4.10 Gear Swap Parts, need advice/experience

[HotRaud90]

Ok, so this beginner needs a little advice from some veteran "4.10 gears" thread problem solvers.
In a different thread, I posted about how the Marauder I will be purchasing in 3 weeks has 3.27 gears installed in it. I plan to get 4.10 gears installed and a tune (at the recommendation from practically every MM owner on here) and am currently gettin quotes from a few performance shops in the area that can get it done right. I plan to supply my own parts to save a few bucks.
The previous installation of the 3.27 gears was done less than 2k miles ago. The owner said that when he had them installed he also had the axles (it's a 2003), bearings, etc. replaced - essentially he had the rear end rebuilt at the time of installation.

Here's where I need the advice/experience from some of you guys. What is the full list of parts that I need for the gear swap? Here's what I understand I'll need from readin other threads:

- 4.10 Gear Set (Owner is includin them w/ sale, they're used, is this ok?)
- Install kit (which one, if any?)
- 75w-140 gear oil
- Friction modifier (do I need this if my gear oil has friction mods in it?)
- Red Loctite for the bolts?

Will I need an install kit and/or a rebuild kit since it was rebuilt less than 2k miles ago? Do you need an install kit every time you swap gears? The owner said he had everything done when he had the gears swapped. Am I forgettin anything? Thanks in advance for the help - any help is appreciated!

[tbone]

Ford Racing 4.10's. FOMOCO bearings. Ford Racing carbon clutches and S spring. Royal Purple 75W140, no FM needed. Ford Racing axle girdle or equivalent. New pinion seal and crush washer. A good mechanic.

[RubberCtyRauder]

Are you having a shop install the 4.10 gears? It is not a bolt on job. Need lots of expertise and specialty tools and knowledge to get the gear pattern mesh right. Lube and loctite a shop would supply if that's the type of work they do.

[HotRaud90]

Are you having a shop install the 4.10 gears? It is not a bolt on job. Need lots of expertise and specialty tools and knowledge to get the gear pattern mesh right. Lube and loctite a shop would supply if that's the type of work they do.

"currently gettin quotes from a few performance shops in the area that can get it done right" (sorry, had to) :rolleyes:

Yes, a shop will be performing the swap. I would hope they would supply this, but I've heard stories...

[RubberCtyRauder]

I would just check with the shops that you are getting quotes from what they supply and do they mind if you supply stuff. Some take offense to customer supplied everything..If you want specific brands for gear lube, bearings, install kit..then have them price it with those or just for labor if you purchase and bring. Just as info, some places will not warranty their work with customer supplied parts.

[justbob]

Used gears are known to give mixed results in quietness. Since everything is new, just get a new crush washer, pinion nut, ring gear bolts I consider optional.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[eric jones]

I just did the swap after 8 years of driving this car. I've heard talk about the difference being like "night and day" boy were they right! I went with the cobra diff with 31 spline moser axles and the ford racing girdle. I let the shop by the parts for warranty purposes, just in case. The parts were roughly the same price I was finding on the internet and I didn't incur the shipping costs. I am very happy with it. Mileage difference is minimal. It worked out to be about $560.00 parts and labor. Go with new gears if you do any work at all to the rear. Just my opinion though.

[MOTOWN]

I just did the swap after 8 years of driving this car. I've heard talk about the difference being like "night and day" boy were they right! I went with the cobra diff with 31 spline moser axles and the ford racing girdle. I let the shop by the parts for warranty purposes, just in case. The parts were roughly the same price I was finding on the internet and I didn't incur the shipping costs. I am very happy with it. Mileage difference is minimal. It worked out to be about $560.00 parts and labor. Go with new gears if you do any work at all to the rear. Just my opinion though.

Told ya you would love em! another 4:10 virgin got his cherry "popped":banana:

[Mr. Man]

Find a shop that does a lot of Mustangs as they share the 8.8 diff. Check out the Mustang forums in your area and see who they are going to and trust. You may also be able to get a discount if you are a member of the Mustang club and the gear shop is a vendor of the forum.

[HotRaud90]

I will definitely be inspecting the gears/letting anyone who installs them inspect them before the install to see if they are worthy of puttin in the rear end. If they don't look ok, then I'll spring for the new gears. I feel like if they are in proper condition and I find a reputable mechanic that really knows what's what, I'll be ok.

So I'm lookin at a need for a new crush washer, pinion nut, pinion seal...? Anything else expendable that needs to be replaced every time the rear end is opened up? I'll also be double checkin with the place that I get the work done at.

[tbone]

I had to have mine taken apart and shimmed properly (when I had my clutches replaced) due to excessive play in it.

[babbage]

Change the trans fluid, probably never been changed. Gears will make the trans a lot hotter when you hot rod it. I'd go through the full basic maintenance as well.

Break the gears in with dino oil for 3 heat cycles, 200 miles. Then drain and switch to synthetic. Perhaps a nice rear end girdle (5 lbs on bearing caps) with fill and mag drain plug for your new gears. New axles too since you are in there depending on miles.

Pretty much the kitchen sink - lol..

[crownvic05]

I had 2 rear ends worked on before. Once was in my 2000 crown vic lx hpp. Went from 3.55 to 410s with a trac loc. Parts were used. My personal mechanic for over 10 years and my dads for over 20 only charged me 150 for labor. He did let me help but he did one heck of a job on the install. Secound was on my current 2005 crown vic sport. Went from 327 to 373 with a brand new built trac loc with 4 clutches instead of the normal 3 per side. It was one heck of a job and lots of trouble to install the c clamps but we managed to get them in after about 40 mins per side. Once again it was 150 for labor. Gears were used and trac loc rebuilt. No whine no noise. No special tool either. He is just that good when it comes to fords especially mustangs.

[crownvic05]

By the way, ill be going with 410s hopefully next month.

[HotRaud90]

Change the trans fluid, probably never been changed. Gears will make the trans a lot hotter when you hot rod it. I'd go through the full basic maintenance as well.

Break the gears in with dino oil for 3 heat cycles, 200 miles. Then drain and switch to synthetic. Perhaps a nice rear end girdle (5 lbs on bearing caps) with fill and mag drain plug for your new gears. New axles too since you are in there depending on miles.

Pretty much the kitchen sink - lol..

Well, the axles were replaced less than 2k miles ago so I think I'm good there. I'll consider the trans fluid change. Also heard a lot about breaking gears in. Some do it and swear by it, others don't. I plan to have some type of break in period with mine. Break in with dino oil as you say, then when they're nice and broken in I'll probably put RP 75w-140 synthetic in it.


I had 2 rear ends worked on before. Once was in my 2000 crown vic lx hpp. Went from 3.55 to 410s with a trac loc. Parts were used. My personal mechanic for over 10 years and my dads for over 20 only charged me 150 for labor. He did let me help but he did one heck of a job on the install. Secound was on my current 2005 crown vic sport. Went from 327 to 373 with a brand new built trac loc with 4 clutches instead of the normal 3 per side. It was one heck of a job and lots of trouble to install the c clamps but we managed to get them in after about 40 mins per side. Once again it was 150 for labor. Gears were used and trac loc rebuilt. No whine no noise. No special tool either. He is just that good when it comes to fords especially mustangs.

Encouraging info. I've heard it's hit or miss with used rear end parts. By researching multiple testimonials, it sounds like if you have a solid mechanic that knows what he's doing it'll be fine.

[eric jones]

L:)L So very true!!!!!!!!!!!!
Told ya you would love em! another 4:10 virgin got his cherry "popped":banana:

[eric jones]

Told ya you would love em! another 4:10 virgin got his cherry "popped":banana:
L:)L So very true!!!!!!!!!!!![QUOTE=MOTOWN;1377009]

[MyBlackBeasts]

You can obtain all the parts you need from Tommy, a mm.net vendor. Sparta Performance. Shipped to your door. Awesome customer service.

I ordered everything from him ec=xcept gears (they were a gift). No regrets.

You will LOVE the 4.10s.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79929

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=80809

:burnout:

[mnrauder]

I can't seem to find a place that it's as cheap as you guys are finding. I get quotes locally for $750 without parts just install

[guspech750]

My install cost $300. Price included rear diff fluid.

No break in period for this guy.
Shop.
Payed.
And go. :burnout:

20,000+ miles. Quiet as a dead mouse.


Sent from The White House on taxpayers dimes.

DTR + 4.10's + Eaton swap = Wreeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

[mnrauder]

My install cost $300. Price included rear diff fluid.

No break in period for this guy.
Shop.
Payed.
And go. :burnout:

20,000+ miles. Quiet as a dead mouse.


Sent from The White House on taxpayers dimes.

DTR + 4.10's + Eaton swap = Wreeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom


What shop did you use? I might have to drive down to Chicago to get this done

[guspech750]

What shop did you use? I might have to drive down to Chicago to get this done

Deans Performance in St. Charles Illinois.


Sent from The White House on taxpayers dimes.

DTR + 4.10's + Eaton swap = Wreeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

[HotRaud90]

Well, I've talked to a few people now about the gear swap, including a mechanic who has done many rear end changes during his time in the business, and everyone seems to be thoroughly convinced that I'm not gonna want the 4.10s. The mechanic even said, "It really doesn't seem possible that you could be runnin only 2800 rpm at 75-80 mph with 4.10s...you're gonna be runnin way higher rpms at that speed." In fact, almost everyone I've talked to is sayin somethin to the extent of "You're gonna get crappy gas mileage and you'll regret it".

Wait....what? Almost everyone I talk to on MM.net claims that it really doesn't affect gas mileage as much as you think with a proper tune, at most 2 mpg difference. I've read lots of testimonials of people gettin 23 mpg on highway travel and somewhere around 17 in the city even with 4.10s (if you go light on the pedal). I've tried explainin it to these people, but they're convinced that it's not possible, ESPECIALLY since it's gonna be a DD. Guy even chuckled when I said it was going to be a DD. Frustrating to say the least.

Either the MM owners on here are just way off on their calculations and/or they don't give solid, proven info on the car (I highly doubt this), or these people just don't understand what's what with these cars. I'm leanin more towards believin the people who actually OWN AND DRIVE the cars :rolleyes:...

[Mac-MerC]

Worried about gas mileage get a Honda.
Just swap the damn gears out and be happy... why even entertain the thoughts or opinions from ppl who dont have a Marauder?..... as long as i have been on this site I've only read one post from someone who disliked the 4:10s and went to 3:73s or something.... do the swap and see what the hype is about.
And i drive mine everyday (CAI, Tune, 4:10s)... dont ask gas mileage because i speed a lot (2 time convicted super speeder).
U will enjoy the car a whole lot more... we (mm.net) wouldnt lie to u

[justbob]

Or don't and follow the pro's decision... I understand the concern but keep in mind the weight of the car and the transmission gearing. There is so many old school guys out there that still think 4.10's are way too much and 1,500 stalls are for racing LOL

BTW. I ran 4.30's until my manual chewed em to bits. I only downgraded to the 4.10's to gain extra girth in the pinion since it's got one less tooth. I also average 15,000 a year.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[HotRaud90]

Or don't and follow the pro's decision... I understand the concern but keep in mind the weight of the car and the transmission gearing. There is so many old school guys out there that still think 4.10's are way too much and 1,500 stalls are for racing LOL

In what way are you referring to the weight of the car and the tranny in relation to the 4.10s?

And when you say "the pro", do you mean the old school guy I'm talking to that thinks that 4.10s are way too much and that I'll be runnin 4000 rpms at 80mph? :rolleyes: All my respect to him, he's a very reputable mechanic apparently, but man...it's like they've never heard of anything like it before...

[tbone]

When they were designing the Marauder, they wanted to have 4.10's as standard equipment, but it was rejected for fleet fuel mileage concerns. Nuff said. Now just get the 4.10's. ;)

[RF Overlord]

When they were designing the Marauder, they wanted to have 4.10's as standard equipment, but it was rejected for fleet fuel mileage concerns. Quoted For Truth, and many of us have heard Steve Babcock confirm this on multiple occasions.

Remember, too, the MM has 18" wheels. This makes a difference in gear ratio suitability as well.


Either the MM owners on here are just way off on their calculations and/or they don't give solid, proven info on the car, or these people just don't understand what's what with these cars.Um, I'm leaning toward the latter. I have 4.10s in The Blackbird and there are just too many Marauder owners who have made the switch and verified that 4.10 is a perfectly reasonable choice.

[lji372]

I just did the swap after 8 years of driving this car. I've heard talk about the difference being like "night and day" boy were they right! I went with the cobra diff with 31 spline moser axles and the ford racing girdle. I let the shop by the parts for warranty purposes, just in case. The parts were roughly the same price I was finding on the internet and I didn't incur the shipping costs. I am very happy with it. Mileage difference is minimal. It worked out to be about $560.00 parts and labor. Go with new gears if you do any work at all to the rear. Just my opinion though.


Parts and labor?

Sounds like a deal

[HotRaud90]

Um, I'm leaning toward the latter. I have 4.10s in The Blackbird and there are just too many Marauder owners who have made the switch and verified that 4.10 is a perfectly reasonable choice.

Ha! Exactly. Hence why I said, "I'm leanin more towards believin the people who actually OWN AND DRIVE the cars :rolleyes: ..."


Parts and labor?

Sounds like a deal

I'd also like to know more about this. $560 for the gears, girdle, cobra diff and 31 spline axles, some type of install kit AND the labor?

Holy cow. What's missing here?

[tbone]

I'd also like to know more about this. $560 for the gears, girdle, cobra diff and 31 spline axles, some type of install kit AND the labor?

Holy cow. What's missing here?

Not for all THAT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akoQttWS3oY

[HotRaud90]

Not for all THAT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akoQttWS3oY

Haha! That's what I'm sayin! :eek:

[eric jones]

I paid just over $560.00 for the swap. Wagon Wheel Performance, 4228 Canal rd. Edwardsville,Il 618-973-8247 ask for Brad. No reason for me to lie, just got a good deal. I met him at Fun Ford Weekend in 2012 at Gateway International Raceway. Young kid who knows his s##t! Call him see for yourself.

[HotRaud90]

With the extra stuff besides the gears (girdle, cobra diff, etc.) included? I didn't know if you were includin that in your explanation of the price. If so, that's the stuff crazy is made of! Nice deal!

I've got guys in my area quoting me around $475 - $525 w/ everything included (gears, install parts needed, fluids).

That being said, some have been more ok with installing used gears than others. Some want all new stuff to work with, others don't see it as that big of a deal.

[eric jones]

My bad! that price did not include the 31 spline axles.

[92BlackGT]

those people who think you'll be at 4000 rpm with 4.10's must think the Marauder doesn't have an overdrive transmission
2500rpm is roughly 73mph on the Marauder w/ our 28.5" tall rear tires, 0.70 overdrive and 4.10's
A mustang with its 26" tall tires with be a bit over 2700rpm at 73mph with a 0.70 overdrive and 4.10's

[fastblackmerc]

Well, I've talked to a few people now about the gear swap, including a mechanic who has done many rear end changes during his time in the business, and everyone seems to be thoroughly convinced that I'm not gonna want the 4.10s. The mechanic even said, "It really doesn't seem possible that you could be runnin only 2800 rpm at 75-80 mph with 4.10s...you're gonna be runnin way higher rpms at that speed." In fact, almost everyone I've talked to is sayin somethin to the extent of "You're gonna get crappy gas mileage and you'll regret it".

Wait....what? Almost everyone I talk to on MM.net claims that it really doesn't affect gas mileage as much as you think with a proper tune, at most 2 mpg difference. I've read lots of testimonials of people gettin 23 mpg on highway travel and somewhere around 17 in the city even with 4.10s (if you go light on the pedal). I've tried explainin it to these people, but they're convinced that it's not possible, ESPECIALLY since it's gonna be a DD. Guy even chuckled when I said it was going to be a DD. Frustrating to say the least.

Either the MM owners on here are just way off on their calculations and/or they don't give solid, proven info on the car, or these people just don't understand what's what with these cars. I'm leanin more towards believin the people who actually OWN AND DRIVE the cars :rolleyes:...

I feel like I need back up and reassurance :(

I think the "mechanic" is an idiot and doesn't know ***** about the Marauder.

There are many many Marauder owners that have done the 4.10 swap. What do you think we're all lyin' to you?

You WILL lose 1-2MPG.

You will run about 200RPM higher at 70MPH.

The GRIN on your face will be priceless.


Those are the FACTS!

[Drewstang]

Maybe I'm a little different, but from working on Mustangs for the last 15 years if taking out Ford gears and reinstalling Ford gears there should be very little setup if any needed. I've installed new and used gears and never had any problems with noise. Just reuse the shims from the gears that are in there and install a new crush sleve if there is not one on the 4.10's.

[HotRaud90]

those people who think you'll be at 4000 rpm with 4.10's must think the Marauder doesn't have an overdrive transmission
2500rpm is roughly 73mph on the Marauder w/ our 28.5" tall rear tires, 0.70 overdrive and 4.10's
A mustang with its 26" tall tires with be a bit over 2700rpm at 73mph with a 0.70 overdrive and 4.10's

I'm not exactly sure WHAT they're thinkin, but it doesn't line up with what people who actually drive the cars say. But sometimes you just can't convince people, especially if they've been doin it their whole lives and know everything there is to know :rolleyes:


I think the "mechanic" is an idiot and doesn't know ***** about the Marauder.

There are many many Marauder owners that have done the 4.10 swap. What do you think we're all lyin' to you?

You WILL lose 1-2MPG.

You will run about 200RPM higher at 70MPH.

The GRIN on your face will be priceless.


Those are the FACTS!

I know, I know...hence why I said, "I'm leanin more towards believin the people who actually OWN AND DRIVE the cars :rolleyes: ...". And no, I don't think any of you are lyin to me. I do trust what the actual owners and drivers are sayin. Guess I didn't make it clear enough in that post. I was posting mostly from a sarcastic point of view. I've now gone back and edited it to make it more apparent :D
This mechanic is actually very experienced in rear end work, I just think he's just an old school guy that thinks some young buck wantin 4.10s in the rear is a dingus. After tellin me multiple times that I wouldn't like the change because of the vast downsides it will have on everyday driving, I asked him, "Ok, let's just say I'm a complete idiot that won't listen to your advice and I want 4.10s put in anyways, what will it cost me to get the job done?" Needless to say, he finally gave me the quote after that :rolleyes:


Maybe I'm a little different, but from working on Mustangs for the last 15 years if taking out Ford gears and reinstalling Ford gears there should be very little setup if any needed. I've installed new and used gears and never had any problems with noise. Just reuse the shims from the gears that are in there and install a new crush sleve if there is not one on the 4.10's.

Hm. Good to know. Some of the guys I've talked to will reuse head/tail and carrier bearings, others won't. Some want all new stuff to work with because of liability, some are ok with installing old stuff but they won't guarantee the work because of it. Everyone seems to have their preferences. You seem to know what you're doin. Wanna come down from KY and do my swap? :D

[Hadamustang1]

In what way are you referring to the weight of the car and the tranny in relation to the 4.10s?

And when you say "the pro", do you mean the old school guy I'm talking to that thinks that 4.10s are way too much and that I'll be runnin 4000 rpms at 80mph? :rolleyes: All my respect to him, he's a very reputable mechanic apparently, but man...it's like they've never heard of anything like it before...

probably true .. with his old school.. three speed tranny.. or 4 speed.. but you have a overdrive transmission

[Drewstang]

My brother lives in Palm Coast and if I came down there, probably wouldn't let me come back home lol.