Help With P0133 & P0153

[VMARAUDER]

I went to get the State emissions test on Monday and failed because all my systems were N/A...(that's strange). So I set the car back to stock and changed the gear ratio to 4.10 and turned off the speed limiter the drove for a couple days and the Marauder threw 2 codes (P0133 & P0153).
Oxygen circuit slow response sensors 1 on banks 1 and 2. I cleaned the MAF, is there anything else to do? Also my scanner said they were non-MIL...what does that translate to?

[RF Overlord]

Hey, Vince....good to meet you at Louisville!

IL recently changed the way their emission computer interprets having the I/M monitors shut off in a tune, so that's why you didn't have an issue until this time.

Those codes indicate either bad O2 sensors, frayed or broken wiring, or possibly an exhaust leak. How many miles on your car?

[VMARAUDER]

It was a blast, we are a crazy bunch...lol
116k on the mileage.
The last I checked the wiring was ok
Just had the 3 inch Stainless Works exhaust added a couple weeks ago, I will check the connections as they are all clamp on and as I said put on right before Louisville.

[RF Overlord]

The leak would have to be either upstream of the sensors or if downstream then it would have to be very near the sensors, so check those connections first.

It's also reasonable to assume that the sensors are just old now and since they were turned off in your tune you didn't notice.

[VMARAUDER]

Ok, I will just replace them if after I check the exhaust and nothing changes.

[Comin' in Hot]

Are these codes are thrown off the rear O2 sensors? if so you might be able to get inline eliminators?

[VMARAUDER]

Are these codes are thrown off the rear O2 sensors? if so you might be able to get inline eliminators?
Sensors 1 on banks 1 and 2 so that would be the upstream

[1stMerc]

Do you have a tune. Once you have long tubes put on it has to have the O2 sensor setting adjusted for the longer travel or something of that nature.

At least that's what pro racer software says.

[RF Overlord]

Once you have long tubes put on it has to have the O2 sensor setting adjusted for the longer travel or something of that nature.Good catch, Waymon!

BTW, you're only allowed to miss ONE Louisville. Don't miss the next one. ;)

[VMARAUDER]

Do you have a tune. Once you have long tubes put on it has to have the O2 sensor setting adjusted for the longer travel or something of that nature.

At least that's what pro racer software says.
Tune from Mo's Speed Shop, I had to return the car to stock for Illinois emissions testing and once doe it threw the codes. I sent them an email already

[Zack]

Did I return your car to stock at some point?

[Comin' in Hot]

Sensors 1 on banks 1 and 2 so that would be the upstream

I missed that in the first post, I should learn to read it all.:rolleyes:

[1stMerc]

BTW, you're only allowed to miss ONE Louisville. Don't miss the next one. ;)

Just wasn't meant to be this year, Bob.

[VMARAUDER]

Did I return your car to stock at some point?
Hey Zack...Remember your computer was down the day I came by for you to transfer the stock tune to my device or something like that.
You sent me the tune that you flashed my car with and STC was able to recover my stock tune from my tuner, that is what I downloaded to the car on Monday.
I just cleaned the MAF today an drove 35 miles up and down 394 and so far no DTC's or pending DTC's
I am going to check the exhaust for leaks anyway because I just got it on before Louisville and it's clamped and something may have vibrated loose and I think I got new sensors after you did the headers

[VMARAUDER]

Everything is normal at this point except for the items on tbe attached file.
Catalysis Mon Incomplete
Evaporative says Mon incomplete
and the 3 N/A's
which ones do I need before I retest

[RF Overlord]

You just need the Catalyst and the Evap. The ones labelled n/a are not supported and are of no consequence.

[VMARAUDER]

Looks like I am going to have to jack up and check clamps on the exhaust and/or change sensors. DTC's pending again and when pending its just a matter of time before they pop up

[1stMerc]

You may not have completed the drive cycle yet.

[VMARAUDER]

You may not have completed the drive cycle yet.
Yeah, I know.
How log is the drive cycle? One thing for sure its at least til all your required data is set.
Do pending codes remain in the computer after a drive cycle is completed or do they go away

[justbob]

You need to return to stock AND probably an adjustment for the farther away 02's as previously mentioned. I highly doubt you have two bad sensors, or an exhaust leak on both sides for that matter.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[VMARAUDER]

You need to return to stock AND probably an adjustment for the farther away 02's as previously mentioned. I highly doubt you have two bad sensors, or an exhaust leak on both sides for that matter.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"


So in this case the fault is actually caused by the rear 2 sensors?

[RF Overlord]

No. He's referring to the fact that with your long-tube headers, the front O2s are now farther away from the engine than with the stock manifolds which can create a discrepancy in the sensors' response timing (not to be confused with ignition or valve timing).

[VMARAUDER]

You need to return to stock AND probably an adjustment for the farther away 02's as previously mentioned. I highly doubt you have two bad sensors, or an exhaust leak on both sides for that matter.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"


No. He's referring to the fact that with your long-tube headers, the front O2s are now farther away from the engine than with the stock manifolds which can create a discrepancy in the sensors' response timing (not to be confused with ignition or valve timing).

My misinterpretation of Bob's "farther away sensors" . I see the point you guys are making now. Can I make that adjustment with my handheld? I really don't think so but had to ask anyway.

[justbob]

No Vince, but Marty can handle it cause he secretly wears a cape under his day clothes. At least that's what he whispered softly into my ear in Atlanta. Kinda of creepy, but definitely HAWT.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[martyo]

I am late to this thread and for that I apologize. Once Bob started talking dirty to me, my radar beacons started flashing.

Anywa, Vince, I sent you a PM. This is a solveable problem.

[martyo]

Do you have a tune. Once you have long tubes put on it has to have the O2 sensor setting adjusted for the longer travel or something of that nature.

At least that's what pro racer software says.

The transport delay needs to be tweaked.

[martyo]

Tune from Mo's Speed Shop, I had to return the car to stock for Illinois emissions testing and once doe it threw the codes. I sent them an email already

You sent us an e-mail?

I did not get one... I did just get your PM though and responded to it.

[VMARAUDER]

The transport delay needs to be tweaked.
Ok, let me know the cost and I will get it to you.

[martyo]

Ok, let me know the cost and I will get it to you.

I got this!

Sent you another PM

[chief455]

IL recently changed the way their emission computer interprets having the I/M monitors shut off in a tune, so that's why you didn't have an issue until this time.

So, various state emission inspections will detect alterations in the PCM such as O2 sensor, cat or EGR delete, and the vehicle fails?

[RF Overlord]

In many states, their computer now recognises when an I/M monitor is turned off, as opposed to one that is Incomplete or Not Ready.

[VMARAUDER]

In many states, their computer now recognises when an I/M monitor is turned off, as opposed to one that is Incomplete or Not Ready.
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37 973&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1397075155 (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37 973&d=1397075155)
so if the catalyst monitor and the evap sys mon say incomplete the car still fails?

[justbob]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37 973&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1397075155 (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37 973&d=1397075155)
so if the catalyst monitor and the evap sys mon say incomplete the car still fails?


Correct sir.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[RF Overlord]

so if the catalyst monitor and the evap sys mon say incomplete the car still fails?Depends on the state. In MA, you can have one incomplete monitor as long as it isn't the catalyst.

[chief455]

Depends on the state. In MA, you can have one incomplete monitor as long as it isn't the catalyst.
What if they detect something turned off? guys with headers and EGR delete as example?

[RF Overlord]

Then it fails.

[chief455]

Then it fails.
I don't feel I'm hijacking the thread, since the OP problem started with emissions testing detecting a tuning issue.
This is devastating to the modified tuning world!
Plugging in the OBD2 port and finding no codes isn't enough to pass, they must see all systems tuned 'on' and functioning.
If you eliminate O2 sensors and EGR for headers and turn them off in the tune, you can no longer pass emissions.
Guys will have to reinstall emmisions components and put the tune back to 'stock' in order to pass.
This could be impossible in some cases.

[justbob]

I don't feel I'm hijacking the thread, since the OP problem started with emissions testing detecting a tuning issue.
This is devastating to the modified tuning world!
Plugging in the OBD2 port and finding no codes isn't enough to pass, they must see all systems tuned 'on' and functioning.
If you eliminate O2 sensors and EGR for headers and turn them off in the tune, you can no longer pass emissions.
Guys will have to reinstall emmisions components and put the tune back to 'stock' in order to pass.
This could be impossible in some cases.


Hence why they are testing this way. Their just being thorough like we are at our jobs so I get it. What's funny is you will not take the gear head out of us. Instead you will be seeing a lot more older, much faster, much much more polluting older fun cars getting built at an alarming rate.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[chief455]

Hence why they are testing this way. Their just being thorough like we are at our jobs so I get it. What's funny is you will not take the gear head out of us. Instead you will be seeing a lot more older, much faster, much much more polluting older fun cars getting built at an alarming rate.


Yup, until they force us to get them tested as well.
I'm keeping my OBD1 car now.;)

[RF Overlord]

If you eliminate O2 sensors and EGR for headers and turn them off in the tune, you can no longer pass emissions.
Guys will have to reinstall emmisions components and put the tune back to 'stock' in order to pass.
This could be impossible in some cases.Bingo. I believe Brad (PonyUP) can testify to this.

[VMARAUDER]

Generally how long does if take to complete a drive cycle?
Is it time or mileage?

[fastblackmerc]

Here is a link to the Ford readiness procedure

http://www.obdii.com/drivecycleford.html

My MM failed emission because the battery went dead which, I assume, reset the ECM. I just drove it normally for two or three days and got it reinspected. All the readiness monitors were OK. In N.C. your only allowed one readiness monitor to be "not ready".

[justbob]

Mine took damn near four days of misc errands. I just kept checking my scanner till I was good and ran it right on thru. Decent scanners that also check monitors are cheap and are a must have!


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[VMARAUDER]

Yeah...errands. I hate errands but if that's what it take then errands it will be. I have been waiting for that drive cycle to complete since Sunday. But I have been doing mostly highway driving. I have til end of July so I guess by then it will complete. If not I will be selling...not really

[fastblackmerc]

Mine took damn near four days of misc errands. I just kept checking my scanner till I was good and ran it right on thru. Decent scanners that also check monitors are cheap and are a must have!


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

Just picked up a brand new Autel AL419 off eBay for about $40.00. It is a discontinued model but it still supported by the mfg.

[dmjarosz]

From what I've researched, the P0133 and P0153 are kinda normal for cars with long tube headers. Its got something to do with the distance the exhaust gasses have to travel and the fact that the sensors are now running a bit cooler than they were in their stock locations. A cooler sensor means a slower response. But not slow enough to affect fuel trim. The computer likes to see the sensor respond within a certain amount of time at a much higher frequency than what the fuel system needs to make changes. I've read you can increase the response time requirement in the tune somewhere. You're not changing anything, just telling the computer that a slower sensor is ok. These codes are intermittent with my car as they come and go randomly so Im ignoring it until I do my Eaton swap.

The catalyst efficiency codes (downstream sensors) can easily be eliminated with O2 sensor standoffs (called spark plug anti foulers, sold at Autozone)

With all that being said, I agree that states are getting smarter with their emission inspection techniques. We just have to stay ahead of the game by constantly learning, trying new things, and remaining smarter. I solved an EGR delete problem on my old Taurus SHO by letting the valve suck ambient air from the airbox. I effectively deleted the EGR without having to shut it off in the tune. Winning!

[1stMerc]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/O2transport.jpg