

hitchhiker
04-01-2004, 09:47 PM
I dropped the car off today at a Ford dealer that my friend works at for an oil change and to have the gas tank shield kit for the Police Interceptors installed (piece of mind only) since I almost got rear ended hard the other night on the freeway. The service advisor (my friend's friend) at the Ford dealer was very familiar with the head problem. He listened to it and said to give it a little longer to get louder and then it shouldn't be a problem to get it done. I checked with my parts guy and he said that the "HA" head shows not available (except emergency orders) until after 4/1/04. I will drive it hard for a while longer and then take it back.

Has this gas tank shield already been included in the 2004 mm's?

Thanks,

David

1 BAD 03 MM
04-02-2004, 09:16 AM
Once they replace the cylinder head, I have decided to add the Kook's long tube ceramic coated headers, and the kit that Dennis has that taps into the freeze plugs in the back of the heads to improve coolant flow. Cast iron heat soaks back into the aluminum head, which already has a coolant problem anyway, so the ceramic coated steel should remove ALOT of heat from the heads. Of course the headers won't hurt performance either, but it sure helped make case with the significant other.

Looks like Ford is stepping up to the plate for us now. I'm glad, since I'm a died in the wool Ford fanatic.

Constable
04-02-2004, 09:36 AM
Cast iron heat soaks back into the aluminum head

What's cast iron?? Our blocks and heads are aluminum. The Kooks headers are either mild steel with aluminum coating or stainless steel. Whichever header you choose, they'll both actually help the cooling problem by improving exhaust gas flow and getting the heat away from the head quicker. I'm debating on the Head Cooling Kit right now. The car will go to DR in early May for multiple upgrades. I'm not sure if I should do it "just in case", or hold out and see how this new head fares.

1 BAD 03 MM
04-02-2004, 01:01 PM
What's cast iron??
The stock exhaust manifolds.

vegasmarauder
04-03-2004, 05:34 AM
Hitchhiker,

No it isn't a standard part. It was made for the Crown Vic police Cars but will fit any Panther Ford. I debated it, but after seeing a Navigator barreling down on me at 70 MPH and then go into an ABS skid when traffic stopped on the freeway at 2AM for construction, I wished I would have done it sooner.

Here's the part number if you want it. 3W7Z-9B007-AA. I think it should be around $75.00-100.00 (plus installation about another $50.00). I got a deal on it because my friend works in the parts department and we get our police fleet serviced at their dealership. Its really just a few plastic parts that go over the rear axle and cover and a few other small changes to the tank attaching parts. The stock set-up is not unsafe, I just thought of this as extra protection as I have been rear-ended 3 other times in other cars.

Constable
04-07-2004, 10:07 PM
Sooo, my MM has been sitting in 10,000 pieces (to quote Steve, "4.6 liters of engine parts") at Irwin Lincoln since Tuesday morning. They're waiting on valve stem seals to arrive prior to assembling the new head. I've been snapping pictures here and there... will post at a later date.

Two of my Denso's are destroyed. The electrodes are non-existent... the rest of the plugs look like they've been napalmed. I called Dennis and he was gracious enough to replace them for free and overnight them to me. I had to decline, though.

Instead, I went to my Ford dealer to order the AWSFA-12-C plugs. Turns out, no dealer or warehouse in the northeast had them. They attempted to order them direct from Ford, but they seem to only come in batches of 96!!! I finally located a full set of NGK TR6's, which are a direct replacement for the Motorcraft plugs mentioned above (heat range 12, tapered seat, etc...)

I also spent the day painting my valve covers. Figured it'd be a good way to waste time while the engine's apart. I attempted to get them powdercoated, but the coater screwed me around a bunch. Due to the fact that I was pressed for time, I ended up stripping the covers of their black epoxy coating, priming w/ two coats of high temp paint, and then laying six coats of gloss red brake caliper paint on them (rated to 900 degrees). They turned out great... very nice.

Should ahve the car back by Friday afternoon... can't wait.

junehhan
04-07-2004, 10:14 PM
Hitchhiker,

No it isn't a standard part. It was made for the Crown Vic police Cars but will fit any Panther Ford. I debated it, but after seeing a Navigator barreling down on me at 70 MPH and then go into an ABS skid when traffic stopped on the freeway at 2AM for construction, I wished I would have done it sooner.

Here's the part number if you want it. 3W7Z-9B007-AA. I think it should be around $75.00-100.00 (plus installation about another $50.00). I got a deal on it because my friend works in the parts department and we get our police fleet serviced at their dealership. Its really just a few plastic parts that go over the rear axle and cover and a few other small changes to the tank attaching parts. The stock set-up is not unsafe, I just thought of this as extra protection as I have been rear-ended 3 other times in other cars.

That part number may come in handy since i've been debating the fuel tank shield as well. Particularly during the morning rush hour, i've been nearly rearended a few times by a minivan, and a couple of Suburban momma's and it may be extra insurance since those Suburban momma's complete with their SUV, Latte, cell phone, makeup, and hairbrush can weigh upto 3-3.5 tons. Out of curiosity, how much extra weight does the fuel tank shield add to the car?

BillyGman
04-07-2004, 11:51 PM
Constable, You wanted 12C plugs? I didn't know that they even go that cold. That's a big jump down in heat range from the stock #32 plugs. Are you sure that the #12's aren't too cold? It's my understanding that IF after awhile you notice a lot of sooty carbon deposites on the plugs, then they're too cold. So if you're going w/such a cold plug, you might want to keep an eye on that. Especially if you begin to experience drivability issues.

I don't believe that colder is always neccessarily better.

vegasmarauder
04-08-2004, 12:37 AM
The sheild weighs no more than 5 lbs. Its some plastic and rubber parts and instructions to trim a mounting bracket. The 2003 kit has less stuff than the older versions because I think they incorporated some of the revisions into all the production models..

MERCMAN
04-08-2004, 03:54 AM
Why are they not just replacing the entire head instead of re-building?

Constable
04-08-2004, 11:44 AM
Billy: the AWSFA-12-C plugs are what Dennis reccomended as a Denso substitute. Due tot he fact that I couldn't get my hands on them, I bought the NGK equivalent.

MercMan: We're going to see how extensive the damage is. Either way, the problem is going to be fixed. There'll be a new head replaced valves, etc...

TAF
04-08-2004, 04:03 PM
Constable, You wanted 12C plugs? I didn't know that they even go that cold. That's a big jump down in heat range from the stock #32 plugs. Are you sure that the #12's aren't too cold? It's my understanding that IF after awhile you notice a lot of sooty carbon deposites on the plugs, then they're too cold. So if you're going w/such a cold plug, you might want to keep an eye on that. Especially if you begin to experience drivability issues.

I don't believe that colder is always neccessarily better.
I run the Motorcraft 12C copper plugs, Billy. They make my car run SWEET with the tune/chip and 'stat. :up:

Constable
04-08-2004, 04:57 PM
While I was at the garage today, I got the skinny on the damage.

The tap was coming mainly from #8 (closest to the firewall on driver's side) but had also started to get pretty bad on #6 (second from front on driver's side). The #8 exhaust valves could be shaken back and forth by hand; the #6 valves could be jiggled a bit.

I hung around for a few minutes to snap pics and what not. Then it was off to JDM Engineering to grab a 9" K&N cone and an Accufab 80mm MAF adapter for it. Tomorrow morning while the car's being put back together, my tech is throwing on my Autometer senders for me (might as well thread 'em in while the oil's out of it). They're for the "real" pressure guage and an oil temp guage.

More to come tomorrow.

1 BAD 03 MM
04-08-2004, 05:40 PM
Got my car back at 12:00 today. New cylinder head installed, passenger side cam journals re-torqued. All in 12 hours of shop time. They did ship and install the (-GA) head, not the (-HA) head.

Lincoln Mercury Mazda of Olympia kicks a$$. :bows: :bows:

MERCMAN
04-08-2004, 06:06 PM
Got my car back at 12:00 today. New cylinder head installed, passenger side cam journals re-torqued. All in 12 hours of shop time. They did ship and install the (-GA) head, not the (-HA) head.

Lincoln Mercury Mazda of Olympia kicks a$$. :bows: :bows:

Congrats!!:up:

I pick mine up tomorrow as well, new head, new guages(functional), also had them install a new gasket around the driver's door, seems it was not doing the job of keeping the wind noise out. Will post on the new drivability of the new head!!!

BillyGman
04-08-2004, 11:17 PM
I run the Motorcraft 12C copper plugs, Billy. They make my car run SWEET with the tune/chip and 'stat. :up:

Todd, can it be that what you were telling me about the other day can have something to do w/these very cold plugs you're using?? I'm not sure what the whole story was, but have you had anyone take one of those plugs out to look at them? If not, I'd check that first if I were you.If they're really black w/sooty deposits, that's it.

It pays to start w/the easy stuff. I've learned that the hard way so many times w/cars.

TAF
04-09-2004, 06:20 AM
Todd, can it be that what you were telling me about the other day can have something to do w/these very cold plugs you're using?? I'm not sure what the whole story was, but have you had anyone take one of those plugs out to look at them? If not, I'd check that first if I were you.If they're really black w/sooty deposits, that's it.

It pays to start w/the easy stuff. I've learned that the hard way so many times w/cars.Nope...it's not the plugs. We just threw some new ones in, inspected the old ones (they had 24K miles on them) and they were still in good shape and could have been left in, but for the price of 8 new ones ($16) I said "what the hey".

For those of you wondering...Billy and I were discussing on the phone that I've developed a "cold start hesitation". Meaning...when the car sits for 48 hours or longer and I start it...it runs rough for a while. We thought these symptoms were the plugs...but new plugs still create the same rough idle when started. It's not the chip, 'cause it does it whether the chip is in or out. We are now looking at the fuel system (filter and delivery). But, we weren't able to get to it the other day due to other priorities at Team Ford (I made sure they took care of your electrical concerns first, Bob :up: )

So...we're going to hopefully hook it up for a full diagnostic check sometime next week. She runs great once warmed and only does as described above from a cold start. It's as if some air is getting into the fuel system somewhere.

I still highly recommend the colder plugs and as I said before, they are not the 'cause of my current issue.

BillyGman
04-09-2004, 06:22 AM
Okay Todd, thanks for your reply. :)

MERCMAN
04-09-2004, 01:24 PM
The new head was installed today, damn ticking was still there. Upon further investigation, the wrench loosened the valve covers and VOILA!! the tapping was gone. New set of valve covers have been ordered. For those of you that have a tapping, try loosening up the valve cover on the offending side and see if that quiets it down. As for me, it was a win-win. Got a new head, also have new valve covers. Of course i was without the beast for a while and that was the worst part of the whole ordeal. BTW the service hot-line were the ones who recommended the head replacement. File this under things to check!!!

TAF
04-09-2004, 01:39 PM
The new head was installed today, damn ticking was still there. Upon further investigation, the wrench loosened the valve covers and VOILA!! the tapping was gone. New set of valve covers have been ordered. For those of you that have a tapping, try loosening up the valve cover on the offending side and see if that quiets it down. As for me, it was a win-win. Got a new head, also have new valve covers. Of course i was without the beast for a while and that was the worst part of the whole ordeal. BTW the service hot-line were the ones who recommended the head replacement. File this under things to check!!!
Sounds like a great time to have your valve covers polished/powdercoated, etc.:up:

MERCMAN
04-09-2004, 04:05 PM
Sounds like a great time to have your valve covers polished/powdercoated, etc.:up:
I am hoping that they send new coil covers as well! A side note, L/M said the new valve covers are "taller" by a few mm that the OEM's, to compensate for the size difference in the new head. Interesting development eh?? :depress:

TAF
04-09-2004, 05:18 PM
I am hoping that they send new coil covers as well! A side note, L/M said the new valve covers are "taller" by a few mm that the OEM's, to compensate for the size difference in the new head. Interesting development eh?? :depress:Uh....be careful with "taller"....they are a :censor: to get back on as they are. Taller? Could be a :censor::censor::censor: :censor: to get on.

Constable
04-09-2004, 09:51 PM
^^ Absolutely ^^

Those valve covers are a pain. But now I'm wondering...

Wes sent me a set of powdercoated valve covers, but the passenger side cover had different fittings than mine did. I sent them back and re-finished my stock covers instead. Do the new covers that you're getting have the PCV fitting in a different location? Also, I believe the 04's are a push on typ instead of our 03's, which are bolt on types.

MERCMAN
04-09-2004, 10:00 PM
Uh....be careful with "taller"....they are a :censor: to get back on as they are. Taller? Could be a :censor::censor::censor: :censor: to get on.
\With my warranty thats the dealers problem, :up:

junehhan
04-09-2004, 10:40 PM
I am hoping that they send new coil covers as well! A side note, L/M said the new valve covers are "taller" by a few mm that the OEM's, to compensate for the size difference in the new head. Interesting development eh?? :depress:


What size difference in the new head???

MERCMAN
04-10-2004, 06:15 AM
What size difference in the new head???

I wish I could answer that question! Obviously the latest version of this head has some difference than the old one. Since it is probably measured with a micrometer, there is no way for me to know. All I know is that my tech called L/M about the rockers hitting the cover and the told him to order the "new" valve covers for it. I will get the part number on Monday and post it

junehhan
04-10-2004, 06:30 PM
That's actually pretty interesting to know. What kind of tapping noise did it make? Was the noise of the same intensity, or a bit quieter?

Constable
04-12-2004, 08:37 AM
ARG!!! I just test drove my car. The engine is running tip-top with no unusual noises what-so-ever. The problem is this: while I'm coming to a stop and while I am at a full stop, the entire car vibrates and shakes. It's nothing violent, just a steady vibration throughout the car. The engine continues to run smooth, but the revs drop to about 500 rpm. Any ideas folks? My tech comes in tomorrow... should be rectified then.

MERCMAN
04-12-2004, 05:02 PM
JEEEZE!! my new valve cover arrived today,,IT IS UNPOLISHED ALUMINUM!! SO now they have to order one for the opposite side so they match. Well, off to the powdercoater they go. I swear, this car and mods are driving me to the poorhouse,, but at least I will arrive in style!!

Constable
04-17-2004, 09:27 AM
WAHOO!! Car's finished!!

The shake turned out to be caused by a skewed cam gear. The intake cam on the driver side was ONE TOOTH off. Tech pulled the front of the motor apart again and wrapped everything up. Now runs AWESOME with NO valve tap.

The NGK TR6's seem to be working out great.

I also installed the mandrel bent x-pipe supplied by Kooks with the new cats. I added Flowmaster 40's to the mix. They really quieted down the car from the SLP glasspacks. I'm tellin you, though, those SLP's are the baddest mufflers on the planet. They sounded AMAZING. Just too loud for me.

Next up on the list of goodies: Bulletproofed tranny, lots of DR mods, a Superchips Tuner, and a full DR dynotune. All I have to do is survive the drive to Florida... ugh.

TripleTransAm
04-17-2004, 11:37 AM
:cry: I love happy endings.... *sniff*

junehhan
04-17-2004, 07:20 PM
That's great! I love happy endings too! Out of curiosity, do you have any sound clips of your car?

TripleTransAm
04-17-2004, 08:18 PM
Mine or Ryan's? This afternoon I heard what I fear is the return of the ticking... same head, same location. I have the first 'revision' of the head, Ryan appears to have the latest. Now the challenge is to wrestle the info out of Ford as to what changed between revisions of the head...

junehhan
04-17-2004, 08:21 PM
I wasn't clear, but I was curious whether Ryan had any sound clips of his exhaust. If you hear what appears to be the return of the ticking, that royally sucks Steve. I personally would like to know why some cars exhibit this issue, and others don't. If it get's worse, I would like to hear what it sounds like to compare to my noise. I am not completely sure that I have the ticking since while it makes a tap-tap-tap noise, it isn't blowing any blue smoke, or consuming any oil.

MERCMAN
04-17-2004, 10:43 PM
Mine or Ryan's? This afternoon I heard what I fear is the return of the ticking... same head, same location. I have the first 'revision' of the head, Ryan appears to have the latest. Now the challenge is to wrestle the info out of Ford as to what changed between revisions of the head...

Do yourself a favor, try loosening up the valve cover bolts beginning at the one nearest the firewall. After installation of my new head and valve covers, the ticking became evident after the engine was warmed to to operating temp. The covers are supposed to be torqued ti 30lb/ft this is too much. get a stethoscope and place it on the cover and loosen the bolt one turn at a time and see if the tapping dissipates.

Just a voice crying out from the wilderness. I hope this solves your problem, it worked for me.

RCSignals
04-17-2004, 11:23 PM
Mine or Ryan's? This afternoon I heard what I fear is the return of the ticking... same head, same location. I have the first 'revision' of the head, Ryan appears to have the latest. Now the challenge is to wrestle the info out of Ford as to what changed between revisions of the head...
Not again Blackcloud! :eek:

TripleTransAm
04-18-2004, 05:53 AM
I'll try the loosening trick. I would imagine that based on the description, if it gets worse when hot, it should be a cover torque thing, right? In my previous ticking episode, the ticking actually got slightly better as things warmed up (according to my technician, I had a hard time telling, as I was equally annoyed both warm and cold).

If it is the fault of the first revision of replacement head, yep that does suck donkey testicles alright. Yesterday I was wishing I'd have sat tight and waited for someone else to go through the initial fight with Ford, but based on some of the answers some of your dealers were doling out, I think we'd still be totally in the dark, so I took advantage of my dealer's willingness to dig deeper. I'm glad the eagerness to fix this has spread among our dealers, but it still sucks to have to go through all this again.

Glad I still have the Civic... like a f***ing Timex, it takes a licking and keeps on (not) ticking... ;)
(anyone want to start a pro-American-car anti-Jap thread again? I'll lead... honest... :up: )

junehhan
04-18-2004, 11:52 AM
Do yourself a favor, try loosening up the valve cover bolts beginning at the one nearest the firewall. After installation of my new head and valve covers, the ticking became evident after the engine was warmed to to operating temp. The covers are supposed to be torqued ti 30lb/ft this is too much. get a stethoscope and place it on the cover and loosen the bolt one turn at a time and see if the tapping dissipates.

Just a voice crying out from the wilderness. I hope this solves your problem, it worked for me.

Hey Mercman, that's an interesting suggestion, and I think i'll give it a try since with the exception of 1 or 2 times, my ticking has really only surfaced after the engine has gotten nice and not.

cgg074
04-25-2004, 12:33 AM
Do yourself a favor, try loosening up the valve cover bolts beginning at the one nearest the firewall. After installation of my new head and valve covers, the ticking became evident after the engine was warmed to to operating temp. The covers are supposed to be torqued ti 30lb/ft this is too much. get a stethoscope and place it on the cover and loosen the bolt one turn at a time and see if the tapping dissipates.

Just a voice crying out from the wilderness. I hope this solves your problem, it worked for me.
Hey Mercman,
I will also try loosening up the valve cover bolts beginning at the one nearest the firewall - [/B]ONLY THAT ONE?[B]
One full turn, turn and a half, or half a turn??
I don't want to see oil spilled all over the engine lol

Do you have a picture that you could mark exactly wich bolts to loosen up first?

Thank you very much!!

The tap tap drives me crazy!

MERCMAN
04-25-2004, 06:25 AM
I will try to get a pic posted today!! :up:

cgg074
04-25-2004, 08:58 AM
I will try to get a pic posted today!! :up:
Thank you very much!
I will be out of town this week, but I will try to access the forum from another computer, so when I get back, can begin the loosening up bolts process.

One more thing, when loosening, do I give a full turn, a turn and a half or just half a turn??? I want to be sure not to have oil spilled over the headers :help:

Thanks!

MERCMAN
04-25-2004, 09:17 AM
The best way to figure out how much to loosen the bolt would be to get a stethoscope, and while the engine is warm and tapping, listen through the stethoscope and loosen the bolt until the tapping disappears. This will vary with each engine I assume, there is no "ideal" number of turns. If you don't have access to a stethoscope, do it the old fashioned way, put your ear close to the valve cover :) Your tapping might not be related to the valve cover, but if it is this is a cheap and easy fix

cgg074
04-25-2004, 09:38 AM
The best way to figure out how much to loosen the bolt would be to get a stethoscope, and while the engine is warm and tapping, listen through the stethoscope and loosen the bolt until the tapping disappears. This will vary with each engine I assume, there is no "ideal" number of turns. If you don't have access to a stethoscope, do it the old fashioned way, put your ear close to the valve cover :) Your tapping might not be related to the valve cover, but if it is this is a cheap and easy fix
Thank you very much!
Please, remember to upload a picture of which bolt to loose first. If you can't upload it, you can email it to me cgg074@yahoo.com

I had my lifters replaced and the cam ladders retorqued. The tick is still there.
Most noticable when the car is fully warmed up. It's there at any RPM. I can hear it through the dashboard. I sounds like a snake rattle when above 2500 RPM's.

I want to try everything possible before changing the heads. The head replacement is my last choice. But I only have 5K miles on it, so I have plenty of time and warranty to make this. At least it's on the dealership record.

MERCMAN
04-25-2004, 04:29 PM
Loosen the one with the arrow first, if tapping diminishes, but not gone completely, loosen the one directly below it. On mine just the top one seemed to do the trick. Again, I determined the tapping was coming from that particular area by using a stethoscope, and I would suggest you use one as well just to "narrow down" the offending area.

junehhan
04-25-2004, 07:49 PM
Thanks for posting that picture, as it will help me as well since i'm going to give this a try. Cgg074, my tapping except for one time, has only appeared itself after the engine has fully warmed itself up and is hot. Out of curiosity, how many miles do you have, and what year is your car?

TripleTransAm
04-26-2004, 05:53 AM
I tried this on Saturday afternoon... I could almost swear the ticking decreased in intensity, but I still have *some* noise in there. However, it isn't the sharp ticking I was so sensitive to, but some sort of tapping sound. I wonder if this is the improperly torqued cam hold-downs? Nonetheless, you REALLY have to get close to the driver's wheel well now, to be able to make out the sound. Good enough for me, until I run this by my tech.

junehhan
04-26-2004, 10:22 AM
I tried this on Saturday afternoon... I could almost swear the ticking decreased in intensity, but I still have *some* noise in there. However, it isn't the sharp ticking I was so sensitive to, but some sort of tapping sound. I wonder if this is the improperly torqued cam hold-downs? Nonetheless, you REALLY have to get close to the driver's wheel well now, to be able to make out the sound. Good enough for me, until I run this by my tech.


Steve! I am highly interested in what you find out from your tech! Keep us up to date. I still havn't found the time to try loosening up the valve covers yet, but i'll have to give it a shot. Is there any way you can record your tapping noise so we can compare notes here? I have my tapping noise on video, but havn't had a chance to convert it to windows media player format yet since I need to borrow my friend's computer to do that(too slow).

TripleTransAm
04-26-2004, 12:05 PM
I'll try to do this during the week, but I can't promise anything. The past 3-4 months have been crazy, and I think mid May will bring an enormous relief in terms of a slowdown in my life rhythm.

About the noise... I wonder if it will even show up on videotape... it's very much quieter than what I endured last summer. As promised, I will try to get it taped properly.

junehhan
04-26-2004, 09:21 PM
I'll try to do this during the week, but I can't promise anything. The past 3-4 months have been crazy, and I think mid May will bring an enormous relief in terms of a slowdown in my life rhythm.

About the noise... I wonder if it will even show up on videotape... it's very much quieter than what I endured last summer. As promised, I will try to get it taped properly.

I have a video of my engine tapping on tape, but it's a matter of converting it do windows media player format which isn't possible on my outdated computer. If I get that done, i'll send it to you first.

Constable
04-26-2004, 10:04 PM
Hey Steve, I hear the tapping again!! HAHA... I'm going insane!! I, too, am so accustomed to hearing it slapping around in the guide. I may just be imagining the sound because I know it so well. I do hear something, though. Glad it's 100x better than it was before.

cgg074
05-02-2004, 03:14 PM
I have a video of my engine tapping on tape, but it's a matter of converting it do windows media player format which isn't possible on my outdated computer. If I get that done, i'll send it to you first.
This a link that someone sent me.

http://home.satx.rr.com/stang93/tick.mp3

Hope it helps!

junehhan
05-02-2004, 07:16 PM
This a link that someone sent me.

http://home.satx.rr.com/stang93/tick.mp3

Hope it helps!


Dude, that's the tapping noise that i've been experiencing! They(the dealer) keep telling me that the Ford hotline told them that the issue is under investigation and not to do anything...............

MERCMAN
05-02-2004, 07:19 PM
Dude, that's the tapping noise that i've been experiencing! They(the dealer) keep telling me that the Ford hotline told them that the issue is under investigation and not to do anything...............
\\that is :bs: exact same noise before I had my head replaced!!! Get them on it:up:

junehhan
05-02-2004, 07:22 PM
\\that is :bs: exact same noise before I had my head replaced!!! Get them on it:up:


I think what's throwing them off, is that my engine isn't blowing any blue smoke even during startup, or seeming to consume any oil either. I've got 9000 miles now, and the oil level hasn't changed yet from when I had the oil changed 4000 miles ago.

MERCMAN
05-02-2004, 07:43 PM
I think what's throwing them off, is that my engine isn't blowing any blue smoke even during startup, or seeming to consume any oil either. I've got 9000 miles now, and the oil level hasn't changed yet from when I had the oil changed 4000 miles ago.
mine NEVER smoked, just made that infernal sound,, have them replace the head, it is the only fix if it is not the valve covers

cgg074
05-02-2004, 07:56 PM
I think what's throwing them off, is that my engine isn't blowing any blue smoke even during startup, or seeming to consume any oil either. I've got 9000 miles now, and the oil level hasn't changed yet from when I had the oil changed 4000 miles ago.
I don't have a Marauder; what I have is a Mach 1. I got this link from a Mach1Registry member.
My Mach's engine is a 32-Valve V8 DOHC.
And it ticks since 1K miles. It doesn't blow any blue smoke though. It doesn't burn oil either. Now it has 4,900 miles and ticking all the way!

I got my lifters replaced and the cam ladders retorqued. And it still ticks when engine is warm.

I will try loosening the valve covers bolts a little bit as mercman told us. Let's see if this helps.

But if the tick doesn't goes away, it is definitely the head. :cry:

I didn't want the dealer to pull out the engine to change the head, but eventually it will happen. :alone:

cgg074
05-02-2004, 08:00 PM
mine NEVER smoked, just made that infernal sound,, have them replace the head, it is the only fix if it is not the valve covers
But your tick was due to the valve covers or the head? :confused:

When they replaced the head, you still had the same tick right? It was resolved with the valve covers bolts loosening?

MERCMAN
05-02-2004, 08:30 PM
But your tick was due to the valve covers or the head? :confused:

When they replaced the head, you still had the same tick right? It was resolved with the valve covers bolts loosening?


They original tapping was NOT valve covers. L/M advised to loosen the valve covers first, no help, I had the cam head bolts re-torqued and it still was there when the engine warmed up. After the new head was installed, the noise came back, somewhat different, not as loud, but still there. L/M advised changing to the new valve covers,, still no relief. I backed off the bolt on the valve cover and the noise disappeared.

Fourth Horseman
05-02-2004, 11:56 PM
For those that have had success losening the valve cover bolt(s): was it only on the driver's side head, or both? I can't really tell where my ticking is coming from and I don't have a scope to listen with.

MERCMAN
05-03-2004, 03:36 AM
For those that have had success losening the valve cover bolt(s): was it only on the driver's side head, or both? I can't really tell where my ticking is coming from and I don't have a scope to listen with.

As for me, it was only the drivers side.

cgg074
05-04-2004, 07:07 AM
As for me, it was only the drivers side.
A quick question mercman, did your tap/tick (the one caused by the overtorqued valve covers; after the head replacement) sounded all the time or just when warmed up?

Mine sounds all the time, but louder when fully warmed up.

MERCMAN
05-04-2004, 07:12 AM
A quick question mercman, did your tap/tick (the one caused by the overtorqued valve covers; after the head replacement) sounded all the time or just when warmed up?

Mine sounds all the time, but louder when fully warmed up.


It was very faint when the engine was cold, but after normal operating temp was reached it became more noticable.

cgg074
05-04-2004, 07:18 AM
It was very faint when the engine was cold, but after normal operating temp was reached it became more noticable.
You could hear it only at idle or when accelerating also?

On mine it's more noticable when accelerating. At idle I cant' hear it.
It gets louder around the 2k - 3k RPM range.

But it is definitely coming from the valve covers or head area.

MERCMAN
05-04-2004, 07:28 AM
You could hear it only at idle or when accelerating also?

On mine it's more noticable when accelerating. At idle I cant' hear it.
It gets louder around the 2k - 3k RPM range.

But it is definitely coming from the valve covers or head area.


I would get that checked out pronto, IMHO it is not the valve covers, i sounds like the valve guide issue to me. If you can hear it loudest from the wheelwell on the drivers side and it gets louder with increased RPM's that is a good indication to me that it isn't the valve covers hitting the rockers. But then, I am certainly no wrench by any stretch of ANYONES imagination. Check with TTA (triple trans am)he has forgotten more than I have (or will) ever know about this engine. :up:

TripleTransAm
05-04-2004, 08:02 AM
Let's not forget the cam hold-down torque issue either... from what I remember from that thread, if it's quiet at idle but louder at 2000 RPM, it's the improper torque. If it ticks at idle but gets less noticeable as RPM increases, it's most likely valve guides.

With all this 'noise' getting generated by the driver's side of the engine, you'd think the PCM would be pulling out all sorts of ignition advance due to false knock detection! As it stands, I'm trying to figure out what the knock values represent on my Autotap because numerically they just don't make sense (that, and the crazy 20% throttle opening values when I'm completely off the gas... WTF?)

MERCMAN
05-04-2004, 08:06 AM
See!!! I told ya so :lol:

cgg074
05-04-2004, 08:24 AM
Let's not forget the cam hold-down torque issue either... from what I remember from that thread, if it's quiet at idle but louder at 2000 RPM, it's the improper torque. If it ticks at idle but gets less noticeable as RPM increases, it's most likely valve guides.
I had the lifters replaced and the cam ladders retorqued. And the tick is still there.

I will try the loosening of the valve covers bolts. If the tick continues, it is the head for sure. :cry:

The weird thing is that my drivers side head has the blue painting on it. So it's supposed to be the revised one.
:confused:

TripleTransAm
05-04-2004, 08:31 AM
Blue painting? Whassup with that? Can you describe this further, I'm really curious.

I agree that you should have this reported. This DOHC is supposed to be a smooth modern high-tech high-performance masterpiece of engineering, not a ticking rattling noisy clicker straight out of 1969 with a cam WAY too big for its own good.

Your ticking could even be as a result of some other problem that none of us has ever encountered (just think: you can be a PIONEER in the resolution of this problem), so it pays to have it looked it.

PS: what value where the holders torqued down to ? If I recall correctly, there was much debate over which values were the ones to use.

cgg074
05-04-2004, 08:44 AM
Blue painting? Whassup with that? Can you describe this further, I'm really curious.

I agree that you should have this reported. This DOHC is supposed to be a smooth modern high-tech high-performance masterpiece of engineering, not a ticking rattling noisy clicker straight out of 1969 with a cam WAY too big for its own good.

Your ticking could even be as a result of some other problem that none of us has ever encountered (just think: you can be a PIONEER in the resolution of this problem), so it pays to have it looked it.

PS: what value where the holders torqued down to ? If I recall correctly, there was much debate over which values were the ones to use.
I don't know man. But this ticking/rattle is really annoying. But I believe I will leave it like that because I don't want the dealer to PLAY with my engine.
I guess I will leave it like that until something breaks loose.

About the blue painting, there is supposed to be a blue mark on the revised heads. At least that what I was told. And mine has a blue mark, just below the valve covers facing the injectors.

tta197
05-04-2004, 12:07 PM
For what it's worth, my car had the valve train noise also between 1800 and 2500 rpm. And ever since I personally retorqued the camshaft bearing caps, my engine has been very quiet (knock on wood, I hope it stays this way). Nicholas...

cgg074
05-05-2004, 09:16 AM
See!!! I told ya so :lol:
Which one is your Head Part Number?

2C5Z-6049-EA, 2C5Z-6049-GA, or 2C5Z-6049-HA?

It comes with the complete assembly? The valves, etc?? Or just the bare head?

TripleTransAm
05-05-2004, 05:08 PM
I have the part number as listed in the original BON notice. My head work was done back in October of 2003.

cgg074
05-05-2004, 11:08 PM
I have the part number as listed in the original BON notice. My head work was done back in October of 2003.
You have the EA?

Your tick was fixed??