Takes A Lickin, Keeps On Tickin!!!!

[champ1173]

So, I'm hearing a ticking. No idea what it is. I thought maybe the oil was low. I was a couple hundred miles past 3000, n was getting an oil change in a couple of days, when I first heard the ticking. I checked the oil, and it didn't register. Put 2qts in, and still nothing! I put 2 more in, and finally it was good, but still ticking. My MM has 76,000 miles, the CEL isn't on, and I haven't noticed any change in performance. I noticed that it doesn't tick when I first start it up. I'd say about when it gets warmed up. I can't hear it in the car. WTF is going on? When I got the oil change, I mentioned it to the guy there. He said I could always put in 5-30, or 10-30, and that might help. So he put in 5-30. Didn't work! I was in a drive thru today, which amplified the ticking, and thought I'd rev it up a lil, and see if it went away. It did, but then I heard rattling! Kinda like a heat shield rattling sound. When it came back to idle, the ticking came back. Tick, tick, tick. The noise seems to be coming from the rear of the motor, on the drivers side. Like a lifter tap.
Now I started reading the thread SPARK KNOCK, and wondered if I'm having the same problem he is. I didn't want to highjack his thread, so I figured, maybe it's something different. Someone on there said possibly bad gas. Is there something I could add to the tank, or would I have to wait till the gas is gone? Someone else said, to return the car back to stock. How would that have an effect, 93 Octane tune? Anybody else have any ideas? I was planning on coming to Louisville, and already have a room, but not knowing what's wrong, kinda worries me for a long drive.

[Zack]

Your car was 4 quarts low on oil.
Sounds like you sealed its fate.

No help to offer you

[RR|Suki]

4 quarts low in 3k miles? That would be my first concern. Either way, that's rough man.

[champ1173]

Your car was 4 quarts low on oil.
Sounds like you sealed its fate.

No help to offer you

I don't like your tone! You're a jerk! I want my records back!:bigcry:

[champ1173]

I was just kidding Zack. I really need to get my eyes and ears checked out! So I checked the oil, and it wasn't registering again! Well, at least that's what I thought. The synthetic was so clear I could barley see it on the dipstick. I took me a few times pulling it in and out, and getting it in the right light to see it. So, I actually put more oil in then I needed to. Is it a stupid thing? Yes, of course it is! It didn't run long before I went to get the oil changed. After I checked the oil, I put the car back to stock, and started it up. No ticking, until it warmed up. This time I didn't hear the ticking coming from the motor, but from the exhaust. It really sounds like it's coming from the drivers side cat. This would kinda make sense with the rattling I heard, when I revved it up. The engine runs smooth. Does this sound like the cat is going? I've been wanting to have them taken off as it is. This would just push me to get it done sooner.

[L.Mark]

Either way...rip em off...sooo much better!!!!

[blkZooM]

can you post a video, a bit hard to give you ideas or opinions on what it might/could be without one. Get a start up video when the car is already warmed up.

[champ1173]

Well, I'm really bummed out right now. My ticking has turned into something else, and it doesn't sound good. Probably shouldn't have drove to Louisville. Zack said it's definitely something internal. I stopped by a mechanic and let him listen to it, and he said it sounds like I threw a rod! He also said I should just buy another motor. This is something I'm having a hard time believing. I'd post a video, but I'm somewhat computer illiterate. Anyways, here's why I'm having a problem believing it.

Car runs great!
No CEL light.
Has oil.
No leaking.
I don't hear any noise in idle, except a faint ticking.
And, doesn't start ticking until it warms up.

Now, I don't know that much about these engines, I've only really played with small block Chevys. It sounds like the rocker arms are hitting the valve cover, as the rpms are going up, and on the drivers side. At least, that's what I would think it would be if it were a Chevy. It sounds like I'm low on oil, but it's not! Wouldn't a rod knock be constant? Like, right at start up, or idling? Where the heck would I even look for another motor, and someone to put it in, in Illinois? I know the dealership would rape me! I also wonder if my insurance would pay for it, and I pay some deductible. This is really depressing! How much would this cost me? Anyone have any answers for me? I have no idea what to do.

[ctrlraven]

When you start the car after it has sat for a day or so, do you hear a chain rattle sound during startup?

The ticking sound doesn't develop until the car warms up?

Does the ticking sounds go away if you give it just a little bit of throttle?

[champ1173]

When you start the car after it has sat for a day or so, do you hear a chain rattle sound during startup?

The ticking sound doesn't develop until the car warms up?

Does the ticking sounds go away if you give it just a little bit of throttle?

1) Yes, and that just started.
2) Yes
3) Yes, ticking goes away, but the rocker arm rattling the valve cover sound, seems to replace it, and gets louder as the rpms get higher. Once it shifts it's gone, and then gets louder again right before it shifts. There is definitely something going on, on the drivers side. I don't hear anything from the front of the engine. All from that cover.

[Curless]

Well, I'm really bummed out right now. My ticking has turned into something else, and it doesn't sound good. Probably shouldn't have drove to Louisville. Zack said it's definitely something internal. I stopped by a mechanic and let him listen to it, and he said it sounds like I threw a rod! He also said I should just buy another motor. This is something I'm having a hard time believing. I'd post a video, but I'm somewhat computer illiterate. Anyways, here's why I'm having a problem believing it.

Car runs great!
No CEL light.
Has oil.
No leaking.
I don't hear any noise in idle, except a faint ticking.
And, doesn't start ticking until it warms up.

Now, I don't know that much about these engines, I've only really played with small block Chevys. It sounds like the rocker arms are hitting the valve cover, as the rpms are going up, and on the drivers side. At least, that's what I would think it would be if it were a Chevy. It sounds like I'm low on oil, but it's not! Wouldn't a rod knock be constant? Like, right at start up, or idling? Where the heck would I even look for another motor, and someone to put it in, in Illinois? I know the dealership would rape me! I also wonder if my insurance would pay for it, and I pay some deductible. This is really depressing! How much would this cost me? Anyone have any answers for me? I have no idea what to do.

Another engine is not going to be cheap, they are hard to come by. We have done them before here at my shop. If you look at shop talk you can see a write up on what all we did for seanycash (member) out of Iowa. We are in Michigan, not too far from you. If we can be of service to you please feel free to call us! 1-616-988-1315 ask for Chris

[champ1173]

Another engine is not going to be cheap, they are hard to come by. We have done them before here at my shop. If you look at shop talk you can see a write up on what all we did for seanycash (member) out of Iowa. We are in Michigan, not too far from you. If we can be of service to you please feel free to call us! 1-616-988-1315 ask for Chris

From what I've explained, do you think it sounds like a rod?

[Curless]

1) Yes, and that just started.
2) Yes
3) Yes, ticking goes away, but the rocker arm rattling the valve cover sound, seems to replace it, and gets louder as the rpms get higher. Once it shifts it's gone, and then gets louder again right before it shifts. There is definitely something going on, on the drivers side. I don't hear anything from the front of the engine. All from that cover.

Sounds like you have spun the cam journals in the head on the drivers side....maybe not but something is causing the noise, driving or running the engine much at this point is a big no no.

[ctrlraven]

Chain rattle is from slack in the chain and smacking against the chain arm and guide until the tensioner builds up pressure to take the slack out of the chain.

The ticking sound could be the tensioner seal blown out, at cold temps the oil is at it's thickest and once the car warms up the oil thins out.

I just replaced tensioners, guides and arms on both driver and passengers side. The ticking sound sounded like an exhaust leak as it was very rhythmic but would go away just raising the rpms up past 1200 rpms. Once I figured it out that it was not an exhaust leak it took me a while to figure out where the noise was actually coming from as it resonated throughout the engine (could hear it in the intake manifold pretty well) then I tracked it down to the front timing cover just at the top of it on the passenger side. Sure enough when the cover came off all the plastic was gone off the passenger side chain guide (passenger tensioner was good) and the driver side tensioner had a blown seal and wasn't holding much pressure at all.

I can't say for sure that you have the same issue but it's possible.

My two threads on my issue
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92299
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92538

[champ1173]

Sounds like you have spun the cam journals in the head on the drivers side....maybe not but something is causing the noise, driving or running the engine much at this point is a big no no.

That could be it, and running the engine is something I don't want to do as little as possible. How much would you charge to fix that? Could you PM me, and give me a ballpark number? I'm not sure if I'd make it driving to you, but It did make it from Louisville. I'm sure your a lot closer than that. It would cost me an arm and leg to have it towed to you.

[champ1173]

Chain rattle is from slack in the chain and smacking against the chain arm and guide until the tensioner builds up pressure to take the slack out of the chain.

The ticking sound could be the tensioner seal blown out, at cold temps the oil is at it's thickest and once the car warms up the oil thins out.

I just replaced tensioners, guides and arms on both driver and passengers side. The ticking sound sounded like an exhaust leak as it was very rhythmic but would go away just raising the rpms up past 1200 rpms. Once I figured it out that it was not an exhaust leak it took me a while to figure out where the noise was actually coming from as it resonated throughout the engine (could hear it in the intake manifold pretty well) then I tracked it down to the front timing cover just at the top of it on the passenger side. Sure enough when the cover came off all the plastic was gone off the passenger side chain guide (passenger tensioner was good) and the driver side tensioner had a blown seal and wasn't holding much pressure at all.

I can't say for sure that you have the same issue but it's possible.

My two threads on my issue
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92299
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92538

That doesn't sound as bad as I thought it would be. Sounds cheaper too!

[clmrt]

http://rockford.craigslist.org/ptd/4366462040.html

If you do need an engine...

[ctrlraven]

That doesn't sound as bad as I thought it would be. Sounds cheaper too!
Depends on who you have do it! Dealership could want $800-1200 to do it.

I paid about $150-175 in parts, ordered chain guides, arms and front timing cover gasket from Advance Autoparts and bought the metal tensioners (with safety ratchet system) from Rock Auto. Another MM member do the actual labor work and gave me a great deal.

It's hard to say what the issue is without pulling the timing cover and valve cover to really see.

Can you record and post of video of the noise?

[champ1173]

Depends on who you have do it! Dealership could want $800-1200 to do it.

I paid about $150-175 in parts, ordered chain guides, arms and front timing cover gasket from Advance Autoparts and bought the metal tensioners (with safety ratchet system) from Rock Auto. Another MM member do the actual labor work and gave me a great deal.

It's hard to say what the issue is without pulling the timing cover and valve cover to really see.

Can you record and post of video of the noise?

Honestly, $800-1200 doesn't seem as bad as I thought it would be. My big problem, is finding someone to do the work. I would've had the mechanic that listened to it, and said it's a rod do it, (Which is why I let him listen to it.) but I'm now leery on that. I would think I need someone that knows something about these motors.

[tbone]

I would not have a guy that says to "just replace your motor because it's making a noise" have the honor of putting air in my tires.

[champ1173]

I would not have a guy that says to "just replace your motor because it's making a noise" have the honor of putting air in my tires.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Curless]

P.M. sent sir!

[champ1173]

Well, I called an old friend of mine, who's had a bunch of Mustangs, a Kenny Brown Marauder S, and a crap load of fast, show worthy cars! I asked him if he knew a mechanic I could trust, and he did! My MM is being towed to his shop on Friday. I'll keep you all posted on what his analysis is. They say everything happens for a reason, and I'm really starting to believe it. 98 Taurus gets into an accident, and I buy the MM. A few months later, Taurus gets into another accident, totalled, and I get a check for $3660! Been looking for another car, MM has problem, Mechanic buys cars from auction, sells them, will take people to the auction, buy the car they want, and lets you finance! Everythings coming up Millhouse!

[champ1173]

http://rockford.craigslist.org/ptd/4366462040.html

If you do need an engine...

Thanks for letting me know. I hope I dont have to go that route, but that is a good deal. My friend that hooked me up with his guy, also said that he knew a guy who had a 03 MM engine for $500! Is my buddy for real on this, IDK. I guess I'll find out soon if he's full of crap.

[camelgrundle]

I had a very similar situation with my car and it was a rod. Brandy new motor thanks to dealership warranty I bought it from. dont want to scare you though hope all works out.

[champ1173]

I had a very similar situation with my car and it was a rod. Brandy new motor thanks to dealership warranty I bought it from. dont want to scare you though hope all works out.

I really hope not! There's a rattle when I first start it, and a motorcycle guy said it sounded like the chain, and that's happened to him before. After start up, until it gets hot, there's no noise, and the car runs smooth. When it heats up, there's no noise at idle, except for a faint tick that goes away when the gas is applied. Then, as the rpms go up I hear a noise, and it sounds the same as it did when it first started up. So I'm really hoping it's just the tensioner, and maybe have to put a new chain on. Though, I guess I wont know till the guy rips it open. If I do need another motor, I'll see if my buddy can come through on that motor that he says some other guy has, for $500. Depending on what the mechanic finds, I might be able to have my insurance pay for it, and then pay a $500 deductible. I guess I'll find out soon enough what the final verdict is.

[camelgrundle]

Yeah I had everything you just described but the rattle on start! Which could be a different noise like a exhaust manifold heat shield that's loose or broken but in your case I hope you are right! Good luck man.

[clmrt]

I'd but the motor anyway, rip it down and build it back up over the next year.

[ctrlraven]

Can you record a video of the noise and post it up?

[captain]

A little toyota trick I learned...keep a brown paper towel handy, hold the oily end of the dipstick in the towel.... it, (the paper) will reveal the true oil reading.

[Zack]

Sounds like you have spun the cam journals in the head on the drivers side....maybe not but something is causing the noise, driving or running the engine much at this point is a big no no.

Spun the cam journals?

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/picard-fail-293x300.jpg

[champ1173]

Wow! This sounds expensive. Well, I got about $4000 to throw at it, if need be. So all will be good. I'll let everyone know what the final outcome is. Thanks for all your suggestions, and what might be the problem. I was gonna use the money for another car, but s**t happens!

[JoeBoomz]

Spun the cam journals?


That's teh second worse thing that could happen next to a spun crankshaft.

[champ1173]

That's teh second worse thing that could happen next to a spun crankshaft.

Wow, really? I can't tell you how much I want to know what's going on. I gotta wait till Saturday to find out what the verdict is. I'm almost certain that the tensioner went, and the chains loose in there. I just hope that's all that's wrong. I'm almost through 5, of the stages of grief. :( The weather is getting nicer, and all I can do is wait. This sucks!

[Curless]

Spun the cam journals?

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/picard-fail-293x300.jpg

O.K., what would you call them? Cam bearings???? No, they are the journals in the head that the cams ride on are they not?

[champ1173]

O.K., what would you call them? Cam bearings???? No, they are the journals in the head that the cams ride on are they not?

I'll be honest, I've never heard of a cam journal before. Bearings yes, journals no. But I'm not a mechanic, and I'm sure there's more that I've never heard of either. I told someone at my work, that I might have spun a cam journal, and he said, "That must be a big motor, if they put a book in it!" Dumb ass!

[Curless]

I'll be honest, I've never heard of a cam journal before. Bearings yes, journals no. But I'm not a mechanic, and I'm sure there's more that I've never heard of either. I told someone at my work, that I might have spun a cam journal, and he said, "That must be a big motor, if they put a book in it!" Dumb ass!


Our engines do not have cam bearings, they are on top of the head, and sit in "towers" that are cast when the head is cast. They are drilled with oiling holes and the cams actually ride right on them....no bearings needed. I have an engine here that was run low on oil and the cams seized to the heads....there by "spinning" the "journal" or "tower" that the cam rides in. I'll shoot a pic tomorrow.

[champ1173]

Our engines do not have cam bearings, they are on top of the head, and sit in "towers" that are cast when the head is cast. They are drilled with oiling holes and the cams actually ride right on them....no bearings needed. I have an engine here that was run low on oil and the cams seized to the heads....there by "spinning" the "journal" or "tower" that the cam rides in. I'll shoot a pic tomorrow.

I kinda understand what your saying. I was just looking at some pictures of our engines. This is totally different than the small block Chevys I used to monkey with.

[Zack]

You can wear a cam journal from lack of oil, but you can't spin anything. The cam rides in machined aluminum...no bearing

[champ1173]

You can wear a cam journal from lack of oil, but you can't spin anything. The cam rides in machined aluminum...no bearing

I really hope I didn't due that.

[Zack]

Sell it to me cheap

[justbob]

I can fix whatever it is for $3990.00 :)


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[champ1173]

Sell it to me cheap

That's not gonna happen. I'll buy another motor if need be.

[Curless]

You can wear a cam journal from lack of oil, but you can't spin anything. The cam rides in machined aluminum...no bearing

Since you feel the need to be exZACKEd....the cam rides on a micro thin layer of pressurized oil, if it actually rode on the machined aluminum surface it would not run for long:flamer:

[ctrlraven]

Since you feel the need to be exZACKEd....the cam rides on a micro thin layer of pressurized oil, if it actually rode on the machined aluminum surface it would not run for long:flamer:
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/210/119/9b3.png

[champ1173]

Verdict is in. I guess I spun a rod. The mechanic said he could rebuild it for $3000.

[lji372]

I believe you can get a long block from engine guys with a 3yr 100k warranty for that. Plus installation of coarse

[champ1173]

I believe you can get a long block from engine guys with a 3yr 100k warranty for that. Plus installation of coarse

I thought about you, when my buddy said he found a motor for $500. He supposedly hasn't been able to get ahold of that guy.

[lji372]

I thought about you, when my buddy said he found a motor for $500. He supposedly hasn't been able to get ahold of that guy.

Yeah I thought about me too when I saw that :lol:

The last used motor I bought came with a trilogy, I'm hoping for the same deal :rolleyes:

[Spectragod]

Yeah I thought about me too when I saw that :lol:

The last used motor I bought came with a trilogy, I'm hoping for the same deal :rolleyes:

What spun in yours? :P

[lji372]

What spun in yours? :P

Don't make me drive back through that place you call a state :mad:

:laugh:

[Spectragod]

Don't make me drive back through that place you call a state :mad:

:laugh:

What would it take to make you come back???? It would save me on some shipping.;)

[lji372]

I'll buy you a donut if you hand deliver :D

[champ1173]

Yeah I thought about me too when I saw that :lol:

The last used motor I bought came with a trilogy, I'm hoping for the same deal :rolleyes:

It would have been nice if I could spend the $3000 on a trilogy!