600 rwhp fuel system

[Filby'sMarauder]

I'm building a forged motor for my Marauder. I have a Trilogy twin screw and will be shooting for about 20 lbs of boost. I am looking to go return fuel system on E85. I need help building the fuel system. I know Zack posted his turbo car runs AEM 320's and was over 600 rwhp. I need help with the rest of the fuel system. Are there certain fuel rails that fit best? What can the stock rails support? I plan on -8 to the front and using the stock line for the return. Any and all help or advice is greatly appreciated. Any pics of said fuel rails and regulators ,mounted would also be appreciated.

Thanks
Brian

[Zack]

A Walbro 465 with -8, magnafuel mp-7010 filter, aeromotive regulator and aeromotive rails (for 96-98 Cobra) will do nicely

[Lowndex]

Might want to re-think the 465 recommendation:

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?855020-Walbro-465-LP-pump

[MOTOWN]

The oem fuel line is too small for a return line at the power level your looking to be in , run -8 feed , and return lines.

[Lowndex]

The oem fuel line is too small for a return line at the power level your looking to be in , run -8 feed , and return lines.

Does that mean all new fuel lines under the car? How can the stock fuel lines handle the pressure?

If I plan to run 500 + hp, does anyone sell the lines for someone to install (assumes cutting and forming are required by someone experienced)?

[MOTOWN]

Does that mean all new fuel lines under the car?

Yes , but its only two lines , do it right once , and be done with it.

[Lowndex]

Yes , but its only two lines , do it right once , and be done with it.

If I plan to run 500 + hp, does anyone sell the lines for someone to install (assumes cutting and forming are required by someone experienced)? What (specs) do I need to order?

[MOTOWN]

If I plan to run 500 + hp, does anyone sell the lines for someone to install (assumes cutting and forming are required by someone experienced)? What (specs) do I need to order?

All you need is -8 braided lines , and some stainless steel cushion clamps , you can route however you like , its flexible braided line easy peasy!

[Lowndex]

At 500-600 hp, with cost not being a concern, is this the correct Aeromotive fuel system?

http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/fuel-systems/ford-systems/96-98-12-4-6l-dohc-cobra-eliminator-fuel-system/

[MOTOWN]

But 500rwhp is fine on a returnless setup , unless you plan on going beyond from there.

[Lowndex]

All you need is -8 braided lines , and some stainless steel cushion clamps , you can route however you like , its flexible braided line easy peasy!

Cool.

Which one of these three, please?

1. http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/accessories-electronics/15703/12-an-06-stainless-steel-braided-line/

2. http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/accessories-electronics/15706/12-an-08-stainless-steel-braided-line/

3. http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/accessories-electronics/15709/12-an-10-stainless-steel-braided-line/

[MOTOWN]

At 500-600 hp, with cost not being a concern, is this the correct Aeromotive fuel system?

http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/fuel-systems/ford-systems/96-98-12-4-6l-dohc-cobra-eliminator-fuel-system/

No its not , cost and concern and 500-600 hp don't belong in the same sentence! your not going to reach that # on the cheap! as for your fuel system you build it , and order the right parts as you go.

[Lowndex]

No its not , cost and concern and 500-600 hp don't belong in the same sentence! your not going to reach that # on the cheap! as for your fuel system you build it , and order the right parts as you go.

Thank you for your patience, but I need fuel rails, pump, lines, etc.. So, why not the whole kit?
http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/fuel-systems/ford-systems/96-98-12-4-6l-dohc-cobra-eliminator-fuel-system/

[MOTOWN]

Cool.

Which one of these three, please?

1. http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/accessories-electronics/15703/12-an-06-stainless-steel-braided-line/

2. http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/accessories-electronics/15706/12-an-08-stainless-steel-braided-line/

3. http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/accessories-electronics/15709/12-an-10-stainless-steel-braided-line/

None of them! i have Jegs proflo -8 braided hose all over my car , not a single issue , and its a fraction of the cost of what you posted.

[MOTOWN]

Thank you for your patience, but I need fuel rails, pump, lines, etc.. So, why not the whole kit?
http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/fuel-systems/ford-systems/96-98-12-4-6l-dohc-cobra-eliminator-fuel-system/

The fuel rails are the wrong ones, the pump is external , and its configured for a MUSTANG , you have a big azz long Marauder.

[Lowndex]

None of them! i have Jegs proflo -8 braided hose all over my car , not a single issue , and its a fraction of the cost of what you posted.

Like this - http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/100924/10002/-1?parentProductId=

[MOTOWN]

Like this - http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/100924/10002/-1?parentProductId=

Yes.........

[Zack]

The stock feed line is plenty big for 600rwhp.

[MOTOWN]

The stock feed line is plenty big for 600rwhp.

My bad , misunderstood your post , your right

[Zack]

I have monitored the fuel prerssure when in boost on the dyno. If the feed line was undersized (as the return) pressure would be higher than commanded.

[MOTOWN]

I have monitored the fuel prerssure when in boost on the dyno. If the feed line was undersized (as the return) pressure would be higher than commanded.

Thats going to vary from build to build using the feed line as a return line in a high hp car can cause issues with drivability as i observed with a marauder on the dyno , its not going to work with every build.

[Zack]

Thats going to vary from build to build using the feed line as a return line in a high hp car can cause issues with drivability as i observed with a marauder on the dyno , its not going to work with every build.

600-650rwhp is probably the limit.
A -8 Feed and -6 return is good for 1500hp, so the 5/16" return is on point for 600-700ish by the math

[MOTOWN]

600-650rwhp is probably the limit.
A -8 Feed and -6 return is good for 1500hp, so the 5/16" return is on point for 600-700ish by the math

There is now way The oem feed line would work in a 700 hp car , tthe pumps suck the tank dry faster than that small line can ever return the fuel to the tank , theres a reason i have -8 feed and return lines on my car.

[Lowndex]

No matter, replacing all the fuel lines with -8 is relatively inexpensive and limits risk to the motor. I am spending serious money on this project. For the minor cost of new fuel lines, they are getting replaced.

[blkZooM]

Don't know if this has been mentioned but you are also going to have to modify your stock fuel hat for the return line and and bigger feed line.

[djs2000mgm]

There is now way The oem feed line would work in a 700 hp car , tthe pumps suck the tank dry faster than that small line can ever return the fuel to the tank , theres a reason i have -8 feed and return lines on my car.

So it overpressurizes the rails is what you're saying?

You'll limit your flow because of the increased backpressure, but unless you're overpressurizing your fuel system, it's not like you can empty the tank because your return line is undersized. Where would the fuel go?

[Zack]

The pumps can only suck the basket dry if the fuel level is below the basket.
Back in 09ish, I had my triple pump setup on the dyno with a -6 return and it still sucked the basket dry.
Size of return line has little to do with keeping the basket full.

[Filby'sMarauder]

I bought the rails, regulator, filter, and 2 Aem 320 pumps. I have a Racetronix bulkhead wiring harness for the pumps. I'm trying to figure out how to plumb the pumps in the tank. The Aeromotive regulator is set up for -10 feed, which I will reduce to the -8, and -6 return, so I have decided to go ahead and do that.

1) What Y do I need to use, inside the tank? I tried searching to find a Cobra y, with no luck.

2) Does anyone have any good pictures of the bulkhead fittings, or have recommended ones to use? Trying to get an idea of the best route to go here, whether to use a straight bulkhead fitting or one with a 90*.

3) Once the return is in the tank, do I just plumb it down into the basket beside the pumps or direct it away from the pumps?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Brian

[martyo]

No matter, replacing all the fuel lines with -8 is relatively inexpensive and limits risk to the motor. I am spending serious money on this project. For the minor cost of new fuel lines, they are getting replaced.

Who is doing your build and assembly of the car?

[Filby'sMarauder]

Deleted post

[martyo]

Deleted post

No, it was directed at Lowndex.

[Lowndex]

Who is doing your build and assembly of the car?

BRG Racing.

[justbob]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/25/505375346bbc7cb6336c38af3c4ff7 8f.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/25/1a3c75f77f68d71f63e86dcd829008 76.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/25/b2c959b29b150e1a4fadac68e41080 18.jpg

I ran the left side blue one as my pump 2, the stock feed as pump 1, and the other blue as my return strapped between the pumps terminating at the bottom of the pumps. My Y block is strapped to the frame (on the curved part by the muffler, a couple feet of -8 to get past the body mount, then filter bolted to the frame.

Y block
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/fra-900609-bl

Bulkheads
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/rus-661250
Nuts
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/rus-661890
Washers
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/ear-178009erl
Barbed adapters
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220711-b
Plus you'll need 2' of submersible 3/8" fuel line. I bought it at Carquest for around $32 a foot...

Also, a step bit (unibit) is your BEST friend when drilling the hat!

Builder Of Badassery

[martyo]

BRG Racing.

Have you posed any of the questions to them that you are asking us?

[Lowndex]

Have you posed any of the questions to them that you are asking us?

I use the forums to learn from experience and skill of the members. Think of it as 'doing my homework' before approaching my rngine builder. I am not trying become an expert; rather, informed to have more productive conversations with my engine builder.

[martyo]

I use the forums to learn from experience and skill of the members. Think of it as 'doing my homework' before approaching my rngine builder. I am not trying become an expert; rather, informed to have more productive conversations with my engine builder.

If they have mod motor experience they probably know the answers.

[Lowndex]

They certainly do. If I hired you to do work, I would still be asking all the same questions. Fate favors the prepared mind.

[MERCULES]

I have followed several threads about your build and it's great to learn and be involved but too much info can be a problem also.

You are gaining just enough knowledge to be a total pain in the ass to the builder, you either trust them or you don't.

Do you homework on the front end set your budget pick the shop and drop the car off.

When I am ready to boost the Marauder, I will drop it at Moe's with a note on the dash that says 500hp please when you can.

[MMBLUE]

I have followed several threads about your build and it's great to learn and be involved but too much info can be a problem also.

You are gaining just enough knowledge to be a total pain in the ass to the builder, you either trust them or you don't.

Do you homework on the front end set your budget pick the shop and drop the car off.

When I am ready to boost the Marauder, I will drop it at Moe's with a note on the dash that says 500hp please when you can.

^^^^^^^^^:bounce:^^^^^^ +1

[justbob]

Poor Filby has to weed through all this..


Builder Of Badassery

[martyo]

Poor Filby has to weed through all this..


Builder Of Badassery

Yep.

My apologies Mr. Filby.

[martyo]

When I am ready to boost the Marauder, I will drop it at Moe's with a note on the dash that says 500hp please when you can.

Bring it!

..

[CWright]

I'm kind of in the same boat by not knowing all the intricate details. Marty's shop has taught me tons of stuff over the past few years. I gained a little info out here but most of my knowledge came straight from Jeff at the shop. I totally trust them to build my car and I try to stay out of his way. Marty and Jeff have done a superb job keeping me in the loop on all that needed to be done and what has been done. I hope you end up with what goal your after. I never thought I'd be after a 700 RWHP car but that's what we are doing!


Sorry, Didn't mean to hijack thread on the fuel system!
JustBob hit the nail on the head above. ^^^

[merc]

Some things to consider:

The type of fuel line used. ( Gas fumes )
Internal or external pump ( External pump runs hotter )
Sump tank ( not needed if internal pumps are used )
Increasing the wire size on electrical components (pumps)
Injector size ( 60, 80, 120 etc )
Possible fuel cooler ( Fuel gets hot )
Filter placement and size
Fuel Pump Controller ( not always needed )
and deeper than expected pockets (Mo's Money Mo's Money)

[Lowndex]

I have followed several threads about your build and it's great to learn and be involved but too much info can be a problem also.

You are gaining just enough knowledge to be a total pain in the ass to the builder, you either trust them or you don't.

Do you homework on the front end set your budget pick the shop and drop the car off.

When I am ready to boost the Marauder, I will drop it at Moe's with a note on the dash that says 500hp please when you can.


I respect your input and agree if I brought every question I have poised here in the forums to my builder, he would have quite. I pose only key questions and do not double-check decisions KC makes. I appreciate the sound advice.

[Lowndex]

I'm kind of in the same boat by not knowing all the intricate details. Marty's shop has taught me tons of stuff over the past few years. I gained a little info out here but most of my knowledge came straight from Jeff at the shop. I totally trust them to build my car and I try to stay out of his way. Marty and Jeff have done a superb job keeping me in the loop on all that needed to be done and what has been done. I hope you end up with what goal your after. I never thought I'd be after a 700 RWHP car but that's what we are doing!


Sorry, Didn't mean to hijack thread on the fuel system!
JustBob hit the nail on the head above. ^^^

I do the same with BRG Racing.

[Lowndex]

Some things to consider:

The type of fuel line used. ( Gas fumes )
Internal or external pump ( External pump runs hotter )
Sump tank ( not needed if internal pumps are used )
Increasing the wire size on electrical components (pumps)
Injector size ( 60, 80, 120 etc )
Possible fuel cooler ( Fuel gets hot )
Filter placement and size
Fuel Pump Controller ( not always needed )
and deeper than expected pockets (Mo's Money Mo's Money)

Replace the old stainless fuel lines with increased diameter to handle the flow. PM Zach and he will share the proper size for both runs.

[merc]

Replace the old stainless fuel lines with increased diameter to handle the flow. PM Zach and he will share the proper size for both runs.

I don't understand the statement. Why would I PM Zach for the proper size? Also replacing the stainless lines is not what I was talking about. I was talking about Teflon inner liner vs non Teflon liner, something to consider, do you know the difference?

[Lowndex]

I don't understand the statement. Why would I PM Zach for the proper size? Also replacing the stainless lines is not what I was talking about. I was talking about Teflon inner liner vs non Teflon liner, something to consider, do you know the difference?

I am doing the same project as you are. I was sharing the stock fuel lines may not be able to handle the fuel needs of a 600 hp motor. After market braided lines will not last like stainless.

[merc]

I am doing the same project as you are. I was sharing the stock fuel lines may not be able to handle the fuel needs of a 600 hp motor. After market braided lines will not last like stainless.

There has been some talk of aluminum fuel lines and connectors on other forums. From my experience if you garage the car with non teflon lines you will smell gas. As far as one braided line vs another I am not sure about the durability. I used Russell 632090 - Russell ProFlex Stainless Steel Braided Hose on my build. If it doesn't last I will replace it, no big deal. One member on our site used dual factory lines and used a y block connector to join the two lines together. If you had the skills to fab and create then that would be an inexpensive route to take considering you could find most of the materials at a junk yard.

[martyo]

I like turtles!

[merc]

I like turtles!

I though you had a thing for dogs. :beer:

[Triple Threat]

I am doing the same project as you are. I was sharing the stock fuel lines may not be able to handle the fuel needs of a 600 hp motor. After market braided lines will not last like stainless.

I use Summit stainless steel braided hose in the 900 h.p. and 1800 h.p. Marauder's and never had to replace a line in 3 years.

[justbob]

I use Summit stainless steel braided hose in the 900 h.p. and 1800 h.p. Marauder's and never had to replace a line in 3 years.


I use Summit brand as well, the non PTFE, and I have no issues with fumes. At least with 93.


Builder Of Badassery

[Triple Threat]

I use Summit brand as well, the non PTFE, and I have no issues with fumes. At least with 93.


Builder Of Badassery

Mine is with C-16.

[Badass_forever]

I don't even know where to start, i just couldn't read all the reply's. was making my brain hurt. do you still need help with this or you have it all set? two 320's is over kill in a huge way.

[Filby'sMarauder]

I ran the left side blue one as my pump 2, the stock feed as pump 1, and the other blue as my return strapped between the pumps terminating at the bottom of the pumps. My Y block is strapped to the frame (on the curved part by the muffler, a couple feet of -8 to get past the body mount, then filter bolted to the frame.

Y block
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/fra-900609-bl

Bulkheads
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/rus-661250
Nuts
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/rus-661890
Washers
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/ear-178009erl
Barbed adapters
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220711-b
Plus you'll need 2' of submersible 3/8" fuel line. I bought it at Carquest for around $32 a foot...

Also, a step bit (unibit) is your BEST friend when drilling the hat!

Builder Of Badassery

I like what you did. I am gonna do the same, just make it my own.

Thanks for the help. I think I have it all worked out now.

Brian