Valve Noise at Start-up. Worry or Not?

[tomhilmes]

I think I've read almost every post on this subject. My '04 has had the rattle at cold start up for about 40,000 miles. It has 135,000 on it now. Heavy valvetrain rattle like no oil. Also noted that as soon as the oil pressure gage moves, it stops. It is worse than it use to be.

I am second owner since 9,900 miles. I've always used the 820 filter and the correct motorcraft oil. Everything is stock.

I took it to the dealer about 2,000 miles ago with my entire laundry list of which the rattle was only one of the issues. Left it over night and told them what to listen for on the rattle. They said that since it was only a few seconds it was nothing to worry about. Man it doesn't sound good at all and it didn't use to do this.

So, I don't care. I want to fix it. Am I paranoid?

[Zack]

Normal. Your timing chain tensioners may be going bad but the oil pressure gauge is a dummy. It goes to 65 and stops on all Marauders.

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Sounds like our car's equivalent of sticking lifters, or worn guides/tensioners as the culpit.

Although probably unrelated, my car started doing it after an oil change about a month ago. It really bothered me, I thought it was a bad oil filter so I went to crank it without starting it (pedal to the floor while key on) to try and get the oil moving, well my car said F that and actually proceeded to turn on when I didn't expect it. It rev'd up pretty high when starting but didn't rattle. The car hasn't done it since and I even had some spirited beating on it since then and sounds better than ever.

Good luck.

[fastblackmerc]

I think I've read almost every post on this subject. My '04 has had the rattle at cold start up for about 40,000 miles. It has 135,000 on it now. Heavy valvetrain rattle like no oil. Also noted that as soon as the oil pressure gage moves, it stops. It is worse than it use to be.

I am second owner since 9,900 miles. I've always used the 820 filter and the correct motorcraft oil. Everything is stock.

I took it to the dealer about 2,000 miles ago with my entire laundry list of which the rattle was only one of the issues. Left it over night and told them what to listen for on the rattle. They said that since it was only a few seconds it was nothing to worry about. Man it doesn't sound good at all and it didn't use to do this.

So, I don't care. I want to fix it. Am I paranoid?

The timing chain tensioners might be wearing....

[marauderthis]

Has anyone installed a prelube system to pressurize the system
before start up?
I know Mallory makes one

[ctrlraven]

Stock Plastic tensioners aren't holding pressure and taking the slack out of the chains until oil pressure builds up.

Best to replace with metal tensioners (Cloyes) which have a safety ratchet that will keep tension on the chains when there is no oil pressure at start-up until it builds up.

If you need part numbers, just ask.

[Vortech347]

Stock Plastic tensioners aren't holding pressure and taking the slack out of the chains until oil pressure builds up.

Best to replace with metal tensioners (Cloyes) which have a safety ratchet that will keep tension on the chains when there is no oil pressure at start-up until it builds up.

If you need part numbers, just ask.



^Yes. Your tensioners are probably shot. Get them swapped ASAP. If they fail or the timing chain jumps you'll be having a VERY bad day.

I just swapped mine out. They were shot.

[maineiac]

Mines been makin that noise since 95,000,ive changed tesioners still there ,147,000,now ive stopped chasin it,i'm gonna run it while i start to build a new one.

[tbone]

Not to brag, but I guess I'm going to anyway. I changed my guides and tensioners when I did my Eaton swap. My engine is so quiet and runs so perfect at 147k it is almost uncanny. It's never had any noise before the swap, maybe a very slight tick, that's about it. Just lucky I guess.

[1Marauder]

Stock Plastic tensioners aren't holding pressure and taking the slack out of the chains until oil pressure builds up.

Best to replace with metal tensioners (Cloyes) which have a safety ratchet that will keep tension on the chains when there is no oil pressure at start-up until it builds up.

If you need part numbers, just ask.



Yes numbers please...

[ctrlraven]

Order the Metal chain tensioners from RockAuto.com. The Cloyes units are listed under 2004 Ford Mustang 4.6 SOHC, not DOHC! RA 5% discount code is D7E58008217A46
CLOYES Part # 95338 (left)
CLOYES Part # 95339 (right)

The rest of the stuff I ordered from AdvanceAutoParts.com and got free shipping. AAP $10 Off $25+, $20 Off $50+, $30 Off $75+, $40 Off $100+ Or $50 Off $125+ With discount code is WD37
S.A. GearChain Arm - Left Part No 7393
S.A. GearChain Arm - Right Part No 7394
S.A. GearChain Guide - Left Part No 7635
S.A. GearChain Guide - Right Part No 7636
Felpro Timing Cover Gasket Set Part No TCS 45980

[tomhilmes]

Thanks everyone for the input. At this point, even if I open it and everything looks ok, I'm still going to change out the components. I really appreciate the parts/vendor listing and the discount codes. I'm not driving the car daily right now - really thinking about selling it. This seems like a good winter project since I can only usually dedicate an hour or so at a time. I'll keep everybody updated.

Tom Hilmes, Springfield, Missouri

[Vortech347]

Thanks everyone for the input. At this point, even if I open it and everything looks ok, I'm still going to change out the components. I really appreciate the parts/vendor listing and the discount codes. I'm not driving the car daily right now - really thinking about selling it. This seems like a good winter project since I can only usually dedicate an hour or so at a time. I'll keep everybody updated.

Tom Hilmes, Springfield, Missouri

When I first tore mine apart I was pissed because my guides looked perfect. But when I got to removing the tensioners they had about as much tension in them as an ink pen spring. They were shot to hell. Now the car idles insanely quiet, starts better, and even feels like it picked up tq sub 2000rpm.

[tbone]

Only one of my guides was worn through the plastic for about an inch and a half. The tensioner only had about 3/16" worth of movement left before it was maxed out. The rest were completely normal.

[ctrlraven]

ZERO! nylon plastic left on my passenger guide, chain was also grooving into the metal.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/ctrlraven/marauder/20140329_123142_zpscyawegh6.jp g

Before
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/ctrlraven/marauder/20140329_123053_zps8barexto.jp g

After
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/ctrlraven/marauder/20140329_154729_zpsitatkb3b.jp g

[71cyclone]

Real nice Job , Great pictorials [ Hum, my car has 140,000 miles and was built a month before yours ] mine is still quiet with clean oil,and around oil change time I hear brief chatter for a split second . Thanks for the info and part numbers .

[1Marauder]

great photos and documentation. After you are finished let us know how it works "super quite" etc...

Aldo how hard was this?

[Mike M]

Try going with a 0W-20 or 0W-30 oil. Flows much faster on start up.

[1Marauder]

Smart idea... And after it warms up completely a few WOT runs always helps! :)

[ctrlraven]

Try going with a 0W-20 or 0W-30 oil. Flows much faster on start up.
Flowing faster on start-up is not the issue, its the stock tensioners not holding the proper tension pressure on the timing chains when the car is turn off. Tension releases and creates slack in the chain which upon start-up will smack on the guides and arms creating the infamous start-up chatter until the oil psi has built up enough to the tensioners and press up against the guides and tighten the chain up.

[chief455]

Has anyone installed a prelube system to pressurize the system
before start up?
I know Mallory makes one
I bought a car that had this - I believe he said it was oil primer from a turbo charger, he adapted to the engine and turned on with the key in 'run' position. Worked excellent. I watched my gauge go to 45psi in seconds, then cranked the engine.
I will install this mod in a long term car, maybe my Marauder ;)

[Mike M]

Flowing faster on start-up is not the issue, its the stock tensioners not holding the proper tension pressure on the timing chains when the car is turn off. Tension releases and creates slack in the chain which upon start-up will smack on the guides and arms creating the infamous start-up chatter until the oil psi has built up enough to the tensioners and press up against the guides and tighten the chain up.

Yep, I understand the problem exactly. Having the oil flow a bit faster in turn could pressurize the bled down tensioners faster.

[chief455]

Reasearch:
http://www.streetortrack.com/Accusump-Preoilers-Accessories-c-453.html
Purchase:
http://www.streetortrack.com/1qt.-Accusump-24-046-pr-17295.html

Seems like a possible soultion and prevention device....

[Marauderjack]

Has anyone ever found that the noise leads to broken parts or some kind of failure??:(

Lincoln Mark VIII's all seemed to do it and some are still running fine.....mine has done it off and on since it was new but for some reason now I never hear it anymore except when I change the oil and filter??:confused:

BTW, I have used Mobil I 0W30 for the last 5 or 6 years!!:beer:

[walela1]

My '04 is having issues while driving, after it has been on freeway for a few miles, begins running rough. Is this likely due to a worn timing belt tensioner?

Only have less than 80K original miles on it, there is some valve rattle on start-up.

[Vortech347]

Changing oil viscosity won't help anything. Unless you are running asphalt tar in your oil?

Your car is an 04' it has plastic tensioners and they are probably either blown out or shot. They also do not feature a ratchet that prevents them from compressing when there isn't oil pressure. This leads to alot of start up racket once the springs in them get soft. Regardless of mileage the spring tension is always there. So age kills them. Not use. If you have an 04' regardless of mileage I would swap them ASAP.

[Mike M]

Changing oil viscosity won't help anything. Unless you are running asphalt tar in your oil?

Your car is an 04' it has plastic tensioners and they are probably either blown out or shot. They also do not feature a ratchet that prevents them from compressing when there isn't oil pressure. This leads to alot of start up racket once the springs in them get soft. Regardless of mileage the spring tension is always there. So age kills them. Not use. If you have an 04' regardless of mileage I would swap them ASAP.


Again, I WASN'T saying to use thicker oil as in "asphalt tar". I was saying to use 0W-20 or 30 since it flows faster on start ups and would pressurize the bad tensioners sooner. Not a fix...just possibly a help until parts get replaced.

[Vortech347]

Again, I WASN'T saying to use thicker oil as in "asphalt tar". I was saying to use 0W-20 or 30 since it flows faster on start ups and would pressurize the bad tensioners sooner. Not a fix...just possibly a help until parts get replaced.

There isn't a difference in flow when it comes to start up pressure with that minor of a difference in viscosity. The tensioners are screwed up.

[tylerdurden2816]

Order the Metal chain tensioners from RockAuto.com. The Cloyes units are listed under 2004 Ford Mustang 4.6 SOHC, not DOHC! RA 5% discount code is D7E58008217A46
CLOYES Part # 95338 (left)
CLOYES Part # 95339 (right)

The rest of the stuff I ordered from AdvanceAutoParts.com and got free shipping. AAP $10 Off $25+, $20 Off $50+, $30 Off $75+, $40 Off $100+ Or $50 Off $125+ With discount code is WD37
S.A. GearChain Arm - Left Part No 7393
S.A. GearChain Arm - Right Part No 7394
S.A. GearChain Guide - Left Part No 7635
S.A. GearChain Guide - Right Part No 7636
Felpro Timing Cover Gasket Set Part No TCS 45980

Remember, off hand, about what all this set ya back? I'm due to replace my tensioners as well and I'm wondering what the parts are gonna cost me.

[marauderthis]

Did you put one into the MM yet????









Reasearch:
http://www.streetortrack.com/Accusump-Preoilers-Accessories-c-453.html
Purchase:
http://www.streetortrack.com/1qt.-Accusump-24-046-pr-17295.html

Seems like a possible soultion and prevention device....

[fastblackmerc]

Wasn't there someone on the board that had a pre-oiler burst or leak?

[massacre]

Lincoln Mark VIII's all seemed to do it and some are still running fine.....

The Marks have B heads, the secondary tensioner was the culprit. The later models had the updated secondary tensioners and the problem went away.

[Marauderjack]

I think the one we had was a 1994.....rattled like HELL every start-up but ran great and lasted through 120K miles!!:beer:

[NavySeabee]

Anyone have a sound clip of this rattle? I haven't noticed any unusual noise but it'd be nice to identify quickly if I hear it. TIA.

[ctrlraven]

Remember, off hand, about what all this set ya back? I'm due to replace my tensioners as well and I'm wondering what the parts are gonna cost me.
I want to say the parts were between $300-400, I really can't remember. Also needed a few gallons of coolant as well.

If the valve covers fully come off I would go ahead and replace those gaskets and other related ones. The person who did my repair only wedged them up enough to get the timing cover off.

[Jeronimojc]

Order the Metal chain tensioners from RockAuto.com. The Cloyes units are listed under 2004 Ford Mustang 4.6 SOHC, not DOHC! RA 5% discount code is D7E58008217A46

CLOYES Part # 95338 (left)

CLOYES Part # 95339 (right)



The rest of the stuff I ordered from AdvanceAutoParts.com and got free shipping. AAP $10 Off $25+, $20 Off $50+, $30 Off $75+, $40 Off $100+ Or $50 Off $125+ With discount code is WD37

S.A. GearChain Arm - Left Part No 7393

S.A. GearChain Arm - Right Part No 7394

S.A. GearChain Guide - Left Part No 7635

S.A. GearChain Guide - Right Part No 7636

Felpro Timing Cover Gasket Set Part No TCS 45980


Good info. Thanks for posting. I'll be doing the same shortly as I'll be doing a short block swap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tylerdurden2816]

I want to say the parts were between $300-400, I really can't remember. Also needed a few gallons of coolant as well.

If the valve covers fully come off I would go ahead and replace those gaskets and other related ones. The person who did my repair only wedged them up enough to get the timing cover off.

Wedged them up? Is that a legit way to do it?

[Marauderjack]

Wedged them up? Is that a legit way to do it?

Not since the guides actually wear through causing the slack chains!! :(

Fix it right or listen to the rattle!!:shake:

[ctrlraven]

Wedged them up? Is that a legit way to do it?
Seneca loosened the VC bolts and put a few shims under the very front of valve covers just enough to get the timing cover off. It's not a legit way to do it but I didn't buy new valve cover gaskets and related stuff and has been working fine, plus he did not want to remove my COT as it would of probably leaked afterwards with 200k+ miles on it and no fresh o-rings.

Not since the guides actually wear through causing the slack chains!! :(

Fix it right or listen to the rattle!!:shake:
What? Tyler is referring valve cover removal. Why remove the VCs if they don't have to be.

[Marauderjack]

What? Tyler is referring valve cover removal. Why remove the VCs if they don't have to be.

LOL.....I thought he was talkin' about the damn chain guides.....ya never know what to expect around here anymore!!:rolleyes:

[tylerdurden2816]

Not since the guides actually wear through causing the slack chains!! :(

Fix it right or listen to the rattle!!:shake:

For the cost to get this fixed, I wish it was as simple as just leaving it and listening to the rattle:( I think by now everyone's heard my stories of woe, but I'll say this, this has been the most high-maintenance daily driver I've ever had, and it's also the newest model year I've ever owned!

[Marauderjack]

In defense of the car....if bought new and kept up with most do very well but 3rd and 4th buyers of HIGH MILEAGE cars inherit the results of hard driving and poor maintenance!!:cool:

Sorry you are unhappy but I'm very happy with mine....BEST car I have even owned and I've had a bunch of 'em!!:beer: