axles *again*

[lifespeed]

I've got the whining in the rear 30K miles after a complete rebuild (excepting the ring and pinion). I asked for Ford axles, but the axle shop said they were expensive and take too long to get. Guess he was thinking about his concerns rather than mine. When I contacted the rear end shop they stated that taxi cabs and town car drivers replace the axles every 30K - 60K and go through them like toilet paper. He said the mustangs aren't as much of a problem and believed it had to do with weight. I have done some towing with mine; a 1500lb tent trailer plus gear, did about 2500 miles round trip to Yellowstone last summer. Probably an extra 500 lbs on the rear axle. Which would be no big deal if the bearing/axle design weren't so bad.

So here I am with a whining rear end. The axle manufacturer name escapes me but they have a decal of a boot and something about "our axles kick A**".

But in the end I believe the 8.8 C-clip axle design is fundamentally flawed. I want to upgrade it with 9" housing ends and a proper tapered-roller bearing with preload that can withstand lateral forces as well as carry modest loads (towing). A pretty reasonable request of a bearing, I think.

I don't know how many Marauder owners have done this, but apparently it is common to do to Mustangs. Greek God had this done, but I don't think he included ABS rings. Also think it was on a 2000 panther.

[fastblackmerc]

Sounds like the axle(s) maybe bad.

Would be interesting to see what axles were installed.

I have the original axles (80K+miles) and Ford Racing 4.10's (65K+miles) with no noise whatsoever.

I have a carbon fiber disk set, 31-spline spider gears, 31-spline cross pin, F150 "S" spring and Moser 31-spline axles to be installed this summer.

[fastblackmerc]

Good article on how to beef-up a Ford 8.8 rear end:

http://www.markwilliams.com/beefup.aspx

Another 8.8 build:

http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/1312-ford-axle-builder-s-guide/

[lifespeed]

Sounds like the axle(s) maybe bad.

Would be interesting to see what axles were installed.

I have the original axles (80K+miles) and Ford Racing 4.10's (65K+miles) with no noise whatsoever.

I have a carbon fiber disk set, 31-spline spider gears, 31-spline cross pin, F150 "S" spring and Moser 31-spline axles to be installed this summer.

While I agree the replacement axles may not be the best, the fact remains that C-clip axles are a junk design. The first axle replacement was at 95K, but they had been making noise for 15K to 20K miles.

I read the Mark Williams article. 9" housing end conversion is routinely done to address this, the only question is if it can be implemented while maintaining ABS ring and sensor mounting as well as brake positioning.

I'm 90% sure I will do this upgrade if it is feasible. I remember back in the day doing a c-clip eliminator kit to my 1970 GTO with 12-bolt posi. The improvement in smoothness was very nice.

[Krytin]

It mat be the gears that are making the noise. The chances of getting a 95k mile set of gears set up to the same wear pattern w/new bearings is not impossible but not highly probable.
Once there is an established pattern on the gears (95K is), any change in the pattern will result in rapid wear and a howling noise from the center section.
Anytime one of my axle bearings went I first saw the oil leak at the hub then heard a grinding noise from the hub.

Good luck w/the upgrade!

[lifespeed]

It mat be the gears that are making the noise. The chances of getting a 95k mile set of gears set up to the same wear pattern w/new bearings is not impossible but not highly probable.
Once there is an established pattern on the gears (95K is), any change in the pattern will result in rapid wear and a howling noise from the center section.
Anytime one of my axle bearings went I first saw the oil leak at the hub then heard a grinding noise from the hub.

Good luck w/the upgrade!

Yes, R&P wear is a possibility but my bet is on the axles. I have an appointment with the local rear end shop, but I'm not sure it is money well spent to even pay for an inspection. I figure at this point I should just pull the whole axle assembly out of the car and ship it to Moser.

The C-clip axles are an Achilles heel, and coupled with the fact that I tow with the car sometimes I think it will forever haunt me if I don't put real axle bearings in it.

[JohnE]

The typical sure fire signs of bad axles are fluid leak at the shaft seals and clunking noise when you hit bumps on the road. To verify, jack the rear up. Lift the tires with your hand. Does it have excessive play?


I tried NAPA axles a while back on my 2000 Grand Marquis that I towed with. They were cheap made in India and lasted only 15,000 miles before seal issues developed from the material wearing away at the bearing race. I installed Ford OEM axles and never had an issue again. That car has 230,000 miles on it now, 90k on the last axles.

I bought a F-250 a few years ago, so my Panthers aren't getting the towing duties they used to. I do occasionally still use the Marauder for either the 5,000 lb ski boat or my 19' pop-up. Just not very often. F-250 has a much larger trunk.

To my knowledge, c-clip eliminators on c-clip axles are not rated for street daily use. I would also love to have a 9" rear. But I'm not quite interested in dropping the money needed with my car's age.


Good Luck

John

[Zack]

It sounds like the differential was not properly cleaned of debris the first time around.

To say the ford 8.8 is fundamentally flawed is just crazy talk

[JohnE]

Another idea to try for the howl is simply tighten the pinion nut a little bit. There's usually a little more give in the crush sleeve. Possible that this would resolve your issue.

I would still suggest to take the rear apart and inspect the surfaces for piece of mind.

[Badass_forever]

yeah, you have bigger problems, i have never, ever seen or herd about problems with axles outside of bending them or breaking them.

[rauder88]

yeah, you have bigger problems, i have never, ever seen or herd about problems with axles outside of bending them or breaking them.

It is a very common problem for the bearings to eat at the axles in the early build 03 300a Marauder. The axles were not manufactured correctly. My first Marauder it happened at 98k, this one 118k.

[RF Overlord]

yeah, you have bigger problems, i have never, ever seen or herd about problems with axles outside of bending them or breaking them.It's common in the Panther world.

[lifespeed]

To my knowledge, c-clip eliminators on c-clip axles are not rated for street daily use. I would also love to have a 9" rear. But I'm not quite interested in dropping the money needed with my car's age.

I am considering neither a C-clip eliminator kit, nor a whole 9" axle. I will install 9" housing ends with Timken tapered rolling bearings to eliminate the weak link of the axle/bearing interface.

[lifespeed]

It sounds like the differential was not properly cleaned of debris the first time around.

To say the ford 8.8 is fundamentally flawed is just crazy talk

The diff was cleaned when it was rebuilt, and ran silent for 30K miles. If it still had metal in it ,it would have been noticeable a lot earlier.

The 8.8 c-clip axle design is a well-known weak link, why else do you think so many Marauder and other panther owners are constantly changing them? It is a garbage axle/bearing design that is the cheapest way to do things and only survives a very modest life if not used heavily.

[lifespeed]

It is a very common problem for the bearings to eat at the axles in the early build 03 300a Marauder. The axles were not manufactured correctly. My first Marauder it happened at 98k, this one 118k.

And this is about the best you can expect out of the axle design. A few people get slightly longer life, probably with light use. Many see much shorter life.

[stevengerard]

I replaced my axles with Moser axles - they wore out as well.

[lifespeed]

I replaced my axles with Moser axles - they wore out as well.

It is not a long-wearing design, but a cheap one. The only long term solution is a good bearing, which means welding on 9" housing ends. Hopefully this goes off without a hitch. Going to jack up the car later today and check for play in the axles.

[lifespeed]

I can feel vertical play in the axles, more so on the drivers side. Gotta love this axle design.

[stevengerard]

axles and hubs are almost a yearly maintenance item for me. Axles on the MM every four years, at least one hub assembly on my Suburban every other year.

[lifespeed]

I've been looking into an axle upgrade. It looks like I may be able to retrofit 9" housing ends that accept Winters race car full-floating hubs and double-splined gun-drilled axles. The disc brake rotors are cheap and come in many sizes (I would probably use either 12-1/8 X 0.810" like the TCE kit or possibly 11-3/4 X 1.25". Stock parking brake drum backing plate would not work of course.

ABS tone rings would have to be fabricated and bolt to the 7" rotor mount bolt circle. So the ABS ring would be much larger than stock, although I don't see why this would be an issue. Tooth and gap spacing would be proportionally larger due to the increased diameter, but to the sensor it would like the same as long as tooth count remained the same. Larger diameter tone ring gets the sensor mount away from the axle tube which would not work with a larger 9" housing end, so this is probably the best solution except for custom-machining two new tone rings.

An added bonus could be cambering the rear wheels 0.2 or 0.3 degrees, although I'm not sure if this small amount would add to spline/hub wear long term. Should actually be quite a cornering improvement if it is practical and doesn't cause excessive wear.

Wavetrac or Torsen T2R might be likely candidates for the diff. Ford Racing clutched limited slip is nice, but the periodic replacement of clutches is a bummer. Would be nice not to have to dig into the rearend for a looooong time. With large floating-axle bearings and no clutches this should be a possibility.

I'm going to try and pick up a spare axle housing to modify so I don't down my car for a month or more.

[Zack]

Enjoy the road you travel....its gonna be costly

[lifespeed]

Enjoy the road you travel....its gonna be costly

Replacing axles, bearings and clutches (at a minimum) on an axle that was just rebuilt 30K miles ago isn't exactly cheap either. I don't like design flaws, and there is no other way to describe this c-clip axle setup. It appears to be the most popular complaint on mm.net.

[Zack]

Replacing axles, bearings and clutches (at a minimum) on an axle that was just rebuilt 30K miles ago isn't exactly cheap either. I don't like design flaws, and there is no other way to describe this c-clip axle setup. It appears to be the most popular complaint on mm.net.

I just had the bad axle problem myself with 158k on the car. 49 dollars later its fixed.
All you need is relocation wheel bearings.

[stevengerard]

I just had the bad axle problem myself with 158k on the car. 49 dollars later its fixed.
All you need is relocation wheel bearings.

Great catch - as long as you catch it early enough - they didn't work with mine:(

The good news is my "cheap" replacement axles have now lasted longer than the Moser's — 40k miles to their 30K

[lifespeed]

Yes, you can fix it relatively cheap. Sometimes. But in the end they require too much attention, don't last long enough, run the risk of running metal particles through the axle, etc. Then add in some light towing.

Anecdotes aside, this axle just isn't a long-wearing item and it has caused me enough grief to look for a permanent solution. I took my family camping up in the Sierras a few weeks a go pulling a 1500 lb trailer and some camping gear. Axles started howling halfway to our destination. Let me tell you I am not that interested in searching out a replacement offset bearing and patching it on the side of the road mid-trip 300 miles from home.

I want the #$%@! axle to work and last!

[lji372]

Local buddy has over 160k on his marauder and drives it year round. I asked him what work he's had done since he has owned it from day one. Other than normal maintainance, brakes, tires, oil changes etc. He said the drivers door switch twice, lcm before the recall (he turned in the receipt and received a refund), and recently had a used motor put in a couple months ago. Crappy axles still rolling. Luck of the draw I presume.......

[MOTOWN]

My OEM 28 splines went 107K with no problems whatsoever , now I'm on a set of 31 spline Mosers , with 4:10s , and an Auburn Pro series Diff.....smooth as Butta!

[lifespeed]

Oh, I guess I must have been mistaken. This C-clip axle design really is a good one. Don't know why all these dummies are rebuilding, replacing shafts and bearings, cleaning out metal particles.

[lifespeed]

I just had the bad axle problem myself with 158k on the car. 49 dollars later its fixed.
All you need is relocation wheel bearings.

I would not call that "fixed". To each their own.

[Comin' in Hot]

I had 178k on my first marauder when I sold it and now I know it has 225k on it. I know for a fact they are the original axles.

My trilogy was on its original axles up until the pinion bearing went at 127k and I put in a 31 spline rear from a low mileage cvpi.

I also has an 03 cvpi with 180k on it when I totaled it, it had original axles.

I had way more problems with R&P gears causing whines than anything.

[lifespeed]

I don't suppose this comes up all that often, but does anybody know what diameter the axle tubes are?