Camshaft position sensor

[tbone]

Where is the CPS located? (Yes, I did a search, so please no insults or OMG's). Thanks.

[RF Overlord]

In the timing cover in front of the driver's side head.

[tbone]

I'm pulling the cover during my Eaton swap to change the guides and tensioners and figured I'd change it out too for good measure. Thanks.

I found it. Thanks again.

[tbone]

Any other buried sensors etc. that I should change out as long as I'm tearing everything down? I already am changing the valve cover gaskets and O-rings due to a leaky well, new EGR, TPS, and other various bits....

[Zack]

No need to change that, or the other things. (valve cover o-rings excluded)

[tbone]

I'm doing it to refurbish the car to as like new condition as possible. And I don't like surprises. Cost not an issue.

New or refurbished OEM wheels is on my long term radar screen too.

[MOTOWN]

As stated there is no need to change that sensor unless you just want to spend extra cash.

[RF Overlord]

If you're going to change the CPS "just because", then change the CKP, too...

[massacre]

CKP sensor and connector used to be a problem with the older 4v motors, not sure about the newer ones.

[tbone]

As stated there is no need to change that sensor unless you just want to spend extra cash.

So you are saying that in no circumstance do these ever go bad....? We're talking about a $20 part.

[MOTOWN]

So you are saying that in no circumstance do these ever go bad....?

Im saying if it aint broke dont fix it! and keep in mind you can get a brand new sensor and it be DOA! Yours has proven itself to be reliable, stick with it.

[tbone]

I refurbished the entire brake and cooling sytem "just because" it makes me feel good. I would do a frame off if I had the tools, garage and know how. Not because the car needs it yet.
I replaced the steering wheel switches just because I didn't like the old, fairly beat up ones. I guess I'm a little OCD.

[RF Overlord]

I refurbished the entire brake and cooling sytem "just because" it makes me feel good. Brakes are a normal wear item and coolant gets contaminated and the additives get depleted. Sensors like the CPS, CKP, ABS wheel-speed, etc aren't the same thing at all. They're a Hall-effect device...meaning there are no moving parts and don't come in contact with anything, so they don't "wear out" or get weak over time. A new one has as much likelihood of going bad at some random time as a "used" one.

[MOTOWN]

I refurbished the entire brake and cooling sytem "just because" it makes me feel good. I would do a frame off if I had the tools, garage and know how. Not because the car needs it yet.
I replaced the steering wheel switches just because I didn't like the old, fairly beat up ones. I guess I'm a little OCD.

Sounds like you have a nice project in the works

[tbone]

Im saying if it aint broke dont fix it! and keep in mind you can get a brand new sensor and it be DOA! Yours has proven itself to be reliable, stick with it.

Planned obsolescence has a funny way of rearing its' ugly head at the least opportune times. EATC O-rings and the BCM comes to mind.

[RF Overlord]

Planned obsolescence has a funny way of rearing its' ugly head at the least opportune times. EATC O-rings and the BCM comes to mind.The EATC o-rings were either defective when molded, or were an improper choice of material for the use. The BCMs that failed had defective solder joints.

I'm not saying your desire to replace the sensors is entirely invalid, just that it most likely won't save you from anything down the road. The chance that a new sensor will fail is just as high (or as low, depending on your perspective) as with the existing one.

[tbone]

Brakes are a normal wear item and coolant gets contaminated and the additives get depleted. Sensors like the CPS, CKP, ABS wheel-speed, etc aren't the same thing at all. They're a Hall-effect device...meaning there are no moving parts and don't come in contact with anything, so they don't "wear out" or get weak over time. A new one has as much likelihood of going bad at some random time as a "used" one.

Agreed. When I say I did the brakes I mean the lines, calipers, master cylinder and brake booster too, not just the pads and rotors. Cooling system was every hose, clamp and the pump. All just because I wanted to. I like to wrench.

I had an ABS wheel sensor go bad. No moving parts......

[tbone]

The O-rings and BCM problems were almost surely planned by Ford. Especially the O-rings. $1000 for a new EATC? Money in the bank for them.

Obviously they must go bad at some point. The sensors are listed for sale on Rock Auto. I doubt they would stock something that never fails.

[RF Overlord]

Obviously they must go bad at some point. The sensors are listed for sale on Rock Auto. I doubt they would stock something that never fails.No one is saying they never fail. Certainly anything electrical CAN fail, I'm just saying that replacing one that's working perfectly with a new one is no guarantee that the new one won't fail, and maybe sooner than the original would have, so there's no real point to doing it.

You've obviously made up your mind that you're going to do this regardless, so enjoy...

[tbone]

It's a good discussion.

I guess it's a matter of waiting for it to eventually fail or engaging in preventative measures. I'm part of the latter group. Can a new part fail? Sure. Much, much less likely than an 11 year old part with 144k on it though.

Did you know that airplane motors have to be rebuilt and parts replaced after so many operating hours regardless of their condition? This goes for a Cessna 150 to a 747. Part of the preventative thought process.

I wouldn't replace the ECM "just because" of course, unless a brand new one was presented to me at no charge......lol

[RF Overlord]

I'm completely with you when it comes to preventative maintenance, however a logical extension of your theory in this case would mean that you should replace all the light bulbs, the radio, and the PCM as well.

[tbone]

Did you read the last line of my last post?

Point of fact, I replaced all the exterior bulbs in my car. And the radio. ;)

Next up: Knock sensor(s)

[Zack]

I've Never seen a cam sensor, crank sensor, tps or maf go bad on any marauder.
Save your money

[tbone]

If the 2003 has 1 knock sensor and the 2004 has 2, and they both plug in to the same connector, I can use 2 sensors on my 03, right? No code errors or compatibility issues?

If Ford thought 2 sensors was better than 1 for 2004, that's a good enough reason to upgrade in my opinion.

[Zack]

If the 2003 has 1 knock sensor and the 2004 has 2, and they both plug in to the same connector, I can use 2 sensors on my 03, right? No code errors or compatibility issues?

If Ford thought 2 sensors was better than 1 for 2004, that's a good enough reason to upgrade in my opinion.

You need to add 2 new wires back to the pcm bulkhead connector and swap in a pcm from an 04.
SergntMac and I did it back in 04, ended up turning the knock sensors off in the tune.
They are useless.

[Bradley G]

I replaced a TPS cause it went bad and the IAC so I don't feel all alone when I hear of someone wanting to be proactive about potential failures on a high mile DD

[tbone]

You need to add 2 new wires back to the pcm bulkhead connector and swap in a pcm from an 04.
SergntMac and I did it back in 04, ended up turning the knock sensors off in the tune.
They are useless.


Thanks for the info. You saved me a headache.

[tbone]

I replaced a TPS cause it went bad and the IAC so I don't feel all alone when I hear of someone wanting to be proactive about potential failures on a high mile DD


Thanks Brad.

How are you? Whatcha been doing since Courtesy? I got called for an interview as a Project Manager for a big builder so I'm stoked about that....:banana: Goodbye car sales....

Think spring! Gotta get you over for "the build"! We need to get your car going too.....anything with the motor yet?

[Bradley G]

I'll give you a call

[BigCars4Ever]

The CPS is what is called a switched reluctance sensor. It's basically a coil of wire wrapped around a magnet. Everytime the hole in the cam gear goes by it generates a pulse. They can and do go bad but it's rare. I have had one fail where it lost its magnetism, probably from excessive heat under the hood.

[RF Overlord]

Sensors like the CPS, CKP, ABS wheel-speed, etc aren't the same thing at all. They're a Hall-effect device...


The CPS is what is called a switched reluctance sensor. It's basically a coil of wire wrapped around a magnet. Everytime the hole in the cam gear goes by it generates a pulse. BigCars4Ever is correct...the sensors I mentioned are not Hall-effect devices. Another "oh thit" moment... :rolleyes:

[massacre]

Cam and crank sensor are the same thing as an electric guitar pickup. It is a magnet wrapped in wire there are no moving parts. The trigger wheel or crank gear rotates by the sensor and either the gap in the trigger wheel or the raised portion of the driver's cam gear sends an electrical signal. This is why the wiring for those circuits are shielded inside the harness, to ground. On a guitar the signal is the magnetic reaction to the vibration of the strings, obviously in a mod motor it is the magnetic reaction of the trigger points on the trigger wheel for the crank sensor and the driver's cam gear for the cam sensor.
Guitars are the same way with shielded wire, it's kinda like a microphone and without being shielded the magnets can pick up stray signals and can also give off stray signals.
TPS sensors are also just like electric guitar volume pots. There is a shaft, with a semiconductor and a wiper and all the same junk.

If you don't replace your cam and crank sensors, you might want to at least change the o-rings on them for peace of mind.

[BigCars4Ever]

The crank sensor on my 92 Vic was hall effect. The construction is pretty standard for a gear tooth sensor where a magnet is put on the back of a hall effect sensor. Ford probably used a hall sensor to get sharper edges to feed to the ECU. The crank sensor needs to be more accurate since it controls the timing for spark. The Cam position sensor is really only used to help synchronize the injectors. That's why when you loose the crank position sensor the car won't run but if you loose the cam position sensor it just takes longer to get it started. I did a lot of signal measurements when i was designing my tach adapter.

[tbone]

The crank sensor on my 92 Vic was hall effect. The construction is pretty standard for a gear tooth sensor where a magnet is put on the back of a hall effect sensor. Ford probably used a hall sensor to get sharper edges to feed to the ECU. The crank sensor needs to be more accurate since it controls the timing for spark. The Cam position sensor is really only used to help synchronize the injectors. That's why when you loose the crank position sensor the car won't run but if you loose the cam position sensor it just takes longer to get it started. I did a lot of signal measurements when i was designing my tach adapter.


So you would probably know better than anyone. At what point is it a good idea to replace them, or just wait until they fail?

[BigCars4Ever]

They are both very reliable parts. I wouldn't waste the money changing them. Especially the Cam sensor since it won't strand you it just takes longer to get the car started when it fails. I used that signal to drive my tach adapter even though it was harder to create the signal it kept the end user from splicing into one of the ignition coils.