Big oil filter versus little oil filter.

[handmouth]

Changed the oil the other day in my new Marauder. Didn't notice the difference in the oil filter sizes until I tried to install the new one. The K&N filter was substantially larger then the valvoline vo-105 filter I took out through the top. I I went and bought a motorcraft filter and found it larger as well. I had to crawl up under the car and disconnect some wires to wrestle the filter in to place. Did some research and found out that the smaller filter was developed by the quick lube places for easy fast changes.
My main concern is using a smaller filter harmful to the car? It's a lot easier to swap out then the big filter.
What filters are used by most on this site?

[whitey]

It all depends on the filter media inside. Fram is junk, i run motorcraft or purolater(sp). Please Dont take your car to a quick change...ever. :eek::p

[handmouth]

I always do my own oil changes. That's how I discovered the smaller filter. Makes me wonder about the previous owner. Bought the car used from a dealer who of course had no service records.

Fram, filters are really that bad?

[whitey]

Cool, glad to hear. Yeah, fram isnt worthless, but they leave a lot to be desired. I always used fram until i found out about them through a few guys here. Just do a Google search on fram filters vs other oil filters. For around the same price, youll get more filter media and better components from other brands. Motorcraft was actually better then most, and purolator was also good. K&N and all the fancy scmancy filters had slightly more media, like around an inch more inside and to me, that doesn't justify the extra price paid. Friends dont let friends buy fram. (That means youre now my friend :P)

[cat in the hat]

I like Motorcraft and NAPA Gold / Wix.
If I was doing extended oil change intervals, and I could overcome my Framophobia, I'd look at Fram Ultra ;)

[a_d_a_m]

I have only had one experience with the quick-change small filters. It was this weekend, and I was changing the oil on a friend's 2004 Marquis and he had gone to one of those joints. Forgot to check the old filter to make sure the gasket came off. It didn't.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a541/aknox077/IMG_20140802_175525_zpsv8qpvom q.jpg


Motorcraft or nothin'.

[EMAS]

This will tell you all you need to know about the Motorcraft vs Fram oil filter debate.

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38 722&d=1243356588

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38 723&d=1243356588

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38 724&d=1243356588

Granted these are for the older Fords (Motorcraft FL-1A Fram PH8A) but I seriously doubt that Fram spends any more money on the one that fits our engines.

[RF Overlord]

Did some research and found out that the smaller filter was developed by the quick lube places for easy fast changes.That's only half the reason: one-size-fits-many means less money tied up in inventory.
My main concern is using a smaller filter harmful to the car? Harmful? Probably not, but certainly not ideal. The best value-for-money is the Motorcraft FL820S, although WIX and NAPA Gold (identical but for the paint on the can) are good as well.

K&N filters used to be made in the US by Champion Laboratories, now part of FRAM Filtration, but they are currently made in Korea and have significantly reduced specs, but are still the same price. Not a good value, IMHO.

[gdmjoe]

http://www.gdmjoe.com/engine/MotorcraftOilFilterChangeFL820 S-80.jpg

[Marauderjack]

Interesting!!:cool:

[71cyclone]

Interesting!!:cool:
Dern ,it was easier to pull the filter from the top this time, Size does make a slight difference..

[gdmjoe]

Oil Filter Cut-Away Comparison (http://www.gdmjoe.com/engine/Oil_Filter_Cut-Away_Comparison_Kit.pdf) ««« -click-

Motorcraft versus ... Pennzoil
FRAM
BOSCH
Champ
AC-DELCO
Valvoline
STP
Mighty
ProLine
Fleetguard
Mobil 1
K&N
WIX
Pro-Tec
NAPA Gold
CarQuest
MotorTrend

[RF Overlord]

From the link posted by gdmjoe above:

Pressure Relief Valves
o Feature an up-front (threaded-end) pressure relief
valve design which prevents unfiltered oil from
reaching the engine

This is wrong. The entire purpose of the BPV (bypass valve) is to ALLOW unfiltered oil to pass in case of a restriction in the filter (clogged media, high RPM with cold oil, etc). If unfiltered oil were prevented from reaching the engine it would seize.

The reason for Ford's decision to locate the BPV at the threaded end is to prevent the unfiltered oil from washing across the dirty side of the media during a bypass event and picking up more crud on its way. Having the BPV at the dome-end allows that to happen.

FYI, bypass events occur way more often than one might think, so this is actually important.

[gdmjoe]

RF Overlord - From the link posted by gdmjoe above:

Pressure Relief Valves
o Feature an up-front (threaded-end) pressure relief
valve design which prevents unfiltered oil from
reaching the engine

This is wrong. The entire purpose of the BPV (bypass valve) is to ALLOW unfiltered oil to pass in case of a restriction in the filter (clogged media, high RPM with cold oil, etc). If unfiltered oil were prevented from reaching the engine it would seize.

The reason for Ford's decision to locate the BPV at the threaded end is to prevent the unfiltered oil from washing across the dirty side of the media during a bypass event and picking up more crud on its way. Having the BPV at the dome-end allows that to happen.

FYI, bypass events occur way more often than one might think, so this is actually important.
Take a look at the pic's on the next page ...
.

[RF Overlord]

Yes, the pictures are correct, I was just trying to clarify for anyone who read that statement that it is very misleading by itself.

[71cyclone]

Real nice Display...

[handmouth]

Cool, glad to hear. Yeah, fram isnt worthless, but they leave a lot to be desired. I always used fram until i found out about them through a few guys here. Just do a Google search on fram filters vs other oil filters. For around the same price, youll get more filter media and better components from other brands. Motorcraft was actually better then most, and purolator was also good. K&N and all the fancy scmancy filters had slightly more media, like around an inch more inside and to me, that doesn't justify the extra price paid. Friends dont let friends buy fram. (That means youre now my friend :P)

Cool, I'll take all the oil filter friends I can find.
Thanks, for the info.

[handmouth]

Wow, great info and thanks to all that shared.

I don't think I will be buying any more K&N filters.

I put a K&N on the car. After reading the responses makes me want to put the motorcraft on.
I did use Royal purple full synthetic oil 5w-20.

[whitey]

Royal purple....oh no.......jk thats good stuff! Next time youll know not to waste your money on a k&n, and just use good ol' motorcraft.
Btw, summer months run 5w30, winter use 5w20....but its still fine to run what you have.:beer:

[handmouth]

What can I say they suckered me in with the great advertising.

[motorking]

Hello,
I am the tech director at FRAM. Your correct when you say that many shops and quick lubes use a consolidated design to save on part numbers. That said, the FRAM bashing on here is almost funny. Compare the MC specs published to the least expensive FRAM
MC= 80% efficiency @20 microns
FRAM EG= 95.7 % efficiency @20 microns 11 grams capacity
FRAM TG = 99% efficiency@20 microns 15 grams capacity
FRAM Ultra= 995+ efficiency@20 microns 32 grams capacity
Clearly, the Least expensive FRAM is better at keeping dirt out of your engine.
ps- 100% of Ford vehicles built in 2014 roll out of the factory with a filter built by FRAM filtration. Purolator only makes the aftermarket MC's.

If you take the time to learn about filtration from engineers (google filter manufacturers council) instead of internet tribal knowledge you would know which one is best. The XG2 filter is by far the least expensive, full synthetic media filter for the big Merc. Pleated stainless steel screen, two layers of full synthetic media, steel end caps, silicone anti drainback valve, 15k capacity and 8-9 bucks. Nothing else even comes close.

[Marauderjack]

Well.....alrighty then!!:beer:

Whatcha "naysayers" have to say about this??:eek:

BTW......I am also a "naysayer" and have been ever since I cut a Fram filter open many years ago!!:argue:

Perhaps they have evolved...perhaps!!??:D

[motorking]

Well.....alrighty then!!:beer:

Whatcha "naysayers" have to say about this??:eek:

BTW......I am also a "naysayer" and have been ever since I cut a Fram filter open many years ago!!:argue:

Perhaps they have evolved...perhaps!!??:D

MJ,
There really isnt much to say. we have been making our lower end filters with fiber end caps since 1962, over 300 million per year. Today, AC Delco, honda, Subaru, Bentley, Porsche, Mercedes, Nissan are all using fiber or felt or even no end caps at all. Go figure! How clean it gets the oil is all that matters and if you take the time to research the FRAM Ultra on websites like FRAM.com or www.bobistheoilguy.com, you will find it is simply the best in the business bar none.

[Marauderjack]

I truly appreciate your input motorking!!:beer:

I for one will certainly do more research and keep my "yapper" shut in the mean time!! ;)

[71cyclone]

Hello,
I am the tech director at FRAM. Your correct when you say that many shops and quick lubes use a consolidated design to save on part numbers. That said, the FRAM bashing on here is almost funny. Compare the MC specs published to the least expensive FRAM
MC= 80% efficiency @20 microns
FRAM EG= 95.7 % efficiency @20 microns 11 grams capacity
FRAM TG = 99% efficiency@20 microns 15 grams capacity
FRAM Ultra= 995+ efficiency@20 microns 32 grams capacity
Clearly, the Least expensive FRAM is better at keeping dirt out of your engine.
ps- 100% of Ford vehicles built in 2014 roll out of the factory with a filter built by FRAM filtration. Purolator only makes the aftermarket MC's.

If you take the time to learn about filtration from engineers (google filter manufacturers council) instead of internet tribal knowledge you would know which one is best. The XG2 filter is by far the least expensive, full synthetic media filter for the big Merc. Pleated stainless steel screen, two layers of full synthetic media, steel end caps, silicone anti drainback valve, 15k capacity and 8-9 bucks. Nothing else even comes close. Doesn't Fram- Autolite [Autolite used to be Ford ] make motorcraft plugs etc ??

[motorking]

I truly appreciate your input motorking!!:beer:

I for one will certainly do more research and keep my "yapper" shut in the mean time!! ;)

Thank you sir! We really appreciate that. I have owned a shop for a very long time and before I worked for Fram, I always used "name brand" filters including Fram. There are many good filters out there and doing diligent maintenance using oil meeting or exceeding oe specs with a good filter will make you engine last very long.

[Marauderjack]

Thank you sir! We really appreciate that. I have owned a shop for a very long time and before I worked for Fram, I always used "name brand" filters including Fram. There are many good filters out there and doing diligent maintenance using oil meeting or exceeding oe specs with a good filter will make you engine last very long.

254,000+ miles on my original Marauder engine using only Mobil I and Motorcraft filters every 5,000 miles!!:beer::beer:

BTW.....the last 170,000 of those miles were SUPERCHARGED!!;)

[jwibbity]

What about AMsoil's extended interval filter thats what i use and I change my oil every 10K even though they say its rated up to 15K/25K for severe service and regular service.

[fastblackmerc]

I'll continue to use Mobile One and Motorcraft filters.

[RF Overlord]

MC= 80% efficiency @20 micronsHi, Jay...you may know me from BITOG. Welcome to mm.net

We really appreciate your input as you are the only filter manufacturer representative who ever bothers responding on any site, but I do want to make one clarification to your statement above.

Motorcraft's published spec is 80% at 20u, but the comparison performed by AMSOIL in February of 2011 determined that the figure is actually 93.7%.

[J-MAN]

Thanks for chiming in Motor King.

[motorking]

Doesn't Fram- Autolite [Autolite used to be Ford ] make motorcraft plugs etc ??

Autolite makes about half the mc plugs
NGK also makes some

[fastblackmerc]

Autolite makes about half the mc plugs
NGK also makes some

IMHO it doesn't really matter who makes what. It matters that the manufacturer meets the specifications given for the product.