Sick of these cars riding like tanks

[Zack]

Anyone else fed up with the ride?
I'm referring to the rear.
It's horrible!!
I've never liked the ride from day 1, and after 12 years I've almost had enough.
Does the ride improve by converting to coil springs? I'd be willing to convert if it meant going over railroad tracks didn't feel like the world was gonna end.

[MOTOWN]

Anyone else fed up with the ride?
I'm referring to the rear.
It's horrible!!
I've never liked the ride from day 1, and after 12 years I've almost had enough.
Does the ride improve by converting to coil springs? I'd be willing to convert if it meant going over railroad tracks didn't feel like the world was gonna end.

What exactly is the problem? too harsh, too loose:confused:

[L.Mark]

I don't really see that big a problem with the rear...

[MOTOWN]

My experience with the Marauder has been if the ride height is too low, the car rides extremely harsh, and unstable, too high it rides like a cattle truck unless you have adult passengers in the back, im still on oem shocks, thinking of trying at set of QA1s.

[Joe Walsh]

You can drive my DD Ranger for a few days.....

The Marauder will suddenly feel like it's riding on a cloud!

(Do you have the stock suspension..... or lowered + aftermarket/hard bushing control arms??)

[Zack]

Not lowered, new shocks, non-leaking bags
Rides horrible when you hit a decent bump or worse.

Go ride in a town car of the same year....like floating in a cloud.
And almost the same EVERYTHING

[RubberCtyRauder]

Send a pm to member lifespeed. He has tried all kinds of suspension setups, shocks etc..and I beleive he chose Grand Marquis rear air springs for his rather than the stiffer Marauder air spring, altough he is in Cali where roads tend be nice year round, he'll have some good info still.

[whitey]

Get town car air bags. I think the bags are different in how they react to bumps. I dont think coil springs would help.

[whitey]

Send a pm to member lifespeed. He has tried all kinds of suspension setups, shocks etc..and I beleive he chose Grand Marquis rear air springs for his rather than the stiffer Marauder air spring, altough he is in Cali where roads tend be nice year round, he'll have some good info still.

I was just about to edit my post to say to contact lifespeed. The man is anal about suspension, i mean that in a good way.

[Zack]

Will do. I like anal.
Wait, no. Yes?
Where's joe

[RubberCtyRauder]

I know lifespeed told me to stay away from the Arnott limo air springs, that they were even stiffer.

[captain]

Really DD a ranger and suddenly the MM feels glorious.
Drive Caddy and MM seems like a ranger.
My all time favorite ride...1989 Colony park! Smooth powerful and big as hello.
Whats ***??

[Comin' in Hot]

It's the shocks, I have KYBs now and I'm thinking I'm going back to the double adjustable Naakes in the rear. I had it fine tuned to be super smooth.

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

I've always felt a HUGE difference between my MM and GM rear ride. The MM is super stiff, it even makes something creak in the trunk going over bumps, not sure but I think its the decklid. The GM even with worn suspension is like a cloud.

[Limited360]

Just drove mine today... Going to stiffen up the QA1's a bit more, I was not happy in the corners today, too floaty!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk so I may sound retarded.

[Vortech347]

Since the sidewalls on these cars are huge I've noticed for me tire selection makes a big difference. I'm actually getting ready to order new struts/shocks because mine is getting "floaty' and it bugs me.

The OEM BFG's actually have a really stiff sidewall. The Nitto 420's were good. The Motivo 850's I have now are OK, the falkens I tried were so dangerous feeling it was like driving with 10psi in slicks. I flipped a U'y and made the shop swap em.

Its hard going from a Fox with a full Maximum motorsport coil over suspension that rides like an M3 to the floaty MM sometimes.

[chief455]

Since the sidewalls on these cars are huge I've noticed for me tire selection makes a big difference.
I bought my car with 27" tall rear/26" tall front tires = around 1" shorter than stock. It handled awesome. I did not like the look.
I put 28" tall rear/27" tall front = closer to stock, and the rear end was like a baby carriage.
Zack control arms and Addco rear sway helped get most handling back - but the shorter/less sidewall height tires alone did make the car better.

I went through this on another car = GM A-body 1971 GTO

typically, these don't handle.
some guy spent a ton of time and money sorting it out for sleeper cornering ability. About 6 alignment spec sheets in the console. HUGE sway bars front/rear, KYB shocks, special lowering springs, 70-81 T/A front spindles and steering box.
IT CORNERED LIKE A CORVETTE!
IT HAD ALL FOUR WHEELS/TIRES THE SAME SIZE. THE WHEELS WERE ZERO OFFSET = CENTERED RIM OVER THE HUB.

I cleaned up the look by putting larger rear tires and stock style wheels on, and the handling was CRAP!!
Sort of like a Marauder = taller rear tires than fronts just for looks.
Mount 4 equal size tires on zero offset wheels and get it aligned by a good chassis shop = winning!

[MOTOWN]

I think there are a number of things in the rear suspension that contribute to the overall harsh ride, the air bags seem to be a bit too firm, the oem shocks left a lot to be desired, my passenger side rear started to leak after 7K!

The tiny 8" wide wheels were severely too narrow to begin with, when i widened to 10" wide it was a night and day difference, i had the Nitto 295s.

Couple the rear suspension with Metco control arms, and Watts link, Addco sway bars, and it becomes way more stable, but a little more harsh as you "feel" every crack in the road, now that im on 20s the ride is extremely stable, and not as harsh as with the 18" wheels, but it still needs a better shock, so im going to try a set of QA1s single adjustable,the double adjustable is overkill for the street, and a pain to dail in, not going to replace my bags since they are still functional, hoping just the shock upgrade will make me happy with the rear.

[vegasmarauder]

Ok, I think there are two different ideas conflicting here. If you want good road following over rough roads with good handling you need softer springs and more roll stiffness. If you want less lean in corners and good transitional response (turning from left to right) you need stiffer springs and roll stiffness. For the best road following on rough surfaces you need softer springs and less roll stiffness. Town Cars are made for comfort, so softer springs and less roll stiffness, hence a beautiful smooth ride. Stock CV/MGM next step up in springs, but no roll stiffness. They ride great, but don't handle good. The CVPI/MGM LSE has stiffer springs and more roll stifffness so better cornering and transitional response on SMOOTH surfaces. The MM was designed to corner at high speeds and not lose control and to have better transitional response in turns. The limiting factor is the weight of the car. The stiffer springs and roll stiffness mean the tires will skim across the rough surface and not follow it.

Now the 89 Colony Park is a great riding car because it has progressive rate springs in the rear (a relative has a mint condition one with air shocks in the back). So, minor bumps and road irregularities are soaked up by the soft portion of the spring. As it gets more loaded the rate increases so it will have less lean in the corners.

The MM was not designed for rough roads, it's too heavy and the springs are too stiff. That's why you see pre-runner off road vehicles with long progressive rate springs. They stay glued over the small bumps and increase resistance over the jumps.

[Krytin]

Ok, I think there are two different ideas conflicting here. If you want good road following over rough roads with good handling you need softer springs and more roll stiffness. If you want less lean in corners and good transitional response (turning from left to right) you need stiffer springs and roll stiffness. For the best road following on rough surfaces you need softer springs and less roll stiffness. Town Cars are made for comfort, so softer springs and less roll stiffness, hence a beautiful smooth ride. Stock CV/MGM next step up in springs, but no roll stiffness. They ride great, but don't handle good. The CVPI/MGM LSE has stiffer springs and more roll stifffness so better cornering and transitional response on SMOOTH surfaces. The MM was designed to corner at high speeds and not lose control and to have better transitional response in turns. The limiting factor is the weight of the car. The stiffer springs and roll stiffness mean the tires will skim across the rough surface and not follow it.

Now the 89 Colony Park is a great riding car because it has progressive rate springs in the rear (a relative has a mint condition one with air shocks in the back). So, minor bumps and road irregularities are soaked up by the soft portion of the spring. As it gets more loaded the rate increases so it will have less lean in the corners.

The MM was not designed for rough roads, it's too heavy and the springs are too stiff. That's why you see pre-runner off road vehicles with long progressive rate springs. They stay glued over the small bumps and increase resistance over the jumps.


DING DING DING! Winner^^^^

[TooManyFords]

Anyone else fed up with the ride?
I'm referring to the rear.
It's horrible!!
I've never liked the ride from day 1, and after 12 years I've almost had enough.
Does the ride improve by converting to coil springs? I'd be willing to convert if it meant going over railroad tracks didn't feel like the world was gonna end.

You'll have to go back a LOOOOONG way in the history here, but I was first to complain about the ride and posted the fix to this.

I had to ware a flak jacket but I stand by what I did. And the fix was CHEAP!

[TooManyFords]

here is the link:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showpost.php?p=58654&postcount=21

[Zack]

Thanks John!!!

[massacre]

FWIW I have progressive rate springs in my Merc and it made a huge difference. KYB shocks too.

[cer0413]

Anyone else fed up with the ride?
I'm referring to the rear.
It's horrible!!
I've never liked the ride from day 1, and after 12 years I've almost had enough.
Does the ride improve by converting to coil springs? I'd be willing to convert if it meant going over railroad tracks didn't feel like the world was gonna end.
Ride will not improve if you convert to coil springs. Mines feels and sound like when a southwest airline plane lands.

[tbone]

Never noticed any issues. I love the way my car rides.

[justbob]

Just now seeing this Zack and agree 100%. I also concur with this, pick up what your laying down, smell what your cookin good lookin.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[Bluerauder]

Never noticed any issues. I love the way my car rides.

+ 1. I agree ^^^^^^. It is all a tradeoff on performance and handling on the twisties vs. cushion and comfort. Finding the right balance of both to suit your particular tastes and desires is difficult. Personally, I have never had a problem with the ride in the Marauder. I like the stiffness and the feel of the road and don't find it to be particularly jarring even on long road trips. I much prefer the ride in the Marauder to the squishiness and body roll typical of the Grand Marquis or the Lincoln Town car.

Maybe a selector switch like on some high end cars so you can trim the suspension to "sport mode" when you want to play or turn it off when you want the cushion and cloud feel.

[finster101]

Are you sure that you are not hitting the bump stops? I had that issue when I first lowered my car. I thought is was just the way it is, then went ahead and replaced the stops with after market ricer stops that are very short and problem solved. I know it sounds stupid but sometimes the solution is so simple it gets overlooked.

[L.Mark]

Not lowered, new shocks, non-leaking bags
Rides horrible when you hit a decent bump or worse.

Go ride in a town car of the same year....like floating in a cloud.
And almost the same EVERYTHING


Man!!! You can't compare it to the Town Cars...even a GMW or CV doesn't have the ride they have...and the 97 era TC's have an even better ride!!! For what it is it's not bad...JMO...

[Green96]

I have thought about putting a set of air bags from a MGM on in place of the stiff MM ones. In general I wish Ford would have used softer springs and stiffer sway bars on the cars to achieve the handling that they were after......Lately I find myself thinking about selling mine :(

[lji372]

Maybe y'all should be driving a town car :dunno:

[clmrt]

Supercharged town car.

[lji372]

Supercharged town car.

that is his plan,,,,,,,,,,,,

[pem]

this is truly a great discussion...lot of different and diverse opinions on handling and ride of our Marauders and everyone posting their impressions and solutions...with all due respect to all of you, take this for what it's worth...my wife tells me that our 04 Marauder rides better and/or smoother than her 04 Grand Marquis...her Grand Marquis has a firm ride and feels like an old cowboy buckboard...would never consider selling either one because of the ride

[clmrt]

I just got back from a 600-mile road trip with 2 kids, a wife and a trunk full of softball gear and luggage. With a full tank of gas my MM rode great- I wouldn't change a thing. Unloaded and near empty it feels like riding on a stiff board.

[lifespeed]

Not to state the obvious here, but if your ride sucks your shocks are bad. That could mean worn-out bad, or just not valved correctly for the car bad. Either way it will make you hate the car, and it shouldn't be that way.

Now for some bad news: there are no good off-the-shelf shocks available for our cars. I don't know why, but that's the way it is. Shocks have to match the overall setup of the car. Spring rate, sway bars, etc. And the Marauder is different in this regard, even more so with thicker sway bars and stiff rear control arms.

If you can't adjust the damping (independently, compression AND rebound) you're stuck with whatever KYB or Monroe slapped together to pacify the taxi cab and grandparent fleet of panthers. You should not be surprised that this doesn't work. That is why custom-valved Tokico's were commissioned by the designers. But those are long gone . . .

See the thick red lines on the compression and rebound sweeps of the shock dyno to understand what damper settings are proven to work, at least with the setup in my signature. Duplicate this in a Penske shock and you'll be happy. My Marauder handles the best of any car I have ever owned, and I've had a few. The ride is nice as well.

Now if I twist the adjustment screws off by one or two turns they don't ride good at all. I have induced oversteer by dialing in too much rebound damping in the rear. The correct shock damping setup window especially in the rear is very narrow with the air springs.

So I say don't give up, fellow Marauder-ers. These cars can handle great and have the ride that you expect. But I can't offer a cheap solution, only one that doesn't require you to go through as much shock valving experimentation is I did.

http://home.comcast.net/~claybu/pics/marauder/rear_shocks_r1_comp.png

http://home.comcast.net/~claybu/pics/marauder/rear_shocks_r3.png

[lifespeed]

this is truly a great discussion...lot of different and diverse opinions on handling and ride of our Marauders and everyone posting their impressions and solutions...with all due respect to all of you, take this for what it's worth...my wife tells me that our 04 Marauder rides better and/or smoother than her 04 Grand Marquis...her Grand Marquis has a firm ride and feels like an old cowboy buckboard...would never consider selling either one because of the ride

The GM shocks are blown, or at least more worn out than the Marauder. Shocks do not last that long, certainly not 10 years.

[Zack]

I just changed the shocks a few months ago.
I'll modify the bump stops like I did on my black car years ago.
But, I never messed with ride height on my beater (car I'm not happy with)
I'm gonna do what TooMAnyFords recommended

[cat in the hat]

Never noticed any issues. I love the way my car rides.


+ 1. I agree ^^^^^^. It is all a tradeoff on performance and handling on the twisties vs. cushion and comfort. Finding the right balance of both to suit your particular tastes and desires is difficult.

+2.

IMO, the Marauder is just right - not a big schooner like a TC, not breaking my teeth like a CVPI, and it handles well enough for 99% of what I'm likely to want to do.

[lifespeed]

I just got back from a 600-mile road trip with 2 kids, a wife and a trunk full of softball gear and luggage. With a full tank of gas my MM rode great- I wouldn't change a thing. Unloaded and near empty it feels like riding on a stiff board.

That's how you know the shocks aren't correct. The factory Tokico's were firm but not harsh. Unfortunately many of us did not own our cars when the OEM shocks were still in good enough condition to appreciate how well they worked. I bought my car in 2007 with 30K miles so at least got to feel what they should drive like for a couple years.

I wish I could just point to brand X decent, inexpensive shock that works well on these cars, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Zack]

I think one of my new shocks broke today. That would explain something I suppose.

Will check this weekend

[clmrt]

Do anything in particular to make that happen? Dukes of Hazzard ****nit?

I wonder if the same dimension body is available with a more compliant valve. I think I'll waste some time at work today to figure that out - see if any specs are published on my Monroe HDs and compare to others.

I wonder if going with Lincoln Town Car spec would lend a more grandfatherly ride quality.

[Zack]

Something broke in the back but not a shock. I suspect the stabilizer link.
Will look this weekend.

[Logizyme]

I've always felt the Marauder ride was well balanced, But I guess it depends greatly on what your looking for from your ride.

If you desire a comfortable ride, try out some Town Car seats. The Marauder seats do have a nice soft layer, but they truly are firm. Sit down in the seat of a Town Car or Navigator and you sink into its plush layers as if you were reclined in your lazy boy at home. Shocks are always important, certainly not the only factor, but an important one when it comes to comfort. The factory shocks, I believe, are good units. Maybe not the best shocks but effective. Ford/Motorcraft has since changed the shocks that are available, at least the rears, as they are no longer inverted. KYB's have long been known to be some of the best replacement shocks for 03+ panthers over on CVN. If comfort is your thing, try a set of the Civilian KYB's. A good set of shocks will handle and dampen bumps without bouncing around like your on a water bed. The air springs used on all panthers are considered very soft spring rates, comfort wise, it does not get much better than OE air springs. The last thing to look at if your goal is comfort is the stabilizer bars (anti-sway bars). From a comfort standpoint, a sway bar is a direct link from the wheel to the body, and has the ability to transfer allot of bumps, particularly one sided bumps to the body and thus driver. Swapping to smaller sway bars, or more drastically, removing the rear sway bar can do allot to improve comfort. Marauder front sway bars range from 28-29.5mm and the rear is a 21mm. Smaller sway bars can be sourced from CV/GM's, and the rear sway bar can simple be removed.(The front could too, just not a great idea) Softer front springs could also make you feel more comfortable over rough roads.

If you desire a sportier ride with more control, generally the direction will be oposite. If your building more power or throwing more torque at the wheels upgrading the rear control arms is almost a neccesity. I once drove a Marauder with 4.56's and no other mods, when I got on it I could feel the rear end and suspension just twisting with torque. Henious, Metco and Sparta all offer outstanding rear control arms that will keep the rear suspension stabilized through daily driving and crazy launches. Both Metco and Sparta also off matching watts-link arms to compliment the control arms and stabilize cornering. Stiffer sway bars are a must do for those that must feel in control or love carving corners, Addco makes larger diameter front and rear sway bars which give you the control to hit corners until all four tires scream. If the front suspension is feeling sloppy, or if the rear suspension is after control arms, shocks are a great way to improve the overall feel of the ride. Once agian KYB is the brand of choice, but if your shooting for handling get the Marauder/Police spec KYB's. The front spring rate is pretty ideal to start with, and the rear air springs will not put much damper on your fun if you have got the arms, bars and shocks but good coil sping can result is a slightly more predictable ride.

The front suspension of the 03+ panther is incredibly well designed. Starting right down at the subframe, the Marauder was well engineered, I believe they got the Idea from the LS/T-bird/S-type(DEW98) design that started a few years earlier, an aluminum front subframe. The DEW98 and Panther platforms are the only large production US ford products to have aluminum front subframes. Double wishbone SA/LA suspension with coil-over-shocks. Aluminum front LCA's, cast steel UCA's, aluminum steering knuckles made by Alcoa and rack and pinon steering. Sure its no 3/4 link suspension, but I get a sense of taking a traditional design and making it the best it possibly could be. When I think about it like this it truly leaves me in awe. The rear suspension is even more traditional, a solid rear axle, but that does not mean Ford did not make it the best it could be, because considering the live axle they did. Quad trailing arms and a watts-link, outboard inverted shocks, I don't see many solid axles with suspensions as advanced as that. Simply compare the suspension of a panther to a mustang. Stamped steel subframe, stamped steel LCA's, cast steel knuckles, McPhearson struts, triple trailing arms, panhard bar and upright inboard shocks. The only thing I think a mustang suspension has over a Panther is aluminum front calipers. My point is that for what these cars are, they are designed, engineered and built to handle well, much more care went into how these cars handled than Ford did most other cars, and it shows.