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Motorhead350
10-21-2013, 07:55 PM
Yes, this thing now reminds me of every reason why carburetors are garbage in the midwest. When I start this thing when it's below 50 outside it turns over and over and will not start. Sometimes I have to stop cranking it to save the battery and starter. By the 3rd time I turn it over, I will use a little throttle and BOOM! it fires up! BUT BOOM is exactly what happens. It will struggle to stay alive and backfire like crazy while I keep on the throttle waking it up.

I thought this was in the tune since the N/A setup, but Mr. Happy tells me it's mechanical and NOT in the tune. Right now the car has a malfunctioning passenger side coolant temperature sensor and I will address that soon. The only reason I think this is not it, is because the car was and still is fine above 60 and I have had this problem with the sensor for a few weeks now... ALL without cold start troubles.

After you drive it, warm it up and go around town it's fine. When the car is warm you can start it no problem, but if it sits all night, it will be harder to wake up than me after two hours of sleep.

Any suggestions besides cleaning the MAF?

Limited360
10-21-2013, 07:59 PM
If the passenger side ECT sensor feeds the ECU, its starting under a 'default' value. Hence its probably rich as hell. Fix the sensor and try again. This would show more and more trouble in the cold weather.

Fix sensor, bet trouble goes away.

tbone
10-22-2013, 07:53 AM
When my fuel pump was going out I sometimes had a no start, crank and crank and then slowly come to life. Probably not your issue but you never know.

lji372
10-22-2013, 08:01 AM
:wave: mr. happy

martyo
10-22-2013, 08:12 AM
Isn't there a decent bus system in Chicago?

EMAS
10-22-2013, 08:14 AM
The amount of warm up enrichment is directly tied to the reading from the CTS. If they CTS is too far out of range the computer will substitute a value in the range of a fully warmed up engine. When it gets cold the engine won't run as rich as needed to start and run the engine without it popping and missing. So fix the CTS and your problem is likely to go away.

A dirty MAF can also cause hard starting when cold.

Haggis
10-22-2013, 08:21 AM
Isn't there a decent bus system in Chicago?

Take the taxi with the creepy whisky voice lady.

slickster
10-22-2013, 08:23 AM
Its just crying from being abused.

tbone
10-22-2013, 09:53 AM
Isn't there a decent bus system in Chicago?


lol

Dom - Just watch out for this guy.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll150/pacman14_2008/epic-bearded-man-1.jpg (http://www.kongregate.com/forums/2/topics/97652)

Motorhead350
10-22-2013, 11:59 AM
Take the taxi with the creepy whisky voice lady.

How do you remember that???


Its just crying from being abused.

No. Lack of boost. Like me, the baby needs its bottle.

MarauderMax
10-22-2013, 02:54 PM
How do you remember that???



No. Lack of boost. Like me, the baby needs its bottle.

No boost? I thought your car was supercharged?

lji372
10-22-2013, 03:03 PM
No boost? I thought your car WAS supercharged?

Was being the key word :/

Motorhead350
10-23-2013, 01:09 PM
lol

Dom - Just watch out for this guy.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll150/pacman14_2008/epic-bearded-man-1.jpg (http://www.kongregate.com/forums/2/topics/97652)

Actually, when using public transportation I never have anyone mess with me. Ever. If anything I chase them away. I'm not saying I'm a badass, but I know how to annoy people to a point where they need to physically remove themselves from me.

:eek:

RacerX
10-23-2013, 01:16 PM
You can always light a few cans of sterno and keep em under the oil pan to keep her warm.

Motorhead350
10-23-2013, 01:30 PM
Where do you think I live? Alaska?

LOL

Motorhead350
10-23-2013, 02:30 PM
Now it will not start at all!!!!

Motorhead350
10-23-2013, 02:35 PM
I hate this. I did not have problems like this until my sc kit had to be sold. That COT swap has totally screwed me!!!

Laugh all you want.

RR|Suki
10-23-2013, 03:05 PM
did you get the right sensor? Pretty sure the one to the ECU and the one to the gauge are different :confused: So if you got one that's for the gauge and spliced it in to the other clip I could see that giving you a problem maybe.

Kinda pulled that out of my ass though :banned:

Limited360
10-23-2013, 04:02 PM
Did you get a used sensor? I know you like your used parts...

RacerX
10-23-2013, 04:09 PM
Roll it down a really steep hill, jump in, then try and start it...




Really though. Did you pull the battery for a few mins to reset the PCM?

JoeBoomz
10-23-2013, 04:17 PM
did you get the right sensor? Pretty sure the one to the ECU and the one to the gauge are different :confused: So if you got one that's for the gauge and spliced it in to the other clip I could see that giving you a problem maybe.

Kinda pulled that out of my ass though :banned:

Correct. One of the sensors is for the gauge and is different for the other sensor on the ecu.

justbob
10-23-2013, 04:42 PM
Passenger side is ECM, driver side is gauge. If you purchased one from any FLAPS, it will be for the gauge no matter what you told them. To my knowledge they are night and day different regarding sensor outputs. Also why they have two different harness connections to make it idiot proof if removed and not labeled.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

EMAS
10-23-2013, 05:15 PM
If you soldered the input and output wires for the CTS together then you likely fried the VRef power supply in the computer.

Motorhead350
10-23-2013, 10:08 PM
Yes I know the sensors are different from passenger side and drivers. I have the correct one in the passenger side with the cone shape, while the drivers one is flat. Yes I sodered the wires together because I thought that was how to do it, how wrong I was.

I went to autozone and they keep trying to sell me the one with a flat head as suppose to the cone shape.

I love this. I have been trying to fix this for a month and it keeps getting worse. Becky had to literally talk me out of not setting the car on fire tonight.... the whole "If I cannot have it, no one can" attitude I have. Apparently, I cannot work on cars to save my life. I am not feeling sorry for myself, I do not know cars bottom line. Parking it and taking the train is my only option. I've had it. I'm done.

fastblackmerc
10-24-2013, 04:49 AM
Yes I know the sensors are different from passenger side and drivers. I have the correct one in the passenger side with the cone shape, while the drivers one is flat. Yes I sodered the wires together because I thought that was how to do it, how wrong I was.

I went to autozone and they keep trying to sell me the one with a flat head as suppose to the cone shape.

I love this. I have been trying to fix this for a month and it keeps getting worse. Becky had to literally talk me out of not setting the car on fire tonight.... the whole "If I cannot have it, no one can" attitude I have. Apparently, I cannot work on cars to save my life. I am not feeling sorry for myself, I do not know cars bottom line. Parking it and taking the train is my only option. I've had it. I'm done.
Cry us a river........

That what happens when you:

Beat the s**t out of your car
Use junk yard parts
Don't fix things right away
Try to "cheap on" on repairs

So we'll be seeing your MM on Craigslist soon?

Haggis
10-24-2013, 04:55 AM
so we'll be seeing your mm on craigslist soon?

$8.00
.....

fastblackmerc
10-24-2013, 05:02 AM
$8.00
.....

No dibs on the floor mats!

Limited360
10-24-2013, 05:20 AM
Yes I know the sensors are different from passenger side and drivers. I have the correct one in the passenger side with the cone shape, while the drivers one is flat. Yes I sodered the wires together because I thought that was how to do it, how wrong I was.

I went to autozone and they keep trying to sell me the one with a flat head as suppose to the cone shape.

I love this. I have been trying to fix this for a month and it keeps getting worse. Becky had to literally talk me out of not setting the car on fire tonight.... the whole "If I cannot have it, no one can" attitude I have. Apparently, I cannot work on cars to save my life. I am not feeling sorry for myself, I do not know cars bottom line. Parking it and taking the train is my only option. I've had it. I'm done.


What Pcodes does the vehicle have? If you fried the 5V signal supply in the ECU you will have a bunch of codes.

If you soldered the wires together I would guess you did fry it...

$8.01 for complete car, I have trailer, will haul away for free :banana2:

Haggis
10-24-2013, 05:44 AM
No dibs on the floor mats!

Ewwwwwwwww!!!!!!!

tbone
10-24-2013, 06:33 AM
I know how you're feeling Dom. Been there, done that with a brand new POS Yamaha snowmobile I bought once. I wanted to take it, wrap it up and send it back to Japan with a **** inside it.

Take a deep breath, stand back, take a break and then go at it again. You'll figure it out with the help here.....

Motorhead350
10-24-2013, 01:32 PM
Cry us a river........

That what happens when you:

Beat the s**t out of your car
Use junk yard parts
Don't fix things right away
Try to "cheap on" on repairs

So we'll be seeing your MM on Craigslist soon?

Things are fixed correctly. I follow advice on here, it does not work, I get mad and told I cannot fix a car by those who gave me the advice that did not solve the issue.

Junkyard parts are only for solid objects now.

justbob
10-24-2013, 04:16 PM
Who on here said to solder the wires together? I gotta know this! You may have mentioned this already and I missed it but I'm just curious as to why you had to swap connectors in the first place? Certainly not jabbing you, just trying to get a handle on the whole picture to maybe help if possible.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

Motorhead350
10-24-2013, 04:52 PM
Lately, I have been trying to fix things before posting... how wrong I was

I had to put in a new clip on each sensor. The sensors have two wires. I stripped and sodered them to establish a connection... like how I fix guitars. So I made the mistake of sodering the wires together and nothing worked. A few people think I fried the passenger sensor, but I did the drivers the same way and it works... dumb luck I guess.

fastblackmerc
10-25-2013, 07:30 AM
Lately, I have been trying to fix things before posting... how wrong I was

I had to put in a new clip on each sensor. The sensors have two wires. I stripped and sodered them to establish a connection... like how I fix guitars. So I made the mistake of sodering the wires together and nothing worked. A few people think I fried the passenger sensor, but I did the drivers the same way and it works... dumb luck I guess.

Why would you do that in the first place????

Motorhead350
10-25-2013, 12:06 PM
Why would you do that in the first place????

Honestly?

The reasoning is because I am tired of only 1 out of 7 posts for a reply to a thread of mine actually being useful. The other 6 posts will be criticism and gay jokes that will be completely useless to fixing the issue. Zack has had enough and I felt as though it was time to step up to the plate and try to do this myself. I have had other issues I "figured out" just fine, but this one stumped me. Being that it's not something common, I cannot look up in the search, I had no choice, but to post here and get ready for the flame job that would come with it.

I've dealt with electric guitars before and they were pretty straight forward. I made a mistake, but I didn't break it, not ATTEMPT fix it and complain about it as everyone is viewing... and even if they aren't, they say they are just to rattle the cage.

So there. I fail.

Motorhead350
10-25-2013, 07:11 PM
Sensor changed again.

No change.

Fresh NAPA brand.

All problems point to the sensor, but its acting as if its getting no power. Thr drivers one works though.

I cannot find the misconnection.

Limited360
10-25-2013, 07:23 PM
Sensor changed again.

No change.

Fresh NAPA brand.

All problems point to the sensor, but its acting as if its getting no power. Thr drivers one works though.

I cannot find the misconnection.

What fault codes does the car have? My guess is you fried the sensor 5V feed. If so you need a new ECU.

I can't be 100% as I dont have a wiring schematic, however my guess is the passenger side is on a different 5v source.

I do OBD II calibration for a living. i am willing to help diagnose. Need standard information.

Key on car , pull fault codes... go from there.

Motorhead350
10-25-2013, 08:19 PM
I am throwing code P1290 and now after a little playing around I have P1289.... now it will not fire up at all. Car is in operating temperature.

EMAS
10-26-2013, 12:05 AM
The temp sender for the gauge is a completely different system from the coolant temp sensor for the computer system.

On the plus side those codes are only for the CTS, you did not fry the computer's VRef circuit.

The two codes are the opposite of each other. P1290 indicates low input from the CTS. This could be caused by an open circuit or having the engine "on" with the sensor disconnected.

P1289 indicates high input from the CTS. This could be caused by the circuit being grounded before the sensor or from when you soldered the sensor wire to the sensor ground.

Since the Marauder has fail safe cooling if the computer thinks that the engine temp is over 300 degrees it will shut off the injectors and prevent the engine from running however that should have set a P1299

So the next thing I would try is to verify that there is no short between the sensor wire yellow/lt green stripe and the sensor ground green/red stripe. Next disconnect the battery and connector to the sensor. Then reconnect the battery and attempt to start the engine. Because the computer won't know the engine temp it will be hard to start and you will likely need to give it some throttle to get it going. It will likely set a code even if the engine does not start so after starting or attempting to start check the codes again, and report the code back if you do get one.

Motorhead350
10-26-2013, 02:24 AM
Ok here is whats up. The sensor is getting 500 when cold and should be getting 35,000. Oms I believe? Anyway I do have problems when starting it and need the throttle to bring it to life. JBreezy has been nice enough to send me my old sensor back. I should get it today or next week.

Yes we had the car running with both sensors unplugged for trail and error. I guess thats why I got both engine codes. I always get P1290.

The solution seems to be to get my old sensor back in and everything should work.

Napa does not seem to sell the right sensor, nor does autozone or Ford. Ford showed me both COT sensors have the same part number. I do not know who sells the actual correct one.

justbob
10-26-2013, 05:38 AM
I warned you about them selling the wrong ones. Dom, I have been there and fixed that before.. Ford doesn't even know simply because their engine diagram for most any part I have had to find is a SOHC! Do like me and do all your own research prior to going in, trust nobody, and teach to deaf ears.

I still would like to know why you changed the clips? Because they sold you the wrong part?


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

RacerX
10-26-2013, 06:29 AM
The senor end is shaped differently on them. I believe the flat/round end is for DS/Gauge and the cone shaped end is PS/PCM. I believe that's correct.

http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=40533&imageurl=http%3A//www.rockauto.com/info/SMP/TS357_PRIMARY.jpg
http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=936485&imageurl=http%3A//www.rockauto.com/info/Airtex/1T1117.jpg

justbob
10-26-2013, 06:40 AM
I know that they are idiot proof. Hence my question. This should have been an instant red flag.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

RacerX
10-26-2013, 06:47 AM
I know that they are idiot proof. Hence my question. This should have been an instant red flag.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"
"Idiot Proof" and "Dom Proof" are on different pages... :D

fastblackmerc
10-26-2013, 01:05 PM
Honestly?

The reasoning is because I am tired of only 1 out of 7 posts for a reply to a thread of mine actually being useful. The other 6 posts will be criticism and gay jokes that will be completely useless to fixing the issue. I cannot look up in the search, I had no choice, but to post here and get ready for the flame job that would come with it.


Dom... do you think maybe you brought this on yourself?




I've dealt with electric guitars before and they were pretty straight forward. I made a mistake, but I didn't break it, not ATTEMPT fix it and complain about it as everyone is viewing... and even if they aren't, they say they are just to rattle the cage.

So there. I fail.

FYI..........

Cars are not like guitars. They have nothing in common.

Joe Walsh
10-26-2013, 01:18 PM
Dom... do you think maybe you brought this on yourself?

FYI..........

Cars are not like guitars. They have nothing in common.

Except that Kerosene does bad things to both.

fastblackmerc
10-26-2013, 01:23 PM
except that kerosene does bad things to both.

bazinga!!!!!!!!!!!!

Motorhead350
10-26-2013, 02:26 PM
I warned you about them selling the wrong ones. Dom, I have been there and fixed that before.. Ford doesn't even know simply because their engine diagram for most any part I have had to find is a SOHC! Do like me and do all your own research prior to going in, trust nobody, and teach to deaf ears.

I still would like to know why you changed the clips? Because they sold you the wrong part?


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

I changed the clips because one broken when I disconnected it. Last time I saw Zack he took a look at it and told me the clip needed to be replaced. This broken clip was on the drivers side. Being that the passenger side one was not working he suggested I replace both. That is the reasoning for my action.

I do not know why Ford and other store do NOT sell the right part.


Dom... do you think maybe you brought this on yourself?

FYI..........

Cars are not like guitars. They have nothing in common.

Absolutely. I brought it on myself.

Have you ever worked on a guitar? The wiring for pickups is very similar to the wiring I have been working on for this sensor issue. At least for humbucker pickups.

Still, if I wasted $60 on sensors, it still saved me money to be wrong than pay a shop and get it right. Plus my dumbass learned something. Hell for $60 they won't even say it's broken. Or in this case the wrong part, even if ALL suppliers insisted it was the right part. 5 out of 5 sources/stores have been wrong.

Unbelievable.

Big thanks to Ben last night for coming out till 4am and working the cold with me on this. He brought over some tool that measures OMS and this determined the issue.

RF Overlord
10-26-2013, 02:34 PM
Ohms. Measure of resistance.

fastblackmerc
10-26-2013, 04:04 PM
I changed the clips because one broken when I disconnected it. Last time I saw Zack he took a look at it and told me the clip needed to be replaced. This broken clip was on the drivers side. Being that the passenger side one was not working he suggested I replace both. That is the reasoning for my action.

I do not know why Ford and other store do NOT sell the right part.



Absolutely. I brought it on myself.

Have you ever worked on a guitar? The wiring for pickups is very similar to the wiring I have been working on for this sensor issue. At least for humbucker pickups.

Still, if I wasted $60 on sensors, it still saved me money to be wrong than pay a shop and get it right. Plus my dumbass learned something. Hell for $60 they won't even say it's broken. Or in this case the wrong part, even if ALL suppliers insisted it was the right part. 5 out of 5 sources/stores have been wrong.

Unbelievable.

Big thanks to Ben last night for coming out till 4am and working the cold with me on this. He brought over some tool that measures OMS and this determined the issue.
So you brought this upon yourself and your complain about how you are treated..... United States of the Offended.

No I've never worked on a guitar but I know enough that it very different for an automobile.....

Limited360
10-26-2013, 04:09 PM
I agree with fastblackmerc.... Guitar and car are nothing alike aside from fact they use wires...

MarauderMax
10-26-2013, 04:11 PM
Wow, a little of "I told you so" goes a long way, now it just seems like a pile on and pick on the guy. Not everyone is a car guy, guitar guy, house guy etc., I think the point has been made, I am seeing why he wouldn't ask for help.

Bigdogjim
10-26-2013, 04:54 PM
Wow, a little of "I told you so" goes a long way, now it just seems like a pile on and pick on the guy. Not everyone is a car guy, guitar guy, house guy etc., I think the point has been made, I am seeing why he wouldn't ask for help.

I see you point about some "harsh" feedback/posts.

Pretty much everyone I have come into contact with that has any kind of car, hi-performance to low performance(lol) knows of or has a shop to do repairs from time to time.

To me car care is more then asking questions on an internet forum or have a friend with a garage and thinking that will get you through.

Again just my spin on thing.

Motorhead350
10-26-2013, 06:15 PM
So you brought this upon yourself and your complain about how you are treated..... United States of the Offended.

No I've never worked on a guitar but I know enough that it very different for an automobile.....

No not offended, I knew what to expect. As I said. 6 out of 7 posts will be useless and 1 will point out the issue.

ME coming here asking for advice is like going to a grumping old man. Eventually, I will get useful advice, but it will start with a lot of barking and disrespect.

Jim, if you have never worked on it guitar, you do not know the part I was comparing. It's a simple wiring part on a guitar and this is very simple on the car.

To anyone who has ever changed a humbucker pickup and rewired a cars COT sensor... it's the same thing.

A guitar and car are very different, yes that is true, but.... nevermind. I am done trying to explain this. Those that understand, get it, those that do not will deny the similarity.

Thanks for the advice to those that helped.

Not offended, not butthurt, but a board full of grouches that dwindle on my past mistakes is what is here.

IwantmyMMnow!
10-26-2013, 06:54 PM
Not offended, not butthurt, but a board full of grouches that dwindle on my past mistakes is what is here.

I kinda feel your pain, Dom, but in the opposite way. I've started several threads (and a few PMs) with questions and get nothing but crickets. It kinda bothers me, but after reading this thread, I'd rather have the crickets...they're more pleasant to listen to, anyway.

Hope you get her up and running again...can't wait to hear what your next problem is...:P

RF Overlord
10-26-2013, 06:55 PM
We've ALL made dumbass mistakes. I don't care WHO you are.

When I was a teenager, I thought I'd do the old man a favour and tune up his car. Replaced the plugs, wires, cap & rotor, and the points & condenser. (Those of us over 40 will remember those last 4 parts) Car wouldn't start...backfired through the carburetor...I was starting to get really worried. Called the local gas station and they sent a guy over who determined that I had put the plug wires into the cap in the wrong firing order...I had them 1-2-3-4-5-6... :eek: :shake:

So cut Dom some slack!



Heh...1-2-3-4-5-6...that's the kind of thing an idiot would have on his luggage...

JoeBoomz
10-26-2013, 07:23 PM
Heh...1-2-3-4-5-6...that's the kind of thing an idiot would have on his luggage...

That's AMAZING! I have the same combination on my luggage!

I miss the distributor days. Well not really. But problems were definitely much simpler then. Mechanical fuel pump bolted to the block and a screw to set the air fuel mixture. None of this bad connections or grounding issues crap to deal with. Or failed temp sensors making the car not run at all!!!

Dom I'm glad the car is running again. I recommend against doing donuts in it. Baby it and enjoy it!