4.6L Limits?

[woaface]

You know...I think when I get a Marauder I'll work on all the internals first. Does anyone thing 500rwhp (around that, no less than) is achievable on the 4.6L engine?

I don't mean to steal thunder...these are big dreams and it won't happen till I can legally drink.

But I've been reading the MMandFF magazines and (random here but...) if Porsche can put out 440 horses from a 3600cc engine, than I can sure as hell get 500 horses from4600cc's.

If I'm not mistaken, I've seen it posted that some Ford people have quoted the 281 as being able to take no more than 100 horses per liter. No way I'll let some little ***** in an S200 tell me "yeah, that sucks, we get 120 per liter"

By the way, I'm very interested in making sure I have a superb vehicle when it comes to handling...I mean, this tank better hold some coners like rails!

I'm molding my ideas little by little;)

[Marauderman]

I feel your future should be towards NASCAR where you can be all you can be and more..especially with wanting to take turns "on the rails""...maybe another "E" on the risin.....you seem to be a good prospect for it----

[89lxbill]

Sure it's possible. There are 700+hp Cobras out there. All it takes is $$$.

[woaface]

NASCAR? Nah, I'm not much for left turns all day.

But formula one cars going around lots of different turns at 150 + is WAY cool!

[SouLRioT]

If you are wanting to go fast you'll want to get a iron block dropped in her insted. Just like what DR is doing now.

[woaface]

I'll buy a Marauder and throw the engine in from my Marquis right :P

[Zack]

I could easily install a 12-13lb pulley on the car and achieve 500rwhp.
Ill drive around with what I got for a while before I make the change.

[woaface]

Hmm...cool! I was waiting for Zach or Mac to answer:)

[Lidio]

The stock MM motor can produce and hold up to more power then most would imagine.
No need to install a heavy iron block to an already fat car. The stock aluminum block that started coming in the ’96 Cobra has been proven to handle over 800-900HP and then the ’02 and newer Explorer 4.6L aluminum block is even beefier which our MM's also got.

Many tuners out there bring a boat load of problems onto them selves because of poor or aggressive tunes and simply start blaming and replacing a lot of parts that are totally up to the task.
I’m not sure why the ’03 Cobra started coming with an iron block, I’m sure Ford had some long term warranty issues to worry about. This does not have to set precedence for us in any way. Before the “03 Cobra started coming with that block, it was never considered an option to replace the aluminum block in a 4.6 car with the iron one. To this day I’ve yet to blame a 4.6L bottom end failure on the block. It’s always a head gasket or piston.

I’m constantly reminding here that the Trilogy number one Supercharged car has now got over 30K on the odo, and about 28K of that has been an unexplainable amount of abuse since the blower went on... and its still going very strong. This is quite a testament to the MM’s engine durability and a responsible tune.


You might want to check out my rant on tuning on my web site;
Tuning Rant on Alternative Auto web site (http://www.alternativeauto.com/tuning/tuning_philosophy.html)

This is something I wrote and posted some where else I think or even here, not sure but you might want to read it, I've edited it some since I posted it else where;

We’d like to try to make a few folks feel better about supercharging their Modern muscle cars by basically explaining a few things that I’ve been through and have seen plenty of over the last decade or so.
First off any time you add a significant amount of power to an engine (via supercharger or NOS) you do undoubtly shorten its life… that goes with out saying for the most part. How much it shortens an engines life cannot always be set in stone. Our shop has installed Superchargers and NOS on lots of vehicles in the last 14 years…some are pure race cars and lots are true street cars. Tons of them have lived long, healthy, powerful lives.

The 5.0 Mustang crowd got acustomed to being able to do serious mods to their beloved LX’s and GT’s with the only fear for the most part was a blown head gaskets because it came with forged pistons... Until ’93 when the tried and true 5.0 started coming with the weak non-forged--hypereutectic pistons. These weak pistons carried through with the release of the 4.6L 2V and 32V as well in the Mustangs. Their true weakness although didn’t shine through though until the ’96 and newer 32V Cobras. The reason that the piston failures became more common with the ’96 and newer Cobra’s when power adders where added, is what’s been narrowed down to a couple of things. Number one the ’96 Cobra 32V started coming with 9.8:1 compression. This made things a lot more volatile when boosted or NOS’d. This required more careful attention to the air/fuel ratios and more importantly the ignition timing and octane had to be watched the most. And on top of all that the 32V’s (more valves) simply could fill the cylinders better with a good does of boost or NOS then most 302’s could even with a good set of aftermarket heads. So the 32V’s could produce more power then we were used because of better cylinder filling.

These motors when supercharged or Nitriosed are like walking on eggshells when hit with lots of one of these two power adder’s. The Cobra being the most sesiptle to it because of its moderately high static compression.

When an engine is “properly tuned and Octaned correctly” at WOT when it’s in boost or with NOS… the only limitation is the sheer strength of the rotating assembly, and the block’s ability to keep the rotating assembly from falling out of the bottom of it. As long as it’s not detonated at all, even the non forged pistons will hold up very well in this environment. With an improper tuning effort though…. you can destroy a lot of parts in an engine with as little as 4psi of boost.
There are a lot of tuners and installers that made supercharging the 32V Cobra look bad and scared a lot of people away from it in that last few years. This can be an insult to a lot of people or tuner’s, but it’s the truth. Just to prove this in the summer of 2000 I installed a used ‘96 32V Cobra 4.6L motor in a ’91 Mustang coupe and proceeded to hit that used stock Cobra motor with 22-25psi of boost and went on to run mid 9’s in the quarter with it in a 3100 lbs Mustang with a AOD-E trans. It made about 580hp at the rear wheels!! That motor lasted some 65 quarter mile passes or so and finally broke a piston when I leaned on it to try to get a better and better ET out of it. Granted… I ran leaded race gas in it, but the point is that proper tuning and octane is the key to the engine surviving at any level of compression mixed with high or low boost. Had I not leaned on that motor… I believed it would have lasted much, much longer with that particular setup.


“My shop has supercharged and tuned about 300 32V Cobra’s and GT’s since ‘96 and only a couple have had unexpected piston failure due to lack of octane or a lean condition caused by possibly a serious temperature change or some thing we couldn’t catch.(such as bad gas or fuel pump degradation etc.


I know a lot of this sounds like a sales pitch but we want people to not be afraid to do viable and reliable upgrades to there vehicles. Supercharging is the number one power adder in the aftermarket from what I can see (especially with the small 4.6L’s) and we simply want to show and explain that it can be safe and reliable when treated correctly. Motors that are in the 9:1 to 10:1 compression level are perfect candidates for 7-13 psi with today’s premium unleaded fuels, intercooling and a proper tune.

Thanks

[89lxbill]

The biggest problem I have seen is with connecting rods. The Marauder has the same rods as the 2V. The block is not really a problem. I would have to agree with Lidio. Of course, most Marauders are not turning 7000+ rpms and do not have manual transmissions, which this plays a major contributing factor. So, over 450hp on a manual 2v this is the high end of the stock short block. On a 4V Marauder, not tested to the fullest, but Zack and a few others are giving it the test.

[sailsmen]

Have some of the 4.6 w/ power added failures been from the trigger and oil pump gears?

[jspradii]

SHM boasts 1500 hp out of a 4.6L (properly dressed out, of course).

[Warpath]

Have some of the 4.6 w/ power added failures been from the trigger and oil pump gears?

It seems like the next weakest link after the pistons and rods is the oil pump gears (at least on Cobras with the forged crank). If you are going to (re)build an engine, it only makes sense to replace the oil pump gear with a billet gear. Its cheap insurance. I cannot tell you whether the gear failures were due to other mods like underdrive pulleys. I can see where underdrive pulleys change engine harmonics and lead to a new failure. Its not common though.

[woaface]

I was wondering about that Lidio. I told a sales guy up at Mercury that most of the blown up engines on the aluminum 4.6 were gaskets or pistons, and told him that Dennis was able to re-route the cooling system. "Through the freeze plugs eh?"

I liked him, he knew what he was talking about mostly...

Said he raced cars back in the day, had one with 5.13 gears!:up:

That's some awesome stuff man, thanks for that wonderful answer! It was just what I was looking for....

[Patrick]

Hey check out the thread " spoted at mm at work" . Their talking about putting Nuclear or Fusion powered MM!!!!! :baaa: A 4.6 capable of Wrap????

[Accufab Racing]

Lidio know his stuff. John Mihovetz's 4.6L is amazingly stock. The block is a standard Cobra aluminum block with almost zero modifications (re routing oil passages to the thrust bearing only) and OEM Cobra heads (ported of course with better valves, springs, etc.) The rockers and lifters (?) are OEM stock as is the crank. Custom pistons and rods of course. All of this has proven very reliable, even at 1500+ HP at 9200 RPM. At 281" that works out to 5.3 horse per cubic inch or 326 horses per liter.