Cobra SC Setup on Marauder...?

[hitchhiker]

Has anyone approached an SVT Ford dealer about ordering and installing the 4.6 DOHC Mustang Cobra Supercharger setup on a Marauder?

I am assuming that the COBRA parts could be ordered and isntalled at the dealer.

How about it folks...Do you think this would be a viable option?

The Trilogy setup is currently being evaluated by the CARB (California Air Resources Board) with the goal of making the Trilogy setup smog legal in California.

I was jsut wondering that if, since the COBRA S/C setup on the Mustangs has already been approved, this would be a good alternative to aftermarket S/C approaches.

Your comments would be very interesting and appreciated.

Thanks,

David

[BillyGman]

Not a bad thought, but I think that the Trilogy company is way ahead of you. I'll explain what I mean by that in a minute. But first allow me to point out something to you. No dealer is going to install the Cobra Supercharger on a Marauder w/out the manufacture's warantee being voided (I mean the car manufacture: Ford/Mercury).

If it didn't come from the factory like that, then the manufacture isn't going to cover an engine failure since the dealer (or anyone else) slapped a S/Cer on it. And the dealer isn't going to keep that from them in the case of a warantee claim.

Furthermore, even though the Cobra and Marauder share the same cylinder heads, as well as the same engine displacement of 4.6L, there are differences in the way the outer hardware and accessories are mounted on the Cobra engine as compared to the Marauder. So that in itself would neccessatate the need for the Cobra S/Cer kit to be altered and to a certain degree, re-engineered if you want it to work correctly on a Marauder.

And that's where Trilogy Motorsports has already stepped in and performed this needed engineering for you. The fact of the matter is, that the Trilogy supercharger kit has been designed, and specifically engineered for the Marauder alone. Included in the Trilogy kit for the Marauder, is the same Eaton model M112 supercharger that comes on the 2003 Cobra right from the Ford factory. Which is also the same Eaton model supercharger that the Ford Lightning is equipped with from the Ford factory.

There are subtle differences in the way the Eaton M112 in the Trilogy kit has been adapted for the Marauder (such as the intake duct that sweeps to the driver's side of the car rather than to the passenger side like on the Cobra). But it's the same basic Supercharger as is used on the Cobra and the Lightning. All three Superchargers are the Eaton M112. The "112" stands for 112 cubic inches. Eaton has produced four sizes of Superchargers. The M112 model being the largest one.

But keep in mind too, that a portion of the plumbing, the intercooler coolant lines, hoses, alternator bracket, and related hardware, as well as everything right down to the two belts that are used (supercharger belt, and serpentine belt), have been re-enginnered, altered, and/or specifically made for the Marauder that are included in the Trilogy kit. And no Ford/Mercury dealer is going to do that for you in order to get the Cobra S/Cer installed on your Marauder. Because if they did, it would end up costing them and you a lot more $$ and time than the Trilogy kit would cost you.

How do I know all of this? I've looked into all of this stuff already.
So you see, Trilogy Motorsports has already done this for you. So if that's what you're interested in, then the Trilogy set-up would be the way to go, and when it comes to roots type superchargers, it's the ONLY way to go for the Marauder. So it isn't coincidental that 25 Trilogy S/Cer kits have been sold for the Marauder already.

I guess you haven't read the thread I've started about the Eaton Supercharger in the Trilogy forum of this board since most of this was revealed in there. ;) But anyway, I hope that this helps you, and sheds some light on the subject for you.

[PAPAJOHN]

Has anyone approached an SVT Ford dealer about ordering and installing the 4.6 DOHC Mustang Cobra Supercharger setup on a Marauder?

I am assuming that the COBRA parts could be ordered and isntalled at the dealer.

How about it folks...Do you think this would be a viable option?

The Trilogy setup is currently being evaluated by the CARB (California Air Resources Board) with the goal of making the Trilogy setup smog legal in California.

I was jsut wondering that if, since the COBRA S/C setup on the Mustangs has already been approved, this would be a good alternative to aftermarket S/C approaches.

Your comments would be very interesting and appreciated.

Thanks,

David

You may be interested in an article that appeared in the May issue of Muscle Mustangs magazine. It showed a photo presentation of a Pande installation on a Marauder

[BillyGman]

yep, I saw that too. Quite an interesting read. I didn't think to mention that to Dave since he was refering to a Roots type S/Cer whereas that article was concerning the installation and tune of a Centrifugal type S/Cer......

[Marauderman]

Dennis Reinhart has already installed a Cobra '03 motor in an '04 MM.....Check his Forum.......

[BillyGman]

....but Hitchhiker was asking about merely installing a S/Cer on his existing motor. And you are talking about doing an entire engine swap. that's a whole different story, and would require a whole lot more cash than simply installing a S/Cer set-up on your existing motor. We're talking apples to oranges now.

Just because you can get a Cobra engine in the Marauder doesn't neccessarily mean that the Supercharger set-up itself is the exact same thing, and is interchangeable from one engine to the other. And that's what Hitchiker was asking about as far as I understood it. Right? Or am I missing something here?

[89lxbill]

I would like to see one with a Kenne-Bell setup. Cobras are screaming with this swap.

[SouLRioT]

From the way I read it, Billy is on the same wave length as me. Just to add a little more though. From what I've seen posted, the trillogy set up will be offered in the ford motorsports catalog. And no mater what you do you'll lose your waranty.

[01True BlueGT]

This should help your decision. These are dealer list prices.
lower intake 554.77
spacer(elbow) 386.56
supercharger 1740.05
cooler 735.42
intercooler 576.48
add another 1-2k for misc. and the Trilogy is a great deal.

[Ross]

I would like to see one with a Kenne-Bell setup. Cobras are screaming with this swap.

I know very little about SC, except what I have learned from this board. But after seeing everything that I have seen, I have learned that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Kenny Brown, Trilogy, Dennis Reinhart all do things somewhat differently, and all do things very well. Since Kenne Bell hasn't really joined in the party, I would love to see that set up on a few Marauders for comparison. If he wants a car to put his set up on free, for experimentation purposes, he can call me!

[MM03MOK]

Since Kenne Bell hasn't really joined in the party, I would love to see that set up on a few Marauders for comparison. If he wants a car to put his set up on free, for experimentation purposes, he can call me!World's First Kenne Bell Supercharged Marauder

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_17_208.gif EFFSTER!!!

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6163

[Ross]

Aaahhh, I forgot about Effster. Maybe I've just missed it, but I haven't seen much about his Kenne Bell SC. Went back and looked at some of his old posts about it. I'd love to hear more about it. Effster, you out there?

[01True BlueGT]

If I'm not mistaken, Kenne Bell just makes the supercharger for the 03-04 Cobra. It fits on the stock intake and uses the stock intercooler. So, I wonder were he got the lower intake from, unless he used a stock cobra intake.

[martyo]

So, I wonder were he got the lower intake from, unless he used a stock cobra intake.

All custom made. It is a thing of sheer beauty! Never, ever underestimate the Eff!!

[01True BlueGT]

All custom made. It is a thing of sheer beauty! Never, ever underestimate the Eff!!
NICE!!!! I wish I had that kinda talent. :bows:

[hitchhiker]

Not a bad thought, but I think that the Trilogy company is way ahead of you. I'll explain what I mean by that in a minute. But first allow me to point out something to you. No dealer is going to install the Cobra Supercharger on a Marauder w/out the manufacture's warantee being voided (I mean the car manufacture: Ford/Mercury).

If it didn't come from the factory like that, then the manufacture isn't going to cover an engine failure since the dealer (or anyone else) slapped a S/Cer on it. And the dealer isn't going to keep that from them in the case of a warantee claim.

Furthermore, even though the Cobra and Marauder share the same cylinder heads, as well as the same engine displacement of 4.6L, there are differences in the way the outer hardware and accessories are mounted on the Cobra engine as compared to the Marauder. So that in itself would neccessatate the need for the Cobra S/Cer kit to be altered and to a certain degree, re-engineered if you want it to work correctly on a Marauder.

And that's where Trilogy Motorsports has already stepped in and performed this needed engineering for you. The fact of the matter is, that the Trilogy supercharger kit has been designed, and specifically engineered for the Marauder alone. Included in the Trilogy kit for the Marauder, is the same Eaton model M112 supercharger that comes on the 2003 Cobra right from the Ford factory. Which is also the same Eaton model supercharger that the Ford Lightning is equipped with from the Ford factory.

There are subtle differences in the way the Eaton M112 in the Trilogy kit has been adapted for the Marauder (such as the intake duct that sweeps to the driver's side of the car rather than to the passenger side like on the Cobra). But it's the same basic Supercharger as is used on the Cobra and the Lightning. All three Superchargers are the Eaton M112. The "112" stands for 112 cubic inches. Eaton has produced four sizes of Superchargers. The M112 model being the largest one.

But keep in mind too, that a portion of the plumbing, the intercooler coolant lines, hoses, alternator bracket, and related hardware, as well as everything right down to the two belts that are used (supercharger belt, and serpentine belt), have been re-enginnered, altered, and/or specifically made for the Marauder that are included in the Trilogy kit. And no Ford/Mercury dealer is going to do that for you in order to get the Cobra S/Cer installed on your Marauder. Because if they did, it would end up costing them and you a lot more $$ and time than the Trilogy kit would cost you.

How do I know all of this? I've looked into all of this stuff already.
So you see, Trilogy Motorsports has already done this for you. So if that's what you're interested in, then the Trilogy set-up would be the way to go, and when it comes to roots type superchargers, it's the ONLY way to go for the Marauder. So it isn't coincidental that 25 Trilogy S/Cer kits have been sold for the Marauder already.

I guess you haven't read the thread I've started about the Eaton Supercharger in the Trilogy forum of this board since most of this was revealed in there. ;) But anyway, I hope that this helps you, and sheds some light on the subject for you.I believe that you are right in what you say about the Trilogy setup. Infact, I have found the FLM dealer out here in Northern California which Lidio and Jerry worked with. I spoke to that customer and they are absolutely happy with Jerry's and Lidio's colaborative effort and product.

I was even quoted a price for installing the Trilogy kit at the dealership!

They are currently waiting to have the setup delared smog legal in California.

I just wanted to explore the concept of a COBRA parts transplant.

It looks like you have already done the analysis on this option and I appreciate your results/knowledge on the subject!

I also thank all the others who posted their .02 on this subject.

I will go for the Trilogy setup with Lidio's chip, Zac's control arms, the 410 gears, rear stud girdle, and the MMX Drive Shaft, later in the year. :beer:

Thanks and Best Regards,

David

[BillyGman]

here's what I know about that...... yes, I agree that it would be great to have the option of a screw type supercharger for our Marauders. I actually looked into this also, and wrote to both Kenne Belle and also to the people of Whipple through the Whipple Supercharger website. Screw type superchargers are atleast advertised to be even better than both the conventional roots type supercharger as well as the centrifugal designs as far as efficiency, and power out put.

But here's the potential negative possibilities of the screw type S/Cers as far as my understanding goes.......... I first have to say, that nobody from the Whipple company nor from the Kenne Belle company has even bothered to write back to me in order to answer my direct questions as to the possibilities of making a supercharger kit for our cars. And since it was well over a week ago that I've written to both of them, I can only conclude that they're not very interested in developing one for the marauder.
So that leaves me w/the impression that there likely will never be any kit made for the marauder, since 2004 is the second year, and apparently the last year of the production of Marauders from what we're hearing so far.

there are a lot more Mustangs and Cobras out there than there are Marauders. let's face it. How many Mustangs/Cobras do you see out there on the road, and how many Marauders have you seen in your day to day travels? So many of these comapnies that develop complete S/Cer kits other than Trilogy Motorsports, and Dennis Reinhart merely focus on the higher volume production cars. And the Marauder isn't a high volume production car. Therefore they neglect to have any real interest in catering to us MM owners like the vendors on this board do.

So we would be unrealistic to over look that. Because that my friends is the reality of this topic weather we like it or not. So we cannot rely on anyone to come up w/a supercharger kit that includes the screw type supercharger like the Kenne Belle or the Whipple ones for our Marauders. What I find rediculuos about the Whipple/Kenne Belle camp, is that they've produced complete supercharger kits for not only Mustangs, but Hummer's, a number of pick-up trucks, as well as even the Chysler PT Cruser of all vehicles!!!!! But yet, they neglect the Marauder. I mean come on. A PT Cruser???? Gimmie a break!!!

But to keep on-topic w/Hitcchiker's post and his question which was specifically about a roots type S/Cer for the Marauder, you have to alwys keep in mind that just because some company offers a supercharger that might fit on our Marauders (and they are few and far between), doesn't neccessarily mean that there is a complete kit for installing it on our cars.

And that one fact is of prime concern (or should be) when you talk about the Kenne Belle or Whipple S/Cer, or others. If youpurchase just the Supercharger, w/out having a completely developed kit specific for your car, then in order to install it properly on your car, you have to become your own engineer AND fabricator. And if you think that's an easy task, then just talk to Effster who has had to do just that w/the Kenne Belle Supercharger that he has installed on his car.

My hat goes off to him for what he has done w/his car and that S/Cer. But keep in mind that not only is he a professional mechanic, but he himself has told me that it's been a big hassle for him to embark on such a task.
Let me point out that it sounds to me that he has obtained some great HP and TQ numbers w/that system. But he did a lot of fabrication, and even some of his own enginnering simplt to be able to get it installed on his car. And going by what he has told me, I don't think that he has even ironed out all of the tuning issues yeat w/that whole system. And he has had it on now for awhile.

Let me put it toyou this way, I've installed the Kooks header myself on my Marauder, and have performed two gear changes successfully myself on the marauder(both 4.10's, and 4.56's). Both of those are big jobs. But I wouldn't ever attempt to install any supercharger myself w/out having a complete kit for it that was designed specifically for my vehicle. You're just asking for trouble if you do that. And if you're thinking about doing that in porder to save money or cut corners, you will be sorry that you made that choice in the longrun.

And it's for these reasons why I've previously pointed Hitchiker to the Trilogy kit. He's asked about a roots type S/Cer for our cars, and for that the best choice is simply the Trilogy kit. If you can't swing it, then you should just forget about it. IF I were to supercharge my Marauder, the Trilogy kit is what I would go with. That's my opinion ofcourse. But all I can say is even though I do not have a supercharger on my car at the present time, I HAVE done my homework on this entire issue.

And I must add that the Eaton supercharger (which is what the Trilogy kit includes) is NOT your run of the mill roots type S/Cer. It's been a long time in the making. In the 80's the Eaton/Magnuson company began to continue develpment of and upgrading it. And in 1989 Eaton stuck a deal w/Ford and engineered a kit to be installed at the Ford factory on their Thunderbird S/C cars. And since then the Eaton supercharger has also been used on several other cars as well as you probably already know, and the Eatom M112 supercharger used in the Trilogy kit and on the 2003 Cobra, is infact the 4th generation of Superchargers that the Eaton/Magnuson company has developed.

If anyone cares to read about how the Eaton supercharger differes from other roots type S/Cers and a brief history of it's development, then you can click on the following links. This is simply a small portion of the info that I uncovered while I was studying this whole topic.


www.Magnusonproducts.com/faq.htm

[Ross]

What Billy said. While I am always in favor of more options, if the Kenne Bell's and Whipple's aren't interested in our cars, we can't force them to come up with kits. On the other hand, we already are blessed with several outstanding SC's, PLUS good kits, tuning, etc. from some known and respected sources who stand behind their products. All in all, when it comes to SC's, we've got it pretty good. As for Effster, my hat is off to him and anyone else who can fabricate their own parts and make something work. I bow to such talent. :bows:

[89lxbill]

World's First Kenne Bell Supercharged Marauder

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_17_208.gif EFFSTER!!!

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6163

Sweet! Very interesting looking.

[89lxbill]

What Billy said. While I am always in favor of more options, if the Kenne Bell's and Whipple's aren't interested in our cars, we can't force them to come up with kits. On the other hand, we already are blessed with several outstanding SC's, PLUS good kits, tuning, etc. from some known and respected sources who stand behind their products. All in all, when it comes to SC's, we've got it pretty good. As for Effster, my hat is off to him and anyone else who can fabricate their own parts and make something work. I bow to such talent. :bows:

Maybe Trilogy would make an upgrade for theirs like the one for the 03 Cobra. For the guys that may want to step it up. Maybe with possible help from Effster.

[BillyGman]

Maybe Trilogy would make an upgrade for theirs like the one for the 03 Cobra. For the guys that may want to step it up. Maybe with possible help from Effster.

I think you've missed my point. The Cobra S/Cer would NOT be an "Upgrade" to the Trilogy kit since the Eaton S/Cer that the Trilogy kit includes is the same Eaton model M112 Supercharger. So how would the Cobra S/Cer be an "upgrade" as you so put it? Or were you talking about Trilogy possibly making a kit for the Cobra?

If you think you are gonna be able to accomplish what Effster did, all I can say is good LUCK. Cuz you're gonna need it. I don't know Effster well, but I have communicated w/him about what he did, and he was the one who told me himself that it's been a major undertaking. And that comes from him who is a professional mechanic. He also wasn't very quick torecommend doing what he did. Yes, I congratulated him for the great efort he has put forth in such an endeaver. But it was he himself who said to me that he wonders if it was even worth it. I'm not disputing the power #'s he's acheived at all.I'm only pointing out that he had to become his own engineer and fabricator to accomplish what he's done.

And w/a S/Cer that already has a kit for your car, you won't have to do any of that. You can talk to any of the guys here who have installed a S/Cer them self on their car and they will all tell you that installing a S/Cer that has a kit is a big enough job as it is. But to install one that doesn't have a kit, well, like I said.....good luck. I've seen the Trilogy instruction manual. Everything is mapped oput for you step by step w/color pictures on almost every page. And they're not generic pics or ones that are universal in any way. They are pics of a Marauder and it's mechanical parts as well as pics of all the supercharger kit parts. The thing comes in a loose leaf notebook. it's an A-1 manual. W/out that, and w/out a kit, I'd neber want to even think about attacking such a job.

[ParkRanger]

The Trilogy setup is currently being evaluated by the CARB (California Air Resources Board) with the goal of making the Trilogy setup smog legal in California.

Hiker:

Couldn't you just disconnect the S/C belt before the smog test and then reconnect after you passs the smog?

PR :cool4:

[89lxbill]

I think you've missed my point. The Cobra S/Cer would NOT be an "Upgrade" to the Trilogy kit since the Eaton S/Cer that the Trilogy kit includes is the same Eaton model M112 Supercharger. So how would the Cobra S/Cer be an "upgrade" as you so put it? Or were you talking about Trilogy possibly making a kit for the Cobra?

I don't think I made myself clear. I meant maybe they could adapt the twin screw to their manifold setup as an upgrade to their Eaton setup.

[hitchhiker]

The Trilogy setup is currently being evaluated by the CARB (California Air Resources Board) with the goal of making the Trilogy setup smog legal in California.

Hiker:

Couldn't you just disconnect the S/C belt before the smog test and then reconnect after you passs the smog?

PR :cool4:Smog checks out here are done by certified techs who have invested a lot of money in their specialized equipment. I doubt that one of them would risk their license to 'pass' a non certified setup. There is visual inspection portion they have to attest to.

A new car is considered smog legal for four years before the annual inspections start. So, if you don't resell you car and do the aftermarket S/C thing you may enjoy four years of of use, if you have it done on a new car.

I spoke with a good customer of Jerry and Lidio's, connected with a large FLM dealership, who is very happy with his install. It has since been tweaked a little by Lidio (Chip) for California's 91 octane gas. He is a Service Manager at that dealership and 'cool' with mods.

He said that Jerry (Trilogy) is currently in the process of getting the Trilogy setup certified smog legal in California.

He quoted me a good price for installing some power goodies in the future and as an added bonus, my folks live in the same town so this may be combinedwith a nice dose of mom's cooking and never-ending advise. :lol:

I would imagine that one would have to carry some kind of documentation to the smog shop after certification, since a local smog shop would not know of the cerification.

This has been a very informative thread and I appreciate ALL who have participated. :up:

Best Regards,

David

[FordNut]

Couldn't you just disconnect the S/C belt before the smog test and then reconnect after you passs the smog?

PR :cool4:
No way. Car wouldn't even run that way.

[jspradii]

If I'm not mistaken, Kenne Bell just makes the supercharger for the 03-04 Cobra. It fits on the stock intake and uses the stock intercooler. So, I wonder were he got the lower intake from, unless he used a stock cobra intake.

The performance guys in Raleigh, NC tell me that the stock lower for the '03 Cobra will fit the MM just fine. I'm looking into it.

[01True BlueGT]

No way. Car wouldn't even run that way.
When I talked to Jerry in Orlando, he said the car would run without the blower belt. He said it would run just like factory.

[89lxbill]

When I talked to Jerry in Orlando, he said the car would run without the blower belt. He said it would run just like factory.

I agree, it would probably run, but with the 38-42lb injectors most likely installed, I would have to say not like factory. :)

[FordNut]

When I talked to Jerry in Orlando, he said the car would run without the blower belt. He said it would run just like factory.
If we're talking about a centrifugal blower, maybe it would run ok. But I don't believe the same is true of a roots type blower, which is what the Cobra blower is.

[Warpath]

If I'm not mistaken, Kenne Bell just makes the supercharger for the 03-04 Cobra. It fits on the stock intake and uses the stock intercooler. So, I wonder were he got the lower intake from, unless he used a stock cobra intake.

I didn't read some of the longer posts since I am short on time. So, I hope I'm not repeating anything.

Anyway, some people with 03 Cobras are installing Kenne Bell's Blowzilla blower. I think max boost is something like 15-20 psi or more. They are getting around 625 rwhp. I would not expect a MM to get the same with this blower though. For one, MMs have autos where 03 Cobras have manual trannies. Secondly, compression ratio of an 03 Cobra is 8.5:1 whereas the MM is something like 9.5-10:1 I believe. The 03 Cobra motor is much more blower friendly as I understand. I could be wrong.

[BillyGman]

Perhaps it would run okay w/out the belt installed because of the bypass valve that the Eaton blower now has. In the past, roots type blowers did NOT have the bypass valve. Eaton adopted the use of them so that when the engine was in a styate of vacum before the supercharger kicked in and it went into boost, the engine would NOT have to drive the rotors and therefore would ave gas mileage.

So maybe because of this bypass valve, it would be okay running the blower w/out the belt.