Drive shafts

[Keith.Williams]

Looking to install an aluminum drive shaft on my 03 Mercury Marauder anyone know where I can find one. Trying to get 300hp to the wheels

[MOTOWN]

I have 761 to the wheels! on an OEM drive shaft , this is the most overrated mod there is , that cash will benefit you much more elsewhere! and look under your Marauder and you will find an aluminum drive shaft they came from the factory with them.

[cer0413]

I have 761 to the wheels! on an OEM drive shaft , this is the most overrated mod there is , that cash will benefit you much more elsewhere!
And now, I'm throwing that future mod idea in the trash.

[MOTOWN]

And now, I'm throwing that future mod idea in the trash.

Excellent! that cash can be spent where you actually get a bang for your buck!

[cer0413]

Excellent! that cash can be spent where you actually get a bang for your buck!
I'll use some of that cash to buy the DTR a paint job and you a drank. (Lean)

[MOTOWN]

LOL!:beer:

[Bad_S55]

Catch me if I'm wrong, but isn't the P71 driveshaft the same as a Marauder's?

[justbob]

I have 761 to the wheels! on an OEM drive shaft , this is the most overrated mod there is , that cash will benefit you much more elsewhere! and look under your Marauder and you will find an aluminum drive shaft they came from the factory with them.


100% truth. I would have never upgraded if I would have stayed automatic. I was only 460 to the wheels but that was torture tested for 45,000 miles without a single problem.

Take the saved money, buy a nitrous set up and enter the 400 RWHP+ club. :)


Builder Of Badassery

[cer0413]

100% truth. I would have never upgraded if I would have stayed automatic. I was only 460 to the wheels but that was torture tested for 45,000 miles without a single problem.

Take the saved money, buy a nitrous set up and enter the 400 RWHP+ club. :)


Builder Of Badassery
Can I be in your club?

[justbob]

Can I be in your club?


Not sure. I believe you need a certain level of OCD, patience, lack of sleep, and a wife that talks you into all the things you both know you can't afford!

I say go for it!


Builder Of Badassery

[cer0413]

Not sure. I believe you need a certain level of OCD, patience, lack of sleep, and a wife that talks you into all the things you both know you can't afford!

I say go for it!


Builder Of Badassery
OCD check, patience check, lack of sleep, working on that, no wife yet, but I do have a GF who helps with the things I can't afford, like a dyno tune or s/c install lol.

[justbob]

OCD check, patience check, lack of sleep, working on that, no wife yet, but I do have a GF who helps with the things I can't afford, like a dyno tune or s/c install lol.


Cool. So when are you going with the D-1SC? :D

See, I can help you make unwise financial. Decisions! Tell ya what, your GF and I will go out for some heavy drinks, catch a cab to a quiet place where we can ummm think??? heavily. This should help our creative juices to help you out my man. I mean, budgeting and setting a build path takes a LOT of exercise!!


Builder Of Badassery

[justbob]

Back to topic.

OP, if you got the extra coin laying around and feel the need then upgrades are fun so go for it. But if that isn't the case then take a look at the history on some of these brilliant builds around here and the fact they are still using the stock shaft (which in itself is a great shaft). Don't get too caught up in some bragging about theirs and why you NEED it. It's easy to say that to justify your expenditure.. I know because I sell myself on crap I don't really need ALL THE TIME, but I never publicly sell it because I know better.

Nothing like shiny new upgraded parts however! :)


Builder Of Badassery

[cer0413]

Cool. So when are you going with the D-1SC? :D

See, I can help you make unwise financial. Decisions! Tell ya what, your GF and I will go out for some heavy drinks, catch a cab to a quiet place where we can ummm think??? heavily. This should help our creative juices to help you out my man. I mean, budgeting and setting a build path takes a LOT of exercise!!


Builder Of Badassery
Lolololololol......

[Mr. Man]

The OP may have heard of the vibration wobble that can occur at higher speeds, hence the ?.

Has anyone taken their OEM drive shaft to a shop to have it balanced more precisely to eliminate the wobble?

Is or would the cost of going this route be prohibitive vs. just replacing with a P-71?

To whomever asked, the MM did not come with a P-71 drive shaft. It was supposed to, but penny-pinchers at Mercury......

[sailsmen]

The Top Speed was Drive Shaft Limited. Over a certain speed and the shaft wobbles or gets out of round.
Why? The shaft lacks the strength to with stand the loads at higher speeds and "bends".
Balance it all you want to, but it will not stop it from bending at the higher speeds.
If you are hitting 120MPH at the track with 4:10s, get a stiffer drive shaft.

Auto Blog
Before we get started, we feel the need to repeat the standard issue warning about automotive stupidity: Do not try what's shown in this video, and if you do, make sure it's in the safe confines of a legitimate track facility.

One individual recently learned firsthand what happens when you remove the factory's 112-mph speed limiter on the Ford Mustang V6 and proceed to accelerate to 135 mph. The vehicle lost its driveshaft, which turned itself into a spinning hunk of metal that tore into the floorpan, bashed through its interior bits and generally caused mechanical mayhem.

The term for this type of failure is "catastrophic."

So, what happened? Well, we might first point out that the driver of this particular Mustang was clearly still accelerating after the drivetrain started making suspect noises – never a good idea. We have to imagine the vehicle was vibrating like an overloaded Magic Fingers bed before things went sideways.

As it turns out, the 305-horsepower and 280-pound-feet of torque 3.7-liter V6 Mustang is built with a 2.73 rear gear ratio and a lightweight, one-piece driveshaft that's engineered to toe the line between fuel economy and performance. That driveshaft is part of the recipe that allows the coupe to yield 31 mpg highway – it simply isn't built to handle the type of speeds the owner in the video after the jump submitted it to.

In a statement to Autoblog, Ford said that the Mustang V6 is "the ultimate in fuel economy and performance," noting that owners looking for more speed should look toward the Mustang GT with its 412-horsepower V8, heavy-duty two-piece drive shaft and variety of rear axle ratio choices. The Mustang GT is speed limited to 145 mph from the factory.

As an aside, we would also like to point out the idiocy of trying to film oneself at triple digits by hand. While the YouTube description says that the impromptu test course is a "closed" road, it looks like it might be a public roadway. The videographer is lucky to be alive. Keep it on the track, people, and hit the jump to see the clip for yourself.

[Logizyme]

To start, YES, the marauder did come with a driveshaft that is identical to a similar model year P71 Police package crown victoria - this includes the extended transmission output shaft and housing. The only difference between a 03-04 P71 and an 03-04 Marauder is the transmission slip yoke, which on the Marauder includes a harmonic/vibration dampener - which was used on many of the higher-optioned panther platform vehicles.

Regarding the factory driveshafts in general, there are really only 3 different types to be concerned about for 98+ Panther platform. The steel driveshaft - used on all civilian models exept Marauders. The standard aluminum driveshaft - used on all marauders and P71 not equipped with the next driveshaft - this shaft somewhat shorter than the steel shaft required the use of the extended transmission output shaft and housing. The last driveshaft is the aluminum metal matrix composite (MMC) - this driveshaft was used on SOME 99-00 P71's only if factory equipped with 3.55 RAR - 99-00 P71 with 3.27RAR will not have come factory with the MMC, not all 99-00 with 3.55RAR will have the MMC. Ford issued a TSB for P71 models that would allot the non-MMC to be replaced by MMC is certain applications 99-01 - so it may be found in other P71 models. The MMC is the same length as the standard aluminum. The Aluminum MMC is a composite, aluminum reinforced with carbon boride - construction wise it is similar to carbon fiber, but instead of epoxy reinforced carbon fiber is is carbon boride and aluminum. The MMC driveshaft was manufactured by Alcoa.

All of the factory driveshafts can hold up to huge amounts of power. The issue requiring upgrades is high speed balance, just like your wheels, driveshafts need balance because they are spinning at high speed. If one side of the shaft weighs more than the other at high speed the shaft will be pulled to the heavier side - creating the out-of-round wobble desribed here - this ultimately leads to failure that can cause very serious damage.

The MMC driveshaft was implemented because as a composite it could be made just as strong and fractionally lighter - somewhere between 1-2lbs. More importantly aluminum is a very ridgid metal, especially when compared to steel, this means it has more trouble couping with the balance vibrations - switching to a composite aluminum allows the metal to better absorb and manage balance vibrations reducing the possibility of failure.

So the big deal about upgrading your driveshaft will be speed. With both the 3.55 and 245/55/18 (marauder) and with 3.27 and 225/60/16 (03 P71) the factory speed limiter is set to 130mph (+/- 2mph) yeilding a driveshaft speed of approx 6000 rpm. This is the safe max driveshaft speed as I would describe it - you can certainly exceed it, but the more you exceed it by and the longer you do so increases the risk of failure.

If you have steeper gears, ie 4.10's, the driveshaft is spinning that much faster at any given speed. So as others have mentioned - if you intend on going 140mph with 4.10s, and upgraded driveshaft may be something to consider.

Things to improve the driveshaft:
Ensure the driveshaft is properly balanced.
Ensure the dampener is in good condition.
Ensure the U-joints are in good condition - consider replacing with heavy duty.
Find a good condition MMC driveshaft - ensure it is not damaged, consider balancing and new u joints - MMC is only a marginal improvement over standard aluminum.
Upgrade to an aftermarket MMC or Carbon fiber or two piece.

There was a few cases where some P71's got out of the factory without the speed limiter and out in montana and utah a couple of P71's were crusing 140mph and lost driveshafts - imagine that happening under your car - pole-vaulting time.

If high speed or steep gears are not an issue for you then dont worry about it.

[Bad_S55]

To whomever asked, the MM did not come with a P-71 drive shaft. It was supposed to, but penny-pinchers at Mercury......

That would be me. So the Marauder came with your average Vic/Marquis steel driveshaft? Dang....

[Green96]

That would be me. So the Marauder came with your average Vic/Marquis steel driveshaft? Dang....

No, it (Marauder) came with an aluminum drive shaft, but not the MMC composite shaft.

[vegasmarauder]

I have posted pics of the MMC markings in the Garage section of the photos on here. I still find them in the pick a part yards from time to time. they sell them for $27.50. Then I take them to the drive line shop for new joints and balancing and try to find a deserving Mrauder to put it in. I just hate to see them wasted. But the above info is )finally) the correct on marauder drive lines. By the way, I really don't notice any difference between the stock MM and the MMC drive shaft when driving on the freeway.

[stevengerard]

I have a drive-shaft loop on my car but with 4:10s and multiple visits to road tracks hitting 130 often I have not had any vibration issues with mine - maybe I'm just lucky.

[Bad_S55]

There're three 2000 CVPIs in one pick-a-part by me. As soon as the snow's gone, I'll check those out & see if I get lucky!

[Zack]

Any high horsepower car should have 1350 u-joints, especially if you get excellent traction.

To say otherwise is rolling the dice for yourself.

My .02.

I just spent $600 on my Lincoln Town Car driveshaft with best of everything stuff.
Take a walk into the back of a driveshaft shop and you may change your thinking about what's a good idea, or 'not needed'

[MOTOWN]

Any high horsepower car should have 1350 u-joints, especially if you get excellent traction.

To say otherwise is rolling the dice for yourself.

My .02.

I just spent $600 on my Lincoln Town Car driveshaft with best of everything stuff.
Take a walk into the back of a driveshaft shop and you may change your thinking about what's a good idea, or 'not needed'

The HP car / 1350 Us i agree with 100% if i keep mines ill install a 480LE with a custom Strage , or Mark Williams DS.

However the majority on this board with oem to slightly modded 450hp cars are wasting their money on aftermarket DS , my car runs fine at the top end with the stock shaft , but you are correct with high hp cars and 1350 u joints.

[Mr. Man]

The HP car / 1350 Us i agree with 100% if i keep mines ill install a 480LE with a custom Strage , or Mark Williams DS.

However the majority on this board with oem to slightly modded 450hp cars are wasting their money on aftermarket DS , my car runs fine at the top end with the stock shaft , but you are correct with high hp cars and 1350 u joints.
Perhaps the question is can a stock aluminum DS that picks up vibration be taken to a DS shop and be better balanced to eliminate the wobble or is the OEM DS as good as it can be from the factory?

[MOTOWN]

Perhaps the question is can a stock aluminum DS that picks up vibration be taken to a DS shop and be better balanced to eliminate the wobble or is the OEM DS as good as it can be from the factory?

Any vibration is more than likely due to bad U joints which i had in oem trim (replaced u joints), now at well over 700 hp i have 0 vibration , which by the way this whole vibration thing at high speeds is:bs:

[Zack]

I pulled the tailshaft seal right out of the trans at 130mph when it had almost no miles on it.
Car had a tune and 4:10''s at that time.

Driveshaft 'whip' is very real.

My very first post on the site:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=837

[MOTOWN]

I pulled the tailshaft seal right out of the trans at 130mph when it had almost no miles on it.
Car had a tune and 4:10''s at that time.

Driveshaft 'whip' is very real.

My very first post on the site:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=837


That failure is clearly not the norm , i drove CVs on a daily basis at work from 98 to 2012 and in that time i had one DS failure (probably the curb i jumped ) i never had a issue with my Marauder and the DS and the so called upgrade is a total waste of time and money.

[Zack]

That failure is clearly not the norm , i drove CVs on a daily basis at work from 98 to 2012 and in that time i had one DS failure (probably the curb i jumped ) i never had a issue with my Marauder and the DS and the so called upgrade is a total waste of time and money.

You are absolutely correct, because Ford governed the cars at 117mph.

The cop cars that were not governed had the mmx driveshafts in them.

[Joe Walsh]

I pulled the tailshaft seal right out of the trans at 130mph when it had almost no miles on it.
Car had a tune and 4:10''s at that time.

Driveshaft 'whip' is very real.

My very first post on the site:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=837

"This is my first post, great site by the way. To start off, I want List my Mods so far...
4:10 Gears
Reinhart Chip & Plugs"

Ahhhh....the memories.....

I had the same mod....it only took 3+ months to get them from DR!

Tune turned out to be a friggin' mess and almost cost me an engine, if only I had known....:shake:

BTW: I 've got one of those unneeded, expensive driveshafts.
Tested it coming back from MV3 in Detroit at (allegedly) very high speeds for extended periods.....smooth as glass.
I don't want to "pogo stick" my Marauder at 125+ mph.

[fastblackmerc]

"This is my first post, great site by the way. To start off, I want List my Mods so far...
4:10 Gears
Reinhart Chip & Plugs"

Ahhhh....the memories.....

I had the same mod....it only took 3+ months to get them from DR!

Tune turned out to be a friggin' mess and almost cost me an engine, if only I had known....:shake:

BTW: I 've got one of those unneeded, expensive driveshafts.
Tested it coming back from MV3 in Detroit at (allegedly) very high speeds for extended periods.....smooth as glass.
I don't want to "pogo stick" my Marauder at 125+ mph.
A drive shaft hoop will prevent pogo sticking.

[Joe Walsh]

A drive shaft hoop will prevent pogo sticking.

True....but it won't prevent high speed vibrations and U joint failure.

As a matter of fact....:hmmm:
I've got a METCO driveshaft loop squirrelled away somewhere in the garage!

[tbone]

Before I got my mmx driveshaft, I would get vibrations at about 115 mph. Not any more. That's all I care about. I paid @ $45 plus new u joints.

[justbob]

Any high horsepower car should have 1350 u-joints, especially if you get excellent traction.

To say otherwise is rolling the dice for yourself.

My .02.

I just spent $600 on my Lincoln Town Car driveshaft with best of everything stuff.
Take a walk into the back of a driveshaft shop and you may change your thinking about what's a good idea, or 'not needed'


Pft. $600 :P

I about shat myself at $800!

But all is smooooth again. :)


Builder Of Badassery