Return Fuel System Noob Question

[Jeronimojc]

Could I keep the stock fuel rails with a return fuel system? If not, could someone explain why not?

HP goal is high 500s, which has been proven attainable with a returnless system, but I want a return system for various other reasons.

Below is something I drew up. This shows a -8 feed line to a regulator. The -8 feed line is extended from the regulator to the stock rails. A -6 return line goes from the regulator back to the tank.

40393


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[massacre]

That won't work IMHO
Fuel needs to return from the rail, not the regulator

[Jeronimojc]

That won't work IMHO
Fuel needs to return from the rail, not the regulator


Thank you and sorry to keep on asking noob questions, but Aeromotive shows the diagram below for SINGLE fuel rail systems. It shows the return line from the regulator. So I figured if this works for single fuel rails it should also work for our fuel rails.

From a pressure point of view, anything on the engine side of the regulator should be at the regulated pressure. Correct?

40394


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MOTOWN]

A return style fuel system is very simple your feed line from the tank goes to the rails with a Y fitting to the rear of the rails , a 180* u fitting on the front of each rail goes to the regulator , the return line to the tank comes off of the bottom (typically) of the regulator and returns to the tank , its that simple! nothing less , nothing more!

[Jeronimojc]

A return style fuel system is very simple your feed line from the tank goes to the rails with a Y fitting to the rear of the rails , a 180* u fitting on the front of each rail goes to the regulator , the return line to the tank comes off of the bottom (typically) of the regulator and returns to the tank , its that simple! nothing less , nothing more!


Motown, I appreciate your advice. Please don't take offense to this; I get what you are saying, but I am the type of person that likes to understand how things work.

My question is is there a major flaw in setting up a return system the way I sketched it up and if so, where is the flaw?

I know it isn't ideal considering the small stock fuel rails; I know it isn't customary; I know no racer would be doing something like this... I am simply inquiring about the logic.

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[justbob]

What you are asking is referred to a "dead head" return style system. It has pro's and con's and is used mostly for controlling heated fuel from being sent back to the pumps.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[Jeronimojc]

What you are asking is referred to a "dead head" return style system. It has pro's and con's and is used mostly for controlling heated fuel from being sent back to the pumps.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"


Great info. I came across this when I searched for "dead head" return. It illustrates the two ideas (typical return and dead head return) simply. Thanks.

40404


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nh muscle]

Dead head involves a corpse! Lmao

[Zack]

This is the only way to use stock rails in a return setup:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn306/Marauder-Z/Marauder%20Repairs/100_3574.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn306/Marauder-Z/Marauder%20Repairs/100_3575.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn306/Marauder-Z/Marauder%20Repairs/100_3576.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn306/Marauder-Z/Marauder%20Repairs/100_3577.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn306/Marauder-Z/Marauder%20Repairs/100_3578.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn306/Marauder-Z/Marauder%20Repairs/100_3579.jpg

[Jeronimojc]

This is the only way to use stock rails in a return setup:

Believe me, I studied those pictures (Da'law's setup) in detail before I even posted here. You made some modifications to the stock fuel rail, which I like. However, if there are no serious concerns with a "dead head" return system, then I would not need fuel rail modifications.

Can you see a major flaw with using a "dead head" return style setup?

[Ourobos]

I'd be interested in hearing some of the pro's opinions on the dead head option as well.

[mad1stgen]

Here's another option that worked for me on several setups up to 500rwhp with stock supply and return sized lines (5/16). I'd imagine that with an upgraded fuel pressure regulator and a -8 feed line it might work for your goals as well.

KB makes that adapter piece for certain year GTs, but it works great on the 99-04 Cobra rails. Provided there is enough room on the marauder, it's something to consider. Yes, it adapts a standard Ford style regulator to returnless style rail.

[Zack]

You can deadhead if you want. Lethal performance sells their kit for GT500's in a deadhead config.

I would rather my regulator make fuel pressure adjustments after the fuel injectors are consuming fuel, not before it.

Be the Guniea pig!

[Zack]

Here's another option that worked for me on several setups up to 500rwhp with stock supply and return sized lines (5/16). I'd imagine that with an upgraded fuel pressure regulator and a -8 feed line it might work for your goals as well.

KB makes that adapter piece for certain year GTs, but it works great on the 99-04 Cobra rails. Provided there is enough room on the marauder, it's something to consider. Yes, it adapts a standard Ford style regulator to returnless style rail.

That's pretty slick!

[massacre]

I simply modified a B-head OEM return-style fuel rail to fit the C head intake by cutting off the B head tabs and welding them in the proper locations. Then I had them chromed.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/692/img0047xh.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/854/img0057zmt.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/199/img0056o.JPG
I do want to try an aftermarket FPR so I might have some neat fuel rails for sale!

Used Aeromotive adaptors to go from the stock fuel rail to AN fittings:
http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/plumbing-fittings/oem-adapters/ford-12-male-spring-lock-to-an-08-feed-line-adapter/

[massacre]

Here's another option that worked for me on several setups up to 500rwhp with stock supply and return sized lines (5/16). I'd imagine that with an upgraded fuel pressure regulator and a -8 feed line it might work for your goals as well.

KB makes that adapter piece for certain year GTs, but it works great on the 99-04 Cobra rails. Provided there is enough room on the marauder, it's something to consider. Yes, it adapts a standard Ford style regulator to returnless style rail.

I have pics of your setup from years and years ago, I never knew who made that piece. Thanks for sharing that KB makes it!

[Jeronimojc]

Here's another option that worked for me on several setups up to 500rwhp with stock supply and return sized lines (5/16). I'd imagine that with an upgraded fuel pressure regulator and a -8 feed line it might work for your goals as well.



KB makes that adapter piece for certain year GTs, but it works great on the 99-04 Cobra rails. Provided there is enough room on the marauder, it's something to consider. Yes, it adapts a standard Ford style regulator to returnless style rail.


Certainly a good suggestion. I called KB. They said their adaptor is for stock size fuel regulators only.

I may give the "dead head" return system a try. I can always change it down the road. Thanks everyone for their input.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[massacre]

^^^ Definitely let us know how this works out for you, it might save me some plumbing some day! lol

[chief455]

I would rather my regulator make fuel pressure adjustments after the fuel injectors are consuming fuel, not before it.


that is a key to high volume fuel demands. regulate after the engine is fed.
feed the engine, set and monitor pressure after injectors, when set pressure is reached, the regulator opens the return line to relieve/maintain.

[Jeronimojc]

For whatever is worth. I spoke with Aeromotive (see post #3). They indicated in the setup they illustrate ("dead head") the pressure in the feed line upstream of the regulator is the 'same' as the pressure downstream of the regulator. The key is rather sufficient pump flow. I would say 'same' is relative considering a dynamic system. They also indicated 600 hp should be no problem with that setup and stock rails. We'll see. Stay tuned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[massacre]

that is a key to high volume fuel demands. regulate after the engine is fed.
feed the engine, set and monitor pressure after injectors, when set pressure is reached, the regulator opens the return line to relieve/maintain.

This is how I prefer to run my regulators ^^^
But everyone is different, no shame in that :burnout:

[justbob]

There has been STUPID H.P. made with deadhead systems. Like I said before, the ones I've read up on were done for heated fuel reasons, something I am all too familiar with... By placing the regulator in a place that gets decent air flow and not returning fuel through hot ass rails, and across a hot engine, it's that much less heated the fuel gets and how much more run time you have on a hot day before your fuel pump overheats and fails.

This is probably what I will be plumbing up on mine even though I have custom made rails originally off Triple Threats car.

I haven't chosen a pump(s) yet. I was hooked on running a external for the cool plumbing look out back but the more I think about it, simplistic is best in the long haul.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[mad1stgen]

Certainly a good suggestion. I called KB. They said their adaptor is for stock size fuel regulators only. ...

You can always run one of these with that adapter.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-13102?seid=srese1&gclid=CNuSiJLolcICFQQSMwodbxMA FQ

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/aei-13102_w_ml.jpg

[Jeronimojc]

I simply modified a B-head OEM return-style fuel rail to fit the C head intake by cutting off the B head tabs and welding them in the proper locations. Then I had them chromed.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/692/img0047xh.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/854/img0057zmt.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/199/img0056o.JPG
I do want to try an aftermarket FPR so I might have some neat fuel rails for sale!




Very nice!! Maybe you can keep your good looking rails if you do as mad1steng pointed out below. The KB adaptor is $65. The inlets and outlets are -6 AN though.

EDIT: Actually, you wouldn't even need the adaptor. Correct?


You can always run one of these with that adapter.

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/aei-13102_w_ml.jpg

[massacre]

Correct, even better news I wouldn't need the adapter!

[mad1stgen]

Yet another option if you guys want to run a stand alone regulator with a -8 line between the rail and the regulator ... http://www.foreinnovations.com/product_p/22-904.htm

[massacre]

Fore makes great stuff, I know a dude who used to design stuff for them.

[Jeronimojc]

Yet another option if you guys want to run a stand alone regulator with a -8 line between the rail and the regulator ... http://www.foreinnovations.com/product_p/22-904.htm


Nice find. It looks like it mounts to a stock fuel rail. There are probably many different possible configurations. These two come to mind, but someone else should confirm. I like the one on the right (less rail mods). Will need to cap fuel rail stock feed tube. What do I know.




40419


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MOTOWN]

Motown, I appreciate your advice. Please don't take offense to this; I get what you are saying, but I am the type of person that likes to understand how things work.

My question is is there a major flaw in setting up a return system the way I sketched it up and if so, where is the flaw?

I know it isn't ideal considering the small stock fuel rails; I know it isn't customary; I know no racer would be doing something like this... I am simply inquiring about the logic.

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A little late to the party with my response check out this link scroll down to figure 1-2 is exactly how my fuel system is plumbed and the best way to do it.
http://aeromotiveinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/13101-09-14.pdf