180 degree T Stat?

[detrailers]

I've done this on my other vehicles.... Is it a benefit on our cars?

[RubberCtyRauder]

I have one , but I don't believe it helps without a tune/power adder. Somone else will confirm of correct me

[MOTOWN]

More importantly in a hot and humid state like Texas it would be ideal to maintain acceptable temps with the A/C running all the time.

[SergntMac]

160 degrees worked well for me, best when tuned for it. Still following this path with other Fords, like the 4.6L-3V, high HP and bone stock. If you change down, there are no consequences. When you do tune, you can add a little more timing and fuel, and that's a payback.

[babbage]

I've done this on my other vehicles.... Is it a benefit on our cars?

No because stock is 188, you want a 170 from Reische. Others will not have the correct thermal bypass unique to our motors.

See here: http://reischeperformance.com/#anchor

You can still get heat soaked and have the coolant get over 190, but this unit helps for sure. Moving along I get 175F all the time.

[detrailers]

Great info guys...but 60 clams! ...is there .a Jet or Stant alternative?

[babbage]

Great info guys...but 60 clams! ...is there .a Jet or Stant alternative?

Not that I'm aware of. These are quality hand modified and tested.


"Many have searched the internet and part stores for a properly fitting low temp thermostat for their late model GT500, Cobra, Mach 1, Bullitt, Mustang GT and Boss 302. Beware of aftermarket companies who sell the same thermostat for all Ford modular engines. Those units are designed for the 2V SOHC engine and, if installed in the improper housing, will be unable to shut off the bypass- allowing hot coolant to recirculate back into the engine at all times, reducing the efficiency of your cooling system."

[detrailers]

Anyone have recommendations for how much timing to add and what to change fan settings to?

[martyo]

Anyone have recommendations for how much timing to add and what to change fan settings to?

Don't fiddle with your tune. You are good where you are.

[babbage]

Don't fiddle with your tune. You are good where you are.


Heh-heh. :) Tstat will help your tune from pulling timing. helps it stay away from ping land when you are romping...

Get a scanguage II so you can see real water temps... Not sure if the new Xcals mounted etc can display this.

[MOTOWN]

Great info guys...but 60 clams! ...is there .a Jet or Stant alternative?

There is no need or reason to pay that much for a thermostat! they may good , but no thermostat is worth more than 10-15 bucks!

[Zack]

Heh-heh. :) Tstat will help your tune from pulling timing. helps it stay away from ping land when you are romping...

Get a scanguage II so you can see real water temps... Not sure if the new Xcals mounted etc can display this.

Have you seen a Marauder Timing vs. ECT table?
It won't pull timing until well into the 200's


There is no need or reason to pay that much for a thermostat! they may good , but no thermostat is worth more than 10-15 bucks!
A guy on FB is making them for 30 bucks now. They are worth every penny, even at 60.

[MOTOWN]

Have you seen a Marauder Timing vs. ECT table?
It won't pull timing until well into the 200's


A guy on FB is making them for 30 bucks now. They are worth every penny, even at 60.

Ill pass , a stant will do me fine , ill blow my cash elsewhere!

[martyo]

Heh-heh. :) Tstat will help your tune from pulling timing. helps it stay away from ping land when you are romping...

Get a scanguage II so you can see real water temps... Not sure if the new Xcals mounted etc can display this.

My comment was based on knowing how his tune is set up.

[SergntMac]

Whoops! Nevermind...

[babbage]

My comment was based on knowing how his tune is set up.


Was just chuckling at the fact that you didn't want him to mess with it!
I'm sure you guys know what you are doing.

[detrailers]

Have you seen a Marauder Timing vs. ECT table?
It won't pull timing until well into the 200's


A guy on FB is making them for 30 bucks now. They are worth every penny, even at 60.

Never bought or searched on FB for car parts.... You don't by chance have a link?

[whitey]

Get a stant 180°. If its a dd, you wont benefit any more from a 180 to a 170....its just going to make you poorer. Going too cold like a 160 or less can even be detrimental on a dd.

[detrailers]

From what I gather stock is 188 so really not worth it to do 180...plus sounds like the 170 is custom made for our motors. I'm a firm believer in doing it right so I'm $60 poorer at this point doh!

[justbob]

I've got the 160 but unfortunately I can't comment on it as my tuner failed to adjust for it. As for $60 to keep it running cooler, seems pretty cheap to me..


Builder Of Badassery

[fastblackmerc]

I spent the coin on the Reisch 170.... haven't regretted it one bit. The Marauder will run all day at all speeds and never get over 175. Can't wait to see how it will run this summer.

[tbone]

I've got the 160 but unfortunately I can't comment on it as my tuner failed to adjust for it. As for $60 to keep it running cooler, seems pretty cheap to me..


Builder Of Badassery


Sounds eerily familiar.

I went back to stock. It was taking FOREVER to get the car warm in the cold temps. That is IF it would even start since the cold start tables were never adjusted. It's in hibernation now. :sleepy:

[GreekGod]

Cylinder wall wear increases dramatically with lowered engine operating temperatures. Proper operation requires coolant temperatures high enough to minimize sludge formation from water condensed in engine oil. It is foolish to run a street car on a low temperature thermostats. Efficiency is obtained with a 200f running temp.

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http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/CylinderWallWear.gif (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/24256/title/cylinderwallwear/cat/500)

[SergntMac]

Gents;

I had an interesting conversation this afternoon with Zack. As a result, I owe all of you an apology for any confusion resulting from my previous posts. I have been away from this site for a while, and entertained by another Ford with a modular engine of the same displacement and aluminum construction. Nonetheless, I have studied my previous advice, and I stand by my original statement, however it may or may not apply to your automobile.


Have you seen a Marauder Timing vs. ECT table?
It won't pull timing until well into the 200's.


[SIZE="2"]Cylinder wall wear increases dramatically with lowered engine operating temperatures. Proper operation requires coolant temperatures high enough to minimize sludge formation from water condensed in engine oil. It is foolish to run a street car on a low temperature thermostats. Efficiency is obtained with a 200f running temp.

Gentlemen...I cannot understand what "well into" means. Neither can I understand the "foolishness of running a street car on a low temperature thermostat", the "efficiency of 200f", or how "sludge" forms in an engine running under 200 degrees.

The EPA requires a gasoline automobile engine to reach "normal" operating temperatures within 7 min. of cold ignition, thus, and by law, all engines must achieve a "cold" state at sometime prior to ignition. I would accept "parked overnight, engine off" as an answer. Is this when the sludge forms? Dark of night?

I know this much: Water alone boils at 212 degrees. 50/50 antifreeze/water mix boils at 223 degrees. 70/30 antifreeze/water mix boils at 235 degrees. So, somewhere between 212 and 235 degrees, trouble can brew.

Between the two of you, I see a very narrow path for correct tuning, pleasing performance, and longevity. Considering the temperature belts of this great nation, how can any tuner anywhere, prep an off-the-shelf tune for sale at retail, as so many do? Hell, how did Ford do it?

This is all my fault and I do apologize.

Carry on, gents...at the temperature of your choice.

[GreekGod]

Antifreeze/coolant - with a 50:50 mixture raising the boiling point of water from 248˚F at 14 psi, to 263˚F.

It is foolish to exponentially increase cylinder wall wear on a street driven car, for gaining an insignificant amount of timing and/or horsepower.

From Car & Driver:
http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/in-this-century-changing-your-oil-still-matters-feature

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[babbage]

Antifreeze/coolant - with a 50:50 mixture raising the boiling point of water from 248˚F at 14 psi, to 263˚F.

It is foolish to exponentially increase cylinder wall wear on a street driven car, for gaining an insignificant amount of timing and/or horsepower.

From Car & Driver:
http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/in-this-century-changing-your-oil-still-matters-feature

===


Wow sludge formed on a leased toyota with the same filter on for 40,000 miles? :rolleyes:

170 T-stat keeps engine temps at ~175 while moving, In the GREEN (ideal) area of of your graph. It *still* can and does get past 190 easily.... I only run this in the summer.. Also I run synthetic oil, changed 3000 ish miles, and an oil separator to keep water/oil out of engine..

Graph does not have enough resolution at .001 wear level, so the difference is what 0.0005? Did they use synthetic? No?

Sorry not buying it.

[justbob]

I've ran as low as a 160 for 26 years with ZERO issues. But must be true if it's on the Internet..


Builder Of Badassery

[SergntMac]

Antifreeze/coolant - with a 50:50 mixture raising the boiling point of water from 248˚F at 14 psi, to 263˚F.

It is foolish to exponentially increase cylinder wall wear on a street driven car, for gaining an insignificant amount of timing and/or horsepower.

From Car & Driver:
http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/in-this-century-changing-your-oil-still-matters-feature

===

OMG! I do now know which one of us is the greater fool.

Could it be you, for presenting material from an outside resource as your own thoughts and conclusions, a highly disgusting theft of Intellectual Property of another?

Or could it be me, for engaging you in this discussion, only to be lied too. To be mislead and distracted by a common thief and liar?

I choose YOU! And I do not stop there. You have done wrong to us all. You are a clown. A very large aze clown.

When Zack posts material regarding this (or any other automotive) topic, I know it to be truthful. It is what he believes to be the truth. He has a collective at play, his education, training, and experience. He is qualified to speak here, and speak with great authority. His conclusions may be disagreeable to me, but they are drawn from and based upon his learning, and presented honestly. Despite our personal differences, I trust his word on anything automobiles, and my trust is not misplaced. When Zack speaks out here, I rely on his word, until i can prove otherwise.

This principle of trust shared among us all guides us in so many ways, I do not know where to begin. Should Zack attempt to school me in anything law enforcement/criminal justice related, he would be out of line. Zack trusts in this and he knows his boundaries. You, sir, are way out of line. Boundaries? You are not even in the same stadium. Game over, you lost.

You! You freaking aze clown, do not understand this principle of mutual trust at play here, not one word of it, for one second. In a few simple sentences, you defeat this principle. You attack and destroy this most important element of trust we have built and bound ourselves to. You toy with us, and this is deeply insulting, tragic. If I knew where to find you, I would...Nevermind. You are not worth that effort. Hell, you are not worth my time here and now, but trust me on this. If I could do more than just shout foul at you, I'd be doing that right now.

Moreover, it gets worse. The source you now cite in support of your position/argument does not support you, not in the least. It contradicts you, or you contradict your own resource, I am not sure which, but that doesn't matter. Not only did you steal precious intellectual property from another and attempt to resell that as your own here, you stole the wrong property! You treated this topic to an Earl Schieb paint job with paint you don't even own! Did YOU read this article? Do YOU understand the content? I think not.

You are a worthless piece of sh&$t. Do everything in your power to avoid me everywhere we could possibly meet. Be it here in words, or at any automotive meet or gathering ahead for us. In either case, I promise you I will not leave you alone.

Enough. Let the membership speak for themselves.

The rest of y'all, carry on and be safe.

[Zack]

In seeing the direction this is heading, there is no point to continue.

Run what you want. Will a colder t-stat give you more performance? NO
Do tuners add timing into your tune when you tell them you run a 180? Hell NO

Does a cooler t-stat give most owners with FI some added piece of mind, regardless of it being beneficial or not? Hell Yes.

Good day.

[GreekGod]

http://www.carnut.com/ramblin/cool3.html

[GreekGod]

Thermostats have a “rated” temperature such as 180F or 195F
This is the temperature the thermostat will start to open, give or take 3 degrees
The thermostat is fully open about 15-20 degrees above its rated temperature

re:
http://www.stant.com/index.php/english/products/consumer-products/thermostats/abcs-thermostats/

[GreekGod]

here is a well written explanation>

http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/04/low-temp-thermostats-whats-the-advantage/

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[GreekGod]

The Importance of Oil Temperature >>>

http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2011/05/keep-your-engine-alive-the-importance-of-oil-temperature/

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