Clockspring question

[Motorhead350]

Ready for the criticism....

Will a clockspring still work if the air bag has been deployed? Or if someone cut the air bag out?

Thanks!

[fastblackmerc]

Ready for the criticism....

Will a clockspring still work if the air bag has been deployed? Or if someone cut the air bag out?

Thanks!

Yes..............

[Motorhead350]

Thank you.

[EMAS]

There are only 2 clock springs, one for a vehicle with no steering wheel controls and one for a vehicle with steering wheel controls. So if it has cruise control then it will work and retain your stereo controls.

However before you go swapping things out once again how about doing a proper diagnosis since the problem could be the horns, the relay, the fuse, the switch (air bag), or the wiring in addition to the clock spring. In fact it is unlikely that the horn wire was the only one to go bad in both your original and the replacement clock springs.

[Motorhead350]

I took it to a dealer and they told me the clock spring.

My air bag light is on. All buttons work except the horn. Cruise control will sometimes work.

So it sounds like the air bag needs to be replaced?

[EMAS]

I took it to a dealer and they told me the clock spring.

My air bag light is on. All buttons work except the horn. Cruise control will sometimes work.

So it sounds like the air bag needs to be replaced?

Well the fact that the airbag light is on means that it could be the clock spring but it is not definite. What air bag code does it give?

[Motorhead350]

Not sure. Should have asked. Tomorrow a local is allowing me to swap his air bag from his 2003 Grand Marquis to see if this v solves the problem. Others say it's my relay... even if it clicks.

New relay going in, air bag swap and not sure what else to try next. Unless a new clockspring is truly what it needs.

[vegasmarauder]

I would NOT use a clockspring from a deployed air bag car. The air bags pull a lot of juice to deploy and in some (but not all) the fine wires inside the clockspring get damaged. It may work when you put it in but it will most likely fail in a bit resulting in the same issue you may now have.

Quick test to isolate the clockspring out of the horn circuit is to locate a multiple connector next to the steering column down by the LCM. There is a dark blue wire in the connector. This is the horn trigger circuit INTO the clockspring. Take a probe a ground this wire. If the horn honks, good chance the clock spring or the actual horn switch on the front of the air bag is bad. The horn switch is under the outter cover of the actual air bag and is not servicable. The air bag must be replaced.

No horn sound when grounding the dark blue wire indicates power/relay issues before the clock spring.

[fastblackmerc]

Not sure. Should have asked. Tomorrow a local is allowing me to swap his air bag from his 2003 Grand Marquis to see if this v solves the problem. Others say it's my relay... even if it clicks.

New relay going in, air bag swap and not sure what else to try next. Unless a new clockspring is truly what it needs.

You do know that you have to disconnect the battery for at least 15 minutes before touching the airbag right? If not the airbag could activate. :eek:

[Motorhead350]

Yes I know about the 15 minute rule. Thank you for looking out for my stupid self.

Another source thinks this is a relay. The relay clicks with the remote and this morning at 3am I noted it clicks when my lady is pushing the air bag.

I am guessing the air bag light and horn issue are separate issues. I will swap a relay and see what happens. I was also told even if it clicks, it could still be bad... we will see.

Not sure on the moody cruise control.

[EMAS]

If the relay clicks when the horn button is pushed just like it does when you do the double lock with the remote then your clock spring and horn button in the air bag are good. Those portions of the circuit have enough conductivity to operate the relay and the problem lies elsewhere.

Note I did not say it was the relay just that that is the easiest place to start that is in the problem portion of the circuit. DO NOT waste your time messing with the airbag and clock spring anymore you have proven that part of the circuit to be working.

[Motorhead350]

If the relay clicks when the horn button is pushed just like it does when you do the double lock with the remote then your clock spring and horn button in the air bag are good. Those portions of the circuit have enough conductivity to operate the relay and the problem lies elsewhere.

Note I did not say it was the relay just that that is the easiest place to start that is in the problem portion of the circuit. DO NOT waste your time messing with the airbag and clock spring anymore you have proven that part of the circuit to be working.

Ok all of this checked out fine. My only guess is a bad ground. The horn button and remote button work. I swapped relays for a quick check... nothing. Swapped the lcm relay. Nada. Yet still clicked.

I hunted for a bad wire, but could not find anything.

Ready to give up.

I HAVE FIXED MISFIRES EASIER THAN THIS.

[fastblackmerc]

Ok all of this checked out fine. My only guess is a bad ground. The horn button and remote button work. I swapped relays for a quick check... nothing. Swapped the lcm relay. Nada. Yet still clicked.

I hunted for a bad wire, but could not find anything.

Ready to give up.

I HAVE FIXED MISFIRES EASIER THAN THIS.

See my post in your other thread.

[RF Overlord]

Forgive a senile old man if this has already been covered, but has anyone checked to see if 12V is actually being delivered to the horn when the button is pushed? Maybe the horn is bad?

[Motorhead350]

Forgive a senile old man if this has already been covered, but has anyone checked to see if 12V is actually being delivered to the horn when the button is pushed? Maybe the horn is bad?

Horn itself is good. I went to a dealer, they hooked it up manually and it's blew. I need to figure out why it's not getting power.

[RF Overlord]

If you can wait until 1700 EST, I will look at the wiring diagram and see where the power goes from the relay to the horn itself.

[Motorhead350]

I can wait... unless is there something I can look up? Let's see.

[EMAS]

It is not a ground, the grounds for the coil in the relay, the horn switch and LCM are working or you wouldn't hear the relay click, the ground for the horn is good or it wouldn't have made noise when the guy provided it power.

The reason this is being so hard to diagnose is that you started by throwing parts at it instead of doing any real diagnosis.

You finally started diagnosing it by swapping the relay with a known good one.

The next step is to get an old fashioned incandescent test light, an LED one will not work.

Connect the ground clip to the battery - terminal and touch the probe to the battery + terminal. Notice how bright the light is. Now connect the test light clip to the horn bolt since it is the ground for the horn. Then touch the light to the battery + terminal and observe how bright it is. Is it just as bright as when the clip was attached to the B- terminal? If so then the horn ground is good.

Then remove the relay and touch the probe of the test light to the terminals in the socket. You should find two that make the light go on. How bright is the light now? It should be as bright as when you touched the probe to the B+ terminal. If it is not as bright or barely glows then the problem is the wire between the horn relay terminal and the fuse. If it glows just as bright then the next step is to test at the horn connector.

Replace the relay and disconnect the horn connector. Touch the probe to the terminal in the connector while a helper hits the horn button or do the double click of the lock button on your remote. Does the light come on as bright as at the relay terminal and B+ terminal, barely glow or not glow at all. If it is substantially dimmer or doesn't glow at all then the problem is the wire between the relay and the horn including the terminals in the socket and connector.

I guess you can disregard this reply since you found the problem and I was not keeping up with all of the 17 threads you started about the same issue. In the future start one thread, give all of the info in that thread and keep adding to it. It will make your life easier and you will get to a resolution quicker as anyone responding will have all of the info and not miss something that was asked and answered in one of the other 17 threads on the same problem.

[Motorhead350]

No problem.

Thank you for everything.

[massacre]

I guess you can disregard this reply since you found the problem and I was not keeping up with all of the 17 threads you started about the same issue. In the future start one thread, give all of the info in that thread and keep adding to it. It will make your life easier and you will get to a resolution quicker as anyone responding will have all of the info and not miss something that was asked and answered in one of the other 17 threads on the same problem.

You'd think after 11 years of being on this site this would have sunk in by now. :flamer: