Blew an axle seal

[License2Bill]

I noticed a blown axle seal on the passenger side of my 2003 300A (build date 10-4-02) the other day and haven't driven it since. Prior to this, I had been hearing a noise that varied in frequency as the speed of the vehicle changed.

I used the search function and was able to find the TSB number 03-05-05, but that apparently only applies to vehicles under 36,000 and something about a Ford recall 04S16, which states bad bearings and improper lubrication could lead to axle failure in Crown Vics and Town Cars. Dealers were instructed to install p/n 3W1Z-4A109-AA Rear Axle Bearing Service kit, which consists of new axles, bearings, seals and 75w-140 gear oil.

I was just quoted $1100 + tax to have this taken care of at a stealership, seems pretty steep to me. Has anybody ever had this work done without paying that much (meaning for free or just a deductible) out of pocket?

[fastblackmerc]

I noticed a blown axle seal on the passenger side of my 2003 300A (build date 10-4-02) the other day and haven't driven it since. Prior to this, I had been hearing a noise that varied in frequency as the speed of the vehicle changed.

I used the search function and was able to find the TSB number 03-05-05, but that apparently only applies to vehicles under 36,000 and something about a Ford recall 04S16, which states bad bearings and improper lubrication could lead to axle failure in Crown Vics and Town Cars. Dealers were instructed to install p/n 3W1Z-4A109-AA Rear Axle Bearing Service kit, which consists of new axles, bearings, seals and 75w-140 gear oil.

I was just quoted $1100 + tax to have this taken care of at a stealership, seems pretty steep to me. Has anybody ever had this work done without paying that much (meaning for free or just a deductible) out of pocket?
Can probably find a local shop to do it for less. Get recommendations from friends, relatives, etc., also check with the local mustang clubs in your area for recommendations.

[Peteyg]

It's not that hard to do yourself. The whole job shouldn't take more than a couple hours. The parts are the expensive stuff, but the axle shafts shouldn't be more then $300 for the pair, and the bearings, seals, and oil doesn't add up to more than another $100. So, $400 in parts, and assume a minimum job rate of 3 hours. Even at $100/hr, that's another $300. $700-$800 for the whole job would be reasonable.

I'm guessing you're getting ripped off on the axle shafts. I'll bet Ford wants a king's ransom for those.

[License2Bill]

I've tried doing axle seals and bearings on my Crown Vic, didn't seat the bearing correctly, they came apart in the housing and actually wore the end of the tube into a tear drop shape. That was a $2500 fix to get a new rear end installed.

I forgot to add, the $1100 was with a diff clutch repack as well. Still seems high to me.

[Peteyg]

The bearings and seals will be exactly the same on the MM as it is on the CV. I'll bet you know what you did wrong the first time and would be unlikely to make the same mistake again. But if you have the money and want peace of mind, the stealership is definitely the way to go.

The LSD re-pack is a real PITA. That adds another couple hundred. The actual rebuild kit from Ford is only about $60, but it's a lot of work, and if done wrong will make a lot of noise and not work properly.

[RF Overlord]

They're called "stealerships" for a reason.


also check with the local mustang clubs in your area for recommendations.This.

[License2Bill]

But if you have the money and want peace of mind, the stealership is definitely the way to go.


I'm having to borrow from my room mates (read parents) to pay for this repair. A friend of a friend has his own shop, but definitely seems a little on the shady side. I supply the parts, pay him cash only, no credit cards. $250 max though on the labor.

[lifespeed]

A friend of a friend has his own shop, but definitely seems a little on the shady side. I supply the parts, pay him cash only, no credit cards. $250 max though on the labor.

A rear end is not the place to have some yokel who does not know what they're doing messing around. No offense to your shady friend. :D

The rear ends on these cars only last around 100K before needing new axles, clutches, seals. Heck, call it a complete rebuild as you may as well change the carrier bearings while you're in there.

Car maintenance co$t$, and you just came due for a major one. Good luck. The best thing you can do is to find a shop that specializes in rear end work and get it fixed right. Or do it yourself. But you have to do it right . . .

[Blk04MM]

Insane price. It pays to know how to do these things. Lean and save yourself some big bucks

[clmrt]

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-630-214/overview/year/2003/make/ford/model/crown-victoria

[Vortech347]

Buy the kit and do it yourself. Its super easy doing rear end work.

My 03' **** the bed with its axles too. Happened around 45k. They were grooved BAD.

[lifespeed]

Buy the kit and do it yourself. Its super easy doing rear end work.

Let's not over-simplify. OP tried this once before and failed. Yes, the axles by themselves are straightforward enough. But very few axle assemblies need axles only once they have been run long enough to see this failure.

Typically limited slip clutches (or just replace the entire carrier), carrier and pinion bearings and seal, and complete tear down to clean out all the metal shavings are required. Proper re-assembly requires setting the contact pattern, pinion depth and backlash.

While it is possible for the average person to do this using care and access to the proper tools and parts, it is not trivial. Any errors will result in noise and rapid wear.

[Vortech347]

You don't have to "set" anything up. Its like lego's. I guess I've just done it to many times on Ford rear ends and its like changing shirts to me. LOL

[License2Bill]

I'm only guessing that it needs a clutch repack at this point. The last time I did a burnout, it resulted in a one wheel peel, which to me seems to mean burnt diff clutches.

Could I buy p/n 3W1Z-4A109-AA Rear Axle Bearing Service kit, have it installed and leave the clutches alone until I can afford to have them done?

[Hadamustang1]

Blew an axle seal

Is the axle seal only native to CT? Cause out here we have Harbor seals and fur seals but I've never heard of a axle seal.. Lol

[lifespeed]

I'm only guessing that it needs a clutch repack at this point. The last time I did a burnout, it resulted in a one wheel peel, which to me seems to mean burnt diff clutches.

Could I buy p/n 3W1Z-4A109-AA Rear Axle Bearing Service kit, have it installed and leave the clutches alone until I can afford to have them done?

At 120K miles it not only needs clutches but a complete rebuild. I understand money is tight, but your axle doesn't care.

The problem with just stuffing new axles in it is there is likely a significant amount of metal ground up in the oil from the failed axles/bearings and it hasn't done the rest of the parts in there any good. You need to clean it all out and replace ALL the bearings and seals.

Unless labor is free, it is not that cost effective to dig into it twice. Personally, even if it is my own labor, I never consider it "free". I hate doing things twice when I could have done it correctly once.

[lifespeed]

You don't have to "set" anything up. Its like lego's. I guess I've just done it to many times on Ford rear ends and its like changing shirts to me. LOL

I call BS. Replacing carrier and pinion bearings requires ring and pinion setup. But if you like to just slap it together in your car, go ahead . . .

[RF Overlord]

The rear ends on these cars only last around 100K before needing new axles, clutches, seals.


At 120K miles it not only needs clutches but a complete rebuild. Not meaning to argue with you, but I'm not so sure it's as dire as you say.

Mary's car has 180,000 miles currently. It's had 2 sets of axles, the first due to the "soft axle" issue, and the second due to my error in doing the first set myself...I don't think I cleaned out all the debris properly. But the clutches are still fine...and I'm pretty sure the guy who did the second set didn't do anything to the centre chunk other than replace the bearings.

Also, there are a bazillion ex-copcar taxis running around with huge mileage that haven't had a complete rebuild. An acquaintance owns a taxi company and I'm friends with his mechanic.

[lifespeed]

Not meaning to argue with you, but I'm not so sure it's as dire as you say.

Mary's car has 180,000 miles currently. It's had 2 sets of axles, the first due to the "soft axle" issue, and the second due to my error in doing the first set myself...I don't think I cleaned out all the debris properly. But the clutches are still fine...and I'm pretty sure the guy who did the second set didn't do anything to the centre chunk other than replace the bearings.

As with many things, your mileage may vary. If you did the bearings on the carrier (pinion bearing and seal also?) that does constitute a complete rebuild minus the clutches. And the clutches, while less effective, aren't critical to the axle rolling down the road. Speaking of clutches, put a new set in there and drive it around a bit. Then let me know what you think.

[lifespeed]

Also, there are a bazillion ex-copcar taxis running around with huge mileage that haven't had a complete rebuild. An acquaintance owns a taxi company and I'm friends with his mechanic.

No doubt! Many of us have higher standards than the cab companies.

[lifespeed]

A bearing kit (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-4210-c3/overview/) with seals, shims, gaskets etc from Ford is only $112. Of course there is labor. Money well spent. Do it right and you won't smell 90W oil for another 100K miles.

[fastblackmerc]

A bearing kit (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-4210-c3/overview/) with seals, shims, gaskets etc from Ford is only $112. Of course there is labor. Money well spent. Do it right and you won't smell 90W oil for another 100K miles.

The recommened oil is 70W/140

[License2Bill]

A bearing kit (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-4210-c3/overview/) with seals, shims, gaskets etc from Ford is only $112. Of course there is labor. Money well spent. Do it right and you won't smell 90W oil for another 100K miles.


If I'm going to do it once, I might as well do it right and buy axles at this point as well.

[RF Overlord]

Many of us have higher standards than the cab companies.I certainly hope so, but that isn't my point. It just sounds like you're saying that everyone will NEED to rebuilt their rear axle just because it has 100k miles on it.

[lifespeed]

I certainly hope so, but that isn't my point. It just sounds like you're saying that everyone will NEED to rebuilt their rear axle just because it has 100k miles on it.

I am saying clutches and axles will be needed about every 100K, at which point you are $100 worth of carrier and pinion bearings from a full rebuild.

[larryo340]

$100 maybe in parts alone for carrier and pinion bearings....I would think most of us are unable to properly set up a rear differential.
I for one don't see the need to replace differential and carrier bearings when you only need axle bearings & axles unless of course your old axle bearing surface is wasted, and at that point you may even have damage to the ring and pinion.

I run a repair shop for a large taxi fleet, and you won't believe what I've seen when it comes to Panther rear ends :eek:

[License2Bill]

At this point, I'm thinking I'm just going to bite the bullet, and do a full rebuild. A little piece of mind for the long run

Sent from inside the T.A.R.D.I.S.

[Marauderjack]

I am saying clutches and axles will be needed about every 100K, at which point you are $100 worth of carrier and pinion bearings from a full rebuild.

251,178 miles and still doing the :burn:

Original LSD clutch pack that tested fine at rebuild with 177K miles on it!!:bows:

BTW......I never do stationary burnouts......probably why mine has survived so long??:confused::beer:

[Vortech347]

All of the bearings do not need to be replaced. You can inspect the bearings while its apart. I've done this recal kit to 3 cars. My own 03' and 2 Vic's. All of them just needed the axle bearings on the outside changed, fluid flushed out and everything put back together.

[GreekGod]

You have had some very good advice, and some very bad advise in this thread.

A proper repair requires a proper cleaning of the entire axle housing. It is my opinion that it takes a complete disassembly and power wash to properly clean the housing. This assumes your lube was contaminated by a failed bearing, and it has bearing particles in it. There is an area under the pinion bearing that is very difficult to get to for cleaning.

I can, and have successfully set up a ring & pinion, but will not do it again because I have a local expert that has very reasonable prices, and is very good at it.

When rebuilding, always use a solid pinion bearing spacer kit, and never use the OEM type crush sleeve.

While the OEM differential is strong, it has the clutches that do wear, and are they fussy to properly set up. I would never recommend reusing it when you have it apart, because the Eaton Detroit Trutrac is a superior replacement.

Always replace the 28 spline axles with 31 spline shafts.

[lifespeed]

All of the bearings do not need to be replaced.

We could argue this point, but considering how rarely this needs to be done (and the price of bearings) it is false economy to not replace all the wear items at the time the axle is disassembled for service.

And, as mentioned, given that a catastrophically failed axle and bearing is often the impetus, a thorough cleaning to get out the shrapnel is essential. Again, requiring disassembly.

[Vortech347]

We could argue this point, but considering how rarely this needs to be done (and the price of bearings) it is false economy to not replace all the wear items at the time the axle is disassembled for service.

And, as mentioned, given that a catastrophically failed axle and bearing is often the impetus, a thorough cleaning to get out the shrapnel is essential. Again, requiring disassembly.

I said inspect to them. If they have issues then yes replace them. Usually all you need to do is clean out the housing. If the axle actually BREAKS then yes of course that is mandatory rebuild. I hate working on rear ends with broken axles. Most of them shatter like glass. But on the axle recal's I did there wasn't any damage to the carrier or pinion bearings. But keep in mind they were friend's cars and I knew the exact sound to look for so it was caught early.

[vegasmarauder]

Well, here's my .02 worth. If the seal leak is caught early enough and the bearing has not broken down, only got hot and damaged the seal, there may not be any metal in the oil. It's unlikely, but if the leak is spotted early enough, I have seen it. The seal goes because the bearing went and overheated the axle and bearing.

Once the rear is apart, you will see the metal dust in the oil and know its all through the rear. If not, you can just change the seal, bearing and axle and take a chance. I have seen cars fixed with just those parts go another 40K miles until the other side went. Which brings up, if you do one side and can afford the other, do it at the same time. It the TracLok passes the turning torque test, it is considered good and does not have to be touched. A competant rear end shop should know what the torque test specs are.

By the way, some outside shops to save money will get an offset bearing to run on the undamaged part of the axle to save the replacement axle cost. Not worth it in my opinion. Once an axle has been overheated it loses some of its strength and may fail later.

By the way, we got 232K miles on a early 03 MM rear. It was rebuilt at 10K miles under the recall for spalled axles, so I guess it was 222K miles then. It was just about the same price to change the tracLok out for an Eaton than to rebuild the Traclok. Outside shop charged $900 for all new parts except the ring and pinion. Most dealers will only use the Ford parts unless you know someone in the shop or the part is doscontinued and they can use an outside supplier then. And $1100 was exactly the amount it cost on one of our fleet CVPIs a few years ago. Needed everything as well.

[Chayton]

I noticed a blown axle seal on the passenger side of my 2003 300A (build date 10-4-02) the other day and haven't driven it since. Prior to this, I had been hearing a noise that varied in frequency as the speed of the vehicle changed.

I used the search function and was able to find the TSB number 03-05-05, but that apparently only applies to vehicles under 36,000 and something about a Ford recall 04S16, which states bad bearings and improper lubrication could lead to axle failure in Crown Vics and Town Cars. Dealers were instructed to install p/n 3W1Z-4A109-AA Rear Axle Bearing Service kit, which consists of new axles, bearings, seals and 75w-140 gear oil.

I was just quoted $1100 + tax to have this taken care of at a stealership, seems pretty steep to me. Has anybody ever had this work done without paying that much (meaning for free or just a deductible) out of pocket?

Can you describe this noise? I get this very slight high pitched whirr from my rear end at certain rpms. Not sure if I should be worried or not.

[Marauderjack]

Can you describe this noise? I get this very slight high pitched whirr from my rear end at certain rpms. Not sure if I should be worried or not.

High pitched whine is gears and pretty much normal!!:burnout: Mine whines a little cruising at 58-60 MPH......been doing it since new!!;)

A "wump....wump....wump" noise ain't good and is caused by bad axle bearings!!:eek::shake:

[Vortech347]

Almost every car will have slightly metallic matter in the gear oil Its usually material from the clutch packs. Manual transmissions are the same way.

[Marauderjack]

I use Ford magnetic plugs and filter magnets on all my stuff.....they catch ALL ferrous metal contaminants and that has to help!!:bows:

[License2Bill]

Can you describe this noise? I get this very slight high pitched whirr from my rear end at certain rpms. Not sure if I should be worried or not.


Mine was a definite wump wump wump sound. Frequency of noise directly correlated to vehicle's rate of travel.

[License2Bill]

$1200 later and the fools at the dealership couldn't even install the parts I told them to. They have it in writing the day I dropped the car off that I told them "If it needs one or both axles replaced, upgrade everything to 31 spline components from a 2005+ Panther vehicle. On the receipt, it shows they only replaced one axle. So I'm going back tomorrow to tell them to finish the job at no cost to me.

[Guittard22]

^^^
1200 bill what happen to 876 you told me ?

[jwibbity]

$1200 later and the fools at the dealership couldn't even install the parts I told them to. They have it in writing the day I dropped the car off that I told them "If it needs one or both axles replaced, upgrade everything to 31 spline components from a 2005+ Panther vehicle. On the receipt, it shows they only replaced one axle. So I'm going back tomorrow to tell them to finish the job at no cost to me.

never going to a stealership ever, not only do they overcharge but they always do the least amount of work possible....:mad2:

[License2Bill]

^^^
1200 bill what happen to 876 you told me ?

Tax, and then an hour and half of diagnostic work trouble shooting the air bag light. They called me this morning and said it could take an hour or it could take 5 hours. With labor at $100/hr I said just give me the car back. They also told me $750 to fix the air suspension issue which appears to be just the compressor at this point. Even if the compressor costs $400, there is no way it takes 3.5 hours to change it out.

[Vortech347]

LOL, and the tech on here wondered why I doubted his awesomeness.

Sorry to hear this happened. $1200 for one axle being swapped is an absolute rip off.

[License2Bill]

One axle was swapped, I told them to order it from Tasca or Tousley because of the better prices and they still charged me 329.12 for 1 axle. They also they did seals and bearings on both sides. Looking at the receipt, they also charged me for an abs speed sensor. They charged me for something that they broke. And on top of it all, now my front passenger speaker doesn't work.