For those following ADTR.net Vortech Marauder kits

[RubberCtyRauder]

Link to some more info and forum for the Marauder Vortech systems ADTR is putting together.

http://www.pantherbb.com/Thread-ADTR-s-Mercury-Marauder-Supercharger-System

[Mebot]

Subscribing....

[Lowndex]

I am in line to receive a Stage 2 on April.

[MOTOWN]

Looks good so far.

[ARodmarauder]

Also follow them on Facebook they're always posting progress there


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[2mercs]

I asked about California emissions here's the response I was given. "It's not going to be sold as a CA legal kit but everything is there to make it legal. The blower will have an EO number, MAF is draw through and bypass valve recirculates. Many have passed with identical systems."

[1Marauder]

I tol' u!!!!

[1Marauder]

Coming soon to an engine compartment near you!

[RF Overlord]

Chris has an excellent reputation and this is really good news since there are no more Trilogy kits. It's nice to have an alternative to the Eaton swap for those who prefer a hair-dryer, especially since it will be a complete kit.

[Zack]

I really hope he offers the pipe kit and intercooler seperately.
That way folks can use a procharger instead (which I think has the better mounting hardware)

[HotRaud90]

Shwing! Looks nice. Subscribing as well.

[MOTOWN]

I really hope he offers the pipe kit and intercooler seperately.
That way folks can use a procharger instead (which I think has the better mounting hardware)

Surely your kidding:confused: Prochargers mounting hardware sucks! at best , unless you go with a renegade type mounting setup , that basic bracket Procharger uses for the mod motor flexes like crazy! add that to the fact their blowers have a severe leaking issue is part of the reason i went with a Vortech head unit over Procharger , love their intercoolers , BOVs though.

[Finally]

Has anyone caught a whiff of what the costs are and expected power differences between the 3 stages.woild a stock motor last with the stage 2 kit.
I would be only guessing that one could see at least 450 ish to the rear wheels with stage 2.

[RubberCtyRauder]

ADTR. Net 2v kits are like $5999. So I would imagine it will be similiar. Yes, it's a lot of $, but it will be complete so that's a bonus if you like to buy and go. Stock engine is good for around 450 Rwhp. Stage 2 will have a smaller pulley so more boost. A. 3.6 pulley with inter cooler can get 425 -450 and up pending tuning. I had a non inter cooled vortech on my old marauder and it was at 411. Vortech hp is in the higher rpm band , say 3200 rpm and up in general

[Pat]

The kit price of 6k is about the same as kits sold previously. Components are also similar,

installation and dyno tuning would be extra, probably in the $1.3K range.

This could be a nice opportunity for shops with a dyno to become a dealer, offer a reduced price for the dyno tune if they can do the installation.

Just thinking out loud.

[Marauderjack]

Surely your kidding:confused: Prochargers mounting hardware sucks! at best , unless you go with a renegade type mounting setup , that basic bracket Procharger uses for the mod motor flexes like crazy! add that to the fact their blowers have a severe leaking issue is part of the reason i went with a Vortech head unit over Procharger , love their intercoolers , BOVs though.


My mounting plate is very heavy and I cannot see how flexing could ever be a problem??:confused:

As far as leaks......you are spot on......ALL 4 HEADS I'VE OWNED LEAKED!!:mad2::argue:

Just had this one rebuilt with new seals they developed back in 2010 and so far it's DRY.....shhhh.....don't say it too loud!!:shake:

[martyo]

Chris has an excellent reputation and this is really good news since there are no more Trilogy kits. It's nice to have an alternative to the Eaton swap for those who prefer a hair-dryer, especially since it will be a complete kit.

That ^^^ right there!

[fastblackmerc]

Now if someone would start making the roots / Trilogy kit again.......................

[MMBLUE]

What's the cost going to be?????

[Mebot]

What's the cost going to be?????
Post #15 Pat says $6k for the kit plus another $1500 for installation/dyno

[Lowndex]

The kit price of 6k is about the same as kits sold previously. Components are also similar,

installation and dyno tuning would be extra, probably in the $1.3K range.

This could be a nice opportunity for shops with a dyno to become a dealer, offer a reduced price for the dyno tune if they can do the installation.

Just thinking out loud.

In northern California, BRG Racing has a dyno and many years of experience tuning. BRG Racing will be installing for me in May 2015.

[1Marauder]

We can do them together!!!

[TAKEDOWN]

Will any of the stages offered pass emissions?

[Lowndex]

Will any of the stages offered pass emissions?

Yes. However, to my knowledge, there is no absolute guarantee. A physical smog inspector can fail you if the CA certificate number does not show in the computer for your vehicle.

ADTR is producing Vortech based super charger systems with the CA carb certificate stamped on the unit (via Vortech, thank you).

[Lowndex]

We can do them together!!!

Nice to hear. Who is next? :)

[ARodmarauder]

Yes. However, to my knowledge, there is no absolute guarantee. A physical smog inspector can fail you if the CA certificate number does not show in the computer for your vehicle.



ADTR is producing Vortech based super charger systems with the CA carb certificate stamped on the unit (via Vortech, thank you).



You will need to take it to a certified station the deals with this. But as mentioned it's up the the smog tech because he can fail you (even with the carb number) just but popping the hood and seeing that supercharger there.


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[88LTDCV351]

Yes. However, to my knowledge, there is no absolute guarantee. A physical smog inspector can fail you if the CA certificate number does not show in the computer for your vehicle.

ADTR is producing Vortech based super charger systems with the CA carb certificate stamped on the unit (via Vortech, thank you).

I doubt Vortech created a new CARB number for this. Most likely, Chris at ADTR chose one of the existing Mustang Vortech head units that has the CARB number CARB EO D-213-27 already on it. This CARB number does include the Marauder as valid. See link below (third page), lists 2001-2006 Ford Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Marauder as smog legal

http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/eo/D-213-27.pdf

[88LTDCV351]

You will need to take it to a certified station the deals with this. But as mentioned it's up the the smog tech because he can fail you (even with the carb number) just but popping the hood and seeing that supercharger there.


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Yes, a smog tech can still fail you. But then I would suggest going the smog referee route. If you have the proper Vortech head unit with the CARB number that I mentioned above which allows for the Marauder and you followed all the specifications in that CARB number (max pulley size, max boost, etc. and didn't turn off any smog related equipment in the tune like EGR, Air Pump, etc.) then they shouldn't be able to fail you. Vortech did pay a fee for that CARB number and to list those vehicles which I'm sure the California Air Resource Board was happy to accept.

[88LTDCV351]

Let's not forget, there are a lot of Mustangs here in California with CARB approved kits. Its just a matter of the right Vortech head unit with the right CARB number and following the requirements in that CARB number.

[88LTDCV351]

6 or 7 years ago, the smog tech at Speedee Oil Change tried to fail my K&N kit when I got my smog check there. I had to point him to the CARB sticker and help him look up the CARB number on his computer in the lower bay. There was no "special database" that he had access to but I had to help him find it on the CARB website with the CARB pdf document and the same number on the K&N website and showing it was listed for the Marauder. Then he apologized and let me pass.

Not sure if you have to take the car to a special station unless required on your certificate to take it to a Gold Station or some other such thing. My 88 Crown Vic is required to take to a Gold Station because of its age but its listed on my renewal as being required to take it to a Smog Only Gold Station or other such thing. I would just suggest printing off the documents from the CARB website with the matching number that is on your Vortech head unit and walk the smog tech through how you are in compliance with everything on that piece of paper. If he needs to verify you didn't doctor up some document, he can check the same document on the CARB website. If he tries to fail you, then request to take the car to a smog referee.

[Lowndex]

I doubt Vortech created a new CARB number for this. Most likely, Chris at ADTR chose one of the existing Mustang Vortech head units that has the CARB number CARB EO D-213-27 already on it. This CARB number does include the Marauder as valid. See link below (third page), lists 2001-2006 Ford Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Marauder as smog legal

http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/eo/D-213-27.pdf

I spoke with Chris this afternoon and he deliberately used the Carb # which includes the 2003-2004 Marauder. However, a smog inspector who knows the car can fail your smog test. This is highly unlikely. To date, most successfully pass smog.

[Lowndex]

The Stage 2 will NOT pass CA Smog if the smog inspector looks under the hood and sees venting of metered air, which effects emissions and is illegal in CA (like everything else). Thus, Stage 2 and 3 are not specified to pass CA Smog.

But all is not lost. If you purchase the ADTR Stage 1 unit with the additional parts from the Stage 2, what you do with the combination is not ADTR's responsibility. This point is very important. If you ask ADTR will Stage 2 or 3 pass CA Smog, the answer will be, "no".

So, if one were so inclined, you might alter the piping to enable the use of a cap to cover the hole where a blow off valve might exist. A few additional steps are required to temporarily turn a Stage 2 into a Stage 1 for CA Smog testing (MAF unit removed, wiring crossover, load tune titled, "Smog Test").

The total effort involved in doable by even me, a lay person with limited auto mechanical skills. So, if I can do it, all of you can. An anonymous expert claims the time to do the work is about one hour.

I will share my personal notes (not anything to do with anyone else - legal claim) and photos of the alterations.

Do not expect any company selling non-compliant CA Smog blowers to tell you such alteration steps. Doing so is illegal. Get it?

[massacre]

I really hope he offers the pipe kit and intercooler seperately.
That way folks can use a procharger instead (which I think has the better mounting hardware)

OMFG I have always loved the Procharger so much more than Vortech!
:beer:

[Lowndex]

OMFG I have always loved the Procharger so much more than Vortech!
:beer:

Does anyone sell a Procharger sc with a Carb # referencing the 2003-2004 Marauder?

[eennte]

Will there be a difference in low end torque between the stages?

[Lowndex]

Will there be a difference in low end torque between the stages?

I do not have the technical knowledge to answer. Someone else?

If no, email Chris at ADTR and ask.

[rauder88]

The Stage 2 will NOT pass CA Smog if the smog inspector looks under the hood and sees the blow off valve. This scenario is possible as no super charger is allowed to vent the exhaust gases this way. Thus, Stage 2 and 3 are not specified to pass CA Smog.



That is not how a BOV works, a supercharger has nothing to do with exhaust. Even on a turbo the BOV in on the intake side. Just vents the boost when the throttle closes.

Not legal in CA because you are venting metered air which affects emissions. So you need a re-circulation valve or diverter to send that air in front of the supercharger.

[justbob]

That is not how a BOV works, a supercharger has nothing to do with exhaust. Even on a turbo the BOV in on the intake side. Just vents the boost when the throttle closes.



Not legal in CA because you are venting metered air which affects emissions. So you need a re-circulation valve or diverter to send that air in front of the supercharger.


Mine vents to atmosphere pre MAF at all times when not in boost. ANNOYING.


Builder Of Badassery

[Lowndex]

That is not how a BOV works, a supercharger has nothing to do with exhaust. Even on a turbo the BOV in on the intake side. Just vents the boost when the throttle closes.

Not legal in CA because you are venting metered air which affects emissions. So you need a re-circulation valve or diverter to send that air in front of the supercharger.

I edited the original thread and applied the words, "sees venting of metered air, which effects emissions and is illegal in CA". I welcome additional comment for technical accuracy.

[rauder88]

Mine vents to atmosphere pre MAF at all times when not in boost. ANNOYING.


Builder Of Badassery

I bet, that F1 is pushing a metric $*!* ton of air haha.
Never heard an F1 in person, but I bet that would get old.

[lifespeed]

Nothing beats putting the control on the driven (turbine) side using a turbo wastegate, applying only as much power to the compressor as needed for the boost required. Flat boost at whatever level you want. But that is academic at this point, as it is far more difficult to implement a turbo install.

An open blow off valve on a centrifugal is pumping crank horsepower out the valve, usually these devices are compressor surge protection in stick shift cars for when the throttle slams shut, not a boost regulation method. Boost control is (typically) pretty much pulley ratios.

Couldn't a centrifugal have a bypass valve route around the compressor into the engine intake in a manner similar to the eaton under vacuum? This could be downstream of the MAF without causing an air metering error, and would (mostly) unload the pulley. Of course, that is not a blow off valve but a bypass valve. Unless it was also made to open when the throttle slams shut, serving both purposes. Just thinking out loud.

[MOTOWN]

Nothing beats putting the control on the driven (turbine) side using a turbo wastegate, applying only as much power to the compressor as needed for the boost required. Flat boost at whatever level you want. But that is academic at this point, as it is far more difficult to implement a turbo install.

An open blow off valve on a centrifugal is pumping crank horsepower out the valve, usually these devices are compressor surge protection in stick shift cars for when the throttle slams shut, not a boost regulation method. Boost control is (typically) pretty much pulley ratios.

Couldn't a centrifugal have a bypass valve route around the compressor into the engine intake in a manner similar to the eaton under vacuum? This could be downstream of the MAF without causing an air metering error, and would (mostly) unload the pulley. Of course, that is not a blow off valve but a bypass valve. Unless it was also made to open when the throttle slams shut, serving both purposes. Just thinking out loud.

Sounds like a closed (recirculating) valve your thinking about , i have a Procharger Big red (open) valve its a love/hate relationship as i love it when it opens and that rush of air gets a gear heads attention and i get the thumbs up! i hate it when I'm leaving a light and its wide open making a ton of noise! i may put a wristband around it and see if it muffles the sound a bit.

[lifespeed]

Sounds like a closed (recirculating) valve your thinking about , i have a Procharger Big red (open) valve its a love/hate relationship as i love it when it opens and that rush of air gets a gear heads attention and i get the thumbs up! i hate it when I'm leaving a light and its wide open making a ton of noise! i may put a wristband around it and see if it muffles the sound a bit.

Isn't that what an Eaton install does, route metered air around the blower at the rear of the case at low throttle settings? Not lossless, but pretty close as the compressor is just free spinning.

[MOTOWN]

Isn't that what an Eaton install does, route metered air around the blower at the rear of the case at low throttle settings? Not lossless, but pretty close as the compressor is just free spinning.

Yes pretty much , open blowoff valves aren't for everyone , I'm back and forth on going to a closed valve , but i love that Spssssssshhhhh sound the open valve makes when you suddenly get out of the throttle!

[lifespeed]

Yes pretty much , open blowoff valves aren't for everyone , I'm back and forth on going to a closed valve , but i love that Spssssssshhhhh sound the open valve makes when you suddenly get out of the throttle!

Kind of like an Arrest Me Red paint job :)

[lifespeed]

Mine vents to atmosphere pre MAF at all times when not in boost. ANNOYING.


Builder Of Badassery

Couldn't it be plumbed as a bypass valve (compressor inlet to outlet) and serve both purposes? Avoid compressor surge when the throttle is closed relieving pressure out the air cleaner, and bypassing the compressor under vacuum for efficiency. Probably something I'm missing here . . .

[justbob]

Yes pretty much , open blowoff valves aren't for everyone , I'm back and forth on going to a closed valve , but i love that Spssssssshhhhh sound the open valve makes when you suddenly get out of the throttle!


Now try it with a stick! I'm definitely upgraded to two enclosed big reds and piping them into the fenders or something. Hopefully somewhat soon as I am BROKE!

I did pick up a shop vac filter to screw with and try to hush it the hell up for now..


Builder Of Badassery

[MOTOWN]

Now try it with a stick! I'm definitely upgraded to two enclosed big reds and piping them into the fenders or something. Hopefully somewhat soon as I am BROKE!

I did pick up a shop vac filter to screw with and try to hush it the hell up for now..


Builder Of Badassery

I figured you wouldn't like the noise of the big red , ill try a wristband first , if that doesn't cut it I'll probably go with an enclosed big red as well , the Procharger tech said the enclosed valve flows slightly less than the open version , but said i should be fine.

[Lowndex]

Couldn't it be plumbed as a bypass valve (compressor inlet to outlet) and serve both purposes? Avoid compressor surge when the throttle is closed relieving pressure out the air cleaner, and bypassing the compressor under vacuum for efficiency. Probably something I'm missing here . . .

It is going to take me a week of reading to understand half of what you said.:help:

[1Marauder]

CHRIS AT ADTR SAYS IT IS HERE MAY1st. Taking orders!