What engine components to upgrade?

[Lowndex]

As I near the install date of my new 5.0L Stroker engine (https://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField= 22907), what key engine components I should upgrade, replace now? FYI - My 04 has 98,000 miles.
Examples: timing belt, water pump, oil cooling, pulleys and tensioners, etc. I have the money and want to get issues addressed now.

Engine re-build parts list (4/05/15):

Engine Components:
• MMR billet geared oil pump - http://www.modularmotorsportsracing.c om/prod_dohc.htm
• MMR "TraX Pack" Oil cooler System - http://www.modularmotorsportsracing.c om/prod_dohc.htm
• MMR front and rear head cooling mod - http://www.modularmotorsportsracing.c om/prod_dohc.htm
• MMR 4.6/5.4 DOHC Black Powder Coated Valve Covers w/Billet Hold down blue inserts - http://www.modularmotorsportsracing.c om/prod_dohc.htm
• Stewart Warner Stage water pump - http://www.stewartcomponents.com/ind...product_id=155
• Walbro 340 stealth fuel pump
• PowerBastards 220 amp alternator, powder coated black
• new stainless steel fuel lines run (1/4” diameter)
• new Idle Air Control Valve (IAC)
• new EGR valve
• new COT
• Gates tensioner pulley
• Gates idler pulley
• Gates serpentine belt
• Gates belt tensioner
• new Idle Air Control Valve (IAC)
• new EGR valve
• new COT

Supercharger (May):
• ADTR Vortech Stage 2 supercharger system, intake manifold, MAF air sensor, single stage Accufab throttle body

Suspension:
• Metco upper and lower control arms
• Metco Watts link
• Addco Sway Bar, Black, Steel, Front, 1 1/4
• Addco Sway Bar, Black, Steel, Rear, 1 in
• Moog tie rods
• Moog ball joints
• KYB-551602 Shock/Strut, Gas-a-Just, Monotube
• KYB-555603 Shock/Strut, Gas-a-Just, Monotube
• KYB-SM5392 Strut Mount, Steel, Front
• MOG-80668 Springs, Front Coil

[rauder88]

Timing chain should be ok, I've never seen one stretch. I would replace the guides and tensioners. Search ctrlraven, he has a thread with part numbers for all that. Replace the water pump. Shouldn't need an oil cooler, just another place for a leak. If the belt tensioner is bad, weak or making noise replace but it's an easy job so not a big deal.

[Lowndex]

Timing chain should be ok, I've never seen one stretch. I would replace the guides and tensioners. Search ctrlraven, he has a thread with part numbers for all that. Replace the water pump. Shouldn't need an oil cooler, just another place for a leak. If the belt tensioner is bad, weak or making noise replace but it's an easy job so not a big deal.

Thank you, sir.

[Lowndex]

Timing chain should be ok, I've never seen one stretch. I would replace the guides and tensioners. Search ctrlraven, he has a thread with part numbers for all that. Replace the water pump. Shouldn't need an oil cooler, just another place for a leak. If the belt tensioner is bad, weak or making noise replace but it's an easy job so not a big deal.

Which pulley should I buy?
http://www.summitracing.com/search/year/2004/make/mercury/model/marauder/department/engines-components/section/belts-pulleys?N=4294948137%2B4294949 814%2B4294943786%2B4294949512% 2B4294948911&SortBy=DisplayPrice&SortOrder=Desc

Which idler pulley?
http://www.summitracing.com/search/year/2004/make/mercury/model/marauder/department/engines-components/section/belts-pulleys/part-type/idler-pulleys?N=4294948137%2B4294949 814%2B4294943786%2B4294949512% 2B4294948911%2B4294925644&SortBy=DisplayPrice&SortOrder=Desc

Which belt tensioner?
http://www.summitracing.com/search/year/2004/make/mercury/model/marauder/department/engines-components/section/belts-pulleys/part-type/accessory-belt-tensioners?N=4294948137%2B4294 949814%2B4294943786%2B42949495 12%2B4294948911%2B4294925665&SortBy=DisplayPrice&SortOrder=Desc

[rauder88]

Tensioner if it were me I'd get a gates, from rock auto.
GATES Part # 38189
{#305291, 89291} DriveAlign Premium OE Automatic Belt Tensioner; Steel Smooth (76mm x 17mm x 30.5mm) / Hydraulic-No $25.79

Get your pulleys there too and any other OE equivalent replacement parts you need.

I think you're going sc, can't remember. If so don't get under drives. Depending on your goals you may want an overdrive crank pulley from innovators west, size is up to your boost goals.

[Lowndex]

Tensioner if it were me I'd get a gates, from rock auto.
GATES Part # 38189
{#305291, 89291} DriveAlign Premium OE Automatic Belt Tensioner; Steel Smooth (76mm x 17mm x 30.5mm) / Hydraulic-No $25.79

Get your pulleys there too and any other OE equivalent replacement parts you need.

I think you're going sc, can't remember. If so don't get under drives. Depending on your goals you may want an overdrive crank pulley from innovators west, size is up to your boost goals.

I cannot find the GATES Part # 38189
{#305291, 89291} DriveAlign Premium OE Automatic Belt Tensioner; Steel Smooth (76mm x 17mm x 30.5mm) / Hydraulic-No $25.79
https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1428218,parttype,103 46,a,Ad%2BCode%2Bwww.google.co m%2B

[Lowndex]

Tensioner if it were me I'd get a gates, from rock auto.
GATES Part # 38189
{#305291, 89291} DriveAlign Premium OE Automatic Belt Tensioner; Steel Smooth (76mm x 17mm x 30.5mm) / Hydraulic-No $25.79

Get your pulleys there too and any other OE equivalent replacement parts you need.

I think you're going sc, can't remember. If so don't get under drives. Depending on your goals you may want an overdrive crank pulley from innovators west, size is up to your boost goals.

Yes, I am going SC.

[rauder88]

https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1428218,parttype,116 59,a,Ad%2BCode%2Bwww.google.co m%2B

https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=393705&cc=1428218

It is under belt tensioner not pulley.

[rauder88]

Best option though for going with a centri, is to get a 3 bolt tensioner cover and get a thump rrr tensioner. Timing cover would be off a 96-98 cobra, mark viii and such. It is a much stronger set up for centri.

[merc]

Replace everything that moves, wears, or seals. You really don't want to replace a 100.00 dollar part with a 1000.00 dollars in labor. :beer:

[ctrlraven]

Are you installing a whole new motor or stroking/rebuilding your stock motor?

Like Merc said, replace whatever moves, wears or seals. Now some stuff will be able to be carried over without an issue while others will require a new seal or a new part should be used. Will you be installing the motor or will a shop? Doing anything with the heads?

This was a list I made for myself as I am having a built longblock installed. http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=91697
Some stuff will be carried over, other stuff will be replaced with new.

[345HP87SSAC]

I had to get a different flywheel as the mount on my stroker crank was different than stock. Not sure if this will be the case for you. just a FYI.

[ctrlraven]

I had to get a different flywheel as the mount on my stroker crank was different than stock. Not sure if this will be the case for you. just a FYI.
The stroker kit you got was a 8-bolt crank, the Marauder has an 6-bolt crank.

Good thing to mention and check on whether the new stroker kit comes with a 6 or 8-bolt crank.

[rauder88]

Marauder has a 6 bolt crank. 8 bolt is forged, ours are cast.
I think maybe you got that switched around.

[ctrlraven]

Marauder has a 6 bolt crank. 8 bolt is forged, ours are cast.
I think maybe you got that switched around.
You're right, I was doing several things at once and got it mixed up.

[Lowndex]

Are you installing a whole new motor or stroking/rebuilding your stock motor?

Like Merc said, replace whatever moves, wears or seals. Now some stuff will be able to be carried over without an issue while others will require a new seal or a new part should be used. Will you be installing the motor or will a shop? Doing anything with the heads?

This was a list I made for myself as I am having a built longblock installed. http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=91697
Some stuff will be carried over, other stuff will be replaced with new.

Whole new motor (Ford Racing block to install - p/n: M-6009-A46X (https://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField= 22907)), Hughes performance transmission upgrade kit, ADTR Stage 2 Vortech blower, all new suspension components (Metco watts link, Metco upper and lower control arms, Moog tie rods, Addco front and rear sway bars, KYB shock and coils), new brake kits front and rear (TBD) and whatever engine components you guys recommend.

BRG Racing (Martinez, CA) is doing everything except the CnC head porting (Livernoise).

[chief455]

Whole new motor (Ford Racing block to install - p/n: M-6009-A46X), Hughes performance transmission, Vortech blower, all suspension components, new brake kits front and rear and whatever engine components you guys recommend.

BRG Racing (Martinez, CA) is doing everything except the CnC head porting (Livernoise).
I'd let them tell you what is needed.

[ctrlraven]

The best thing I can mention to get is an oil pump or just the gear from Triangle Speed Shop.http://www.trianglespeedshop.com/tsss-products/

[rauder88]

The best thing I can mention to get is an oil pump or just the gear from Triangle Speed Shop.http://www.trianglespeedshop.com/tsss-products/

Thanks for the heads up. I'll add that to my list

[Lowndex]

The best thing I can mention to get is an oil pump or just the gear from Triangle Speed Shop.http://www.trianglespeedshop.com/tsss-products/

Which do I buy, please? I am having a 5.0L Modular Stroker Shortblock (M-6009-A46X) (https://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField= 22907) ported by Livernoise with custom, forged heads, valves, lifters, etc..

Essentially, is there any harm buying #2?

1. 4Valve/HO – Intended for all 4Valve engines, 4.6 & 5.4
$ 485.30 MSRP

OR

2. 5.o Liter Coyote – 2011 and Newer 5.0 Liter Mustang Coyote engines
$ 518.57 MSRP

[ctrlraven]

Doing the 5.0 stroker will still be a 4 valve motor. The Coyote is a different block.

You want the #1 you listed. The harm with #2 is it won't work for you application.

[Lowndex]

What oil pan and cooling should I buy?

Oil pan - http://www.modularheadshop.com/EngineParts/OilSystem/Pans.aspx

Oil cooler - no idea (please suggest)

[ctrlraven]

Your going to re-use your stock oil pan.

Don't need an oil cooler.

[Lowndex]

Your going to re-use your stock oil pan.

Don't need an oil cooler.


Thank you.

[rauder88]

It's sorta confusing I guess. You need to buy your parts for a 4.6L 4v modular motor. You are changing your crank and pistons to make it a 5.0, with few exceptions such as headgaskets 4.6 4v parts are what you need. If your crank is forged you will need an 8-bolt flex plate.

Many members have done these builds, there are tons of threads for info. I have been scouring them for my build as well to reference part numbers and such, find proven combos, tips and tricks... Search really is your friend. Sometimes it is easier to google and find a thread here.

[babbage]

I'd suggest an EMP Stuart water pump (or a clone) and a Reische 170 tstat to help keep it cool.

tstat - http://www.lethalperformance.com/reische-performance-ford-4d-170-performance-thermostat.html

water pump - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/emp-ste50046s/overview/

There are also cheap knock offs on ebay of the EMP unit...

[RubberCtyRauder]

No offense but you have been told countless times you do not have a 5.0 coyote. It's a 4.6 stroked. Nothing more nothing less. You will end up buying wrong parts if you do not get it straight.

[fastblackmerc]

Which do I buy, please? I am having a 4.6L stroked to 5.0L by Livernoise with custom, forged heads, valves, lifters, etc..

Essentially, is there any harm buying #2?

1. 4Valve/HO – Intended for all 4Valve engines, 4.6 & 5.4
$ 485.30 MSRP

OR

2. 5.o Liter Coyote – 2011 and Newer 5.0 Liter Mustang Coyote engines
$ 518.57 MSRP

Fixed it for you.

Why would you not let whomever is building your motor get what they need? They should know what is best and what will work.

I can't imagine any shop in their right mind would let a customer buy parts assuming they would work.

[345HP87SSAC]

Yeah that sounds right. My crank is forged so it changed to 8 bolts. I forgot the way it was so I left it out of my post.

[Lowndex]

I'd suggest an EMP Stuart water pump (or a clone) and a Reische 170 tstat to help keep it cool.

tstat - http://www.lethalperformance.com/reische-performance-ford-4d-170-performance-thermostat.html


water pump - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/emp-ste50046s/overview/

There are also cheap knock offs on ebay of the EMP unit...

Thank you for the help.

[Lowndex]

No offense but you have been told countless times you do not have a 5.0 coyote. It's a 4.6 stroked. Nothing more nothing less. You will end up buying wrong parts if you do not get it straight.

I heard you the first time. This thread clearly states I am installing a 5.0L Stroker (https://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField= 22907).

[Lowndex]

Fixed it for you.

Why would you not let whomever is building your motor get what they need? They should know what is best and what will work.

I can't imagine any shop in their right mind would let a customer buy parts assuming they would work.

Very good point. I am seeking the vast experience of Marauder owners who have done what I am doing, lived the mistakes/trials/frustrations. To ignore said experience is ignorant.

I share recommendations with BRG Racing and let them make the final decision. To date, I purchased all the suspension parts ($2,000.00) with BRG Racing agreement said parts are the best fit for my baby.

I am line for the ADTR Stage 2 Vortech blower. I need all the missing engine components purchased by 4/07 - ready for installation.

Summary, the men here know the Marauder at an expert level.

[RubberCtyRauder]

It is better to say 4.6 stroker because that is what it is based off of, the 4.6.... Then why asking about a 5.0 coyote piece earlier in this thread? See your post # 20. You clearly ask if there was any problem buying #2 which is for 5.0 coyote. You better get it right or you will have a car that won't run, parts that don't fit , etc

[babbage]

How about a new set of COPS? Not sure how many miles are on your stockers...

MSD is better than OEM - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-82448
Also see here: http://www.modularheadshop.com/MSD-82448.aspx

Triple threat had a set of these that went to 7K on the dyno - no issue

[fastblackmerc]

It is better to say 4.6 stroker because that is what it is based off of, the 4.6....

+1.....

This is what you have.....

[Lowndex]

How about a new set of COPS? Not sure how many miles are on your stockers...

MSD is better than OEM - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-82448
Also see here: http://www.modularheadshop.com/MSD-82448.aspx

Triple threat had a set of these that went to 7K on the dyno - no issue

Ordered. Thank you.

[Lowndex]

It is better to say 4.6 stroker because that is what it is based off of, the 4.6.... Then why asking about a 5.0 coyote piece earlier in this thread? See your post # 20. You clearly ask if there was any problem buying #2 which is for 5.0 coyote. You better get it right or you will have a car that won't run, parts that don't fit , etc


First, I apologize for being 'short' with you. I had a *****y day at work yesterday and took it out on you.

I paid $5200 for the short block and many more $thousands for all the rest to make a 5.0L motor. I struggle referring to my new motor as less. In hind site, I may as well bought a true Coyote race engine. But that is hindsight.

My question in the thread stems from hearing I can use 96-98 Cobra parts. So in my ignorance, I was double-checking. This makes little sense to all with modest engine knowledge. I have very little auto knowledge. Just a need to go faster.

[RubberCtyRauder]

But it is still a 4.6 stroked 21 cubic inches..A 5.0 is different to auto people because a 5.0 refers to a 302 or a coyote which wouldn't work in the marauder anyway.I'm only trying to prevent you from buying mismatch stuff..The block externally is the same as the 4.6..not the 5.0 coyote...

I don't care how FORD markets it..as a 5.0 stroker..they did that to make sales..but in the small print it says based on the 4.6 L block. that's were it is from..the inside is machine larger inessence..A 5.0 coyote vortech does not fit a 4.6L stroker neither do heads, etc...

I wont bring it up anymore..If you misspend your money buying coyote parts..then so be it..that's why it in even more imperative to know the difference if you do not have the auto knowledge on the subject you are building.

[Marauderjack]

FYI.....when I was having my motor rebuilt I asked Steve about stroking it to 5.0 and he was against it saying I would not see any significant difference with my blower......spend money elsewhere......just saying!!:shake:

Is this true...after all it's less than 8% increase in displacement??:confused:

[merc]

FYI.....when I was having my motor rebuilt I asked Steve about stroking it to 5.0 L and he was against it saying I would not see any significant difference with my blower......spend money elsewhere......just saying!!:shake:

Is this true...after all it's less than 8% in crease in displacement??:confused:

I don't know how many stroker Marauders are still out their, but their numbers are insignificant. Building a fast Marauder is a dedication that most owners of Modified Marauder never understood. I have been around since the beginning (member 234 or something like that). I witnessed some of the greatest men in Marauder history. Some of them have moved on and others have found their way to Heavens gate. Take your time and learn your car before you find yourself wasting money and time. Remember this, you are now one of the few and the proud. 10 years later the Mercury land yacht is still turning heads. :D:banana:

[Lowndex]

Engine re-build parts list to date:

Engine Components (ordered 3/30/31):
• MMR billet geared oil pump - http://www.modularmotorsportsracing.c om/prod_dohc.htm
• MMR "TraX Pack" Oil cooler System - http://www.modularmotorsportsracing.c om/prod_dohc.htm
• MMR front and rear head cooling mod - http://www.modularmotorsportsracing.c om/prod_dohc.htm
• MMR 4.6/5.4 DOHC Black Powder Coated Valve Covers w/Billet Hold down blue inserts - http://www.modularmotorsportsracing.c om/prod_dohc.htm
• Stewart Warner Stage water pump - http://www.stewartcomponents.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=65&product_id=155
• Walbro 340 stealth fuel pump
• PowerBastards 220 amp alternator, powder coated black
• new stainless steel fuel lines run (1/4” diameter)
• new Idle Air Control Valve (IAC)
• new EGR valve
• new COT
• Gates tensioner pulley
• Gates idler pulley
• Gates serpentine belt
• Gates belt tensioner
• new Idle Air Control Valve (IAC)
• new EGR valve
• new COT

Supercharger (May):
• ADTR Vortech Stage 2 supercharger system, intake manifold, MAF air sensor, single stage Accufab throttle body

Suspension (all parts received):
• Metco upper and lower control arms
• Metco Watts link
• Addco Sway Bar, Black, Steel, Front, 1 1/4
• Addco Sway Bar, Black, Steel, Rear, 1 in
• Moog tie rods
• Moog ball joints
• KYB-551602 Shock/Strut, Gas-a-Just, Monotube
• KYB-555603 Shock/Strut, Gas-a-Just, Monotube
• KYB-SM5392 Strut Mount, Steel, Front
• MOG-80668 Springs, Front Coil

[Lowndex]

Many thanks to all who recommended parts to upgrade. I appreciate your time and patience. All the recommended gaskets were also ordered. Engine pictures to follow.

[MOTOWN]

FYI.....when I was having my motor rebuilt I asked Steve about stroking it to 5.0 L and he was against it saying I would not see any significant difference with my blower......spend money elsewhere......just saying!!:shake:

Is this true...after all it's less than 8% in crease in displacement??:confused:

This is 100% true! and a total waste of money , yeah it sounds cute , but a stock bore and stroke 4.6L is all that is needed to make good power , i have a stock bore , and stroke 4.6L , no ported heads , no cams , no aftermarket coils ,or any of that other over hyped B.S. yet its one of the most powerful builds on the board.

[rauder88]

This is 100% true! and a total waste of money , yeah it sounds cute , but a stock bore and stroke 4.6L is all that is needed to make good power , i have a stock bore , and stroke 4.6L , no ported heads , no cams , no aftermarket coils ,or any of that other over hyped B.S. yet its one of the most powerful builds on the board.

Yep this is the reason my Teksid build will stay a 4.6L

[Lowndex]

This is 100% true! and a total waste of money , yeah it sounds cute , but a stock bore and stroke 4.6L is all that is needed to make good power , i have a stock bore , and stroke 4.6L , no ported heads , no cams , no aftermarket coils ,or any of that other over hyped B.S. yet its one of the most powerful builds on the board.

Wow! 761 rwhp is 200 more than I am likely to have. And I will receive forged ported heads, cams, rods, etc.. Also, aftermarket coils and much more.

[Lowndex]

ADTR has recommended a single stage Accufab throttle body.

Is this the correct model?
http://www.americanmuscle.com/20coacthbopo.html

[rauder88]

ADTR has recommended a single stage Accufab throttle body.

Is this the correct model?
http://www.americanmuscle.com/20coacthbopo.html

If you are doing an eaton swap. Otherwise no, you don't need the plenum.

http://www.americanmuscle.com/accufab-9901cobra-0304mach1-tb.html
That should be it, mounted upside down. You need one for a 99-01 cobra or mach 1

[Lowndex]

If you are doing an eaton swap. Otherwise no, you don't need the plenum.

http://www.americanmuscle.com/accufab-9901cobra-0304mach1-tb.html
That should be it, mounted upside down. You need one for a 99-01 cobra or mach 1

ADTR uses Vortech superchargers.

[rauder88]

ADTR uses Vortech superchargers.

Ok so you would need to find one that fits a Mach 1.

[ctrlraven]

This is 100% true! and a total waste of money , yeah it sounds cute , but a stock bore and stroke 4.6L is all that is needed to make good power , i have a stock bore , and stroke 4.6L , no ported heads , no cams , no aftermarket coils ,or any of that other over hyped B.S. yet its one of the most powerful builds on the board.


Yep this is the reason my Teksid build will stay a 4.6L

Stroked is one thing but if you go Big Bore AND put some FI on top of it, it will respond very compared to stroking.

[Lowndex]

Ok so you would need to find one that fits a Mach 1.

Thank you.

How the hell do you know this? I am helpless without you guys. Not a problem for me; bad for all of you. :)

[justbob]

ADTR has recommended a single stage Accufab throttle body.

Is this the correct model?
http://www.americanmuscle.com/20coacthbopo.html


I just bought one for an 03-04 Cobra. No need to mount upside down and the IAC will work with the Marauder upper intake. Warning, surgery is required to make work...

Check post 60 of my latest build.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=95664


Builder Of Badassery

[na svt]

A larger throttle body will not add any power or performance when combined with centri or turbo and will also add nothing to an n/a combo.

[na svt]

When cammed properly a stroker offers substantial n/a power gains and also "off boost" power on centri and PD combos.

[Lowndex]

A larger throttle body will not add any power or performance when combined with centri or turbo and will also add nothing to an n/a combo.

I am guessing you meant to say, without anything done to take advantage of the increased airflow and lack of lag (plenum is full before throttle is applied), no gains will be obtained. If not, what did you mean? Big gains can be obtained without a throttle body? Yes, but not as many as with one.

What I have read (not know):
In a vehicle equipped with individual throttle bodies, the plenum if equipped, remains full of air whether the throttle is open or closed. Because of this pre-filled state, there is no wait when the throttle is opened, and air rushes directly into the engine, resulting in a crisp and responsive throttle. In some extensively modified, naturally aspirated engines, the plenum may be removed altogether, allowing room for tuned velocity stacks designed to compliment a specific power curve and make more useable power.

In high horsepower engines, individual throttle bodies also tend to flow air more efficiently, freeing up power and complimenting high lift cams or high levels of boost.

In a highly tuned engine, they can become severe bottle necks to airflow, and thus largely reduce power. Individual throttle bodies not only offer superior response, but they also reduce these restrictions, freeing up power through improved airflow, with little to no trade off other than cost and increased engine noise.

[na svt]

It is not false as I've installed both BBK and accufab TBs on stock and stock, stock cammed and strokers and in each case all dyno'd the same as with the stock TB. These engines only need 650-700cfm to reach max power and the stock TB provides that much. The only time I see gains is on big bore strokers and high RPM smaller cube engines.

High lift cams make little difference in the requirement (old school thinking), what matters is the duration.

The only time a stock TB becomes a severe constraint to power is on PD combos.

BTW, this not what I've read, rather what I've experienced. There are many mods that add no power and cost a lot but it's hard to discriminate between the two as the marketing materials out there say everything adds power. TBs are at the top of the "poor hp/dollar" list.

[Lowndex]

It is not false as I've installed both BBK and accufab TBs on stock and stock, stock cammed and strokers and in each case all dyno'd the same as with the stock TB. These engines only need 650-700cfm to reach max power and the stock TB provides that much. The only time I see gains is on big bore strokers and high RPM smaller cube engines.

High lift cams make little difference in the requirement (old school thinking), what matters is the duration.

The only time a stock TB becomes a severe constraint to power is on PD combos.

I respect your data. You obviously have real-world experience. My next question is from pure ignorance; not rhetorical.

Why does ADTR and other supercharger solutions/shop provide a single stage throttle bottle with their supercharger systems?

Examples:
1. http://www.americanmuscle.com/procharger-stage2-9901cobra.html
2. http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/page.php?id=30094
3.http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/page.php?id=30083

[RubberCtyRauder]

where does it show they include a single stage throttle body?

[na svt]

I respect your data. You obviously have real-world experience. My next question is from pure ignorance; not rhetorical.

Why does ADTR and other supercharger solutions/shop provide a single stage throttle bottle with their supercharger systems?

Examples:
1. http://www.americanmuscle.com/procharger-stage2-9901cobra.html
2. http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/page.php?id=30094
3.http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/page.php?id=30083

To make more money.

If the boost is set at 12psi with a stock TB it will be 12spi with a larger TB. I had a stock TB on a 730rwhp turbo Cobra, replaced it with a single blade accufab and the power did not change.

[justbob]

My F1 puts out 1,575 CFM. How would an Accufabb single blade not be a benefitting factor?


Builder Of Badassery

[Lowndex]

where does it show they include a single stage throttle body?

You can see it in each picture. To your point, there is nothing stating the throttle body is supplied. So, I guess it is possible each car owner bought their own. I find it odd, to say the least, Vortech would use pictures for their products that mislead people.

[RubberCtyRauder]

They look like factory equipped throttle bodies to me..they are oval as well. those kits are designed to be put on factory equipped cars with minimal parts switching, just adding the necessary components. A single blade is not necessary to get hp,etc..not saying it is bad either..just bob is proof to that..but he has 600-700 hp ..big difference from 400-500..I have 455 and can push the tune to over 470 with stock tb on 93

[na svt]

Save the $350.

[Lowndex]

At the very least, I will ask ADTR to explain the need for a throttle body.

Thank you for the information.

[Lowndex]

Here is the intake manifold Ford recommends for my short block - https://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField= 11478

I welcome feedback.

[RubberCtyRauder]

that's 3V..you need 4v and you cant use front mount throttle body

[Lowndex]

that's 3V..you need 4v and you cant use front mount throttle body

I am confused. Here is the short block I bought:
https://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField= 22907

Under Recommended Ford Racing Components, the two intake manifold choices are:
1. M-9424-P46 2V Power Improvement (PI) Intake Manifold
2. M-9424-463V 3V Performance Intake

[RubberCtyRauder]

Says it's a 2005 - 2010 mustang gt block,GT were 2v and 3v pending year. Marauders are 4v like Mach 1 and cobra

[RubberCtyRauder]

Although it says. 4v compatible , they don't list any 4v parts

[justbob]

I am confused. Here is the short block I bought:

https://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField= 22907



Under Recommended Ford Racing Components, the two intake manifold choices are:

1. M-9424-P46 2V Power Improvement (PI) Intake Manifold

2. M-9424-463V 3V Performance Intake


You bought a short block that can accept 2V, 3V, or 4V heads. The intake you are looking at only fits 3V heads.


Builder Of Badassery

[Lowndex]

Although it says. 4v compatible , they don't list any 4v parts

Okay, if you were seeking a replacement, high performance intake manifold, please share your top two picks (url are helpful).

[RubberCtyRauder]

I don't have a clue. Most everyone has marauder intake . Motown has a custom hogan one. The intake I don't believe is any issue for anyone. And there are 500 to 750 Rwhp marauders on this site with marauder intake. You will need a driver side intake for the vortech to fit up

[Triple Threat]

I am using a stock marauder intake with spacer and a Accufab 03 mach 1 throttle body.Dyno tests l.y. showed a 20 rwhp increase at w.o.t. only with that t/b.At present I have 690 rwhp.Next week on dyno I am looking for 750 to 800 rwhp with the same setup.

[RubberCtyRauder]

I have a low mileage ( under 10k mikes) marauder intake /elbow if you are looking for a clean one. It came with my car since trilogy requires different set jp

[Lowndex]

Do intake manifolds wear (mileage association)?

If yes, I wish to buy yours, please.

[RubberCtyRauder]

I would say no to wear, you're in CA so it prolly stills looks great. The only thing I can think of is if the inside is fouled up with massive carbon/ oil deposits . While it is apart you can prolly clean it and have it powder coated on the outside

[Lowndex]

How much $ do you want for your unit, please?

[RubberCtyRauder]

I'll send a pm when I have a price. Prolly tomorrow

[fastblackmerc]

Okay, if you were seeking a replacement, high performance intake manifold, please share your top two picks (url are helpful).

The stock intake was designed by Roush. Per Steve Babcock (the father of the Marauder) it's the best flowing intake Ford has.

[Lowndex]

The stock intake was designed by Roush. Per Steve Babcock (the father of the Marauder) it's the best flowing intake Ford has.

Then I do not need anything else. I may buy a low mileage unit and have it polished. Thank you setting me straight.

[Lowndex]

But it is still a 4.6 stroked 21 cubic inches..A 5.0 is different to auto people because a 5.0 refers to a 302 or a coyote which wouldn't work in the marauder anyway.I'm only trying to prevent you from buying mismatch stuff..The block externally is the same as the 4.6..not the 5.0 coyote...

I don't care how FORD markets it..as a 5.0 stroker..they did that to make sales..but in the small print it says based on the 4.6 L block. that's were it is from..the inside is machine larger inessence..A 5.0 coyote vortech does not fit a 4.6L stroker neither do heads, etc...

I wont bring it up anymore..If you misspend your money buying coyote parts..then so be it..that's why it in even more imperative to know the difference if you do not have the auto knowledge on the subject you are building.


Between you and all the experienced owners here, I am confident I will be receive advice on the correct parts to buy.

Examples of sound advice to date:

4v for intake manifold
You don't need a new intake manifold - the stock one is great
You don't need a new oil pan
You don't need a better radiator
Be careful buying high amp alternators, they squeak easier
The TCE Plus 1 and 2 kit rotors poorly dissipate heat - buy something else
Key engine parts to change during the motor rebuild - better not to wait
You do not need a throttle body
Was that a serious question (guess who?) :)


and on and on. Inexperienced owners like me can be a serious drain on one's patience. But without your help, I may suffer ill decisions and frustration. If I could buy all who have helped me a drink to show my appreciation, I would. For now, thank you to all the senior experience owners for your help.

[MOTOWN]

Some of what you posted is not true at all , and to say Todds brake kit are no good is flat out foolish! His kits are the best you can buy , honestly you need to drop your car off at the speed shop of your choice , and don't go back until they call you to pick up your car.

[Lowndex]

Some of what you posted is not true at all , and to say Todds brake kit are no good is flat out foolish! His kits are the best you can buy , honestly you need to drop your car off at the speed shop of your choice , and don't go back until they call you to pick up your car.

Respectfully, there are many senior members who state the TCE rotors Todd sells cannot handle the heat dissipation needs of the Marauder. For Todd to tell me my driving habits are the problem is the same cap Reinhart slings about poor quality tunes, and much more, he sells. Rotors should not warp every few months, period.

[MOTOWN]

Respectfully, there are many senior members who state the TCE rotors Todd sells cannot handle the heat dissipation needs of the Marauder. For Todd to tell me my driving habits are the problem is the same cap Reinhart slings about poor quality tunes, and much more, he sells. Rotors should not warp every few months, period.

The bottom line is you have no clue as to what you are talking about , or how to put together a drive train combo , you need to stop asking a million and one stupid questions and educate yourself on what you need instead of going off of what somone else tells you , and what the hell is a senior member? Either you know what your talking about or you don't , this isn't highschool!

[Lowndex]

The bottom line is you have no clue as to what you are talking about , or how to put together a drive train combo , you need to stop asking a million and one stupid questions and educate yourself on what you need instead of going off of what somone else tells you , and what the hell is a senior member? Either you know what your talking about or you don't , this isn't highschool!

Motown, to date you have been helpful. You seem to accept I am inexperienced on automotive issues and specifics about the Marauder. This thread is insulting and completely counter to your past helpful threads. My position on TCE is not meant to be a personal slam against you. It is a slam on TCE, a position which many of the members share. You do not and that is cool.

As for me needing to do my homework, I thought that was what I was doing here - asking for help. I do not have the time to research all the issues facing me for my engine rebuild project. I thought it was okay to ask for advice.

If I write too many threads for your taste, ignore them. There is no need to be rude.

[fastblackmerc]

Respectfully, there are many senior members who state the TCE rotors Todd sells cannot handle the heat dissipation needs of the Marauder. For Todd to tell me my driving habits are the problem is the same cap Reinhart slings about poor quality tunes, and much more, he sells. Rotors should not warp every few months, period.

I've had the TCE kit on my MM for over 5 years and around 50K miles. No warping at all.

[Lowndex]

I've had the TCE kit on my MM for over 5 years and around 50K miles. No warping at all.

I envy you. Why do I and many others experience the warped rotor problems? The last sentence is not a challenge or meant disrespectful; just a source of frustration.

[MOTOWN]

Fact is im not being rude , you say an engine builder is handling your build ,which I find very hard to believe because no experienced competent builder is going to wait while you go out and make wild guesses on what you need , or dont need , your entire thread makes no sense , and if you did in fact have an engine builder he would get your build done without your interference.

[RubberCtyRauder]

Mine has the tce front which I bought it already installed and has over 10k miles on it and no warping here. and this car was down the track plenty of times before I bought it. I'm curious as to how you drive/brake in your area? do You two foot drive and brake, single foot? wait until the last moment to hit the brakes when coming to your destination, redlight ? coast and lightly press the pedal? just trying to figure it out.

[Lowndex]

Fact is im not being rude , you say an engine builder is handling your build ,which I find very hard to believe because no experienced competent builder is going to wait while you go out and make wild guesses on what you need , or dont need , your entire thread makes no sense , and if you did in fact have an engine builder he would get your build done without your interference.

Wow, now I am a liar! Do us both a favor and ignore all my future threads. I have no need for your input.

[MOTOWN]

Wow, now I am a liar! Do us both a favor and ignore all my future threads. I have no need for your input.

LMAO! Ok want me to tell you what oil to use , and how to clean your Maf , and Iac first?:rolleyes:

[Lowndex]

Thanks to RubberCityRauder for selling me a low mileage stick intake manifold. The unit is in great condition and much appreciated.

[Lowndex]

I've had the TCE kit on my MM for over 5 years and around 50K miles. No warping at all.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=96737&page=4
Post 53.

[MOTOWN]

Hey man not trying to be rude towards you at all , but the way you are going about your thread isnt going to get you where you want to be , again i apologize if i came across as being an azz , good luck with your build.

[justbob]

Your questions are a good learning experience for you and most of us will set you down the right path.

Its when you first started you just "told" us your direction and it didn't make any sense? Always glad to help however possible.


Builder Of Badassery

[babbage]

Between you and all the experienced owners here, I am confident I will be receive advice on the correct parts to buy.

Examples of sound advice to date:

4v for intake manifold
You don't need a new intake manifold - the stock one is great
You don't need a new oil pan
You don't need a better radiator
Be careful buying high amp alternators, they squeak easier
The TCE Plus 1 and 2 kit rotors poorly dissipate heat - buy something else
Key engine parts to change during the motor rebuild - better not to wait
You do not need a throttle body

never heard anyone complaining about high amp alternators "squeaking" more. I'm calling BS on that one.

If you need a good alternator - many including myself have gotten 100% new units from DB electrical.

I own the 160amp unit. No issue.
Link: http://www.dbelectrical.com/c-6140-high-output.aspx

[Lowndex]

never heard anyone complaining about high amp alternators "squeaking" more. I'm calling BS on that one.

If you need a good alternator - many including myself have gotten 100% new units from DB electrical.

I own the 160amp unit. No issue.
Link: http://www.dbelectrical.com/c-6140-high-output.aspx

Thank you for the recommendation.

[lifespeed]

never heard anyone complaining about high amp alternators "squeaking" more. I'm calling BS on that one.

If you need a good alternator - many including myself have gotten 100% new units from DB electrical.

I own the 160amp unit. No issue.
Link: http://www.dbelectrical.com/c-6140-high-output.aspx

The (smaller) solid pulley chirps the belt when the transmission shifts at high RPMs. Commonly understood issue, and the reason the Marauder has a clutched pulley.

[lifespeed]

Some of what you posted is not true at all , and to say Todds brake kit are no good is flat out foolish! His kits are the best you can buy , honestly you need to drop your car off at the speed shop of your choice , and don't go back until they call you to pick up your car.

Motown, you deliberately purchased the brand-new 1.25" thick rotor with Aero6 kit caliper specifically designed to address the aforementioned pad transfer problem on the TCE FNSL6R kits.

You don't have any experience with the problem kits/calipers/rotors. I have run one for years and it is a disaster from a maintenance perspective, and is why I am switching to the Aero6 caliper kit as well.

[MOTOWN]

Motown, you deliberately purchased the brand-new 1.25" thick rotor with Aero6 kit caliper specifically designed to address the aforementioned pad transfer problem on the TCE FNSL6R kits.

You don't have any experience with the problem kits/calipers/rotors. I have run one for years and it is a disaster from a maintenance perspective, and is why I am switching to the Aero6 caliper kit as well.

Thats where your wrong sir! i have installed , and driven the 14" , and 13" kits , and as far as i know only you , and 1 other member have had issues.

[lifespeed]

Thats where your wrong sir! i have installed , and driven the 14" , and 13" kits , and as far as i know only you , and 1 other member have had issues.

It is a lot more than me "and one other member". This is a well-known issue. Todd has received an earful of complaints. Those tiny pads burn up under the load of a 4200lb car. Just doesn't cut the mustard.

This is a glaringly obvious shortcoming and common sense. The more load and heat a pad sees, the more friction material area required to handle the heat and wear. Go look at the front brakes on a Porsche Panamera S, which is a 4200 lb car.

[MOTOWN]

It is a lot more than me "and one other member". This is a well-known issue. Todd has received an earful of complaints. Those tiny pads burn up under the load of a 4200lb car. Just doesn't cut the mustard.

This is a glaringly obvious shortcoming and common sense. The more load and heat a pad sees, the more friction material area required to handle the heat and wear. Go look at the front brakes on a Porsche Panamera S, which is a 4200 lb car.

Evidently you like his kits as well , Hell you just bought another kit! He must be doing something right eh?:banana:

[lifespeed]

He must be doing something right eh?

He is the only game in town. And he did respond to the problem by designing the larger-caliper kit which you and I purchased.

[Lowndex]

I spoke with Wilwood and they told me the weight of the Marauder far-and-away exceeds the heat transfer capabilities of the TCE FNSL6R kits. Thus, Wilwood did not have a rotor to recommend for use FNSL6R based kits. Wilwood said anyone with basic brake design knowledge would understand the flaw with such a design. I was encouraged to examine cars of similar weight to understand the rotor, pad and caliper combination (kit) required for safe braking (not performance).

Wilwood encouraged me to seek an alternative solution even if it meant hiring a brake expert to source the parts for me - compliment to Zach who has done just that. As I am unwilling to increase my 18" wheel size, I am seriously considering hiring Zach to source my next brake kits. I have not been able to get TCE to own their design flaw and create kits that could replace the current 13 and 14" models. Instead, they tell me driving habits are to blame. Right!

I never expected Todd to admit anything from a legal stance; just design a proper replacement that works for the Marauder. The Aero kit will not fit Marauder stock 17 wheels nor my 18" ones. So, here I and many more like me sit blocked. Not a good customer experience.

[MOTOWN]

He is the only game in town. And he did respond to the problem by designing the larger-caliper kit which you and I purchased.

Yuuuuuuuppppp! And i absolutely love this kit , only reason I didn't go with a 16" kit is because my 20" tappers down to 17.5" inner diameter of the wheel.

[lifespeed]

I spoke with Wilwood and they told me the weight of the Marauder far-and-away exceeds the heat transfer capabilities of the TCE FNSL6R kits. Thus, Wilwood did not have a rotor to recommend for use FNSL6R based kits. Wilwood said anyone with basic brake design knowledge would understand the flaw with such a design. I was encouraged to examine cars of similar weight to understand the rotor, pad and caliper combination (kit) required for safe braking (not performance).


I guess this is obvious enough given the clarity of hindsight and some expensive lessons. Like I said, check out the Porsche Panamera S front brakes next time you see one.

Zack's kit, while representing some hard work and ingenuity, still uses floating calipers, and those just aren't a performance solution. But they are cheap, easy and arguably better than stock, and there is something to be said for that. I don't know if they will provide the ultimate performance necessary to tame a 600 HP Marauder.

I am 95% sure the Aero6 caliper will fit inside a 18" Marauder wheel with a spacer (and wheel widening to put the offset back where it belongs). I know this isn't "easy", but it is doable and the results should be the best achievable given our choices. I just wish I was a bit further along in the process so I could provide measured fitment for the stock Marauder wheels. I am waiting on widening of a set of American Racing wheels before I can do the install.

[lifespeed]

Yuuuuuuuppppp! And i absolutely love this kit , only reason I didn't go with a 16" kit is because my 20" tappers down to 17.5" inner diameter of the wheel.

At some point that is just extra unsprung weight for no good reason. I suspect 15" will be more than enough.

[MOTOWN]

At some point that is just extra unsprung weight for no good reason. I suspect 15" will be more than enough.

I disagree, with a 20" wheel i wanted to fill the wheel completely with a big brake kit , on a 20" wheel a 14" kit wouldn't come close to achieving that , and not to mention my car has enough hp to push through average brakes with ease, and nothing looks worse than a big wheel with tiny undersized brakes.

[lifespeed]

I disagree, with a 20" wheel i wanted to fill the wheel completely with a big brake kit , on a 20" wheel a 14" kit wouldn't come close to achieving that , and not to mention my car has enough hp to push through average brakes with ease, and nothing looks worse than a big wheel with tiny undersized brakes.

Appearance is a different consideration. I was referring to the tradeoff between unsprung weight and how much rotor is enough to stop a 4200lb car.

[Lowndex]

I guess this is obvious enough given the clarity of hindsight and some expensive lessons. Like I said, check out the Porsche Panamera S front brakes next time you see one.

Zack's kit, while representing some hard work and ingenuity, still uses floating calipers, and those just aren't a performance solution. But they are cheap, easy and arguably better than stock, and there is something to be said for that. I don't know if they will provide the ultimate performance necessary to tame a 600 HP Marauder.

I am 95% sure the Aero6 caliper will fit inside a 18" Marauder wheel with a spacer (and wheel widening to put the offset back where it belongs). I know this isn't "easy", but it is doable and the results should be the best achievable given our choices. I just wish I was a bit further along in the process so I could provide measured fitment for the stock Marauder wheels. I am waiting on widening of a set of American Racing wheels before I can do the install.

After Todd telling me my driving habits are the reason I burn through rotors and pads, I am done with TCE. Not to mention $3700 for 14" fronts and 13" rears plus many sets of rotors and pads (rotors the biggest $ problem). Enough is enough!

[Lowndex]

Appearance is a different consideration. I was referring to the tradeoff between unsprung weight and how much rotor is enough to stop a 4200lb car.

Exactly why I have been burning through rotors; not my driving habits.

[MOTOWN]

Appearance is a different consideration. I was referring to the tradeoff between unsprung weight and how much rotor is enough to stop a 4200lb car.

If you want to split hairs on unsprung weight then why go with a heavier 20" wheel combo? :depress:

[Lowndex]

I disagree, with a 20" wheel i wanted to fill the wheel completely with a big brake kit , on a 20" wheel a 14" kit wouldn't come close to achieving that , and not to mention my car has enough hp to push through average brakes with ease, and nothing looks worse than a big wheel with tiny undersized brakes.

20" wheels and associated tires offer a superior handling experience but also a harsh ride compared to 18". I am too old to run over a pencil and feel it.

[MOTOWN]

20" wheels and associated tires offer a superior handling experience but also a harsh ride compared to 18". I am too old to run over a pencil and feel it.

Man seriously! Every time you post you spew misinformation! My 20" setup rides better than my 18" setup ever did! Any size wheel can give a harsh ride if you select the wrong tire.

[lifespeed]

After Todd telling me my driving habits are the reason I burn through rotors and pads, I am done with TCE. Not to mention $3700 for 14" fronts and 13" rears plus many sets of rotors and pads (rotors the biggest $ problem). Enough is enough!

I understand your frustration, I lived it just like you. But I also know the reality of getting big brakes installed on a car not supported by the aftermarket without designing the whole kit myself.

If I didn't think the Aero6 kit would solve the problem I would not have proceeded. Pretty soon here either Motown or I will have racked up enough miles to provide a definitive answer.

[Mr. Man]

Man seriously! Every time you post you spew misinformation! My 20" setup rides better than my 18" setup ever did! Any size wheel can give a harsh ride if you select the wrong tire.Aspect ratio has a lot to do with how the car rides. Rubber band tires can be very harsh on any size wheel if not properly considered with the rest of the suspension.

[MOTOWN]

Aspect ratio has a lot to do with how the car rides. Rubber band tires can be very harsh on any size wheel if not properly considered with the rest of the suspension.

Your absolutely correct! but who said anything about rubber band tires? people automatically assume when 20" tires are mentioned that they are low profile , which mines are not.

[stevengerard]

Interesting thread. I'm a very senior member but it doesn't mean I'm knowledgeable:D

After reading this thread I think you have gotten a lot of great advice. You are already down a path so stick to it but do it wisely. What I'd recommend to others new to modifying a car is think about what you want to do with the car. No dig to anyone as we all have our preferences. I am one of those who agree there is never too much tq/hp in a car but old enough (sane, mature whatever you want to call it) to know unless you have unlimited funds or do this for a living there are practical limits.

So I like Motown asked the Ford engineers at MM XI if it was worth changing cams or stroking the engine. They all said no unless it was the last two things I did to the engine to get the "LAST" 10% out of - to me, not worth it.

As for wheel size I would say if you are looking for a great handling car 20" rims are not the way to go. Very few great handling cars are made with that large of a rim size and if they are they came that way from the factory with suspensions tuned to that size.

You also keep saying for a high HP car you need great brakes. Again that is all relative. Our cars are heavy - velocity, weight and usage is what affects braking ability. Just because your car may have 500HP you won't necessarily need any more of a brake kit than any other MM unless you are constantly using that HP to go to excessive speeds. If I'm daily driving my car with 576HP and Billy Joe is doing the same with his 302hp MM then the only difference in our braking is type of road, road condition and style of braking, not my HP number. I have a larger size kit on my car and it is great, it definitely has had its occasional warping but not enough to bother me
Point is even if the car has 1000 HP if you never go above 60 mph you don't need huge rotors. Are you planning on road racing the car then maybe - lots of hard nraking. Mine work fine for that as well.

I guess my point is that these are big family sedans not Z06s. Its fun to make the most of these cars but one should be practical about it. If you want a incredible monster handling, braking fast 4 door think M3 M5, CTS-V. You want a great track car think 911, GTR or Vette.

I appreciate anyone doing whatever they can or want to do to these cars (or any car of their choice). I just take a practical approach to it, I'll never be able to make my 442 into a 8 second car without ruining the fun cruising attitude it has. I can't make my MM a 8 second sedan without it becoming less reliable, and I'd never be able to make my twin turbo hold 5 people.

[Lowndex]

Steven,

I appreciate your respectful response. It is easier to hear input when presented as you have done.

[chief455]

Steven,

I appreciate your respectful response. It is easier to hear input when presented as you have done.
And he raised the obvious point: brake application. Do you need racing brakes when you have a racing motor? yes - when you ARE racing.
I increased my power 33% and only upgraded to SS lines and better pads - because I drive thousands of street miles obeying posted speed limits - decelerating with downshifts, my brakes think the car is stock. When I do a quick blast, then quiclky slow it down, the brakes are enough to stop the car safely.
If I dedicated the car to 1/4 mile or autocross, I'd be looking at $4k+ worth of brakes.
I do want Zack's brakes to fill my stock wheel with rotor because it looks cool and won't break the bank ;)

[Triple Threat]

Both of the race cars have stock front marauder brakes on them.Back brakes are Wilwood on Moser rear that fit inside 15" rim.

[justbob]

Just like Shermins 10 sec. car! :)


Builder Of Badassery

[MOTOWN]

Race cars have plenty of time to stop at the track! On the streets you need to be able to stop in seconds , or before some clown pulls out in front of you at a snail's pace! Which never fails, im very happy with my brake kit , maybe ill have Todd do a matching kit for the rear!

[stevengerard]

Steven,

I appreciate your respectful response. It is easier to hear input when presented as you have done.

Thanks I try.... We all like our cars and different cars as well. We also have different approaches. I for one will most likely never have a trailer queen but believe me, I appreciate those cars when I see them - If I own a car it must me driven.

[stevengerard]

Race cars have plenty of time to stop at the track! On the streets you need to be able to stop in seconds , or before some clown pulls out in front of you at a snail's pace! Which never fails, im very happy with my brake kit , maybe ill have Todd do a matching kit for the rear!

And to be clear, my upgraded brake kit helps - to me its not my HP that necessitated the larger brakes its the land barge weight that makes be appreciate a better brake. Although, as others have stated, plenty of folks on here have standard brakes that are just fine. Just like a stock engine is more than enough for many folks.

[MOTOWN]

And to be clear, my upgraded brake kit helps - to me its not my HP that necessitated the larger brakes its the land barge weight that makes be appreciate a better brake. Although, as others have stated, plenty of folks on here have standard brakes that are just fine. Just like a stock engine is more than enough for many folks.

What exactly is your point:confused: you have brakes you like , and so do i , other folks don't drive my car , i do , and to say that stock brakes are fine on a high hp isn't something i agree with , i would venture to say i know my car better than you do eh?

[lifespeed]

Besides having only modest raw stopping power, I found the stock brakes would pad transfer after 10K miles causing pulsing. This varied with the pad compound used of course, I was running Hawk HPS and Command Automotive rotors. Once pad transfer happens braking power is dramatically reduced. To me this was an indication the stock brakes weren't quite up to the job, an opinion that is widely shared among Marauder owners.

Of course, the TCE FNSL6R kits are not an improvement to the pad transfer issue, hopefully the Aero6 are.

[stevengerard]

What exactly is your point:confused: you have brakes you like , and so do i , other folks don't drive my car , i do , and to say that stock brakes are fine on a high hp isn't something i agree with , i would venture to say i know my car better than you do eh?

Wow, Lighten up Frances! If you re-read my message I am agreeing with you. I stated "my upgraded kit helps" just like you said. Once a car of our weight gets going its difficult to stop just because of Inertia. I appreciate the upgraded benefits of larger brakes every day in casual driving not just when road racing just like you.

Its about application - some guys only use their HP on a straightaway, as long as it efficiently stops the car at the end of a 1/4 then they are probably ok with it. Actually for them the addition unsprung weight of a larger brake kit may not be worth the additional loss of acceleration for a bit of better deceleration after a 1/4 mile run.

That is my point - its driver preference and what you are trying to do with a car.

[MOTOWN]

LOL @frances! , i think ill go work on my land barge instead of talking about it , hell maybe even drive it!

[fastblackmerc]

Good info on "warped rotors"

http://stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths

[stevengerard]

By the way, you know the easiest (and cheapest) way to make your car go faster on a road course

Add HP?
Add better brakes?
Add better tires?

NOPE

Change the driver - and that includes me and my car.

Put a great driver in any car and you will see what a car can really do. Old saying in road racing, "its more fun to drive a slow car fast than a drive a fast car slow."

I've had trained police officers and professional race car drivers drive my car, its as much fun seeing what they can do in my car as me trying to match them.

[stevengerard]

LOL @frances! , i think ill go work on my land barge instead of talking about it , hell maybe even drive it!

And you even remember my reference, I'm getting old. Too many people don't recognize the good ones anymore - "exit stage left", "should have turned left in Albuquerque," "Pillows!? those aren't pillows!"

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