Traction control

[Panther]

Over the weekend I put on the MM rims. All 4 are 255/45r18. I took off the 20s that I had on before. On the 20s I have 245/35 zr 20 front
265/35 zr 20 rear
Traction control started flashing with the marauder rims on but never flashed when the 20s were on. The car does have a tune so not sure if the tune can fix that or not. If I drive with it like that will it hurt something on the trans or the computer of the car. Or do I have to make sure I turn off traction control when driving. ???

sent from the road

[guspech750]

You need to keep the staggered size/stance of the tires. Or you will have to always turn off the traction control every time you drive your car with the same size tires.


Sent from The White House on taxpayers dimes.

DTR + 4.10's + Eaton swap = Wreeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

[Panther]

Ohhhh. What size would anyone suggest me changing to on the MMrims. Smaller or bigger.
(What size)

sent from the road

[Mr. Man]

I believe 3% is the minimal difference the tires need to be and max I think is about 6%. I don't believe you can fix the TC in a tune.

With what you have I'd try 245's up front.

A math genius will chime in and give you the stagger needed, but for now just turn off the TC button and you'll be fine.

[Panther]

Great thanks for the info .

always something never nothing.

sent from the road

[screamn]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43731

This is ^^^^ should help you out with tires sizes for the front and back to be within the range.

Thanks to member "RED"!

[Bluerauder]

Over the weekend I put on the MM rims. All 4 are 255/45r18.

OEM BFG stock difference between the fronts and rears is 5%. The generally accepted 3-6% range allows for wear variation.

OEM Fronts = 235/50/18 (27.75 inches tall and 740 revs per mile)
OEM Rears = 245/55/18 (28.61 inches tall and 705 revs per mile).

Your 255/45/18 combo is 27.04 inches tall and 746 revs per mile or slightly shorter than the OEM front size height.

You would have to upsize the rears to a 255/50/18 to get a height of 28.04 inches and 719 revs per mile. That combination would give a 3.7% difference front to rear and should make the Traction Control happy. Otherwise, you'll have to turn off TC everytime you start the car to use the 255/45/18 all-around.

A 255/55/18 would be too tall with the 255/45/18 fronts at 29.04 inches and 694 revs per mile. That would be a 7.5% difference in height and would exceed the 3-6% accepted range. You need a rear tire that is 1.0 to 1.5 inches taller than your fronts.

[Panther]

Thanks a lot for the information I will look into get two new rear tires.
But for now it will not hurt anything if I just turn it off when I drive?

sent from the road

[Bluerauder]

But for now it will not hurt anything if I just turn it off when I drive?

Nope. Lotsa folks here have opted for that ^^^^ solution. Of course, you won't have the benefit of TC if you need it. I can recall 3 times where it kicked in and possibly saved the car for me (at least it was helping out) ... all 3 times was wet and slippery.

[jwibbity]

Nope. Lotsa folks here have opted for that ^^^^ solution. Of course, you won't have the benefit of TC if you need it. I can recall 3 times where it kicked in and possibly saved the car for me (at least it was helping out) ... all 3 times was wet and slippery.

+ a gagillion , i would have wrecked a while ago had it not been for TC

[Panther]

Nope. Lotsa folks here have opted for that ^^^^ solution. Of course, you won't have the benefit of TC if you need it. I can recall 3 times where it kicked in and possibly saved the car for me (at least it was helping out) ... all 3 times was wet and slippery.

That is so true. I will be getting the tires changed so I could drive the car the right and safe way. I would car if something happens to my baby.

sent from the road

[MM2004]

This ->

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/Marion_Car_Show_2011_049_copy. jpg

;)

Mike.

[Panther]

Nice pic. Like it :) how did you get the gods head on the grill?

sent from the road

[Mr. Man]

Nope. Lotsa folks here have opted for that ^^^^ solution. Of course, you won't have the benefit of TC if you need it. I can recall 3 times where it kicked in and possibly saved the car for me (at least it was helping out) ... all 3 times was wet and slippery.

Not to diss you Charlie (well, yes I am :P) but TC is a waste. Drove cars for 20 years before ABS, TC and all these other nannies came into practice with nary an issue.

First time I ever experienced TC was in Ms.D's SB pulling out of a road onto another that had an incline to it. The road I was pulling out of was snow covered and the main road had some slush on it so all I was going to do was mash the gas and go but the TC kicked and all sorts of nonsense happened. Besides the dash lighting up like Coney Island, the car bogs down, steering got heavy, scared the crap out of me as there were cars coming from both directions, not close enough to hit me but still if the car stalled they would have been honking at me.

I know you are a good driver Charlie and you've been driving aaaaalllllooootttt longer than me and I'd bet you haven't had many, if any accidents. How many of the nannies in your SHO do you still have turned on?

The only nannie I will admit tolerating is the backup beep beep thing, but I could live w/o that too.

Friendly rant over :)

[Bluerauder]

Not to diss you Charlie (well, yes I am :P) but TC is a waste. Drove cars for 20 years before ABS, TC and all these other nannies came into practice with nary an issue.

First time I ever experienced TC was in Ms.D's SB pulling out of a road onto another that had an incline to it. The road I was pulling out of was snow covered and the main road had some slush on it so all I was going to do was mash the gas and go but the TC kicked and all sorts of nonsense happened. Besides the dash lighting up like Coney Island, the car bogs down, steering got heavy, scared the crap out of me as there were cars coming from both directions, not close enough to hit me but still if the car stalled they would have been honking at me.

I know you are a good driver Charlie and you've been driving aaaaalllllooootttt longer than me and I'd bet you haven't had many, if any accidents. How many of the nannies in your SHO do you still have turned on?

The only nannie I will admit tolerating is the backup beep beep thing, but I could live w/o that too.

Friendly rant over :)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++
B!tch, B!tch, B!tch … do you order your Ranch Dressing “on the side” too ?? :P

The so-called “Nannies” do not bother me in the least. When I want to play, I turn off the ones that may interfere with my fun. However, I do have an appreciation for the benefits that ABS and Traction Control provide. And I recognize the limits of those benefits and understand that even the best Nanny cannot defy the Laws of Physics.

We both grew up in the “pump your brakes” era. ABS does this much better and much faster than any person can. Most people think that maximum stopping power is achieved when the tires are skidding and dragging rubber on the road. This is not true. Skidding actually increases your stopping distance substantially depending on the road’s surface. Maximum braking power occurs just prior to the skid where the wheels are still turning and have not completely stopped and started to skid. ABS sensors can determine this much better than a driver who can only estimate when to release and reapply the brakes. And it can do it in real time much faster than a person. So the transition from the “pump your brakes” philosophy to the “slam on the brakes” and let ABS do its job will bring you to a stop much quicker than a person ever could and it maintains your ability to still steer the car. That is a good thing. It will not keep you from hitting an object that is closer than your minimum stopping distance.

Traction Control is a little more complicated. Yes, you can control a car without it and many of us have learned over time to do that. It is a seat of the pants feel for your car’s handling under different conditions and an understanding of the limits of performance of your vehicle. This is one of the reasons that I bought a Marauder. I like the feel of the car. I like the stiffer suspension and being able to “feel” the road. For me, it is quite easy to tell when I am losing traction or the back-end has broken free. In such cases, I immediately come off the accelerator and steer in the direction of the skid (rear wheel vehicle) until the vehicle begins to correct itself and come back into line. Normal braking at this time could actually make a bad situation worse.

In my three prior incidents, I thought that I was doing a pretty good job of bringing the car back under control. But, no matter how good the driver is, there is a lag between actually breaking traction and your “seats of the pants” realization that it is happening. Maybe this is only ½ second. Maybe a little more. By the time I started to react, the Traction Control was already on the job cutting power and applying braking selectively to individual wheels to restore traction and regain control. This is a good thing too. Could I have saved the car without TC ?? Probably …. Maybe. Did the TC help ?? Definitely, Yes.

Again, there are limits to what the TC can reasonably do. Once you are in a slide and the back-end is coming around to do a 180* or 360*, the TC will work its butt off to help, but it can’t perform miracles if there are nearby objects to hit.

Your explanation of the snow-slush episode above leads me to believe that you don’t really understand the TC. In those conditions, TC should have probably been turned off anyway until you cleared the snow covered street. “Mashing” the gas while your rear wheels were still on the snow cover should have been a clue that you were gonna spin the tires. The reaction of the TC was just telling you that you were not doing something right. It cut power and applied brakes to get your attention. The severity of the TC response was proportional to the severity of the driver error. Without that help you probably would have probably still been spinning tires wildly in the middle of the intersection when the on-coming traffic arrived.

BTW -- I have been driving since 1966 or a little more than 47 years. In that time, I have had two accidents. In both cases, I was hit in the rear while stopped for traffic. Once in Germany in 1988 and again last June 2013 here in Virginia with the SHO.

As I said earlier, the “Nannies” don’t really bother me. I know when to turn them off when it is play time. During normal driving, I just leave them all on all the time. They are there to help and I understand this. On the SHO, I have ABS, TCS, Collision Warning, Adaptive Cruise Control, Seat belt warning (I have been using seatbelts since 1975), blindspot monitor, rear sensors and rear camera. Why would I turn this stuff off unless I was gonna deliberately do some frisky stuff on a controlled and open course?? :D

[Mr. Man]

Blue cheese on the side and I tell the server 'Don't be cheap'. :P

The Marauder is the second car we ever had that had nannies. We had a 2000 CV that I rarely drove. I think what annoyed me most was the sudden implementation of the car taking control. Never gave any thought to turning anything off because at that time I wasn't even thinking about nannies. I was probably thinking about a 'Duke boys' moment was about to occur when out of nowhere the car says NO!.

You seem to be aware of what to do when the car takes over, I'm sure most people don't. Like with ABS as you mentioned. Bet 99% of the people who apply the brakes in sufficient force to activate it don't realize they can still steer and end up hitting whatever they would have hit w/o ABS anyway.

I know the nannies are here to stay. As long as I can turn most of them off I'll be happyish. Don't even get me started on the OnStar nannie Govt spying on me stuff.

[Bluerauder]

You seem to be aware of what to do when the car takes over, I'm sure most people don't.

If you are doing it right and reacting properly to the situation, you don't even notice that the ABS or the TC are helping. If TC takes over control and is fighting you, it is probably trying to tell the driver something about what he is doing. :P

[Mr. Man]

If you are doing it right and reacting properly to the situation, you don't even notice that the ABS or the TC are helping. If TC takes over control and is fighting you, it is probably trying to tell the driver something about what he is doing. :P
OHHHH Daaad :D;)

[mariodawg]

I put 235/55R-17s on 10-hole black steelies on all four corners of my '04 MM. My experience is the TC only kicks in at around 45mph-ish, depending on where the gas pedal is (more throttle; lower mph & it kicks in). So I turn it off all the time...unless I am driving on slick roads (snow/ice). In that case, I don't need to go fast anyway, so I can leave the TC on the whole time and it's no problem: the TC works as advertised! You just have to turn it off if you plan on driving over 45mph. It doesn't bother me any now that I know i have the best of both worlds...and everyone thinks I'm a cop, so its quite amazing how much more behaving folks driving around me are (AND polite)!!! :)

[mariodawg]

Whatcha know; it snowed last night. We got only about 1/8-1/4", but it blanketed everything. I had traction control the whole time on the slippery and less well-driven roads with speed limits from 25-45mph. Traction control (and abs) came on a couple of times and it made acceleration from stop signs easier. As i got closer to the Interstate, the roads got better, and I turned tc off on the on-ramp. Once I got to my exit and slowed down, I turned tc back on, and sure enough the roads immediately got bad again...and it helped once again. Finally of course, when I got to work and had lots of snowy parking lot to myself, I had a little bit of fun accelerating too hard for conditions and letting my traction control rein me in. No, I didn't do doughnuts; I have to act professional in case someone was watching. (Otherwise....)

[mariodawg]

Oh yeah...forgot to mention had I not been on my Firestone Firehawk GT Pursuit tires, my tc would have been MUCH busier this morning!