big 3 upgrade

[crownvic05]

So I know all you guys have herd of this and some of you have done this upgrade as well. Now I just had this done by a car audio shop. Everything looks good expect 2 things which I will be fixing myself. They only charged me 30 bucks for labor as i had all the supplys. I couod had done this myself but its to cold.

So 1st thing is that he told me that no fuse is needed between the alternator and battery 0 gauge cable. He said why install it if from factory it does not come with one. I means, makes alittle sense but why is it really needed?

2nd is where he did the engine block ground to negative post of battery. He installed it by the alternator bracket which i am not to happy about. Is that a real good engine block ground or is there better?

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/isatisfy2003/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20141219_193035_zps1452463 2.jpg (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/isatisfy2003/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20141219_193035_zps1452463 2.jpg.html)

[myrodr]

Factory ground is on the engine block. I would move it there.

[crownvic05]

And I just realized that that engine block is straight to the negative post and I belive its suppose to be to the engine chassiss.

[crownvic05]

So this is what he did,
1-battery positive to alternator(good).
2-battery negative to chassiss(good)
3-engine block to negative of battery(wrong). I believe this is suppose to be engine block to chassiss?
4-no fuse between positive battery and alternator(wrong). I believe there is suppose to be one there which I will install tomorrow.

Do I sound correct?

[Logizyme]

The factory B+ from the alternator to the battery has two fusible links wired in parallel for circuit protection which is recommended to prevent potential overcharging and electrical fires.

As far as negative upgrades go consider electrical flow. Many engine circuits will ground directly to the engine. The alternator grounds to the engine. The starter grounds to the engine. All of this electrical flow needs to make it back to the battery. The chassis also has many electrical systems grounding to the chassis. If you ground the engine to the chassis, all of that electrical flow will need to go through the chassis to B- terminal wire, in addition to the chassis grounds already using that circuit. By grounding directly from the engine block to the B- you skip using the chassis and have a better connection.

Ideally I would run my primary and largest ground from the engine directly to the B-. In fact for maximum redundancy I would run one ground wire from the starter(like factory) and another from near the alternator to the B-, and finally another from the block to the frame/fender.

Starter and alternator will use the greatest electrical load.

[8UWITH6]

Your installer did just fine. If you dont like how he did it install your own stuff the next go around. ;)

[crownvic05]

Ok so I will add the fuse tomorrow between the alternator and battery+. I will find a better engine block ground and move it there. As per the starter, I left it alone. Left the stock positive and negative cables in place.

[8UWITH6]

IF the fuse makes you feel better go ahead and install it. All it does is reduce current flow (which you are trying to improve). There is nothing wrong with grounding straight to the alternator case. I do this as well as the fender, and the engine block. HTH

[crownvic05]

But my battery volt gauge drops more then before. So wheres the problem? The only thing that comes to mind is that ground. Its right over the alternator bracket. I mean, maybe sand it down a bit and give it try?

[8UWITH6]

Add more grounds. Post to fender. Post to block. Post to alternator case. Yes, make sure they are clean and tight.

[crownvic05]

So post to fender is good. Used the factory location for fender next to the battery. That is nice and tight. Now, I just noticed that a factory block to negative post was reused. Same stock wire. And then the negative post to the alternator bracket which needs to be sanded down.

[crownvic05]

So as of right now, I am running 3 grounds. But one factory cable is being reused which is the main block to the negative post.

[jwibbity]

I done the big 3 on about 6-7 cars and never put a fuse on the alternator to battery wire......

[Zack]

I done the big 3 on about 6-7 cars and never put a fuse on the alternator to battery wire......

Agreed. Statistically it's completely unnecessary

[crownvic05]

So I should worry about my ground wires then.

[8UWITH6]

You can never have too many grounds.

[fastblackmerc]

On a Marauder there are three primary grounds IIRC.

Battery to chassis

Battery to engine block

Cam cover to firewall.

[fastblackmerc]

So as of right now, I am running 3 grounds. But one factory cable is being reused which is the main block to the negative post.

Why wasn't that one upgraded?

[Fastbob]

Agreed. Statistically it's completely unnecessaryIf the alternator were to short to ground you will then realize why there should be a fuseable link in the B+ from the battery to the alternator. Chances are really good you may never have a problem wired direct or it could go "POOF".

Just my 2 cents.

[Zack]

If the alternator were to short to ground you will then realize why there should be a fuseable link in the B+ from the battery to the alternator. Chances are really good you may never have a problem wired direct or it could go "POOF".

Just my 2 cents.

Correct.

That's why I said statistically unnecessary.
I have never had that happen, nor know anyone or have even heard of anyone have that happen to them.

[crownvic05]

So the fuse is just for a just in case. I dont see how it will affect the system though. I have a 200amp alternator so a high quality 250 amp anal fuse of good quality shouldnt affect anything.

So I did a quick video of how I re-did everything. I am now happy with it. Looks nice and clean ajd everything is nice and tight. The negative terminal was actually some what loose. I just need a engine block to chassis and it will be complete.

http://vid457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/isatisfy2003/Mobile%20Uploads/VID_20141220_143715_zpstwbbgmr r.mp4

[Logizyme]

^ Exactly - a high quality fuse will not reduce electrical flow on a properly designed system.

Although its highly unlikly that the fuse will ever be needed, if it is needed it will be preventing critical damage, possible electrical fires, alternator failures, battery explosions, and electrical surges which could destroy every electrical component in the vehicle. Its only potentially - and still highly unlikely - and many do just fine without it, what do you wanna be that "one" guy?

[crownvic05]

Im just going to add my fuse. I already paid 40 bucks for a high quality nvx anal fuse holder. I will.be adding it. Installed jl audio battery terminals. They are very neat and expensive as well. I will protect my install and most importantly my car with the inline fuse. Better be safe then sorry.

[crownvic05]

Just bought the anl fuse.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201187429205?redirect=mobile

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Anal fuse? :confused:

:eek:

[Fastbob]

Anal fuse? :confused:

:eek:It protects the shorts!:P

[crownvic05]

I kinda knew I was spelling it wrong. ANL fuse!!!!!

[eric jones]

"Anal fuse holder"....something stinks about this!

[crownvic05]

Not sure if its because I am missing the 0 gauge engine block to chassis but when I run my music loud and I am at a light in drive, my voltage drops to 13, sometimes low enough to 12 volts. Then I take off and it gets to 13.8-14 volts. now, this drop only happens with the music loud. I have about 2000-2200 watt rms of music. I am running a 200 p71 alternator. Will I need a secound battery or will the 0guage engine block to chassis solve this issue?

[Comin' in Hot]

What kind of volt gauge are you using in the car? If you are using a marauder volt gauge it's not very accurate.

[crownvic05]

What kind of volt gauge are you using in the car? If you are using a marauder volt gauge it's not very accurate.

Glowshift volt gauge
http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/white-7-color-volt-gauge.aspx

[fastblackmerc]

Not sure if its because I am missing the 0 gauge engine block to chassis but when I run my music loud and I am at a light in drive, my voltage drops to 13, sometimes low enough to 12 volts. Then I take off and it gets to 13.8-14 volts. now, this drop only happens with the music loud. I have about 2000-2200 watt rms of music. I am running a 200 p71 alternator. Will I need a secound battery or will the 0guage engine block to chassis solve this issue?

I don't think there is a problem. Gauge is reporting correctly.

[jwibbity]

Not sure if its because I am missing the 0 gauge engine block to chassis but when I run my music loud and I am at a light in drive, my voltage drops to 13, sometimes low enough to 12 volts. Then I take off and it gets to 13.8-14 volts. now, this drop only happens with the music loud. I have about 2000-2200 watt rms of music. I am running a 200 p71 alternator. Will I need a secound battery or will the 0guage engine block to chassis solve this issue?

With a perfect 14.4V system you will pull anywhere from 140 to 152A with the amps maxed out, most alternators only put out there rated amperage above a certain RPM, 1000-1200, which is above your idle speed, so that coupled with you having you foot on the brake causing the brake lights to light up, slow engine speed, and high amp draw from your amplifiers your volts will drop until you reach the minimum engine speed to where the alternator can keep up with the amp draw.

I would first finish the big 3, the negative is the "return" in a DC voltage system. Your total amp draw will be limited by the smaller gauge engine block to chassis wire unless you have another ground wire runnning from the engine block.

[crownvic05]

With a perfect 14.4V system you will pull anywhere from 140 to 152A with the amps maxed out, most alternators only put out there rated amperage above a certain RPM, 1000-1200, which is above your idle speed, so that coupled with you having you foot on the brake causing the brake lights to light up, slow engine speed, and high amp draw from your amplifiers your volts will drop until you reach the minimum engine speed to where the alternator can keep up with the amp draw.

I would first finish the big 3, the negative is the "return" in a DC voltage system. Your total amp draw will be limited by the smaller gauge engine block to chassis wire unless you have another ground wire runnning from the engine block.

Sounds correct. I will finish the big 3 which in my case I guess it will be the big 4 because I already have the alternator to battery, engine block to battery and fender to battery. Lets see what happens after the last wire install.

[crownvic05]

Did a quick video for you guys. I am spanish so I do more spanish music then american.
When in the car with the family, radio is not to be turned up past 25-30. Whwn im all by myself, I go full throttle at about 50-52 volume.

http://vid457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/isatisfy2003/Mobile%20Uploads/VID_20141222_155310_zpsismtvnz 1.mp4

[fastblackmerc]

Did a quick video for you guys. I am spanish so I do more spanish music then american.
When in the car with the family, radio is not to be turned up past 25-30. Whwn im all by myself, I go full throttle at about 50-52 volume.

http://vid457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/isatisfy2003/Mobile%20Uploads/VID_20141222_155310_zpsismtvnz 1.mp4

Be prepared to start posting in this thread.......

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=40050

[crownvic05]

Be prepared to start posting in this thread.......

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=40050

Wow, thats crazy man. I feel for him.

Most of the time My music in my car is at the loudest when at car meets. Yes, I do listen to loud music but not always. I need to be in a mood for that. As of right now, I am doing good. My hearing is still all there as I actually had a physical done 4 months ago and everything was done just because I work for the Cancer Center.

I should consider getting a set of ear plugs. I am still looking to upgrade those 4 8" midbass to 10" so it will be louder. Ive been looking into a 250 or even 300 amp alternator if that might help my volt issue.

[ctrlraven]

Do you have a goal for your audio system?

Sometimes more is not always the best way or is even needed. I use to design and install car a/v stuff and did a lot of spl challenge competitions in IASCA (International Auto Sound Challenge Association). Creating a front sound stage will give you much better sound that you can enjoy. Notes should hit you from the front and beats hit you from the rear.

I have a very simple system in my car, quality hu which produces good preout volts to sending to an amp, 5.25" components up front, stock rear speakers, 4 channel amp (2 channels powering the front components, rear channels bridged to power a sealed 12" sub). Clear & crisp highs from the front and deep & solid lows from the rear.

If you have an amp, let the amp do all of the frequency handling, leave your headunit with a flat signal.

[crownvic05]

This is my setup for now.


http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/isatisfy2003/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20141030_184131_zps65b3a13 4.jpg (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/isatisfy2003/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20141030_184131_zps65b3a13 4.jpg.html)
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/isatisfy2003/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140801_135828_zps561a07a d.jpg (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/isatisfy2003/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140801_135828_zps561a07a d.jpg.html)

Coming are 4 10" crescendo midbass voice speakers and I'll probably get better subs. As of right now, my midbass over takes the subs. My set up is super crisp and clear.
My goal is to have it all balanced out correctly. I can keep my rear deck set up as is and just upgrade my subs but I'm really looking into louder. After this, then I am done with my system.

The 5 channel on the right is powering my tweeters and my subs.
4 channel on the left is powering my 4 8" rear deck and my 2 front door 6".

[8UWITH6]

Be prepared to start posting in this thread.......

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=40050

Really FBM? LOL. Dont scare people. Its just car audio.

[fastblackmerc]

Really FBM? LOL. Dont scare people. Its just car audio.

Not trying to scare anyone.

Maybe you should check this out.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/tinnitus/basics/causes/con-20021487

You should also peruse the thread I referenced to see how many members have it and how they got it.

Once your hearing is damaged it does repair itself.

LOL

[RF Overlord]

Really FBM? LOL. Dont scare people. Its just car audio.Just car audio? 2200W RMS is an absurd amount of power for a concert hall, nevermind in a tiny enclosure like a car.

Young people may pooh-pooh the idea, but hearing damage is real and frequently doesn't show up until you're older...by then it's too late.

Ask me how I know...or ask Neil Young...Phil Collins...Eric Clapton...Pete Townshend...

[8UWITH6]

What? Huh? I can't hear you guys. Can you speak up?

You act like people with high end stereo systems listen to them at full volume all the time................

Is your supercharged Marauder at wide open throttle all the time????????????

NOPE.

Just my .02 fellas.

[crownvic05]

Once again, my dad has been in this game for a long time. He is now 58 and still hears perfectly fine. Loud music at home wnd loud music in his cars. My system is way louder then his but I dont blast it all the time. I assume that it can affect people differently. I know old guys that has been into this music bussiness for years wnd they are fine with there hearing.

But please, lets not start a argument about hearing lose. I am awear and all. I am some what carfull with what I do. This is still not going to stop me from getting my system how I want it. This is my project and it will continue to be until im fully satisfied. So really guys, thank you for your advices.

[RF Overlord]

You act like people with high end stereo systems listen to them at full volume all the time................The problem is that above a certain sound pressure level, the damage is cumulative. You don't suddenly go deaf from attending one AC/DC concert, but go to enough of them and I guarantee your hearing won't be the same when you get older.

[8UWITH6]

The problem is that above a certain sound pressure level, the damage is cumulative. You don't suddenly go deaf from attending one AC/DC concert, but go to enough of them and I guarantee your hearing won't be the same when you get older.

Yep. Got it.

Back to the original thread. Crownvic05 did your voltage come up and become more steady at idle and under full volume after upgrading the grounds?

[crownvic05]

Didnt do that ground yet. Still waiting on parts. As per the voltage, I beleive my issue was fixed. A CVN.net told me to up my rpms at drive and park do to my steeda UD pulleys. So at park my rpm was at 800. At drive it was 600. So I upped it to 1000 at park and 850 at drive and problem resolved for now. I drove for a good hour at high volume and voltage didnt drop lower then 13.4. Im guessing that after im all done with upgrading the cables, that it should work best.

[crownvic05]

Honestly, car does feel alittler better to. It had this little shake while in drive at stop lights and stuff and its now gone.

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

The grounds by the passenger kick panel are crappy from the factory. After messing with mine when doing the blend door I noticed the light shimmerings went away, When I was messing with the led swaps I moved the ground wires and the shaky lights are back.

[fastblackmerc]

Didnt do that ground yet. Still waiting on parts. As per the voltage, I beleive my issue was fixed. A CVN.net told me to up my rpms at drive and park do to my steeda UD pulleys. So at park my rpm was at 800. At drive it was 600. So I upped it to 1000 at park and 850 at drive and problem resolved for now. I drove for a good hour at high volume and voltage didnt drop lower then 13.4. Im guessing that after im all done with upgrading the cables, that it should work best.

If yo would have told us in the beginning that you had underdrives we would have told yo the same thing. Well known fact that you need to increase the idle speed by 200RPM with underdrives.

[crownvic05]

It didnt cross my mind.

[crownvic05]

The grounds by the passenger kick panel are crappy from the factory. After messing with mine when doing the blend door I noticed the light shimmerings went away, When I was messing with the led swaps I moved the ground wires and the shaky lights are back.

I will look into this. Im guessing this would also apply to crown vics?

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

My grand marquis seems to have the slight voltage fluctuation, but nowhere near the amount experienced in the Marauder.