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IwantmyMMnow!
03-10-2014, 07:46 PM
Here's the scenario: (I did a google search and came up with 6 of one and half a dozen of the other answers to my question)

Bought new fronts 2 years ago; had it aligned to carfixer's specs...or so I thought. Last time I had the oil changed, noticed that the inner edge of the front tires were showing signs of wear (rest of tire fine), but definitely not as bad as one sees with the 'factory specs' alignment--i.e., no belts showing through.

Last week, hit a pothole (at night and it was filled with rainwater) and now the car pulls to the left, especially when driving at speeds below 35-40mph (and actually pulls to the right a touch when at speeds above 60-65mph). I will most likely buy new fronts before the trek to Looseville, as my current fronts have ~35k miles on them and I bought new rears last December. I have an appt tomorrow afternoon to have an alignment done (and oil change), but I'm wondering if I will be throwing money away since I plan to get new fronts in the next 2-3 weeks.

If I get an alignment now, will I have to get another alignment done when I buy new fronts? I don't mind driving with the front alignment off since I will be getting new fronts by the end of the month. I feel that the answer would be yes, but would like to get more answers from y'all.

Thanks.

Comin' in Hot
03-10-2014, 07:50 PM
Most people will tell you "yes". The alignment is done to the position of the wheel, not the tire. So theoretically you shouldn't need one.

Make sure the flags are removed from the camber bolts, also it wouldn't be a bad idea to have SPC camber bolts installed.

Limited360
03-10-2014, 07:55 PM
Most people will tell you "yes". The alignment is done to the position of the wheel, not the tire. So theoretically you shouldn't need one.

Make sure the flags are removed from the camber bolts, also it wouldn't be a bad idea to have SPC camber bolts installed.


Yeah the alignment heads go on the rim not tire, should square the suspension up and correct tire wear. So I would say you should be fine...

I will be ordering the SPC camber bolts after Louisville. Going to go lower in the front I think...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk so I may sound retarded.

whitey
03-10-2014, 08:09 PM
What they said. My question is why is it pulling one way at low speeds and the other direction at high speeds.

Zack
03-10-2014, 08:18 PM
Shops fail to tighten that nut down enough and the camber goes out of whack.
Make sure they really tighten the sh**t out of it.

Comin' in Hot
03-10-2014, 08:20 PM
What they said. My question is why is it pulling one way at low speeds and the other direction at high speeds.

that could be caused by worn rear control arm bushings, our cars will torque steer when on and off the throttle if the rear is shifting slightly.

IwantmyMMnow!
03-10-2014, 08:34 PM
Thanks for the responses, guys. I plan to address suspension parts during my 3 week break between spring and summer semesters (May). She'll be north of 125k by then, so figured I need to start replacing things that have been on the car that long....I'll most likely start another thread before then to get a list of stuff/parts I should replace/look at.

8UWITH6
03-10-2014, 09:08 PM
Zero the toe and make camber as positive as possible. Remove the flags from the lower control arm bolts as stated. Tighten the crap out of them as stated by Zack. I was able to get my camber to -.4 and -.6 degrees even with a coil cut on the front springs no other changes except removing the flags. Rotate side to side often. Good luck! 10K miles on my tires not a hint of edge wear.

Limited360
03-10-2014, 09:33 PM
Zero the toe and make camber as positive as possible. Remove the flags from the lower control arm bolts as stated. Tighten the crap out of them as stated by Zack. I was able to get my camber to -.4 and -.6 degrees even with a coil cut on the front springs no other changes except removing the flags. Rotate side to side often. Good luck! 10K miles on my tires not a hint of edge wear.


-2.0 is best I could get out of stock camber bolts... :( coil overs running low however...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk so I may sound retarded.

Comin' in Hot
03-10-2014, 10:04 PM
Notching the crossmember and installing camber bolts the the way to go, I could get positive camber even with being lowered.

lifespeed
03-10-2014, 10:43 PM
Thanks for the responses, guys. I plan to address suspension parts during my 3 week break between spring and summer semesters (May). She'll be north of 125k by then, so figured I need to start replacing things that have been on the car that long....I'll most likely start another thread before then to get a list of stuff/parts I should replace/look at.

125K miles = worn suspension components. Ideally you would fix it before spending money on alignment. But you do what you can do.

Most likely it is a worn front end contributing to the tire wear. You can't really align a worn out suspension.

GreekGod
03-11-2014, 11:25 AM
"Tighten the crap out of them" ... for those of us who own a torque wrench, why not tighten them to spec?

I've seen youtube videos of shadetree mechanics standing on breaker bars with pipe extensions on them. Hammer mechanics could break or strip bolts with such advise.

=====================

Limited360
03-11-2014, 11:26 AM
Notching the crossmember and installing camber bolts the the way to go, I could get positive camber even with being lowered.

That is the plan. How low were you? I am just about tucking the front tire in the fender at current height. Rears are just tucked with the 295's...

Zack
03-11-2014, 12:01 PM
125K miles = worn suspension components. Ideally you would fix it before spending money on alignment. But you do what you can do.

Most likely it is a worn front end contributing to the tire wear. You can't really align a worn out suspension.

Are you the same guy I was arguing on FB with?
10 year old car = sagging springs = camber out of whack.
:shake:

lifespeed
03-11-2014, 12:48 PM
Are you the same guy I was arguing on FB with?
10 year old car = sagging springs = camber out of whack.
:shake:

No.

I sure do like my old Marauder better now that it has new suspension.

Are you that guy who thinks suspension doesn't wear?

fastblackmerc
03-11-2014, 03:02 PM
125K miles = worn suspension components. Ideally you would fix it before spending money on alignment. But you do what you can do.

Most likely it is a worn front end contributing to the tire wear. You can't really align a worn out suspension.

+1... rebuild the suspension first if you can afford it.

You can align a worn out suspension..... but as soon as you drive it it will not be aligned.

Comin' in Hot
03-11-2014, 03:33 PM
That is the plan. How low were you? I am just about tucking the front tire in the fender at current height. Rears are just tucked with the 295's...

This is with 245/45s on the front and 295/45s on the rear its about as low as I could go where I live. I scrap the front of the car everytime I go up and down my driveway.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/Witman40/922777_641923134506_882829607_ n_zps83db7db8.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/user/Witman40/media/922777_641923134506_882829607_ n_zps83db7db8.jpg.html)

Comin' in Hot
03-11-2014, 03:36 PM
I did have 255/45s up front but my camber was neg 2-3 degrees, now that I have SPC camber bolts its at 0 and I was afraid of them rubbing. Next time I get tires, I'll probably go back to the 255s

IwantmyMMnow!
03-11-2014, 04:54 PM
Can't focus on the suspension at the moment....don't have the time and I prolly don't have the money for it. Will have to wait until May when I have 3 weeks off from school and I'll have my tax refund $$$ by then.

As for today, the guy said to wait until I get the new fronts to get an alignment done. The appt wasn't a total waste...I did have them change the fuel filter.

8UWITH6
03-11-2014, 07:07 PM
These cars suspension are not worn out with 125K miles. Different from new of course. Spring sag is not as bad as most think. Check your bushings, ball joints, tie rods and strut/shock condition. If thats okay, align the SOB. Get the camber as close to 0 as possible and zero the toe and drive it. My wife's MM has 181K on it and all I did to it was a front-right lower ball joint and aligned it. It drives just like my 43K mile DBP. Obviously results vary but dont just start throwing money at the car. CHECK it first. :)

8UWITH6
03-11-2014, 07:10 PM
This is with 245/45s on the front and 295/45s on the rear its about as low as I could go where I live. I scrap the front of the car everytime I go up and down my driveway.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b335/Witman40/922777_641923134506_882829607_ n_zps83db7db8.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/user/Witman40/media/922777_641923134506_882829607_ n_zps83db7db8.jpg.html)

Looks great man. Wish I could go lower with mine but its a daily so even 1 coil cut I gotta be cautious! :)

Zack
03-11-2014, 07:20 PM
These cars a built like brick *****houses.
Suspension parts don't usually ever wear out by 125k unless we are talking about sway bar end links.
So forgive me if I think assuming suspension components are worn is ridiculous

8UWITH6
03-11-2014, 07:23 PM
Nope, I agree and that was the point of my post. Their are exceptions to the rule but no joke the guy we bought my wifes car put 40K on it in a year. Bought it with 177K and I expected to have to replace a bunch of stuff. Nope. SOLID. Ball joint, tires, alignment, thank you come again!

ChiTownMaraud3r
03-11-2014, 07:33 PM
For what its worth, my 03 Grand Marquis has had badly worn out suspension from all the abuse in Chicago for a while now. Feels like a used and abused turd now. I had tires installed 37k miles ago, and there is zero signs of uneven tire wear.

Zack
03-11-2014, 07:39 PM
For what its worth, my 03 Grand Marquis has had badly worn out suspension from all the abuse in Chicago for a while now. Feels like a used and abused turd now. I had tires installed 37k miles ago, and there is zero signs of uneven tire wear.

I drive down god awful roads in the suburbs. I avoid potholes.

Limited360
03-11-2014, 07:57 PM
Sorry for the thread hijack. Cars look good at that height.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/12/temudava.jpg


I want to go lower. Need SPC camber bolts ASAP!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk so I may sound retarded.

Comin' in Hot
03-11-2014, 07:59 PM
I drove my first marauder to 178k with original suspension other than eibach springs and kyb shocks.... its still on the road today and probably has well over 200k on it.

I replaced my upper control arms on my DBP because the ball joint boots tore at 67k from having it so low, but the joints themselves were fine.

My trilogy has, 113k on it and I just fried a wheel bearing, my first one in over 600k panther miles between my CV and 3 MMs

lji372
03-11-2014, 08:00 PM
Sorry for the thread hijack. Cars look good at that height.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/12/temudava.jpg


I want to go lower. Need SPC camber bolts ASAP!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk so I may sound retarded.


Ph! buy a ricer :lol:

lifespeed
03-11-2014, 08:18 PM
These cars a built like brick *****houses.
Suspension parts don't usually ever wear out by 125k unless we are talking about sway bar end links.
So forgive me if I think assuming suspension components are worn is ridiculous

Funny thing, I have never seen anybody on this forum say "I rebuilt my suspension and I couldn't tell a difference". I do see a lot of "I have driven XXX,XXX miles and it is just fine" from people still on the original parts.

Brick house or not, this stuff all wears. And it does so gradually over the years so is not that obvious. Until you fix it. Even my wife noticed the car drove nicer after I rebuilt the suspension. :D

8UWITH6
03-11-2014, 08:20 PM
Funny thing, I have never seen anybody on this forum say "I rebuilt my suspension and I couldn't tell a difference". I do see a lot of "I have driven XXX,XXX miles and it is just fine" from people still on the original parts.

Brick house or not, this stuff all wears. And it does so gradually over the years so is not that obvious. Until you fix it. Even my wife noticed the car drove nicer after I rebuilt the suspension. :D

I dont disagree that it is a slow deterioration over the years and that it only becomes noticeable when its really bad. But coming from someone in the industry I would say this a pretty darn solid platform.

lifespeed
03-11-2014, 08:33 PM
These cars suspension are not worn out with 125K miles. Different from new of course. Spring sag is not as bad as most think. Check your bushings, ball joints, tie rods and strut/shock condition. If thats okay, align the SOB. Get the camber as close to 0 as possible and zero the toe and drive it. My wife's MM has 181K on it and all I did to it was a front-right lower ball joint and aligned it. It drives just like my 43K mile DBP. Obviously results vary but dont just start throwing money at the car. CHECK it first. :)

One ball joint out of four was worn?

lifespeed
03-11-2014, 08:36 PM
I dont disagree that it is a slow deterioration over the years and that it only becomes noticeable when its really bad. But coming from someone in the industry I would say this a pretty darn solid platform.

It is a fantastic platform, and the final iteration with aluminum front end, R&P steering, Watts link, etc can't be beat.

8UWITH6
03-12-2014, 04:39 AM
Yes passenger lower had movement.

IwantmyMMnow!
03-12-2014, 09:38 AM
Yes, I will have everything checked out before I start throwing money at it. The roads around here are definitely an adventure in some areas, especially around downtown. I had new shocks (Monroe Severe Duty) installed around 40k miles ago. When I had the oil changed at 110k, I had them inspect ball joints, etc, and was told everything looked good.