Been hit? Diminished Value saga continues...

[2003 MIB]

THIS ONLY APPLIES IF SOMEONE HIT YOU NOT IF YOU HIT SOMEONE...

Okay folks, I want to update you all on my “Diminished Value” claim with Progressive Insurance. This is a long story and I know some of you are already aware (and maybe bored) with the story but if I can put some money in a member’s pocket, I want to do it.
In summary, a young lady who carried insurance with Progressive hit my car. Progressive paid for the repair on the car and she looks great however my contention is that the car has a lower inherent value than an identical car that has not been wrecked. The Texas Supreme Court (other states too) has ruled that an insurance company does not have to pay “diminished value” on an insured vehicle. HOWEVER, there remains a provision for a third party claimant to recover these losses. This means if someone hits you and they have insurance- their insurance company must pay you any damages (or losses) in an effort to restore you to the pre-accident state.
My Marauder had 9,362 miles on her at the time of the accident. The damages totaled $3217.95. I sent faxes professing the future collector value of the car and Progressive countered with there was no accurate way to calculate my loss. The vehicle had been repaired to its pre-accident state and that was their liability. They said in order to quantify a claim; I would need to provide them with data that shows that a 2003 Mercury Marauder with similar mileage and similar damage sold for less than a 2003 Mercury Marauder with no damage. This of course, is a task of Herculean proportions. I would have to find from a population of 7094 black 2003 Mercury Marauders a set of 9300 mile vehicles that had sold and the impossibly small group of $3200 damaged vehicles that had sold within that set. Time to give up? Not this cowboy.
There are a few (very few) companies that specialize in third party appraisals that have an established history of providing documentation for third party diminished value claims. No one tells you about it- you must research. I have an appointment with a company called Stated Value for an appraisal on 28APR04. I am confident that their 7-15 page report and a demand letter will yield a satisfactory solution.
I plan to post the results of the appraisal and claim resolution. My advice after fighting with these folks is don’t give up and don’t sign a release. Prepare for a fight.
I'm very thankful to Bob, Marty and especially Ross for their wisdom and experience. If I’m jousting with windmills, they never discouraged me and that’s pretty cool.
If I win this, you can too! More to follow.

[Black Terror]

Stick to your guns. I had to go to CEO of Progressive to get a rental car paid for that was equal to the car that was damaged in an accident caused by their policyholder. Company is very hard to deal with. They did pay "diminished value" which I compared with CARMAX(the value they used).

[sailsmen]

I am sceptical of the entire diminished value concept based on the statistic that the majority of vehicles over 4 years old have been damaged!

I am not aware of dealers reporting "damaged" vehicles as selling for less. I have never heard of a modern vehicle getting a higher price as being "undamaged".

This all assumes the repairs were properly done and restored the car to the mfg standards.

Having said that good luck with your efforts and let us know the end result.

[SheboyganGuy]

I went through a similar experience about 4 years ago. I was rear-ended at an intersection by an F-250 going 45+ mph. I was waiting for a stop light in my new F-150 (less than 6k miles). There was over $10,000 damage to the vehicle, and my insurance company refused to total it.

So I started the "diminished value" argument, and made my insurance agent run that up the corporate flagpole. I will say that he made a good case for me, maybe too good:

The end result was that I traded the truck in as soon as it was fixed. A couple months later, in my insurance statement, was a new amendment to the company's auto insurance policies, clearly stating that the policy could not, did not, and would not cover diminished value claims (insert your own legal-eze here...).

I have a feeling my situation had something to do with that new amendment...can't be sure, but it seemed to be more than coincidental...

Good luck, will be interesting to hear how this turns out!

[Racerx88]

Dan, I don't know if this helps or not, but my car had $3504 worth of damage when I traded it in on the '04. Eagle sold it the next day as-is. You might want to check and see what they sold it for. That plus the $3504 would be an approximate value for that car. Can't match you on the mileage though. My car had almost 23k on it at the time. Good luck........

[jstevens]

I for one believe in dimished value.
I mean, come on. If I look at a car and notice different color paint in certain areas that indicate a repair was done, I'm not going to even come close to offering blue book value.
After all, it is damaged goods no matter how you look at it.

Good luck on your mission.

[Marauderman]

Well --first off--stick to your guns --and heres why-

Most of the older members here know of or have heard of my situation last year--in short-- got rear-ended by a large trash truck which pushed me into the rear of a large landscaping truck with a power seeder gun/turrit....car had 2886 miles and just 103 days old...

Their insurance paid for my repairs and medical and then came the deminished value claim..like you--know one told me nor has a way to go about this...so I in-listed a board member here ( Thanks Mac) who had just sold his MM w/about 7- 9K I believe, anyway, --I asked him to certify a letter to me of its value at sale ( not damaged) and then I used that against mine which was much younger and put together a statement that showed my current value less an MM with more than 7-9K more miles, against the sticker, caused it was the only "value" to compare since there was no history (value) for the car as yet. and requested the maximun loss depreciation value allowed by state law---in NC it is 35% of the damage--mine was $19,217-....thus they really had no choice but to present me with what any sane owner would do now since it wasn't worth anything to anyone --but take their money and mod her up,up ,up.....thus ...my fine #7 Dennis Reinhart Votec V-2 SuperCharger on top of my previous modes till then...


So ..yeah --go for it--make them pay...put together a good compariable case and it should go in your favor... :up: ........Tom

[Bigdogjim]

Dan: In December I went to trade my '03 300A in on an '04 DTR.

The dealer only allowed me 17,000. for my car??

Another dealer did not evern what the car!!!!!!!(bad paint)

Other '03 Marauder's were selling wholesale for around 21,000 at the time.

Although my car was not hit, it did have very bad paint.

Needless to say I keep the car and now it going in to the paint shop on May 24 for a full warranty re-apint:)

Accident or not see this through......

Best of luck and please keep us posted:)

[2003 MIB]

I am sceptical of the entire diminished value concept based on the statistic that the majority of vehicles over 4 years old have been damaged!

I am not aware of dealers reporting "damaged" vehicles as selling for less. I have never heard of a modern vehicle getting a higher price as being "undamaged".

This all assumes the repairs were properly done and restored the car to the mfg standards.

Having said that good luck with your efforts and let us know the end result.

Very valid points!- I love this board. I can't disagree with anything you've said but do assume that I'll be offered less for the car (thanks to CARFAX and other such services) from a buyer or dealer. Their insured caused that loss. I was fat, dumb and happy with an undamaged vehicle when she ran the red light. It may be "restored" but is not "original". I'm not selling this car- she means to much to me. I will post the results.

[67435animal]

Very valid points!- I love this board. I can't disagree with anything you've said but do assume that I'll be offered less for the car (thanks to CARFAX and other such services) from a buyer or dealer. Their insured caused that loss. I was fat, dumb and happy with an undamaged vehicle when she ran the red light. It may be "restored" but is not "original". I'm not selling this car- she means to much to me. I will post the results.

Dan, you know my situation. I was hit from behind by an F-150. Fortuantely, the F-150 stands high enough that it ran over the bumper and into my trunk. I needed a new trunk lid, a new left rear quarter, new CD magazine player - these were the major parts and the highest labor cost.

My car was in the shop for five weeks. During that time, I checked on progress at least every other day. The car is now back in my hands and it is gorgeous. Unless you knew that it had been hit, you could not tell. My paint was close to perfect before and it has been repaired to that condition.

I spoke to the adjuster (Geico) about diminished value and he became a little defensive. I mentioned 'collector car', that I had visited the used car sales manager at a major local Ford dealer, and so on.

I asked him to investigate the process. He did and when he called me back, he explained that Geico has a table that the company has developed for diminished value. I got a check last week for $1050. While I probably could have pushed for more, I decided to let it go as I was unsure what my chances were of a higher yield versus the time and potential expense.

I'll be very interested to see how others are treated in this regard. It is an area that has no consistent policy in place for many companies and across all states.

My only suggestion is that when you are placing a claim in which you are not at fault, you should bring up diminished value as an issue early in the process. I discussed it as soon as I had a copy of the estimate in my hand.

I hope that my experience will help others.

My company is Progressive, but, based on the way they are treating MIB, I may change. How would I be treated as a policy holder?

Bob

[2003 MIB]

My company is Progressive, but, based on the way they are treating MIB, I may change. How would I be treated as a policy holder?

Wow Bob!-Thanks but I wouldn't advise anybody to leave Progressive based on this stuff. They were VERY responsive in every other aspect of the claims process. I like that Progressive is equipped with the mobile claims office (Ford Escape) with wireless hookup to the main office. I think most insurance companies are all taking a "don't ask don't tell" approach with diminished value claims and your advise to bring it up as early as possible is very sound. Most people don't know that they have this right to recover the loss. It's a business and they obviously want to write the smallest check possible and charge the largest premium that the market will allow.

[67435animal]

Wow Bob!-Thanks but I wouldn't advise anybody to leave Progressive based on this stuff. They were VERY responsive in every other aspect of the claims process. I like that Progressive is equipped with the mobile claims office (Ford Escape) with wireless hookup to the main office. I think most insurance companies are all taking a "don't ask don't tell" approach with diminished value claims and your advise to bring it up as early as possible is very sound. Most people don't know that they have this right to recover the loss. It's a business and they obviously want to write the smallest check possible and charge the largest premium that the market will allow.

Dan, maybe I was a little hasty in my statement. It is good to hear that Progressive treated you right other than with respect to diminished value.

It is likely that Geico is further along in the process of recognizing Diminished Value as a valid component of a claim. The other difference between you and me is location. The State of Georgia recognizes diminished value as a valid claim. Texas does not. What would be interesting to learn is what Progressive would pay out for diminished value in Georgia.

It is interesting to note that another MM board member who lives in GA and was in an accident did NOT receive a Diminished Value payment. Maybe you have to request it when you are not at fault.

Bob

[2003 MIB]

I took the Marauder in for appraisal yesterday. It was an amazingly detailed process. The guy wanted a list of every modification made and went over the car with a fine tooth comb. I wish I'd taken him with me when I picked up the car from the body shop. He showed me paint runs, misalignment, sanding marks, loose bumper cover and two missing fasteners (no worries- the repairs have warranty). The report takes about 5-7 days for completion. The plan then is to send a demand letter to Progressive for the dimininished value amount (I won't know that number until I see the report) and the appraisal costs ($386.25). I'm quietly optamistic. :up:

The company is also in the same airport as Lone Star Classics. They build replica Cobras, GT40s,and other stuff. They let me wander around and it was cool.

[djcwardog]

Dan, you know my situation. I was hit from behind by an F-150. Fortuantely, the F-150 stands high enough that it ran over the bumper and into my trunk. I needed a new trunk lid, a new left rear quarter, new CD magazine player - these were the major parts and the highest labor cost.

My car was in the shop for five weeks. During that time, I checked on progress at least every other day. The car is now back in my hands and it is gorgeous. Unless you knew that it had been hit, you could not tell. My paint was close to perfect before and it has been repaired to that condition.

I spoke to the adjuster (Geico) about diminished value and he became a little defensive. I mentioned 'collector car', that I had visited the used car sales manager at a major local Ford dealer, and so on.

I asked him to investigate the process. He did and when he called me back, he explained that Geico has a table that the company has developed for diminished value. I got a check last week for $1050. While I probably could have pushed for more, I decided to let it go as I was unsure what my chances were of a higher yield versus the time and potential expense.

I'll be very interested to see how others are treated in this regard. It is an area that has no consistent policy in place for many companies and across all states.

My only suggestion is that when you are placing a claim in which you are not at fault, you should bring up diminished value as an issue early in the process. I discussed it as soon as I had a copy of the estimate in my hand.

I hope that my experience will help others.

My company is Progressive, but, based on the way they are treating MIB, I may change. How would I be treated as a policy holder?

Bob

Bob,

Nice to see another big-block Corvette owner also attracted to the MM. I love both my cars. Luckily neither has been hit (while I owned them...). It is nice to be able to have two cars. The Vette never goes downtown and is only driven on a cruise or occasionally to the office on a nice day. Of course, your Vette is worth more than mine!

[67435animal]

Bob,

Nice to see another big-block Corvette owner also attracted to the MM. I love both my cars. Luckily neither has been hit (while I owned them...). It is nice to be able to have two cars. The Vette never goes downtown and is only driven on a cruise or occasionally to the office on a nice day. Of course, your Vette is worth more than mine!

Thank you! It's not the value that delivers the pleasure! It's the 'throw you in the back seat' torque. I drive mine only to shows and cruises. It has a 4:11 gear so it is not a great long haul driver.

Bob

[sailsmen]

Per The Insurance Journal Allstate won a class action suit and does not have to pay diminished value.

[2003 MIB]

Per The Insurance Journal Allstate won a class action suit and does not have to pay diminished value.

Only applies to first party claims. This means Allstate does not have to pay DV to their insured. Doesn't apply to third party claims- Allstate's insured hits someone else.

[muslhed]

Dan,
That truly sucks that you wrecked your Rauder. I assume you are alright?Connie & I are in a similar situation with her '03 VW turbo Wabbit. She got rear-ended, not by me, but by a Jeep while sitting at a stop light on a rainy day. While she is fine, the little hatchback hasn't fared so well. Currently the total damage is at $9985 smackers, and the value of the little basturd is $21K. That rules out the possibility of it being totaled, when you consider the 70% of vehicle value rule. We are looking into this whole diminished value thing right now. The insurance company paying for everything is Allstate, and as you know I'm in Texas. After reading all the other posts, it sounds like I'm against the odds.
We're most likely going to be trading her refinished VW in on the new VW R32 that just came out. It's identical to her GTI, but has AWD and a 260 hp 3.2 V6! Should smoke my rodder stock for stock, but we'll see! Take it easy man!

Jeremy

[nexstar7]

Dan: In December I went to trade my '03 300A in on an '04 DTR.

The dealer only allowed me 17,000. for my car??

Another dealer did not evern what the car!!!!!!!(bad paint)

Other '03 Marauder's were selling wholesale for around 21,000 at the time.

Although my car was not hit, it did have very bad paint.

Needless to say I keep the car and now it going in to the paint shop on May 24 for a full warranty re-apint:)

Accident or not see this through......

Best of luck and please keep us posted:) jim did they paint your car yet. how does it look? we missed you at the brewery last week.

[67435animal]

The insurance company paying for everything is Allstate, and as you know I'm in Texas. After reading all the other posts, it sounds like I'm against the odds.

Jeremy, Allstate should pay diminsihed value in your case as Connie was the victim. I recommend that as soon as you have a copy of the estimate, call the adjuster and ask him to give you a dollar figure for the Diminished Value of the little VW. He'll sqirm, but get it out there early and do not let it go.

They will pay you. Dan is leading the way in Texas.

Bob

[muslhed]

I'll give that a shot! Thanks for the advise!

[2003 MIB]

I'll give that a shot! Thanks for the advise!

Yes, please don't sign any release until I'll done with Progressive. I signed all the repair check with the follwing endorsement above my signature, "Repair only- Does not address diminished value claim." I'm glad Connie's okay...Were the boys in the car with her? Her VW is a sweet ride and I hope they fix it right. I spoke with the appraisal guy from Stated Value yesterday- he's being very detailed in the report and I'm feeling pretty confident. I'll keep everyone posted via this thread. Don't leave money on the table.

[muslhed]

The boys were not in the car, thank goodness! Her car was pretty sweet, but the R32 is much sweeter!

[2003 MIB]

The boys were not in the car, thank goodness! Her car was pretty sweet, but the R32 is much sweeter!

You make too much money, J. :P

[muslhed]

Shoot, I wish! It all goes to car payments! Why couldn't I just be a normal guy and buy an "Point-A to Point-B" car? Then I would just have a pair of paid for 1990 Geo Metro's in the garage! Ewwwww, the gas mileage is just aaaaawesome!!!

[2003 MIB]

I just got the report from the independant appraiser (Stated Value, Inc.), here's the breakdown:
On 22Mar04, my 9362-mile 2003 Marauder was involved in an accident with a Progressive-insured driver.
My approximate cash value prior to the incident was $28,965.00
My actual repair cost was $3028.67
My loss of value due to the amount of damage is $2511.26
The appraisal cost was $386.25
My mileage to and from the appraisal was $28.63 (76.34 X .375)
I sent a demand letter today seekiing a diminished value claim payment of $2926.14. I gave them five days to respond. I'll keep y'all posted.

[67435animal]

I just got the report from the independant appraiser (Stated Value, Inc.), here's the breakdown:
On 22Mar04, my 9362-mile 2003 Marauder was involved in an accident with a Progressive-insured driver.
My approximate cash value prior to the incident was $28,965.00
My actual repair cost was $3028.67
My loss of value due to the amount of damage is $2511.26
The appraisal cost was $386.25
My mileage to and from the appraisal was $28.63 (76.34 X .375)
I sent a demand letter today seekiing a diminished value claim payment of $2926.14. I gave them five days to respond. I'll keep y'all posted.

I'll be rooting for you! :up:

Bob

[muslhed]

Hey, maybe you can get that thing boosted now!!!

[jgc61sr2002]

I just got the report from the independant appraiser (Stated Value, Inc.), here's the breakdown:
On 22Mar04, my 9362-mile 2003 Marauder was involved in an accident with a Progressive-insured driver.
My approximate cash value prior to the incident was $28,965.00
My actual repair cost was $3028.67
My loss of value due to the amount of damage is $2511.26
The appraisal cost was $386.25
My mileage to and from the appraisal was $28.63 (76.34 X .375)
I sent a demand letter today seekiing a diminished value claim payment of $2926.14. I gave them five days to respond. I'll keep y'all posted.


Good luck. :up: I hope it works out for you.

[mungce]

I got my 300A in late July 2002, lucky to find a delership, found one that were Lincoln buyers, and didn't know what a Marauder even was....a diffferent story there !

My Insurance, the maximum I am forced to carry to meet Texas view of enough comprenhension insurance to fix a $30k car not to mention 300K property damage, through Gieghco, who like to bragg on the good rates they offer. Thats's the word, offer, as the 1st policy is fairly inexpensive, in fact enough to make most think they have finally figured out thid insurance game, and your winning, a little here, a bit more there, if you keep this up, in 10 years, years may have broke even, which is a win.

I was paying about $700 for 6 months. THEN, after my 1st claim, they want to and are dropping me. How much do you all spend ?
I smell a RAT here, as now that companies have paid out, finding that Marauder parts were some of the most expensive, and that many policy holders were paying Mercury Gran Marquie rate, as they had no special Marauder rates; now, as the new patches and PC programs, usually CLUE are finding it's a loosing thing and in Texas, unlike states that enjoy freedom of choice, we Texas must bite the bullett and pay out the , well you get the picture.

[Racerx88]

Hey Dan, did they ever respond to your demand letter?

[2003 MIB]

Jim,
I pay Geico $641.60 every six months for the Marauder.

Dean,
Progressive told me they don't recognize ICAR as experts on diminished value and they are denying the claim. I'm hunting a lawyer now but haven't looked really hard yet (time constraints)- I'm not done but it's a slow battle.

[Logan]

Did you ask them who they do recognize as diminished value experts? :)

[2003 MIB]

Did you ask them who they do recognize as diminished value experts? :)

Don't laugh- They only recoginze the opinions of their own highly trained claims adjusters. :puke:

[merc406]

Don't laugh- They only recoginze the opinions of their own highly trained claims adjusters. :puke:



Well of course :lol: Their experts don't cha know. :shake: :bs:


Find a lawyer.

[mungce]

Just wait till the insurance company checks and finds you listed as a Gran Marq.....then it's I'm some sorta insurance scammer; when I bought the car the insurance company marked it as a Gran Marq, main reason ? No source for Marauder on the " prized " insurance claim form. Now that they have to pay out, wham, I am out of insurance.....................

[mungce]

Diminished value ? I am just trying to get legal, nothing special, here !

[mungce]

What's the phone number of the appraisal place ? I need this same thing done to establish a legal battle with my old insurance company who dropped me, without good cause.

[2003 MIB]

What's the phone number of the appraisal place ? I need this same thing done to establish a legal battle with my old insurance company who dropped me, without good cause.I'm sorry you need this Jim but I'm happy to give it out:

Denise Ramsey
Stated Value Automobile Appraisal Company, Inc.
633 Aviator Drive
Fort Worth, TX 76179
(817) 439-3300
It should cost you $386.25- If they quote more- tell them you're a referral and that you've been talking with me.

-Dan

[mungce]

Thank you so much !!

[halucin8]

I called my adjuster from State Farm today. I only had my car three weeks before it sustained $13000 damaged at the hands of my girlfriend, a wet I-20 out of ATL and a concrete median.
He said that if the policy were written in Ga., then yes I could do something, but N.C. has no diminished value law.
I'm going to call the NC insurance commissioner and complain. Not that it will do any good, but I'll feel better.

later,
brian