Seats worn out after 10 years?

[lifespeed]

Why am I posting about seats in the suspension forum? Well, seats are suspension for your butt. The car may be well-damped and under control, but the seat springs can do the fast bounce while the car is perfectly smooth.

I recall driving a '97 Crown Vic that I had completely rebuilt, including the suspension. I finally got around to having the seats rebuilt with new foam and vinyl. The guy who did it seemed competent and said something about fixing the springs as well.

The difference was mind-blowing. The car actually felt like it had new suspension. The ride was soooo much smoother. Yet the suspension was still the same rebuilt setup with Edelbrock shocks. Nothing had changed in the chassis at all.

Am I losing my mind? Am I annoyed with the bouncy ride because my seat springs and/or foam are worn out after 10 years? I swear the chassis itself is not bouncing, it is the seat.

[88LTDCV351]

Why I was thinking something similar just recently. I seem to remember my seat being very comfortable when I first got the car. Now after many years, the driver seat is not so comfortable on trips or at least not as comfortable as I used to remember. I wonder if I sit in the passenger seat for a change on a long trip, if the seat feels more plush (passenger seat sees less use).

[lifespeed]

One other thing I should mention; I have modified the suspension slightly. I have stiffer springs up front and Penske coilovers. In the rear I have tried combinations of Penske shocks and Marauder air springs as well as KYB Grand Marquis shocks and Grand Marquis air springs.

I have definitely increased the suspension's natural frequency, and it is firmer. But it is not harsh and it does not bounce. Perhaps I am provoking the seat springs into oscillation with the stiffened ride. Maybe the seats were designed with softness in mind, and a stiff suspension causes my dead weight to move through the seat travel?

Or maybe they are just worn out and the new suspension has not entirely cured the ride quality like I expected. Ride quality was not good with the old suspension either.

I think I should not forget the lesson of new seats in the old Crown Vic.

[babbage]

You could always get this with 8 inches of air travel! How tall are you? (j/k)

http://fleetowner.com/site-files/fleetowner.com/files/uploads/2010/01/bose-inset-ill-md.gif

If you feel your seat needs to move more your suspension is probably too harsh.

[Baaad GN]

One major cause is BIG BUTT'S :-)

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

One major cause is BIG BUTT'S :-)

Was just about to say lol... lose some weight maybe? :dunno:

[whitey]

Lifespeed, i think youre a little anal on the whole suspension thing.....although you are the man to talk to about suspension. I mean this in a good way.

[lifespeed]

If you feel your seat needs to move more your suspension is probably too harsh.

The opposite appears to be the case. The seat bottom moves to much and squeaks while it does it. I think it needs stiffer springs and foam.

[lifespeed]

One major cause is BIG BUTT'S :-)


Was just about to say lol... lose some weight maybe? :dunno:

LOL. Well, that may be the obvious comment and I do weigh 210 lbs, so perhaps some truth to that. But the wife weighs a lot less than me and she isn't too thrilled with the current setup either.

[lifespeed]

Lifespeed, i think youre a little anal on the whole suspension thing.....although you are the man to talk to about suspension. I mean this in a good way.

It might appear that way. All I can say is "drive a mile in my car". It isn't right. If my wife and the guy I car pool with both notice it, is the answer still that I am anal about the suspension, or is there really something not right? Like I said, I think the suspension is actually OK, although definitely more performance-oriented than stock.

As I drive down the road and hit bumps (San Jose freeways are notorious for this) I bounce up and down in the seat, my back sliding on the backrest. I can hear the sound my shirt makes sliding against the leather and the squeaking of the seat springs moving.

I suppose for the 95% of you who have a relatively stock setup this sounds kind of weird. But it is real enough for me. And I can assure you that seats do wear out over time. Or maybe in my case just inappropriate for the revised suspension.

How many of you have ever had a seat properly rebuilt and experienced the before/after?

[JoeBoomz]

Try riding in the passenger seat (obviously get someone else to drive). Is it any different? It should have less wear.

[lifespeed]

Try riding in the passenger seat (obviously get someone else to drive). Is it any different? It should have less wear.

Yes, that was the obvious thing to check. The passenger seat is a little better, but still a problem. Although foam does break down just with age and temperature cycling.

This made me believe that the seat might just be designed a little too soft to work well with stiffer suspension. I plan to try this from the rear seat, which may be very different construction. Could be informative.

[Mr. Man]

Your seat is most likely worn from 10+ years of use but if you sat in the passenger seat and felt little difference I doubt the seat is the issue. Keep in mind the designers of the seat need to cover a broad spectrum of occupiers, from the 60lb kid to the 300lb people like me and make the seat reletively comfortable for all. Rebuilding the seat will give you more support and you could use a different material in the center sections to aid in anti-lateral movement when cornering but that is still not going to help your issue.

What tires did you end up using?

More research might be needed to solve this issue as 4300lb cars usually aren't expected to handle like Triumph's. I might suggest looking into other car makers like Mercedes to see if 1. they ever used a solid rear axle and 2. what they used to spring their large cars.

[Bigdogjim]

1- How many miles on the marauder?

2- Is it your DD or weekend car?

3- Are you a "big guy"?

My seat is OK after 11 years and 75K me I am 6'6" & 375 lbs:)

Might be that I compress the springs when I sit in the car:lol:

I have driven to Texas, In., Ky., Mi., Fl., with no issues, great ride after 11 years. I did switch the sway bars and control arms.

[Bigdogjim]

Your seat is most likely worn from 10+ years of use but if you sat in the passenger seat and felt little difference I doubt the seat is the issue. Keep in mind the designers of the seat need to cover a broad spectrum of occupiers, from the 60lb kid to the 300lb people like me :lol:and make the seat reletively comfortable for all. Rebuilding the seat will give you more support and you could use a different material in the center sections to aid in anti-lateral movement when cornering but that is still not going to help your issue.

What tires did you end up using?

More research might be needed to solve this issue as 4300lb cars usually aren't expected to handle like Triumph's. I might suggest looking into other car makers like Mercedes to see if 1. they ever used a solid rear axle and 2. what they used to spring their large cars.

300lb people like me? :lol:

[lifespeed]

What tires did you end up using?

More research might be needed to solve this issue as 4300lb cars usually aren't expected to handle like Triumph's. I might suggest looking into other car makers like Mercedes to see if 1. they ever used a solid rear axle and 2. what they used to spring their large cars.

I still have the merely-adequate Firestone wide ovals. It is tough to justify replacement when they have significant life left. I'll be using something stickier when the time comes, probably BFG or Nitto.

I read a lot of comments about these cars not being made for handling. Compared to a Ferrari F40 or a Corvette, well, they might not keep up. But I own this car because I grew up driving Chevelles and GTOs (also full frame, solid axle rear with trailing arms) and like the way they drive. I have plenty of experience proving this chassis type is perfectly capable of good handling. My Marauder handles very well, and rides pretty good too. Of course the solid axle gives up some ride quality to an IRS rear, but still just fine for what it is.

I've just come to realize that most of the "busy" movement happening as I'm driving down the rippled SF bay area freeways is in the seat springs and foam.

[lifespeed]

1- How many miles on the marauder?
2- Is it your DD or weekend car?
3- Are you a "big guy"?
My seat is OK after 11 years and 75K me I am 6'6" & 375 lbs:)
Might be that I compress the springs when I sit in the car:lol:
I have driven to Texas, In., Ky., Mi., Fl., with no issues, great ride after 11 years. I did switch the sway bars and control arms.

It has 110K miles, driven about 4 days a week. Pretty much a DD. I weigh 210 lbs, but lighter front seat passengers notice the ride is not optimal.

One thing I think is key here is every sprung system has a "natural frequency". This includes car suspension and seats. My car's suspension has had it's natural frequency increased slightly through stiffer springs and shocks. I am beginning to think this is not that compatible with the soft Marauder seats.

I notice I can reach over to the passenger seat and push the cushion down more than 1" just using my hand. Imagine a stiffer-suspensioned Marauder making quick (but well-damped) up and down motions traveling at speed down an uneven highway. Much of the motion is soaked up in the suspension, but some is still transmitted through to the frame and seats. The soft seat springs then try to push up on my 200+ lbs of dead weight, compressing them significantly. They then recover to their original position and rebound me up off the seat.

[Mr. Man]

Check with Sparco or Recaro tech and see if they can shed any light on your theory. Also check with a good upholstery mechanic to see if stiffer foam might help.

[Ms. Denmark]

[QUOTE=lifespeed;1361111]
________________

[lifespeed]

Check with Sparco or Recaro tech and see if they can shed any light on your theory. Also check with a good upholstery mechanic to see if stiffer foam might help.

I spoke with a couple experienced upholsterers and will be driving over to see one of them tomorrow. I'll take him out for a ride and see what he thinks. The suggestion to talk to a seat manufacturer is a good one.

[Vortech347]

Mine show a little bit of wear. Usually after a good cleaning they come back nicely though. I've been really careful that my gun doesn't hurt the side bolster. (I carry daily) Meguires Gold Glass Leather cleaner is bomb diggity.

[lifespeed]

Wow, hadn't thought of that for years but some of them truly are just that....rippled. Thanks for the memory! ;)

San Jose's highway 87 is especially bad. If you want to confirm your suspension (or seats) are perfect, this highway will give you the unvarnished truth. I think it is caused by a combination of the underlying adobe soil and sloppy work by the contractor who built it.

[jimlam56]

The Marauder's driver's seat is not the best for performance driving.
You slide all over the place.

The other end of the spectrum is my 2013 Focus ST.
The Recaro seats are too small for my butt (5'11,200) and become uncomfortable on rides over 20 miles.
But they sure are fun to Autocross...

[lifespeed]

I went to see the upholsterer who rebuilt my '97 Crown Vic seats. He knows his stuff.

I'll be getting new leather bottoms, quality HD60 foam thicker than the factory setup, increased bolstering on the sides of the seat, a canvas membrane over the spring/wire hammock, and additional wires woven through the hammock to stabilize it. Seat backs will remain original for now. They don't have much wear anyway.

I think I'm correct on this issue, but we will see. Not like the seats didn't need attention at some point anyway. The car goes in the week of the 17th.

[clmrt]

What'll the bill come to? I hate the lack of support in this thing and the added bolstering is a great idea.

[lifespeed]

What'll the bill come to? I hate the lack of support in this thing and the added bolstering is a great idea.

$1100 for the pair.

[burt ragio]

When it comes time I would not waste the money on rebuild of old oem seats. In a rear end collision the seat backs break. The foam & fit is well for the cost of rebuild old seats I would put the coin in a pair of Recaro Orthoped seats. Check out their web page.

[lifespeed]

When it comes time I would not waste the money on rebuild of old oem seats. In a rear end collision the seat backs break. The foam & fit is well for the cost of rebuild old seats I would put the coin in a pair of Recaro Orthoped seats. Check out their web page.

Nice, and priced to match! Still waiting on the upholsterer, will update with pics and driving impressions soon I hope.

[GreekGod]

My 2003 MM now has 85K+ miles, and it's been my daily driver since purchased with 13K. My 2000 Crown Vic Police Interceptor has over 155K, with the "police" (apparently) original seats.

Our French stitched seats, even with adjustable lumbar support, are not as comfy as the old PI seats I ride on. I can ride all day with the PI, and have absolutely no seating discomfort. The MM has never felt comfortable, after even just one hour of driving.

=========

[lifespeed]

I am having a set of 20% stiffer seat springs made up. If any of you want a set (6 per seat) let me know and I'll order extra. Probably in the $50 range, less if a few people place an order.

The upholster (finally!) fit me into his schedule and took a ride in the car. He agrees there is too much give in the hammock.

[burt ragio]

Pics of new finished seats ?
How do you like them ?

[lifespeed]

Pics of new finished seats ?
How do you like them ?

Not yet, in two weeks.

[lifespeed]

Finally got the seats back. They feel firmer and better damped. Could be additional thickness of HD60 and HD45 quality foam, stiffer springs supporting the "hammock", webbing orthogonal wires through the hammock to tie it together, or the damping effect of the heavy canvass membrane stretched over the base. I should have some pictures of the contruction process shortly, but for now the finished product photos will do.

The car definitely rides better without the OEM trampoline seat. The firm but well-damped ride no longer bounces me out of my seat. Which is a good thing, as my chrome dome is now 1" closer to the headliner :(

I had custom-made seat tension springs made for this job, as I was suspicious of the "give" in the factory setup. Seems it was a good idea, I'll sell a set of upgraded seat springs to any prospective Marauder reupholster cheap!

http://home.comcast.net/~claybu/pics/marauder/Marauder_seats_IMG_9673.jpghtt p://www.claybuccellato.com/pictures/Marauder_seats/IMG_9675.jpg

http://www.claybuccellato.com/pictures/Marauder_seats/IMG_9673.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~claybu/pics/marauder/Marauder_seats_IMG_9675.jpg

[Spectragod]

Finally got the seats back. They feel firmer and better damped. Could be additional thickness of HD60 and HD45 quality foam, stiffer springs supporting the "hammock", webbing orthogonal wires through the hammock to tie it together, or the damping effect of the heavy canvass membrane stretched over the base. I should have some pictures of the contruction process shortly, but for now the finished product photos will do.

The car definitely rides better without the OEM trampoline seat. The firm but well-damped ride no longer bounces me out of my seat. Which is a good thing, as my chrome dome is now 1" closer to the headliner :(

I had custom-made seat tension springs made for this job, as I was suspicious of the "give" in the factory setup. Seems it was a good idea, I'll sell a set of upgraded seat springs to any prospective Marauder reupholster cheap!

http://home.comcast.net/~claybu/pics/marauder/Marauder_seats_IMG_9673.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~claybu/pics/marauder/Marauder_seats_IMG_9674.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~claybu/pics/marauder/Marauder_seats_IMG_9675.jpg

Is it an optical illusion or is your base and back different colors?

[RubberCtyRauder]

Is it an optical illusion or is your base and back different colors?

I think it is because the bottom seat is new foam etc and new leather while the backs are still the original and are patina'd

[Vortech347]

Because I'm a big guy at 250 I'm harder on seats than I want to be. The ass portion of my driver seat is starting to show stretching at one of the stitch seams. I'm not to thrilled about that.

[lifespeed]

Because I'm a big guy at 250 I'm harder on seats than I want to be. The ass portion of my driver seat is starting to show stretching at one of the stitch seams. I'm not to thrilled about that.

I've got a bunch of seat springs (minimum order quantity) that are 24% stiffer than stock. Together with high-quality, dense foam and a skilled upholsterer, the difference is dramatic.

You need quantity 12 for both seats, I'll sell sets for $25 each. Cheaper than stock.

[lifespeed]

I think it is because the bottom seat is new foam etc and new leather while the backs are still the original and are patina'd

Yes, the seat backs are still original. Unfortunately this kind of work is expensive, and I prioritized the cushions which were causing a great deal of discomfort due to wear and stiffer suspension. The seat backs, while not as pretty as the new lowers, do not cause issues with comfort and ride quality. Not to mention special break-away thread and airbags.

I figure 2 - 3 more years and I'll do the rest of the interior.

[mrjones]

[QUOTE=jimlam56;1361166]The Marauder's driver's seat is not the best for performance driving.
You slide all over the place.

That's not a problem for all of us. My butt is held in place nicely by the console and the door panel!

[babbage]

Yes, the seat backs are still original. Unfortunately this kind of work is expensive, and I prioritized the cushions which were causing a great deal of discomfort due to wear and stiffer suspension. The seat backs, while not as pretty as the new lowers, do not cause issues with comfort and ride quality. Not to mention special break-away thread and airbags.

I figure 2 - 3 more years and I'll do the rest of the interior.

Lower seat looks great, nice job.
Try a Mr. Clean sponge on the seatbacks, after a good cleaning they will be much closer in color.

[GreekGod]

... Try a Mr. Clean sponge ...

Did you mean a Mr Clean Magic Eraser? Or: Mr. Clean Magic Eraser + Sponge?

http://m.mrclean.com/shop-and-learn/magic-eraser

======================

[GODFATHER]

Seen these on eBay just thought i would post them hope this is the right place


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-Marauder-Leather-Seat-Set-NICE-OEM-LKQ-/360935861018?pt=Motors_Car_Tru ck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5409742b1a&vxp=mtr

[babbage]

Did you mean a Mr Clean Magic Eraser? Or: Mr. Clean Magic Eraser + Sponge?



http://m.mrclean.com/shop-and-learn/magic-eraser



======================


I think it's the magic eraser plus sponge combo. others with light Flint interior have used it with great results I was afraid to use it on dark charcoal however...

[Mr. Man]

Did you mean a Mr Clean Magic Eraser? Or: Mr. Clean Magic Eraser + Sponge?

http://m.mrclean.com/shop-and-learn/magic-eraser

======================I guess this is a follow up post to CBT's OP. Casey posts about mid way down on the first page. This is what I was thinking about when I posted in this thread.

Not sure if Casey lurks here but you could try reaching out to him. Perhaps someone knows how to get in touch with him.

Of course it goes w/o saying if you try the Magic Eraser try it in an inconspicuous spot first.:)


http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79653&highlight=magic+eraser

Here's the OP. Pics on page two. Hope this helps

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65238&highlight=magic+eraser

[lifespeed]

Very impressive cleaning and conditioning results. I will try it.