Getting ready to drop 1.5

[clmrt]

I have Monroe Severe Duty front and rear shocks coming, including install kits / bushings, pucks, whatever you call them.
I have a quote out on a pair of -1.5" coils from coilspring.com.
I'm going to grab a pair of camber bolts.
I'm going to buy a pair or two of new bump stops.

I have a new floor jack and 4 jack stands.
I will buy a spring compressor.

Beyond the spring tool, I shouldn't need anything more than a good socket set and a torque wrench, right?

Before I fully commit to the drop, has anyone gone -1.5 and regretted it? Constant scraping issues, etc...

[fireandice9008]

Not having installed mine, what you've got listed looks and seems right. I wish I could be more help than that.

Mine is dropped 1.5 with eibach springs and KYB shocks with lowered bags in the rear. The only issues I run into is that plastic air deflector thing hangs down some and scrapes on some driveway and parking lot entrances. I have more scraping issues out of my exhaust, which it too low, than I do anything else. I love the fact mine is lowered, between the handling and the stance, it's worth it.

[Blk04MM]

My brother in law just cut 1 coil off stock springs and At first he wasn't pleased. But We did the car in the air on a lift and torqued it back down the same way.
After torquing it down on the ground today it lowered a little more. Some members say it'll settle a little lower as well. We want to cut another 1/2 off but He runs a 255/45 tire up front and don't want any rubbing/scrubbing issues with the fenders. Then We lowered the rear via sensor

Far as handling its night & day difference. Handles better, way less body roll and next to no rear drag when nailing it from a light (Rear doesn't drop)

If it doesn't settle more then We may cut another 1/2 but for now it's staying.

Next we are upgrading front struts, rear upper and lower control arms as well as watts link. Should handle 100% better

[clmrt]

Any major difficulties getting things off and back on to the car?

[Blk04MM]

None. I did mine from the bottom, undoing the lower control arm and saway bar bolts etc...

Some do it from the top undoing the upper control arm bolts

It's simple with the right tools especially a strut/spring compressor. That coil is deadly if it unloads on you

[clmrt]

1/2" drive torque wrench, and I read 100-120# depending on the bolts. Anyone have a torque reference for the suspension components?

Ima search now.

ahhhh...

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=71112&highlight=torque

[clmrt]

Holy chit - 166#?

3/4" torque wrench?

[clmrt]

WTH is the part number for our front springs?

Mine are not marked.

So far I have found on my search:

3W1Z-5310-DA
3W1Z-5310-EA
3W3Z-5310-AA (OEM, per Ford, via coilsprings.com sales guy)
3W1C-5310-C

The Marquis / Marauder spare parts catalog I have on my PC at home gives no specific difference between the two models.

I am inclined to go with 3W3Z-5310-AA, which is based on my VIN, as reported by Ford, to CS.COM. They want to know exactly what was OEM so they can nail the rate and length.

More to come.

[clmrt]

Good stuff

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_1202_choosing_springs_and _shocks_build_a_project_panthe r/

http://www.eatonsprings.com/2010autopricesheet.pdf

http://www.qa1.net/qa1_motorsports/1st-and-2nd-generationa-pro-coil-springs.html

http://www.eatondetroitspring.com/cuttingcoilspringscalculations/

10GSP550...

[Embassy]

Good stuff

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_1202_choosing_springs_and _shocks_build_a_project_panthe r/

http://www.eatonsprings.com/2010autopricesheet.pdf

http://www.qa1.net/qa1_motorsports/1st-and-2nd-generationa-pro-coil-springs.html

10GSP550...

Great links.

My car is lowered 1.5" in the front w/cut coils. However after seeing Limited's MM at the Kentucky meet, I might get aftermarket springs to drop the front 2" total.

[clmrt]

I'm still waiting for my parts from RockAuto. I think I'll cut my coils and use the $200 saved on new springs for window tint instead.

[lifespeed]

I'm still waiting for my parts from RockAuto. I think I'll cut my coils and use the $200 saved on new springs for window tint instead.

These cars really work well with stiffer springs up front. The guy from Carcraft agrees. But with stiffer springs you need more rebound damping to control it. And that is not Monroe or KYB . . . Good, cheap or easy. You'll only get 1 out of 3.

[clmrt]

I thought it was "pick any two".

Call me cheap and easy.

Anyway, I read every post in the world on this. Ima do what I set out to do, and this is the weekend for it.

[slickster]

Before and after pics will happen

[Guittard22]

I would have another place install I have had really bad luck with that company and have dropped to much cash to tell!

[clmrt]

Update - Passenger side coil is broken, so I need new springs. No tint for me.

Worst part is it I have the DS done. Now with new springs it means I have to do that one over again. Had I started on the PS, I would have seen it right away and wouldn't have wasted half a day working in the rain.

Best part is I have all the tools now (I still want a 21mm wrench for the upper ball) and it only takes me half an hour to get the strut out.

Notes to others thinking of doing this -

Get a *complete* set of deep sockets (24,22,21,20,19,18,13 for sure, so just get everything). I made the mistake of buying a "set", and it didn't have 2-3 of the sizes I needed. Most of my Saturday was wasted running back to the hardware store for sockets. Get a breaker bar. Or two. Get a set of metric wrenches. Get some metric hex keys. Get some penetrating fluid. Get a good floor jack and at least 2 stands.

I bought a $30 Hitachi 4.5" grinder and a cutting wheel. I cut the first spring like a dull knife through refrgerated butter - it took maybe 10 seconds. It did not heat the coil at all. I could touch the coil right up to the cut and felt little to no heat.

Our springs are indeed 3W3Z-5310-AA.

The rear shocks are very easy.

[lifespeed]

Helpful hint: when working on a 10-year-old car's suspension, don't re-use anything but the frame of the car. Any suspension component you remove should be replaced at this point in time and miles. If I were you I would change the lower control arms and tie rods while I was in there. New front end, precise steering and ride, etc. Way better than window tint IMHO.

I see you at least got the upper arms. Good job.

Edit: if you're lowering the car you'll want the SPC camber adjustment bolts to make sure you have the camber adjustment range to get you to about -0.5 degrees. This requires removing the lower control arms and slotting the frame using a rotary file for aluminum bit (sold separately). You may as well install new lower arms at this point (don't re-install old suspension parts). Yeah, I know cars cost a fortune. You'll be good for another 80K to 100K miles, though, and you will really notice the improvement.

[clmrt]

Sage advice - If it ain't broke, don't fix it. My budget going in was $500, and the goal was to drop the car a meaningful amount, learn a few things, and keep adding to my tool collection instead of paying a mechanic.

Going without buying springs was the most obvious compromise. I kinda knew that was a mistake before starting, and now it's pretty obvious - new springs are required when doing this - not only because one of the originals was broken, but also because it just makes good sense.

I do have the camber bolts. My alignment guy will install them. However, seeing as most everything else is in good condition (arms and bushings) and my budget is shot for a couple of months, I'm leaving the other bits for the future.

I am inspecting everything as I go. So far I have one slightly worn tie rod end mating surface. All other joints are clean, intact and have no play, no tears in the rubber boots. It's to the point now that I could do these things in under an hour if I had to, so I'm not worried about doing it at a later date.

I'm at 93k miles. I have no illusions that this is a young car, it's not. I will see that this car is well maintained, but I don't have the disposable resources to rebuild the entire front end while the parts are still in good condition. Future plans include a timing set inspection, cooling mod, and then I'll revisit the suspension.

[lifespeed]

Sage advice - If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I agree with the statement, but not your opinion of the condition of 100K mile suspension parts.


I am inspecting everything as I go. So far I have one slightly worn tie rod end mating surface. All other joints are clean, intact and have no play, no tears in the rubber boots. It's to the point now that I could do these things in under an hour if I had to, so I'm not worried about doing it at a later date.

I'm at 93k miles. I have no illusions that this is a young car, it's not. I will see that this car is well maintained, but I don't have the disposable resources to rebuild the entire front end while the parts are still in good condition. Future plans include a timing set inspection, cooling mod, and then I'll revisit the suspension.

Inspection of ball joints and bushings is not definitive. I own one of these cars too and rebuilt it at 96K. The difference was surprising and made me realize I should have rebuilt it a year or two earlier.

By the time suspension parts are noticeably sloppy you've been driving for years on bad parts. At 93K miles replacing it all is justified by wear alone. In nearly all cases in these cars the suspension wears out before the timing set.

[clmrt]

My suspension is not noticeably sloppy. Not in any way, even with the broken spring. If one can drive that way for years, then yay for me, I have years to go.

I get it, I really do. But I'm limited in funds. If my suspension is sloppy, I'm living with it and loving it. Ignorance is bliss, and when I do get around to replacing these parts, I'm sure there's a chance I'll notice the difference.

But hey -

My paint is shot.
My tires are going bald.
My #8 cylinder needs relief.
My radiator fan control module died.
My Montero has 232,000 miles on it and needs brakes. The Monty has noticeably sloppy suspension, by the way. It's been like that for years.

Anyway, if my remaining suspension components act like they are 10 years old...so what?

Getting the entire front suspension replaced *right now* because I'm undoing 16 bolts seems unnecessary. I'm at 93K, sure, but I'll put another 8K on it this year and come next spring, I'll be ready to do a little more.

If there was grit, play, squeaks, cracks, wear, rust, or damage in anything I saw under there, yes, I'd replace it.

I just want to drop the car.

Your sig has about $2900 in suspension and brakes. Great for you, I'm sure there's more. But I'm not you. I'm barely a home mechanic, with hardly any budget, and I'm learning, having fun, and I'm improving my car at the same time.

Quick and dirty, that's me.

Again - If I had the extra $400 to throw at control arms right now, I might. But I don't, not really. I hesitate to replace serviceable parts on my second car when I have other priorities in my life.

[MustangMoser]

Lol, most replies in threads like this are the replace everything with new race quality stuff type. Im like you OP, I'm not gonna spend 1000 plus on a set of headers when I can make a set of BBKs from a Cobra to work for less than half. Theres something to be said about "doing the job right/once" but when you live in the real world pay check to pay check that's not always possible.

If suspension feels tight keep riding.

[a_d_a_m]

My paint is shot. I think half of us could say that about at least one body panel or another. For me, it's hood and roof.


My #8 cylinder needs relief. It'll really need relief when it looks like this...
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w110/jackiegleason/MarauderHead/100_3658.jpg


I'm barely a home mechanic, with hardly any budget, and I'm learning, having fun, and I'm improving my car at the same time. You're not alone, so don't feel bad about that. I'm pretty much the same way.

[clmrt]

I feel pretty damn good about it.

Hood and roof, yep.

Springs are on the way, updates to follow.

[lifespeed]

Again - If I had the extra $400 to throw at control arms right now, I might. But I don't, not really. I hesitate to replace serviceable parts on my second car when I have other priorities in my life.

Carry on, soldier.

[clmrt]

Deleted - posted a link that I moved up a few posts...how to calculate the spring rate of a cut coil. The rate does increase.

I tried the calculations. Cutting 1.5 coils from a Moog spring should yield a rate of 436.

Maintaining my "quick and dirty" or "cheap and fast" methods, I have a set of Moogs ($75/pair shipped) on the way. I'll cut and install them once, let them settle, measure, make subjective conclusions, and go from there.

[MustangMoser]

Were the moogs for a vic?

[clmrt]

80668 for Marauder.

[clmrt]

Springs arrived. They have one more wrap than the stockers and stand an inch taller than an OEM with ~100k miles on it. I cut 1.75 coils off of the MOOG 80668. Drop at the top of the front license plate frame is 2.55cm, one inch exactly.

I'm sure it'll settle a bit over the next week, and the SPC bolts go in Monday / Tuesday. More to come.

[MustangMoser]

Looks mean. You're gonna make me drop mine.

[clmrt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSKa5827DfI

[clmrt]

We're having a beautiful Easter Sunday here in MN. Perfect day to wash the car and snap a few pics.

It has settled to -3.3cm, or -1.3" at the license plate bracket. Any more would be too much for appearance's sake, I think. Obviously dropped, not slammed.

It goes in tomorrow for alignment...

[slickster]

Sitin nice

[Embassy]

We're having a beautiful Easter Sunday here in MN. Perfect day to wash the car and snap a few pics.

It has settled to -3.3cm, or -1.3" at the license plate bracket. Any more would be too much for appearance's sake, I think. Obviously dropped, not slammed.

It goes in tomorrow for alignment...

Looks good. The front tire appear to be right at the wheel well's opening.

[clmrt]

Not quite a two finger gap.

Older pics -

[fireandice9008]

Looks good. What size tire are you running in the front?

[clmrt]

Stock all the way. The alignment is done, picking it up in an hour. It's at a friend's shop, I told him to take his time and dial in Carfixer's spec. He's concerned it may wander a bit, we'll see.

[clmrt]

Wander? Not a bit. Goes down the road like a sled.

Raybestos bolts #6111222
Carfixer spec

If you are in the TC Metro, see Dan at Penn Auto Care in Richfield, near 66th and Penn.

I'm going to drop the rear another 1/2" and then take a few more pics.

[clmrt]

I've got the car dropped to where I like it visually, almost level front-to-back with only a slight rake when at rest. It seems to me the air springs don't have enough rate when dropped to absorb big hits like railroad tracks. There might not be enough pressure in the bags for them to do their job.

Does anyone else with an aggressive drop run into this issue?

I'm going to put some dabs of blu-tack (sticky play-doh) on the bump stops then drive the hell out of it on a bad road near my house to see if it's bottoming. If it is, I'll bring it up a hair and look into low-profile bump stops.

[lifespeed]

I've got the car dropped to where I like it visually, almost level front-to-back with only a slight rake when at rest. It seems to me the air springs don't have enough rate when dropped to absorb big hits like railroad tracks. There might not be enough pressure in the bags for them to do their job.

Does anyone else with an aggressive drop run into this issue?

I'm going to put some dabs of blu-tack (sticky play-doh) on the bump stops then drive the hell out of it on a bad road near my house to see if it's bottoming. If it is, I'll bring it up a hair and look into low-profile bump stops.

Yes, the spring rate is lower with less air. For me this was a step in the right direction. The bump stops also need to be shorter. I used Energy Suspension 9.9154.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1323016&postcount=20

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=88840

[clmrt]

Thanks! I'lll look into that.

[lifespeed]

Also make sure your sway bar is not binding as it travels through the range of axle movement. This is definitely a problem with Addco rear bars, I don't know about the stock bar. Changing the length of the end links so the bar is parallel with the ground is the solution. Unbolt the links, pivot the sway bar down and see how far it can go before hitting the axle cover.

[tdewald52]

Looks good 'clmrt'.

However, one of your posts has me thinkin'---I'm gettin ready to replace my front springs and was going to grab a pair of the MOOG 80668 part number---then I noticed they are also spec'd for the CV, as well. From what you've seen, will these put my MM back to stock height, or lift it up to the CV height?

Thanks

[clmrt]

Lift. I cut 1.75 coils and got the desired 1.5 drop. Others have reported a lift when using the 80668 even on CVs and GMs, so on a MM I would certainly expect a lift over stock.

It seems the best way to get an OEM spring these days is to go with Eaton Detroit or Coilsprings.com. Either way, you pay custom prices of $200-250 delivered. I chose $95 delivered with a cut for a custom fit.

So yeah, I'd expect a lift. I would imagine 1/2 to one cut coil would get you back to stock but that's just a guess. Once you've done this it's a half-hour job to get the strut out, another 15 min to swap the coil, then another half-hour to install so you could experiment in one day and get exactly what you want. Springs do indeed settle, and I got an additional .25 drop over the first week.

[clmrt]

It's a bit bouncy in the rear.

I have it set so that there's some compressor action, but just enough so that it gives a little lift and some airbag pressure. The height is just where I want it.

With the bags set just so and the Monroe Severe Duty installed, it's too jouncy. This morning I did a spirited jaunt through our office park, rolling, twisting with some moderate bumps and heaves in the road. On the worst one, while accelerating uphill on a right-hand sweeper, the rear end took the hit (oof) but then launched into the air (boing) and I'm pretty sure I lost contact with the road. Not a good feeling.

I think I need more dampening.

[lifespeed]

It's a bit bouncy in the rear.

I have it set so that there's some compressor action, but just enough so that it gives a little lift and some airbag pressure. The height is just where I want it.

With the bags set just so and the Monroe Severe Duty installed, it's too jouncy. This morning I did a spirited jaunt through our office park, rolling, twisting with some moderate bumps and heaves in the road. On the worst one, while accelerating uphill on a right-hand sweeper, the rear end took the hit (oof) but then launched into the air (boing) and I'm pretty sure I lost contact with the road. Not a good feeling.

I think I need more dampening.

Make sure you aren't bottoming out on the bump stops or hitting the sway bar against the rear end cover when compressed.

It is an easy enough experiment to raise the rear back up and see if the spring/damping combination is more correct. It is helpful to see which direction the suspension needs to go.

My brother has a Marauder also, stock with 30K miles. He is completely dissatisfied with the rear suspension behavior. It is harsh and will tail wag when rapidly changing lanes. I don't have any tail wag issues with the upgrades I have done to mine, but have struggled to find the right damping adjustments in the rear. And I have adjustable shocks . . .

I have contemplated switching to coils in the rear, but will try a while longer with the air springs.

With non-adjustable shocks there is not much you can do about the ride if your problem is not related to hitting the bump stops.

[lifespeed]

On the worst one, while accelerating uphill on a right-hand sweeper, the rear end took the hit (oof) but then launched into the air (boing) and I'm pretty sure I lost contact with the road. Not a good feeling.

This sounds like you hit the bump stops.

[clmrt]

There wasn't any violence in it, just a big trampoline feeling which led me to believe otherwise but I suppose it's possible.

I'm reading up on your experiences with shock valving but I don't have the resources to drop $$ on adjustables. Maybe the HPP air spring? I think that's the spring you chose with a fairly underdamped shock?

[lifespeed]

There wasn't any violence in it, just a big trampoline feeling which led me to believe otherwise but I suppose it's possible.

I'm reading up on your experiences with shock valving but I don't have the resources to drop $$ on adjustables. Maybe the HPP air spring? I think that's the spring you chose with a fairly underdamped shock?

I have the Grand Marquis air springs, which may well be the same as HPP. Pretty sure they eventually switched to the softer air springs even for the CV sport and HPP. Only Marauder and Town Car got the stiffer ones.

One thing to keep in mind is (I believe) a thicker rear sway bar greatly reduces the correct rear spring rate in these cars. I filled up the gas tank this afternoon and the ride quality improved noticeably. I'm going to lower the rear a bit in an attempt to decrease the spring rate further, as this seems to be what the car wants with the current configuration.

Finding the right combination of ride and handling at the rear of these cars is not trivial. Rest assured a big sway bar changes the ride and calls for softer springs, while improving handling.

If adjustable shocks aren't in the cards there is very little you can do to affect the ride. Raising and lowering the rear, within reason, adjusts the spring rate. Generally, I think the Marauder might be better off with GM air springs, especially if other rear suspension upgrades are planned.

[clmrt]

"I filled up the gas tank this afternoon and the ride quality improved noticeably."

Same here - rides great with a full tank.

I think I'll look into aftermarket sways next.

If I get drunk with the credit card in my hand I might even go CVPI rear springs, 2" drop. There's always a market for them used if that doesn't work out. But that's last-ditch.

[clmrt]

Happy almost post 1000, by the way!

[lifespeed]

Just dropped the rear about 3/8", fender lip is about 1/2" above the tire now. It noticeably improved the ride with the softer spring rate. Now back to adjusting the rear shocks to match the springs . . . :rolleyes:

I think it is much more difficult to arrive at the correct combination with air springs than it is with coils. Worth the trouble for that air ride convenience, though.