Engine ticking/tapping noise recording

[junehhan]

Hey guys, it appears that we've got at least 2 and maybe 3 different types of unusual noises that people are getting from their engine. If i'm correct, some are getting a ticking noise that increases with rpms. Others appear to be getting a tapping type noise that also appears to increase in rpms as well, and some are getting a rattling type of noise. Now we know that these noises are being caused either by a bad valve guide, or loose cam bolts(can anyone go more into detail on this?).

What I did tonight, is make a recording on camcorder of my engine making a tapping noise at idle. It only appears after the engine has completely warmed up, so i'm not as concerned since I believe people with the bad valve guides had a ticking/tapping regardless of engine temperature. If anyone is interested in listening to it, I will have it converted to a windows media player format next weekend when i'm up at my friend's house, since my computer isn't equipped for that type of stuff. I've got 7300 miles now.........

[nexstar7]

this is a on going thing. WILL LFM COME UP TO BAT?. i think we should make up a national patition as to the problems at hand before most of our warranties expire. :mad:

[junehhan]

When I finally get it converted over to windows media player format next weekend, i'm going to put it up for people to download. From there, people will be able to compare to see whether it's the same noise, or maybe different. Perhaps those who had ticking issues resolved by their dealerships can also listen and see whether it was the same type of noise.

[MERCMAN]

Got my drivers side head replaced, L/M put up no fight, when my service tech called them(after retorqing the cam-bolts) they said replace the whole head.
attached is a pic of the offending head and the intake

BTW, are the deposits "normal" for 6k miles????

[TripleTransAm]

Hard to tell from the pic, but if the guides were allowing oil to seep past, then that's what those would be. Have a look at the backside of the intake valves, might not be pretty. Did you have any smoky startups?

[MERCMAN]

Hard to tell from the pic, but if the guides were allowing oil to seep past, then that's what those would be. Have a look at the backside of the intake valves, might not be pretty. Did you have any smoky startups?

Never had a smoky startup, I am not much of a "wrench" just snapped those pics at the dealership yesterday when I went in to paint my calipers, I assume the exhaust valves are the ones with the heaviest deposits on them?

[TripleTransAm]

No, in your photo, the exhaust valves look cleaner, it's the intakes that look somewhat caked up (again, hard to see the texture of the deposits in the photo).

I posted some photos of the combustion chamber in the 'my ticking Marauder' thread a while back... from what I recall, it was the exhaust valves that were the worst looking, the intakes were actually kind of clean, I think. (working on low amount of sleep today, brain is not at 13% operational capacity like it usually is)

Better yet, did you take any photos of the piston tops?

[MERCMAN]

as a matter of fact,,, YES!!

[TripleTransAm]

Nerd. ;)

j/k...
Actually, again I can't make out the deposit pattern on the pistons, but are they mostly to the center of the piston tops in a sort of ")(" pattern? If so this would indicate oil consumption from up top, otherwise I think you'd have a circular pattern around the outside of the pistons or possibly spread evenly across the pistons.

I noticed in your pic what seems like a threaded mounting location for the second knock sensor! ;)

By the way, what's with all the pink under the hood? You going soft on us?

[MERCMAN]

Me?? going soft?? Nah, the wrench covered up the open engine while I was spray painting the calipers, perhaps he didn't trust my accuracy with the spray!! The pistons all looked real clean IMHO, I was just curious as to the deposits on the valves, I only burn BP or Marathon Premium and they are SUPPOSED to have a cleaning agent in them.

Thanks for your help!! :up:

[TripleTransAm]

I wouldn't worry about it... maybe left over from the rich-running original programming? (I noticed your 6-02 build date).

[MERCMAN]

I wouldn't worry about it... maybe left over from the rich-running original programming? (I noticed your 6-02 build date).

Guess I need to follow Mac's advice,, run the ****z out of it:)

[TripleTransAm]

Wouldn't hurt... I don't think I drive my car very hard at all on the average, and my chambers were clean, with the exception of the valves in question, and the localized deposits on the affected cylinders' pistons. I think you're doing the right thing by having this looked at, beating the crap out of an engine to mask another problem doesn't seem like the right thing to do. And on the flip side you shouldn't be obliged to hold back from running the car hard now and again in fear of having something fail.

Looking forward to hearing your seat-of-the-pants impressions after the work is done. My car seemed a little more responsive within a week or two of the work being completed.

[MERCMAN]

Has the cooling problem been addressed in the new version of the head?

[tta197]

Mercman, let me know how everything turns out. Did the dealership give you a loaner for this, I assume they had the car for several days/weeks? Nicholas.

[MERCMAN]

Mercman, let me know how everything turns out. Did the dealership give you a loaner for this, I assume they had the car for several days/weeks? Nicholas.

Yes, they ALWAYS give me a loaner, lucky me, this time it is the mighty Sable. I am hoping that the head arrives today, but with FOMOCO, who knows!!

[1 BAD 03 MM]

Lincoln Mercury Mazda of Olympia received my new cylinder head on Friday, scheduled to take her in on Wedensday morning, and says they can get it back to me by Friday evening. I have a Marauder meet to go to on Saturday, so, if they can't get it back to me b4 then I'll keep the car till next week.

If they can truly get it back to me in two days, I'll be amazed. :eek: I would definetly get to know my tech better, buy him :beer: and pick his brain for info on these 4.6L DOHC beasts. (Cause obviously if he can pull that one off, he's good and knows WTF he's doing.)

[MERCMAN]

Gaskets arrived today,, keeping my fingers crossed for the head to arrive tomorrow.

[SergntMac]

Has the cooling problem been addressed in the new version of the head?
No.

Okay...There is only one answer here, which is my posted "No," but I cannot post my one word-three lettered answer without adding more text, so, I wrote this really long sentence to y'all just so I could "just say no" and get that message back to y'all reading this thread, so, y'all would know that the correct answer to the question posted by mercman is "no," but I couldn't just post my "no" to his question because "no" is too short of an answer here anymore.

Got that?

Whew...

[junehhan]

Now i'm confused......

I thought the entire point of the new heads were that it addressed the cooling problem if you had the bad heads on your engine.

[TripleTransAm]

I'm also curious as to what was changed on the new head(s)... since I have the original 'revised' head and not the latest part number, I am obviously very interested in the differences between each revision. My technician is looking into it.

If Sarge is right and the new heads have no improved cooling ability, then the only upgrade is in the valve guides themselves.
(mind you, I noticed a snappier bottom end response after the upgrade, which I thought might be attributed to better cooling in that head and less propensity to pre-ignite, hence less spark retard and better bottom end performance... *shrug* I dunno)

[junehhan]

I think i'm going to have the dealer look at my heads again, because for the first time, I actually heard the motor tapping after I first started the motor. Normally, it's only been tapping from the driver side right after it's fully warmed up, so this is new since now I hear it when the engine is completely cold. The only problem, is i've been to the dealership twice, and they keep telling me that this is normal noise on the motor. When asked why I only hear it from the driver side and not the passenger side, I get some sort of jibberish about it. For the time being, i'll just wait since if it's a bad set of heads, it's going to get worse. My car is also not consuming any oil either, and doesn't smoke. Since my car is an 04, maybe it's just the cam bolts needing to be tightened? In another month or so, i'll take it to the dealership again and we'll find out. One thing for sure, is that if it is due to a bad set of heads on my motor, I would be the first 04 with a bad set of heads......

[MERCMAN]

I would suggest finding one of our "brothers" with an '04 and take him(her) with you to the dealer, fire them both up and let him hear the difference between the 2. Of course, if your luck is anything like mine, it won't do it when the wrench is there:(

[SergntMac]

I'm also curious as to what was changed on the new head(s)... since I have the original 'revised' head and not the latest part number, I am obviously very interested in the differences between each revision. My technician is looking into it.

If Sarge is right and the new heads have no improved cooling ability, then the only upgrade is in the valve guides themselves.
(mind you, I noticed a snappier bottom end response after the upgrade, which I thought might be attributed to better cooling in that head and less propensity to pre-ignite, hence less spark retard and better bottom end performance... *shrug* I dunno)
I'm speculating here, and it's possible nothing has changed, /Steve, except numbers.

Seems to me that FMC and L/M change part numbers when the same part is used in diferent applications. There are engineering part numbers, assembly part numbers, and service part numbers. When it comes to replacement part numbers, there's the added factor of the part itself being a replacement part, i.e. bare head for bare head, or, a modular repair kit, as we saw with the rear axle repair kit, where axles, bearing and so on were ordered and installed under one part number. Ordering one part number could deliver an assembly, i.e. a built head with valves and springs in place.

I'm going to speculate a tad more, and suggest that until the first head was replaced, a repair part number was not in place, and L/M had to reach out to find the correct replacement part among 8 years of 4.6L DOHC production. Once it was found, a L/M part number was added to bring that part into L/M parts books.

/Steve, do you know if your replacement head was bare or built? Mercman, can you dig up some part numbers for comparasion? Anyone else out there with a new head on the driver's side that can post part numbers? Just for comparasion, I'd like to see what's up myself.

As long as I'm sticking my .02C into this here, I'll add that IMHO, the cooling improvements are external to the head, and you should be able to see that with the naked eye. The parts are present in some other 4.6L DOHC applications, but not all, and not the MM.

Ummm...Anyone know why our coolant was switched from green to gold? Can't help wondering if this is another clue...

[SergntMac]

Ummm...Anyone know why our coolant was switched from green to gold? Can't help wondering if this is another clue...
Nevermind...Found it myself, here...

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9237

[Thomas C Potter]

I'm not able to be here at MM.net all the time, and since some idiot is bound to ask, let me!! I read into this that the cooling passages have potentially changed, and that early valve guides are suspect. Are these 2 assumptions correct, and at what build date does this apply to??

TP Blue 03, build date 1/13/03

[MERCMAN]

Called parts, my new head arrived today :up: Mac the part # is 2C5Z6049GA The parts manager said there is a listing for an updated "newer" if you will, but that one is not available yet. Mine is a "built" head. While I have your attention here Mac, any special instructions about running with a new head? Any break in required?

[Constable]

GA, huh? As far as my investigations show, that is the current part # for a complete left head (head, valvetrain, cams) for a 2003 Cobra.

2C5Z-6049-DA is the complete assembly for a 2003 'Rauder.
2C5Z-6049-EA is the bare head for the 'Rauder.

My tech ordered me a bare head, new valvetrain, and several other "just in case" parts. I dropped it off this morning and am told that it'll be finished tomorrow afternoon. I read somewhere else here that the newest revision was the -HA casting. Anyone have any input?

Anyone know how to de-code the part numbers for the heads so we know what exactly we're looking at with all the -DA's and -HA's and stuff?

[MERCMAN]

GA, huh? As far as my investigations show, that is the current part # for a complete left head (head, valvetrain, cams) for a 2003 Cobra.

2C5Z-6049-DA is the complete assembly for a 2003 'Rauder.
2C5Z-6049-EA is the bare head for the 'Rauder.

My tech ordered me a bare head, new valvetrain, and several other "just in case" parts. I dropped it off this morning and am told that it'll be finished tomorrow afternoon. I read somewhere else here that the newest revision was the -HA casting. Anyone have any input?

Anyone know how to de-code the part numbers for the heads so we know what exactly we're looking at with all the -DA's and -HA's and stuff?



Aren't the motors the same(then by default the heads) as the Cobras?

[TripleTransAm]

My head (the one intended for the car! ;) ) arrived fully assembled.

[Fourth Horseman]

I wouldn't worry about it... maybe left over from the rich-running original programming? (I noticed your 6-02 build date).

Would that be because of the program they had loaded on the PCM? I'm assuming they've revised that since initial production.

[TripleTransAm]

I saw the build date on his car, and then suddenly remembered the problems folks had with the early PCM calibrations. But then I noticed he's been reflashed by Jerry. How long ago, I don't know, but I wonder if it's something that can leave behind long term deposits if the car ran a number of months on the older 'chugging' code?

[MERCMAN]

I saw the build date on his car, and then suddenly remembered the problems folks had with the early PCM calibrations. But then I noticed he's been reflashed by Jerry. How long ago, I don't know, but I wonder if it's something that can leave behind long term deposits if the car ran a number of months on the older 'chugging' code?

I brought the Black Beauty home on April 17th, had it dyno-tuned August 4th in Chicago. I had less than 3000 miles on it then. After having talked this over with someone who knows, I was informed that the deposits on the valves were "normal" for the way I drive my car. I need to blow the carbon out of it more than I have in the past. The pistons looked A-OK and the deposits on the valves will burn off if I just run it harder on the occasions when I get it out. I only have 6k on it now, so i guess I will just have to make sure that when I drive it, that keep the rpm's up for a while to keep the motor running clean:) Sure hope the LEO's understand :lol:

[SergntMac]

GA, huh? As far as my investigations show, that is the current part # for a complete left head (head, valvetrain, cams) for a 2003 Cobra.

2C5Z-6049-DA is the complete assembly for a 2003 'Rauder.
2C5Z-6049-EA is the bare head for the 'Rauder.

My tech ordered me a bare head, new valvetrain, and several other "just in case" parts. I dropped it off this morning and am told that it'll be finished tomorrow afternoon. I read somewhere else here that the newest revision was the -HA casting. Anyone have any input?

Anyone know how to de-code the part numbers for the heads so we know what exactly we're looking at with all the -DA's and -HA's and stuff?
I'm speculating again here, Tom, but I firmly believe (from my experience in tracking down other parts, like wiring harnesses and knock sensors) that the suffix indicates the application the part can be used in. In your example, DA and EA extensions are listed as Marauder parts, one head is bare and the other is populated with additional parts, ala a "repair kit."

The same head casting, but for use in a '03 Mach I, may (I'm guessing now) end in BB for a bare head, and EB for a populated head. I haven't a list of all these possibilities, so, I can't be more sure. However, if you have ever decoded a VIN on a retagged stolen car, I think you get what I'm pointing at.

The bare head castings are most likely identical for all 4V heads, how and where these castings are employed, changes their part numbers...IMHO.

[TripleTransAm]

Mercman, I honestly think you'll be okay. The worst thing we can do as automotive enthusiasts is become paranoid about the way we drive our cars. There is NO way a company like Mercury (Ford, etc. insert your manufacturer of choice here) can survive in the federal-agency-supervised world we live in by selling a car that is fragile to the point where the driving style can kill it. This is a mass-produced car... mass produced cars have to cater to the 98% of the drivers out there that will need a car to get from point A to point B without worrying about whether they went WOT enough or whether they are forming deposits in their cylinders.

I made that mistake a few years ago with my GTA... I got so paranoid and anal about the days I took my car out and how I drove it... I recall the SHEER PANIC I'd feel the moment I saw a rain cloud form above... SHEER TERROR the moment a few drops touched my beloved show car, I recall racing home at lunch time fearful that the car might get wet before I got home in time to tuck it into the garage safe and sound and dry. *sigh* what a loser I was... (or "am", that's open to discussion).

If I gotta go WOT now and again, I say "no sweat, engineers assumed I'd be doing this now and again, otherwise they'd have included a big metal stopper to prevent the pedal from going that far". If I gotta drive gently, I say "no sweat, this engine shouldn't be failing if I happen to drive in circumstances that require slow driving".

Today's engines are sheer engineering marvels... whereas older motors were bound by whatever mixture and tuning the carburetor(s) were providing, regardless of environment (temperature, air pressure, etc.), today's motors can adapt to the environment within microseconds.

[CRUZTAKER]

Hey Junehan, whatever became of your ordeal? Resolved?

[junehhan]

Not yet unfortunately. Ford still hasn't released a fix, and my dealer told me again that Ford told them not to do anything with my car till they release an official fix. Sometime next week, i'm going to take my car to the local SVT Ford dealer down the street from me for a second opinion. I already talked with them and they said they'll check it out for me.