Bank 1 sensor 2 stuck lean...

[License2Bill]

Information about the car first
Marty O Tune
Full Catted SW exhaust system

Last month, after over 1000 miles of driving with the new tune, I plug the tuner in to check stuff out. I try to read the codes and I get a P1000-system not ready. I thought this was bizarre and plug in my Bluetooth diagnostic tool which shows that bank 1 sensor 2 is stuck lean or not reading.

Fast forward to today. I'm underneath the car pulling the old faulty sensor and I see that the exhaust shop that worked on the car last welded an extension on the header bung. I'm thinking that this could be the reason the sensor wasn't reading/stuck lean and why the system kept saying not ready.

Does that sound about right? I'm going to take it back tomorrow and tell them to fix it. They messed up my $1000+ headers and I have a ticket for expired emissions as a result of their hack job.

[Logizyme]

of coarse blame all your problems on the exhaust shop.

Sounds like none of that is their fault.

[Zack]

Information about the car first
Marty O Tune
Full Catted SW exhaust system

Last month, after over 1000 miles of driving with the new tune, I plug the tuner in to check stuff out. I try to read the codes and I get a P1000-system not ready. I thought this was bizarre and plug in my Bluetooth diagnostic tool which shows that bank 1 sensor 2 is stuck lean or not reading.

Fast forward to today. I'm underneath the car pulling the old faulty sensor and I see that the exhaust shop that worked on the car last welded an extension on the header bung. I'm thinking that this could be the reason the sensor wasn't reading/stuck lean and why the system kept saying not ready.

Does that sound about right? I'm going to take it back tomorrow and tell them to fix it. They messed up my $1000+ headers and I have a ticket for expired emissions as a result of their hack job.


of coarse blame all your problems on the exhaust shop.

Sounds like none of that is their fault.
STOP POSTING IF YOU DONT KNOW THE ANSWER


An oxygen sensor that is not in the path of exhaust gases will most definitely throw that code.
An extension is a NO-NO.

[License2Bill]

STOP POSTING IF YOU DONT KNOW THE ANSWER


An oxygen sensor that is not in the path of exhaust gases will most definitely throw that code.
An extension is a NO-NO.
Thanks. I'll be visiting them in the morning

[babbage]

had to do a search to see what an exhaust bung extension is:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm273/montgomb/O2extender.jpg

That is so full of fail - sensor needs to "sniff" gasses as they go by... No way it can work correctly as in above pic - lol

Strange part is that the SW kit comes with an O2 extension - but you shouldn't need it. Sucks that they WELDED it on there?? Hopefully you can have it unwelded without ruining your SW bung...

[martyo]

of coarse blame all your problems on the exhaust shop.

Sounds like none of that is their fault.

So then, what is the problem? :confused:

[martyo]

Information about the car first
Marty O Tune
Full Catted SW exhaust system

Last month, after over 1000 miles of driving with the new tune, I plug the tuner in to check stuff out. I try to read the codes and I get a P1000-system not ready. I thought this was bizarre and plug in my Bluetooth diagnostic tool which shows that bank 1 sensor 2 is stuck lean or not reading.

Fast forward to today. I'm underneath the car pulling the old faulty sensor and I see that the exhaust shop that worked on the car last welded an extension on the header bung. I'm thinking that this could be the reason the sensor wasn't reading/stuck lean and why the system kept saying not ready.

Does that sound about right? I'm going to take it back tomorrow and tell them to fix it. They messed up my $1000+ headers and I have a ticket for expired emissions as a result of their hack job.

I responded to your email. Send me a picture please.

[License2Bill]

I responded to your email. Send me a picture please.
Picture on its way

[martyo]

Picture on its way

Excellent.

...

[justbob]

http://youtu.be/-cDAqrywsHE

I wanna see too!!


Builder Of Badassery

[Logizyme]

STOP POSTING IF YOU DONT KNOW THE ANSWER


An oxygen sensor that is not in the path of exhaust gases will most definitely throw that code.
An extension is a NO-NO.

I read the OP as a rant, not a legitimate request for help, and I responded accordingly. But let me revise my response to the only question the OP had:
Does that sound about right?
Yes and no. The O2 extension is a potential cause of the stuck lean rear O2 code, but does not explain the P1000/lack of readiness monitor completion, which is more likely caused by a resent clear of DTC's/KAM or battery disconnect.

Honestly is sounds like we don't have the full story, and that the OP wants to rant and to place blame for his problems.

If I had the guess I would imagine the story goes a bit like this:
Customer goes into exhaust shop to get exhaust installed. Customer returns a week later frustrated with a P0420/P0430 code, and instead of telling the customer that their exhaust system has catalyst's that are not meeting the PCM's expectation, they try to fix the car for the customer and install O2 extensions, which is a repair that could work just fine, but also is a less than proper repair and may have side effects, like the stuck lean code, which hopefully they advised the customer of. Now customer realizes that he has a stuck lean code, and that its caused by the o2 extensions that the shop installed to try and fix a more serious emissions code, the P0420/430.

The exhaust shop did not just install o2 extensions for no reason, they installed them because the customer came in with a problem and they advised it as a possible repair.

If the exhaust shop did not advise the OP of what the O2 extensions would do, both as potential causes of DTC's and of a change in the exhaust system, then they have some responsibility for having added them. But they are not responsible for the P1000 or his expired emissions ticket.


So then, what is the problem? :confused:
He knows what his problems are:
P1000
DTC for stuck lean rear o2
headers completely destroyed
ticket for expired emissions
o2 extensions

[martyo]

I read the OP as a rant, not a legitimate request for help, and I responded accordingly. But let me revise my response to the only question the OP had:
Does that sound about right?
Yes and no. The O2 extension is a potential cause of the stuck lean rear O2 code, but does not explain the P1000/lack of readiness monitor completion, which is more likely caused by a resent clear of DTC's/KAM or battery disconnect.

Honestly is sounds like we don't have the full story, and that the OP wants to rant and to place blame for his problems.

If I had the guess I would imagine the story goes a bit like this:
Customer goes into exhaust shop to get exhaust installed. Customer returns a week later frustrated with a P0420/P0430 code, and instead of telling the customer that their exhaust system has catalyst's that are not meeting the PCM's expectation, they try to fix the car for the customer and install O2 extensions, which is a repair that could work just fine, but also is a less than proper repair and may have side effects, like the stuck lean code, which hopefully they advised the customer of. Now customer realizes that he has a stuck lean code, and that its caused by the o2 extensions that the shop installed to try and fix a more serious emissions code, the P0420/430.

The exhaust shop did not just install o2 extensions for no reason, they installed them because the customer came in with a problem and they advised it as a possible repair.

If the exhaust shop did not advise the OP of what the O2 extensions would do, both as potential causes of DTC's and of a change in the exhaust system, then they have some responsibility for having added them. But they are not responsible for the P1000 or his expired emissions ticket.


He knows what his problems are:
P1000
DTC for stuck lean rear o2
headers completely destroyed
ticket for expired emissions
o2 extensions

I have been messaging with the OP offline so I know more of what is going on.

I do not think this was just a random rant. I'll let Bill (the OP take it from here if he wants to).

[RF Overlord]

Let me get this straight: the customer had P0420/P0430, which is determined by the downstream O2s, so they welded bung extensions for the UPSTREAM sensors?

[Logizyme]

Let me get this straight: the customer had P0420/P0430, which is determined by the downstream O2s, so they welded bung extensions for the UPSTREAM sensors?

No, the extensions are put on the downstream O2s. The PCM compares O2 switching from the fronts which are more rapid, to the rears which is the catalyst is working properly will be slower and more generalized. By using exensions you move the o2 further from the exhaust stream, faking the slower and more generalized switching that the PCM is looking for, but if the O2 is too far from the exhaust stream the PCM will see the rear O2 not switching at all and think there is a problem with the O2, like this case, causing the stuck lean code.

[martyo]

No, the extensions are put on the downstream O2s. The PCM compares O2 switching from the fronts which are more rapid, to the rears which is the catalyst is working properly will be slower and more generalized. By using exensions you move the o2 further from the exhaust stream, faking the slower and more generalized switching that the PCM is looking for, but if the O2 is too far from the exhaust stream the PCM will see the rear O2 not switching at all and think there is a problem with the O2, like this case, causing the stuck lean code.

You are using the term extension in a different manner than the OP.

He means an extension on the 02 bung so that the factory style 02 sensor is not sitting as deep into the exhaust stream as it would on an unmodified SW header.

Here is the salient portion of his post that did not catch your attention:



Fast forward to today. I'm underneath the car pulling the old faulty sensor and I see that the exhaust shop that worked on the car last welded an extension on the header bung. I'm thinking that this could be the reason the sensor wasn't reading/stuck lean and why the system kept saying not ready.

[Logizyme]

You are using the term extension in a different manner than the OP.

He means an extension on the 02 bung so that the factory style 02 sensor is not sitting as deep into the exhaust stream as it would on an unmodified SW header.

Here is the salient portion of his post that did not catch your attention:

No, I am talking about the same thing he is. I am not talking about a wiring extension, I am talking about a tube that moves the sensor further from the exhaust stream as it used to be. They are pretty common on performance applications that still require emissions testing.

[License2Bill]

The only time I unplugged the battery in the last 2+ thousand miles of driving was today when I replaced the sensor in my driveway.

I did not have any dtc's before disconnecting the battery this afternoon. The Bluetooth adapter connects to the phone and obd and displays the graph of o2 sensor conditions over a given time. The front/first/forward sensors display a sine like wave. The rear on the opposite side of the one I replaced does as well. This one shows a flat line across the bottom of the graph indicating being stuck lean.

As you can see, there is an unnecessary steel bung welded onto the one on the header.
41595

[RF Overlord]

That's my whole point. The OP said the shop "welded an extension on the header bung." That sounds like the upstream O2, not the downstream.

[License2Bill]

This is the downstream sensor on the passenger side.

[Logizyme]

Alright, help us understand this.

You were replacing the B1S2 O2 sensor because when you watch its datalog it does not switch like the other O2 sensors and you had no DTC's or drivability concerns?

While replacing said sensor you found only one O2 extension?

Which O2 sensor position had the extension?

Hard to tell from your pic, but is the new bung just welded over the original bung or is it welded in another position and the previous one blocked?

[babbage]

This is the downstream sensor on the passenger side.


only reason they would do that is to hack catalyst efficiency. You must have told them something - no way they did that for no reason. You are better off replacing the front o2 sensors.

how old are the fronts, how many miles?

[Zack]

https://i.imgur.com/rmdSxh.jpg

[License2Bill]

The fronts were brand new with the header install. Less than 5 thousand miles. I did run the headers without a tune for a little bit. Rears were replaced after getting the tune at the end of March. All sensors are OEM Motorcraft

[babbage]

The fronts were brand new with the header install. Less than 5 thousand miles. I did run the headers without a tune for a little bit. Rears were replaced after getting the tune at the end of March. All sensors are OEM Motorcraft

Ok well that's good then as the front O2's are the important ones. I think that bung they added is causing the problem. It may be allowing water to fill up in that bung extension, after a while it will get hot enough to boil off, not good for the rear sensor.

Perhaps check the wires to passenger side rear O2, is it plugged in, cable perhaps shorting out? Not sure what it should read but perhaps put a probe on it and see if you are getting 12V.

Did you find out why they welded a bung extension on?

[justbob]

That small of an extension would not affect the rear o2's in a negative way. In fact, if they were left turned on and you had no cats, it would probably register the missing cats as doing a fine job.. I bet you have a pinched wire.


Builder Of Badassery

[Windsor58]

I have gotten a P2198 code from bad gas. When that happens, I add some STA-BIL fuel stabilizer to the gas and after a few miles the code doesn't come back (I clear the code using an Aeroforce guage). This seems to happen because where I live they only sell 10% ethanol blended gas, which sucks. If it sits for a few weeks, it will cough on hard accel and that goes away if I use the STA-BIL.
I don't know if this is causing your problem, but it would be cheap to find out if its the same as what I get.
Good Luck

[License2Bill]

Thanks for the input everyone. I decided to try my luck at emissions anyhow. The guy said the catalyst wasn't ready, but I still passed. Now I can take my time trying to sort everything out.