Gears???

[Patrick]

I know this has been debated for awhile, about what to do with the MM. My service rep says if your going to change gears go with 3:73 instead of 4:10s. His reasoning is 4:10's will get you killed on the freeway. He also said just do 3:73 gears and forget all that chip and plug things. 3:73 will all you need. He said he could do it for under $500.

I dont want to race at the track. Just want sum more get up and go.

[woaface]

If you want more get up and go, grab a chip too.

[Patrick]

Butt which gears??? Just do chips or gears??

[woaface]

Correct me if I'm wrong everbody...but 3.73's won't make a big difference. In my car yeah. But I'd suggest 4.10s...probably 4.30's. But 4.10s and a chip would do you good if you're just looking for a little more kick.

[Logan]

Patrick,

I driven a 3.73 car and there is no appreciable difference and while you get a sense of a faster launch, it leaves you thinking "It just ain't quite enough"...

As soon as I drove a 4.10 equipped car, it was all over. I was in love. My exact words were, "Now THIS is what it should feel like."

You service writer has dealt with how many Marauders and driven how many? Leave it to the pro's...

Trust me, 4.10's ARE the way to go for the casual performance enthusiast.

Click HERE (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gears.html) to see what your rpm difference is at various speeds between 3.55's and 4.10's... You'll note that at highway speeds in overdrive there's VERY minimal difference and let me tell ya, it feels completely natural. At 70mph, with 4.10's, in overdrive, you're turning 2360rpm, which is practically idling down the highway...

To be blunt, your service rep doesn't know what he's talking about. We do.

As for the plugs and stat, there's proven hp in the Denso plugs and the stock stat is 188 degree's which is a touch too high.

I could live without the stat, I couldn't live without the plugs and gears.

Anyone who tells you different is a schmuck.

$500 is right in the range for a dealership, but gears are routinely installed for $250-350 at any competent performance shop.

[woaface]

::low giggle:: Logan said schmuck!

And yeah, he's right.

[Patrick]

Yes Logan said Schmuck!!! He is allowed!!! Thanks Logan for responding! It was a suprise! I do luv my MM and just want to tweak her a bit but want to keep her as an everyday driver. Well helll, Every one here says 4:10's My service rep has seen 3 MM, Doubt he has driven one! So do 4:10 gears and the plugs???

[Logan]

Yep, you got it. 4.10's and plugs. You'll be a very happy camper. I daily drove my first marauder with 4.10's and loved it. Mind you, I also daily drive my 440rwhp, 4.30 geared marauder too... :D

FYI, the plugs are quite literally a 10 minute do it yourself type job, thanks to the easy access to the plugs.

[03SILVERSTREAK]

Yep, you got it. 4.10's and plugs. You'll be a very happy camper. I daily drove my first marauder with 4.10's and loved it. Mind you, I also daily drive my 440rwhp, 4.30 geared marauder too... :D

FYI, the plugs are quite literally a 10 minute do it yourself type job, thanks to the easy access to the plugs.Reguarding the Denso Plugs , Did you set the Gap or installed them as they are???

[Logan]

Stick 'em in as them come. They're pre-gapped.

[03SILVERSTREAK]

Stick 'em in as them come. They're pre-gapped.Thanks - :up:

[woaface]

I can't even see where my plugs are it's so dirty under there! Haven't been able to clean it in a while.

I have single cams too, so it's harder for me to reach since everything is smaller on the top :down:

[bigslim]

Patrick, as you have probably seen elsewhere on this forum I have just chiped my MM and put a 410 in it. I gained about 300rpms at 80. I will say it made a world of difference. You may want to chip it to because it will enhance your shift points. My car now really lunges forward when it hits second now.

[Patrick]

Thanks Logan!!! Hope this thread helps someone else!!! Do 4:10's and plugs. I guess call Dennis for the plugs but where do I get the gears??? And I do trust the work at my dealership. I have connections!!!!

[Logan]

Just call Dennis, he'll hook you up with everything. FMS 4.10's, plugs, stat and Chip. Note that a chip is required to keep your speedometer correct...

[03SILVERSTREAK]

Thanks Logan!!! Hope this thread helps someone else!!! Do 4:10's and plugs. I guess call Dennis for the plugs but where do I get the gears??? And I do trust the work at my dealership. I have connections!!!!Im also going foward with the Dealership in installing my 4.10 and rear cap studs as well as my rear end girdle and MMX Drive shaft .

[woaface]

Schmuck :lol:

[03SILVERSTREAK]

:uzi::lol:

[Patrick]

Dennis And I talked late last year about mods. If he buys lunch , its on!!!!LOL

[CRUZTAKER]

Patrick,

Trust me, 4.10's ARE the way to go for the casual performance enthusiast.



Right on the money!

The link is right on as well. I recently posted my rpm's with the 4:10's....something was obvoiusly wrong. After my Jerry tune, my numbers are right on according to that link.

With pullies and such, I now run 2750 at 80 and 3400 at 110 right on the nose, and that is just very cool for me.

[Mattsmerc]

Just call Dennis, he'll hook you up with everything. FMS 4.10's, plugs, stat and Chip. Note that a chip is required to keep your speedometer correct...
yep go with all logan has suggested. you will like the performance :up: I love all my goodies. I :) evey time I get in and drive

[bigslim]

Patrick, I sent you a PM. Check it out.

[SergntMac]

Just my .02C...

Replace all mentions of a chip with "hand held programable tuner."

Chips are quickly becoming old school. The hand held is the latest and the greatest of technology, and priced about the same. No tell tale modification to your EEC, and you can make fine adjustments to suit your own personal taste. End user cost is in the ball park with the chip.

[gpfarrell]

Bought an MM 3 weeks ago.

Itching to do 4.10s/4.30s. Worried about highway rpms.

Drove our stock BMW 528 5-speed 500 miles over the weekend (trying to preserve MM warranty... missed it!).

Noticed BMW turns 3,000 rpms at 75mph (5th isn't an overdrive - its 1:1). Doesn't seem to be breathing hard... car is designed to cruise at 125 on the autobahn... 5000 rpms.

MM with 4.30s should turn 2743 rpms at 75mph.

No longer considering 4.10s!

[Logan]

Yep... I run 4.30's on mine, it's absolutely fine at 80mph cruising...

[Ross]

OK, this is just IMHO, and I readily admit that I am far from the most knowledgeable person mechanically. But, it seems to me that new gears without a chip/dyno tune/hand held tuner (or some kind of change to the computer) is only half a loaf. The new gears may give you a faster launch, but you will not get the same quick gear changes that you would get with some kind of chip, etc. Right? Also, when you put on different gears, your speedo will be off unless you do some kind of chip, computer reflash, etc. Right? Or am I way off?

[SergntMac]

You're correct Ross.

[BillyGman]

agreed......

[Fourth Horseman]

Just my .02C...

Replace all mentions of a chip with "hand held programable tuner."

Chips are quickly becoming old school. The hand held is the latest and the greatest of technology, and priced about the same. No tell tale modification to your EEC, and you can make fine adjustments to suit your own personal taste. End user cost is in the ball park with the chip.

Do the tuners just plug into the diagnostic port under the driver's side dash?

[Ross]

Do the tuners just plug into the diagnostic port under the driver's side dash?

and do the tuners work by themselves, or do you have to also have a laptop to plug in to do any work?

[Dr Caleb]

and do the tuners work by themselves, or do you have to also have a laptop to plug in to do any work?

Yes, all by themselves. And Yes to Fourth as well.

But you MUST follow the instructions. Most tell you to disconnect the fuel pump fuse, and make sure all accessories are off, doors closed. Programming an ECC is a very voltage sensitive operation. If there are any voltage drops during the programming phase, your ECC can be FUBAR.

[Fourth Horseman]

Yes, all by themselves. And Yes to Fourth as well.

But you MUST follow the instructions. Most tell you to disconnect the fuel pump fuse, and make sure all accessories are off, doors closed. Programming an ECC is a very voltage sensitive operation. If there are any voltage drops during the programming phase, your ECC can be FUBAR.

One more question: is there anything online for the tuner that Dennis sells? I'd like to see what it looks like, list of features, etc. Thx for all the info.

[HotrodMerc]

Patrick, yes it helps, have had the same Q. myself, esp. as to 4:10's vs. 3:73's. My take and experience: went all the way on Power Tour '02, with 5 factory Marauder's participating, cruise beside, behind and in front of them many miles. Though the drivers may have been under strict rules not to "punch it", never saw one get on it. Then drove an '03 demo. Nice, but I wasn't greatly impressed. FF to 3/04, drove the silver '04, more impressed, but i'm a year older. Also read on here the next day that '04s had different trans. calibrations, which could make a big diff. in first impressions. The following Friday when i went and signed the deal on the car (see post about deals) i drove the dealers "personalized" '03. It had a Trilogy kit installed by his chief tech., 4:10's and Flow's, no other mod's that they told me or i noticed. I am in awe. For a 4K lb. vehicle to run like this black sedan, who'd a thought it? Havn't driven one with just 4:10's and chip, no s/c, but want to add this - while driving this car,trying to suppress an ear to ear grin, my thought that was at low speed, stop light traffic, sometimes the tranny felt like it had a higher rev torque converter - may have had, don't know - but i think it was just the 4:10's in 1st gear that bothered me. I run original 3:08's in my '90 5.0, but I also still have 15" wheels, makes a lot of difference. Anyway, i didn't necessarily like the feel in town traffic, maybe because just not use to it - it reminded me of driving my offroad Lariat in 4X4 Low, compared to driving my Mustang w/ 3:08's in town, even with the 3:35 1st in the Mustang tranny.
But overall, and after listening to "Dr." Reinhart on the phone, I remembered the reality that bigger diam. wheels make like higher gears, and 4:10's in a car w/ 18" wheels is nothing like 4:10's in a car with 15" wheels would be.
BL is my overall impression, based on driving the 4:10's and from what Logan and others say, is that I will go with the 4:10's, very soon. I would go with the majority opinion of those who have experienced the diff. - the 4:10's. BTW, this dealer drove this car as a commuter to his other store about 400 mi. away on I-40, said on one trip he wasn't trying for mileage - running 90-95, through Oklahoma, and got 21.6. Joe

[PAPAJOHN]

Just call Dennis, he'll hook you up with everything. FMS 4.10's, plugs, stat and Chip. Note that a chip is required to keep your speedometer correct...
What does this do for the warranty and extended warranty?

[SergntMac]

Im also going foward with the Dealership in installing my 4.10 and rear cap studs as well as my rear end girdle and MMX Drive shaft .
Stud kit and girdle, you are a smart man.

[MYSTA KANG]

Well i have driven the 3.53 MM(stock) and it felt ok. I mean the only get up I was use to was my 4.6 2000 explorer. But When MIB let the horses run free. I knew when my heart skipped a beat I was gong to get the chip done and the 4:10's when I get my MM.

[studio460]

MM with 4.30s should turn 2743 rpms at 75mph.
Since I've just changed my tires to Nitto NT-555 245/40/18; 255/45/18 Extreme ZRs, I now have a higher rear end ratio due to the smaller diameter (but wider), lower-series tires. If I now install 4.10s, if my math is correct, I will have about the equivalent of 4.30s. Since I'm too lazy to do the math, and I tend to cruise at 80/85MPH-90/95MPH, could someone please post the RPMs at those speeds with the 4.30s? Thanks!

[studio460]

Since I've just changed my tires to Nitto NT-555 245/40/18; 255/45/18 Extreme ZRs, I now have a higher rear end ratio due to the smaller diameter (but wider), lower-series tires. If I now install 4.10s, if my math is correct, I will have about the equivalent of 4.30s. Since I'm too lazy to do the math, and I tend to cruise at 80/85MPH-90/95MPH, could someone please post the RPMs at those speeds with the 4.30s? Thanks!
Can anyone answer this post?

[Black Terror]

Can anyone answer this post?
Overdrive Speeds vs RPM

80MPH = 2994RPM
90MPH = 3368RPM
100MPH = 3742RPM

[studio460]

Those are the RPMs for 4.30s in overdrive (I thought they would be higher)? If they are, thanks!

[jstevens]

Logan, I respect your knowledge and would like to ask a small question. I'm working up the nerve to do chips and 4:10 gears as a package as this is the best way to get maximum bang for the buck. I looked at your spreadsheet with BTW is very impressive.
Are there any long term effects from driving with the higher rpm speed. I do a lot of freeway driving at 80-90mph as in Michigan if you don't you'll get ran over. I read alot of threads but didn't see anything about long term disadvantages.

Thanks.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I know this has been debated for awhile, about what to do with the MM. My service rep says if your going to change gears go with 3:73 instead of 4:10s. His reasoning is 4:10's will get you killed on the freeway. He also said just do 3:73 gears and forget all that chip and plug things. 3:73 will all you need. He said he could do it for under $500.

I dont want to race at the track. Just want sum more get up and go.

I wouldd not even consider 3:73 gears go with 4:10's or stay at home, drive the car and at 65MPH the car will tach at 2100 RPM install 4:10's the car runs 2400 RPM you will never see a gas milage drop, with a good set of plugs and a colder thermostat and tuning the car will gain 23 RWHP and 30 foot pounds of torque the car is transformed.

http://www.marauder57.com/Reinhart%20SC%20Banner%201.gif

2003 Blue Marauder 12.36 seconds 450 RWHP.

PI 3000 Stall, Metal Matrix Drive Shaft, 4:30 gears with stud girdle, Denso IT 22's 180 Stat, RPC/Fordchip tuning, Vortech S Trim 10 PSI/with after cooler, SVO Shorty high flow cats with X pipe, Rear sway bar, Sylvania headlight upgrade, Infinity speaker upgrade, Viper Alarm with auto start, power sunroof. parachute optional.

1996 Lincoln Mark 8
550 RWHP 11.3 seconds 128 MPH

2002 GT 363RWHP
Bullit intake custom after cooler 4:10 Mac stud Girdle, 10 PSI Vortech
42 pound Inj,Anderson Ford Power Pipe 90 MM LM, RPC/SCT Tuning. Drive with the best

[jcooper]

What is the Gap for thr colder plugs? I just ordered a Stage 1 kit from Reinhart Automotive.

John




Plug
Yep, you got it. 4.10's and plugs. You'll be a very happy camper. I daily drove my first marauder with 4.10's and loved it. Mind you, I also daily drive my 440rwhp, 4.30 geared marauder too... :D

FYI, the plugs are quite literally a 10 minute do it yourself type job, thanks to the easy access to the plugs.

[BillyGman]

[QUOTE=Dennis Reinhart]I wouldd not even consider 3:73 gears go with 4:10's or stay at home, drive the car and at 65MPH the car will tach at 2100 RPM install 4:10's the car runs 2400 RPM you will never see a gas milage drop, with a good set of plugs and a colder thermostat and tuning the car will gain 23 RWHP and 30 foot pounds of torque the car is transformed.....


This is what I have to say about that......I agree w/the main points of what Dennis said, but not on the secondary things. Yes, going from 3.55's to 4.10's will only mean an increase of 300RPM's at 70 MPH on the highway. I once had both 3.55's and 4.10's in my Marauder, so I know for a fact that Dennis is correct about that. So because of that, I also agree w/him that 4.10's are fine. That guy at the dealer doesn't know what he's talking about. Atleast not when it comes to rear end gear ratio comparisants w/overdrive transmissions. So my advice to you is to forget about what he's telling you(the guy at the dealer that is). He doesn't know what he's talking about, and I would say that even if he's a member of this board, and someone who owns a Marauder himself.

As far as gas mileage staying the same, no way. Mine didn't, however it was a minor change and nothing to argue about. And BTW, I was also using the Denso plugs that Dennis recommends at that time, as well as the colder thermostat too. But my mileage was 17 MPG city, w/the 3.55's, and 15 MPG w/the 4.10's. And w/the 4.56's it was 13MPG, and that was all BEFORE my car was Supercharged. It will reduce your gas mileage, but not by that much. Again, we're only talking a 300 RPM increase at 70 MPH in O/D. No biggie.

And that's one of the reasons that I agree w/Dennis about 3.70's being a waste of time. If you're going to spend the money and the time to have the gears changed, you'll be very dissapointed w/your results going from 3.55's to 3.70's, because you will NOT notice any difference in the way the car accelerated at all w/such a small ratio change. And anyone who says you will is simply DEAD WRONG. If you had a 500 HP car that weighed under 3000 lbs, then yes, you would feel a difference in the way the car accelerated going from 3.55's to 4.10's, but you simply will NOT feel anything different w/such a small ratio change w/a 4200 LB car pushing under 400 HP. And I challenge anyone on that. I've had three different gear ratios in my Marauder, and I speak from experience that is specific to this car on this issue.

[RF Overlord]

What is the Gap for thr colder plugs? I just ordered a Stage 1 kit from Reinhart Automotive.

If you've purchased the Motorcraft AWSF-A12C plugs, then use the stock gap (.054")...if you're getting the Denso Iridium plugs, then just install them right out of the box. Attempting to gap them is risky; due to the brittle nature of iridium and the very small size of the centre electrode (0.4mm), it's very easy to damage them using conventional gapping tools.

[BillyGman]

Ofcourse it never hurts to check the gap anyway. I had to gap my Denso plugs, and it never hurt them by doing so. The gaps were .010" different on three of them.You just need to be really carefull when you gap them. They're a bit delicate.

[Patrick]

Well I finshed work early tonight and a new employee has a Steeda Mustang. So he took me for a SPIN. Holey Cow!!!! And Barked the tires in 5th gear!!!! My Point and question after talking to him for a while is Gears. Go figure! He is running 3:73 in his. His freind also has a Steeda and running 4:10's. And he says his 3:73 eats up those 4:10's from start to finish! I am still planning on the 4:10's. If Logan and Dennis say thats the way to go (and others) I will go with the proven re****s. The only resaon I can think of 4:10's in the MM is the weight of the car??? He really liked my MM. He has only seen one before and he was IMPREESED!!!! So I took him for a spin. The first thing he said was for a car that big to have that much PUNCH, (AWSOME). But I told him about the web site and gave him a card. ( Thanks SLOWPOKE!!) Then I told him about the Superchargers and stuff. Got him thinking about a MM!!!! Opinons????

[BillyGman]

There are a lot of guys out there who never want to tell you EVERYTHING they've done to their car to get it to go fast, as if it has to be kept a secret as if they're a professional racer or something. I've ment some guys at the track like that. Some of them will tell you the mods they've done, but they'll deliberately exclude some things. This guy must be one of them. Either the two Mustabgs you were refering to were different in their list of mods besides just the gear ratios, or he was talking about beating the Mustang w/the 4.10 gears up on the highway over and above 100 MPH.

[Patrick]

Good point! When I first seen the Mustang in the parking lot. It looked like a regular Mustang. But then I seen a Steeda emblem on the left rear windows. So I got courious. He told me I could look underneath the car and look and all the stuff under thier! But it was dark. I was going to look under the hood but he had to leave. I just met him tonight and he is just starting here. So I dont to make waves. Whatever he has its still a Fast Stang!!! We will see!! Hey what about the weight differnace??? Ideas?

[BillyGman]

What I'm convinced of as a result of having installed many performance mods in my car that included experimenting w/three different gear ratios (3.55's, 4.10's, and 4.56's) is that w/real heavy cars like the Marauder is, the gear ratio will NOT make as much of a pefromance difference as it will in a lighter car. I have absolutely no doubt about that. There still could be something going on w/our cars' computers and/or transmissions that prevents them from taking full advantage of the gear changes, but that's merely a guess on my part. the weight is a definate factor as far as I'm concerned. For the ultimate in quartermile performance 4.56's are the way to go, but you will lose some top end acceleration power over 100 MPH w/4.56's.

But w/the 4.10's i felt no top end loss at all. Atleast not up to 120 MPH, and I've never taken the car past 120 MPH. I don't see any joy in going faster than that nor any need. And even on the dragstrip, the fastest Marauder here (Lidio's Trilogy Marauder) which is turning mid 11 second ET's still only has a trap speed of about 115 MPH. So I see no reason for concern about losing any top end over the 120 MPH mark.

[Patrick]

Maybe this will help. All this Mod stuff is Greek to me! Gears stats plugs sway bars and all this gets confusing! I am not a mechanic! Maybe I should learn to be!. This is what my MM to be. To be stealthy and have just somemore get up and go. I am not looking to get a MM too just kick butt. If I had the money I would buy another one and put a supercharger in her. But thats not me! I just my MM to have sum more get up and go. The look off the car is enough for me! And the looks I get is awsome!! That is enough for me! And the respect!! Understand??

[BillyGman]

Not quite. What exactly do you want the car to do? Do you want to be able to leave rubber from a dead punch of the gas pedal w/out the use of the brakes? or do you just want a noticeable difference in the way the car accelerates from a dead stop w/out laying any rubber? or do you want both? I just don't quite understand what you want out of the car Patrick. Be more specific please.

It says in your signature that you already have a "stage 1". I'm not completely familiar w/all of Dennis's "stages". Doesn't "stage 1" include a chip, stat, and 4.10 gears? So if you have all of that, then the next thing is you need some headers and free flowing exhaust. But it depends what you expect to get out of your next stage of mods. Headers and exhaust will give you a somewhat noticeable difference in acceleration, but you're still gonna feel a bit of a lack of low-end torque unless you also go w/a stallion Torque converter w/the stall speed set to 3000 RPM and that's in addition to the Headers and exhaust upgrade. But if you do all of that, then you will get the car to move off the line pretty good, and even though it won't be a night and day difference in acceleration to what you have now, it WILL be a difference, and one that is somewhat noticeable.

However, you have to be sure that in your quest for more low-end torque, you will not decide to go w/a Supercharger in the future. because if that's where this is gonna lead, then you don't need the stall speed on the stallion torque converter set at 3000 RPM's, and infact you won't need another torque converter other than your stock one at all. Nor will you have to get the exhaust upgraded either. And all the upgrades I've mentioned (stallion converter, headers, and hi-perf exhaust) are gonna come to a total cost of about half the price of a complete S/Cer kit while delivering about half the performance increase as a S/cer will also.

So you have to look ahead and make some decisions as to exactly how far you want to go w/this car in relation to how quick you want it to be. The faster you want to go, the more $$ it will cost you. It's a matter of your budget.

I got to a point w/my mods list where I wasn't going to be able make the car any faster w/anything else but a S/cer. I had nowhere else to go w/it. But I wish that I had decided on a S/Cer in the first place, because I wouldn't have bought some of the things that idid for the car. If you're gonna S/C the car in the future, then you won't need to buy $100 sparkplugs, nor an $800 torque converter, nor even have a $500 gear change done either.

But if you believe that you will never S/C the car, then you're going to want the new Torque converter, and the gears, and perhaps an exhaust upgrade as well, all to make the car get up and go. Just don't expect a night and day difference w/those things. A difference? Yes there will be. But the car isn't gonna pin you back in the seat when you hammer the gas pedal down. There is no right or wrong w/this, it's just a matter of having realistic expectations. Don't expect to obtain a major difference in the way the car accelerates, if you're going to spend $1,000 for performance upgrades, cuz HP costs $$$$$.

[TAF]

It's not just the weight that warrants the taller gears...It's the darn size of our rear tires! At 28.5"...these things pretty much dwarf what you'd see on a Mustang...for which a Mustang with 4.10s is a pretty radical/steep upgrade. That's why the "Stang guys are always impressed when you say you have 4.10s in there.

Go with the 4.10s Patrick. And come down here to get them done! We've got the best wrenches within 500 miles to do them for you.

[martyo]

It's not just the weight that warrants the taller gears...It's the darn size of our rear tires! At 28.5"...these things pretty much dwarf what you'd see on a Mustang...for which a Mustang with 4.10s is a pretty radical/steep upgrade. That's why the "Stang guys are always impressed when you say you have 4.10s in there.

Go with the 4.10s Patrick. And come down here to get them done! We've got the best wrenches within 500 miles to do them for you.


Wow, who did you plagerize this information from? :eek:

[TAF]

Wow, who did you plagerize this information from? :eek:Were ALL my info comes from...the BEST "collection" of wrenches anywhere...the boys at Team Ford.:up:

[martyo]

Were ALL my info comes from...the BEST wrenches anywhere...the boys at Team Ford.:up:

You scared me for a minute there. You actually sounded like you knew what you were talking about.

[TAF]

You scared me for a minute there. You actually sounded like you knew what you were talking about.
Never fear...I just "pass it on down...pass it on down."

[GordonB]

Logan and others,
Do you have to CHIP it or can you just re-flash when you change gears to 4.10? I'd prefer to keep the ECM Stock (looking) for warranty purposes.
Thanks,
GordonB

[Patrick]

Thanks Billy for your input. As far as stage 1 in my sig its refering to the flowmasters. Other than having the windows tinted its all STOCK!!

And here is how I am going to solve this once and for all. Todd you know I dont mornings. So the breakfast thing AINT happening. I think thats been covered about a thousand times. So lets do this. Set something up with you and team ford and who ever else want to. Given enough notice I can get a day off during the week or whatever. Weekend or just whenever. The only way I can do this is to actually drive a mod MM!!! Right. And talk to the people in person not by email!

Like I stated earlier All the stuff everyone is doing to the MM is like talking Greek to me!! Lets see if we can set something up. OK?

Patrick