Rear axle, bearings, seals....

[BlkMamba24]

Hey guys got some problems out back with the right rear axle. I'm leaking gear fluid from behind that hub back there. I'm guessing a seal or bearing failed, so I must pull the entire axle out to replace the seal or bearing. Any tools I should know about to make this job easier? Should I do both sides even though only the right is leaking? Thanks in advanced guys.

[fastblackmerc]

Hey guys got some problems out back with the right rear axle. I'm leaking gear fluid from behind that hub back there. I'm guessing a seal or bearing failed, so I must pull the entire axle out to replace the seal or bearing. Any tools I should know about to make this job easier? Should I do both sides even though only the right is leaking? Thanks in advanced guys.

Maybe you'll need a seal puller and a bearing puller.

[RubberCtyRauder]

You might need to replace the axle as well, 03 year had a chance to get soft axles due to a poor heat treat and the bearing wears a groove in it..it will just leak again if not replaced.

[BlkMamba24]

Maybe you'll need a seal puller and a press to get the bearing off.

So the bearing comes out with the axle and I have to press it off the axle once out? I was in the rear once before to do the gears but can't remember anything.

[fastblackmerc]

So the bearing comes out with the axle and I have to press it off the axle once out? I was in the rear once before to do the gears but can't remember anything.

Changed my original post.. you'll need a bearing puller.

[burt ragio]

Change both axles & bearings while apart. If you plan on more hp in future may be a good time for 31 spline.

[BlkMamba24]

I definitely planned on more hp, and hopefully as soon as next summer I planned on going with a MMR stroker with Cobra heads and cam ,and blower sometime later after that. So the stock axles are 28 spline? Rock auto good to find the 31 spline and rebuild kit? The gears should be fine, haven't heard any weird noises besides from the axle. So far I'm looking at 2 axles and seals and bearings for both sides, a seal puller and a bearing puller.....sound about right?

[RubberCtyRauder]

if you go 31 spline you will need a 31 spline differential too

[BlkMamba24]

if you go 31 spline you will need a 31 spline differential too

Which means i gotta go back in there and fool around with those gears again if i decided to go that route?

[fastblackmerc]

Which means i gotta go back in there and fool around with those gears again if i decided to go that route?

You can do it with new spider gears, cross pin and bolt.

[larryo340]

You can do it with new spider gears, cross pin and bolt.

You mean side gears ;)

[RF Overlord]

So the bearing comes out with the axle and I have to press it off the axle once out? No, the bearing is pressed into the end of the axle tube, right behind the seal.

[lifespeed]

Pretty much you have to do everything. Rebuild the whole axle. You can't get a 28 spline diff, so may as well get a new 31 spline unit. You see, your diff, bearings and most definitely the clutches are worn too.

How many miles? 100K, 150K? You (or somebody) had their fun, now it is maintenance time on a not-very-robust axle shaft and bearing design.

[vegasmarauder]

If your on a budget plan on replacing both the axles, seals and bearings. If the seal is leaking 99% of the time it's because the bearing is failing and getting hot and damaging the seal. If the bearing is going, the axle will be scored. Some people have been able to just change the seals and bearing and not the axles, but that's just putting off another bearing failure in 10-40K miles.

While you have the cover off, another $100 gets you a carbon fiber clutch pack rebuild kit. Over 80K miles and the factory clutches are probably slipping a little. A very good indicator of this is wet fluid at the vent tube. The fluid is getting so hot it's cooking the fluid and venting the excess out the vent. Every CV/MGM with LSD I've seen with the wet vent had burned or failing clutches. You will actaully feel the difference off the line with new clutches. Don't have to remive the center section to change the clutches. There's a good write up somewhere on doing it in the car.

Unless you are really going to put a lot of HP in the engine, 28 spline is fine.

[lifespeed]

Unless you are really going to put a lot of HP in the engine, 28 spline is fine.

28 spline diffs are no longer in production. $100 for clutches (plus labor) does not compare well to a whole new diff for $350. Spider gears, cross shaft and even the diff case where the spiders ride all wear. It is not just clutches.

If you leave worn parts in there it will just have to be done over again soon. Best thing to do is do it right, and just once for the next 100K+ miles.

[J-MAN]

Might as well replace the parking brake shoes as long as your in there.

[BlkMamba24]

Yea its crazy I'm just now getting to this job, spider gears have wiggled their way out of mesh and will not allow the cross bolt in the diff unit to pass thru. This is the only thing preventing me from finishing this job. Spider and side gears are still in just not quite in the right spot.

[BlkMamba24]

Any suggestions on how to get this rod back thru this diff? Spider gears were way off at first and literally about to walk their selves out but i managed to walk em back the other way and almost all the way in but it seems as if they only need to go about 1/24th of an inch in that same direction in order for the rod to slide up between them...they just dont wanna move anymore at all.

[justbob]

Did the top and bottom spider washers slip? That will hang you up every time.


Builder Of Badassery

[BlkMamba24]

Not sure, cant really tell if its the spiders themselves or washers underneath them....would it be wise to just pop everything out and re-fit it? Or keep trying to wrestle with getting that rod thru how it is, mmaybe try and wrestle with the gears some more until it goes in

[justbob]

Re installing the spiders is cake. Just rotate them in. If your off a tooth like I usually am, just repeat. Not worth fighting if it takes more than two minutes as the spiders only take a minute to re situate.


Builder Of Badassery

[BlkMamba24]

Thanks, i got em in. I was probably lined up right the whole time just wasnt putting enough force to it. I tapped the rod 2 or 3 times with a hammer and it went right in. Got the diff cover on filled with fluid, abs sensors back in and now find that I'm missing one caliper slide bolt for the passenger side. Just went completely missing searched the entire garage, its like somebody or something doesn't want me to finish this car....i already haven't drove it in 3months whats one more day goin hurt i guess. I'll be at the Ford dealer first thing.. or autozone in the morning if they have it.

[MOTOWN]

Napa sells the slide bolts / mounting bolts for the fronts , not sure about the rear , but definitely worth calling to confirm , and will be cheaper than the dealer.

[BlkMamba24]

Yea I'm calling around town 8am....off topic but super curious to know with 761rwhp what your running in the quarter??

[MOTOWN]

Yea I'm calling around town 8am....off topic but super curious to know with 761rwhp what your running in the quarter??

I haven't made a pass yet , but i can tell you it will easily run 10s

[HotRaud90]

Well, thought I'd resurrect an old thread since there are so many already on topic on here, no need to start another.

I've been tryin for a couple months now to get my gears done. Somethin always pops up and keeps me from gettin it done though. Well, I finally got an appt. set with a performance shop in the area. Yesterday, I heard some clicking from the rear end. Sounded like rear driver wheel. Happened whenever I turned right. I had also noticed a faint low rumble from the rear that started a couple weeks ago. Figured it was a bearing starting to go and that it would just be replaced when I had the gears done. Oh, and OF COURSE the shop cancels on me the last minute. WTH.

Long story short, I got up under the car and noticed fluid leaking around the rear driver side wheel assembly. Also some slight fluid build up on the wheel. Great. Of course I bought the install kit for the gears that DOESN'T include the axle bearings and seals :mad2: I didn't think it would be necessary seeing as the previous owner told me he had the whole rear end (axles, bearings, gears, seals) replaced about 18-20k ago on the car. This seems kind of soon to have to do it all over again.

I'm kinda nervous now. Worried that I might have to do axles and everything. Is there a chance I might not have to? I guess I won't know until the car gets opened up at the shop for the gears. I'll just have it all checked at once to avoid having to open up things twice. If the bearing and/or seal is shot and I'm leaking some fluid and hearing a little bit of rumbling and that click when I turn, is it a good chance that my axle will have been damaged around where the bearing sits?

A time to be excited about gettin gears done is slowly turnin into a nightmare, it seems...

[fastblackmerc]

Well, thought I'd resurrect an old thread since there are so many already on topic on here, no need to start another.

I've been tryin for a couple months now to get my gears done. Somethin always pops up and keeps me from gettin it done though. Well, I finally got an appt. set with a performance shop in the area. Yesterday, I heard some clicking from the rear end. Sounded like rear driver wheel. Happened whenever I turned right. I had also noticed a faint low rumble from the rear that started a couple weeks ago. Figured it was a bearing starting to go and that it would just be replaced when I had the gears done. Oh, and OF COURSE the shop cancels on me the last minute. WTH.

Long story short, I got up under the car and noticed fluid leaking around the rear driver side wheel assembly. Also some slight fluid build up on the wheel. Great. Of course I bought the install kit for the gears that DOESN'T include the axle bearings and seals :mad2: I didn't think it would be necessary seeing as the previous owner told me he had the whole rear end (axles, bearings, gears, seals) replaced about 18-20k ago on the car. This seems kind of soon to have to do it all over again.

I'm kinda nervous now. Worried that I might have to do axles and everything. Is there a chance I might not have to? I guess I won't know until the car gets opened up at the shop for the gears. I'll just have it all checked at once to avoid having to open up things twice. If the bearing and/or seal is shot and I'm leaking some fluid and hearing a little bit of rumbling and that click when I turn, is it a good chance that my axle will have been damaged around where the bearing sits?

A time to be excited about gettin gears done is slowly turnin into a nightmare, it seems...

Were the axles that were replaced new? If not you may have the soft axle issue if the PO got recycle yard parts or the entire rear end. You'll may need new axles, bearing and seals anyway.

The clicking noise could also be the emergency brake shoes which have have been known to come apart.

[HotRaud90]

Were the axles that were replaced new? If not you may have the soft axle issue if the PO got recycle yard parts or the entire rear end. You'll may need new axles, bearing and seals anyway.

The clicking noise could also be the emergency brake shoes which have have been known to come apart.

I would assume the way he explained it that they were new. I guess there's no way to tell, but he definitely made it sound like everything new was swapped in when he had gears done.

About the brake shoes, that makes sense. Think I read somewhere that the leaking fluid can damage the e-brake assembly? I've been using the e-brake just about every day for the past 6-7 months.

I figured when the PO had everything replaced that the soft axle issue would've been resolved. Idk, maybe not.

[lifespeed]

The C-clip axles are just a marginal design. Combine that with a heavy car, less-than-optimum hardening (or junk aftermarket axles) and you're replacing axles and bearings far too often.

I think I am going to have Dutchman axles (http://www.dutchmanaxles.com/) cut off the axle ends and weld on housing ends that accept a proper tapered roller bearing with preload like that used in the Dana 44 axle. They have done this before to Crown Vic police cars, can install an ABS tone ring on the axle, and retain the original brake backing place and ABS sensor. What is not to like about that? Fix the problem once and for all . . .

[fastblackmerc]

The C-clip axles are just a marginal design. Combine that with a heavy car, less-than-optimum hardening (or junk aftermarket axles) and you're replacing axles and bearings far too often.

I think I am going to have Dutchman axles (http://www.dutchmanaxles.com/) cut off the axle ends and weld on housing ends that accept a proper tapered roller bearing with preload like that used in the Dana 44 axle. They have done this before to Crown Vic police cars, can install an ABS tone ring on the axle, and retain the original brake backing place and ABS sensor. What is not to like about that? Fix the problem once and for all . . .

How much $$$$'s are you spending?

[HotRaud90]

How much $$$$'s are you spending?

My thoughts. Sounds like a plan, but I do not have the time nor the funds to support this. This is my only car, DD.

In what I was originally saying, is this something that I'm just gonna have to wait and see when they open it up? I saw somewhere that if there's enough wear and metallic debris, I need the whole rear end taken apart and cleaned. Fingers crossed, praying this isn't the case... Yikes :eek: :shake:

Hoping and praying it's just bearings and seals that need replacing. Those come cheap. How will I know if it's enough damage to have to replace it all?

[lifespeed]

How much $$$$'s are you spending?

Probably about $800 - $900. Well worth it to resolve this problem. It is a PITA to pull the axle, down the car and ship it by truck but the factory design doesn't cut it and I am not buying another set of 31-spline C-clip axles to chew up.

I was looking into a floating axle setup using Winter's Performance spindles and hubs. This is possible, but results in a 4-3/4" bolt pattern in the rear along with more fabrication and expense. It is do-able (I am replacing the wheels anyway), but may be a bit overkill. Going to make some measurements this weekend and figure it out.

[lifespeed]

My thoughts. Sounds like a plan, but I do not have the time nor the funds to support this. This is my only car, DD.

In what I was originally saying, is this something that I'm just gonna have to wait and see when they open it up? I saw somewhere that if there's enough wear and metallic debris, I need the whole rear end taken apart and cleaned. Fingers crossed, praying this isn't the case... Yikes :eek: :shake:

Hoping and praying it's just bearings and seals that need replacing. Those come cheap. How will I know if it's enough damage to have to replace it all?

It is never just bearings and seals, you'll need axles too. Which isn't all that cheap compared to $900. And depending on how long you keep the car you'll have to do it again.

But I understand everybody has their limits. I can and will fix the design problem and not revisit it. It isn't that convenient for me either, my daily driver as well.

[MOTOWN]

Probably about $800 - $900. Well worth it to resolve this problem. It is a PITA to pull the axle, down the car and ship it by truck but the factory design doesn't cut it and I am not buying another set of 31-spline C-clip axles to chew up.

I was looking into a floating axle setup using Winter's Performance spindles and hubs. This is possible, but results in a 4-3/4" bolt pattern in the rear along with more fabrication and expense. It is do-able (I am replacing the wheels anyway), but may be a bit overkill. Going to make some measurements this weekend and figure it out.

If your going to go to this extent fab a 9" rear end , and integrate the abs rings , and watts link.

[lifespeed]

If your going to go to this extent fab a 9" rear end , and integrate the abs rings , and watts link.

The thought occurred to me, but welding on new housing ends is a minor mod compared to a whole 9" which is fairly incompatible with the Watt's link mount location on the 9" chunk.

I've thought of all kinds of cool things for the rear, including a De Dion axle with a 9" IRS center. That would be truly epic and would do amazing things for the ride and handling via the 80% reduction in unsprung weight. Did you know the major ride and handling disadvantage of the live rear axle relative to IRS rear is not so much the lack of independence, but the unsprung weight? But the size of such a project is a bit much for me right now.

[MOTOWN]

The thought occurred to me, but welding on new housing ends is a minor mod compared to a whole 9" which is fairly incompatible with the Watt's link mount location on the 9" chunk.

I've thought of all kinds of cool things for the rear, including a De Dion axle with a 9" IRS center. That would be truly epic and would do amazing things for the ride and handling via the 80% reduction in unsprung weight. Did you know the major ride and handling disadvantage of the live rear axle relative to IRS rear is not so much the lack of independence, but the unsprung weight? But the size of such a project is a bit much for me right now.

Although a 9" isn't necessary on a Marauder i think it would be a Kick ass mod , my fabricator in Detroit says the watts link isn't a big deal to mod on a 9" nodular iron center section , its the abs ring that would need to be thought out , at some point i may take on this mod.

[fastblackmerc]

My thoughts. Sounds like a plan, but I do not have the time nor the funds to support this. This is my only car, DD.

In what I was originally saying, is this something that I'm just gonna have to wait and see when they open it up? I saw somewhere that if there's enough wear and metallic debris, I need the whole rear end taken apart and cleaned. Fingers crossed, praying this isn't the case... Yikes :eek: :shake:

Hoping and praying it's just bearings and seals that need replacing. Those come cheap. How will I know if it's enough damage to have to replace it all?

If there is a large amount of metal particles you'll need to clean the rear... don't want any extra metal left in there!

[RF Overlord]

Hoping and praying it's just bearings and seals that need replacing. Those come cheap. How will I know if it's enough damage to have to replace it all?If the axles have a groove you can feel with your fingernail, be sure they THOROUGHLY clean the entire housing. I made the mistake of doing what I *thought* was enough and had to have new axles again 2 years later due to the metallic debris that must have been left. This was even after doing a fluid change a couple of weeks after replacing the axles the first time.

[lifespeed]

If the axles have a groove you can feel with your fingernail, be sure they THOROUGHLY clean the entire housing. I made the mistake of doing what I *thought* was enough and had to have new axles again 2 years later due to the metallic debris that must have been left. This was even after doing a fluid change a couple of weeks after replacing the axles the first time.

The other possibility is the replacement axles were junk. From talking to rear end shops and reading the experiences of others it does appear the lifespan can be much less than 100K miles. I've got 30K miles on a set of aftermarket "made in America" axles, and they are noisy and have vertical play already.

[HotRaud90]

Well, it looks like it could be a very in depth process then. Guess I'll have to open it up and see. What is the proper cleaning process for the axle housing and differential if there has been a lot of wear and tear on the axles and bearings? I would have a shop do it since I'm gettin gears done anyways, but I wanna make sure they're doin it right the first time.

I'm very anxious to see what's goin on in there. I've experienced the low rumble, which is most likely a bad bearing that's grinding on the axle :depress:

Is the lubrication of the bearings a splash lubrication or a forced lubrication? Sounds like an issue similar to the tail shaft bearing in a transmission.

[BlkMamba24]

Another old thread resurrection but its the same problem. Never completly finished my axle job havent drove the car in a year now. Ive been doing some research on the 31 spline setup and i see that the cobra carrier works but i need 31 spline axles. The 05+ cvpi are an inch longer than the previous years and the marauder axles,will they work in a 03-04 axle housing or do i also need an 05+ axle housing?

I need a new housing regardless bcuz the one on the car is now damaged beyond reusing. Im doing different wheels n have upgraded to the 295 nittos in the back was hoping to put this together with the 31 spline cobra diff 05+ cvpi axles and reuse my 410 gears with new install kit. Another question, does the clutch pack kit come with the gear install kit or is it seperate?

[GreekGod]

... The 05+ cvpi are an inch longer than the previous years and the marauder axles,will they work in a 03-04 axle housing or do i also need an 05+ axle housing?

I believe you got some bad information. 2003< Town Car, Grand Marquis, Marauder, and Crown Victoria all have the same length rear axle shafts (either 28 or 31 spline count).

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