Clone

[djcoak]

This may be a touchy subject but I am going to tip toe into it anyway. Much like the Impala SS has clone cars I wonder if there would be anyway to make a Marauder Clone out of a regular GM. I realize that much stuff would be different but with the production ending this year some might not have much choice. Of course the engine would be smaller and such but the possibility is there to produce a decent machine with good looks and be able to do it in stages as one's budget allowed. After all making something better is all part of hot rodding anyway!!!

Dave :banana:

[BillyGman]

Hmmmmm, I'm not sure what you meant by "clone". I thought that you were talking about something like a close duplicate or a kit car, but I don't see any reason for doing that when people will still be able to purchase a Crown Vic, get a set of Marauder wheels to throw on, and stainless steel exhaust tips, and it would atleast LOOK like a Marauder except ofcourse for the grill being a little different. And I'm sure there are ways around that too.

[MAD-3R]

This may be a touchy subject but I am going to tip toe into it anyway. Much like the Impala SS has clone cars I wonder if there would be anyway to make a Marauder Clone out of a regular GM. I realize that much stuff would be different but with the production ending this year some might not have much choice. Of course the engine would be smaller and such but the possibility is there to produce a decent machine with good looks and be able to do it in stages as one's budget allowed. After all making something better is all part of hot rodding anyway!!!

Dave :banana:


Not really a touchy subject, just that the biffeances would be greater between a GM clone of a Marauder, and a Caprice clone of the Imp. You could get Caprises with the LT1.

[BillyGman]

that's a good point about the engine being the same LT1

[djcoak]

Thats EXACTLY what I am talking about. With the end of the Impala SS many people bought old caprice cop cars and made them look like the Impala SS. In many cases it actually turned out to be a better car than the original SS!

I am saying that to keep the Marauder tradition alive by hot rodding cars that are usually not hot rods. People light have to look to an alternative option to get a car like the Marauder.

Dave

[djcoak]

Thats true but a regular GM comes with a 4.6 right? That could still be modified. I am just looking at options in case I miss out on the Marauder and besides it might be fun taking a granny car and hopping it up!!!!

[MAD-3R]

Building a sleeper is always a fun thing to do.

[djcoak]

I KNOW! I knew a guy had a Plymouth Volare he got from his grandma. It was that ugly forest green and 4 doors. He pulled the engine a souped it up but it looked pretty much stock until he hit the gas and then WOW HE WAS GONE!

[2003 MIB]

I'm not touchy about a cloning project at all. I guess I find it flattering... I saw a listing on eBay for a Crown Vic interior that the guy was getting rid of because of his Vic/Marauder project. I hope he lands here and shows us what he's done. No two of our modified Marauders are exactly the same- we steal ideas from each other all the time. There could be things on a "clone" that might translate to any Panther platform car. In my best Field of Dreams- If you build it, they will clone.

[2003 MIB]

I KNOW! I knew a guy had a Plymouth Volare he got from his grandma. It was that ugly forest green and 4 doors. He pulled the engine a souped it up but it looked pretty much stock until he hit the gas and then WOW HE WAS GONE!

My 340-powered, demin-interiored AMC Gremlin made a lot of beer money on Mustangs, T/As and Z28s back in the day...

[djcoak]

So the 4.6 in the GM could be modified I guess? I wonder how many of the performance products for the Marauder would swap over. I like the idea for exactly the reasons stated above. It would be a unique, one of a kind car and although maybe not a collectors item it would be the car I can modify to make it exactly what I want.

[Bowman9]

Their is nothing wrong with building a look a like.
The difference between the Marquis and the Marauder is basically the motor.
Seeing the mustangs use pretty much the same motor as the Marquis performance parts should not be hard to find.
Superchargers are available for the Marquis and the Crown Vic if you had rather go that route. www.superchargersonline.com

If you decide to use a 2002 or earlier Marquis/Vic you will have a larger selection of (mustang) rims to choice from for your car.

You could also create your own "shaker" hood or make other changes to your liking, have fun with it.

[2003 MIB]

So the 4.6 in the GM could be modified I guess? I wonder how many of the performance products for the Marauder would swap over. I like the idea for exactly the reasons stated above. It would be a unique, one of a kind car and although maybe not a collectors item it would be the car I can modify to make it exactly what I want.

Now we have the beginnings of a project :up: ...The body part changes would be minimal (front and rear fascias). The grill might be a challenge. I think the wheels and tires bolt right up. There are a lot of 4.6 2V parts that fille most of the non 5.0 advertising space in MM&FF. I think I'd start with a CV Sport...It's do-able, DJ- have at it! :up:

[djcoak]

I have looked at the CV sport and it would be a fun car to play with, plus a tad cheaper. I guess if I had a Marauder I would be swapping parts like springs and struts and stuff anyway. I am still researching but I'll let ya all know what I decide on!!!!!

So Mustand Rims fit on GM/CV?

[RF Overlord]

So the 4.6 in the GM could be modified I guess? I wonder how many of the performance products for the Marauder would swap over.

Bear in mind that the 4.6 in a GM (also in a CV) is a SOHC, while the MM is a DOHC...although there are plenty of performance parts for the SOHC out there, most are designed for Fox bodies and trucks, therefore may not physically fit in a GM or a CV easily...

Also remember that the Panther chassis was changed for 2003, so MOST Marauder chassis and suspension parts will fit an '03 or '04 GM or CV, but a lot will not fit the '02 and earlier...

[2003 MIB]

I have looked at the CV sport and it would be a fun car to play with, plus a tad cheaper. I guess if I had a Marauder I would be swapping parts like springs and struts and stuff anyway. I am still researching but I'll let ya all know what I decide on!!!!!

So Mustand Rims fit on GM/CV?

They did on my 1996 PI but I wouldn't swear to the later models. You're welcome here even if you don't buy a Marauder...You're clone project idea intrigues me and I hope you'll keep us up to speed on the project.

[djcoak]

Thanx for the info so far guys! I would probably go with a new GM/CV just to make life easier, of course the good thing about the used ones is most are owned by an "more mature" crowd and probably are not beat into the ground.

[Paul T. Casey]

With the GM stock 4.6L SOHC motor, you'll find a plethera of parts out there, as it's the same as the Mustang motor. Where you from dj, as I got beat at the strip by a guy in a Volarie a few weeks ago. Real ugly mostly primered car with a 340 crate motor in it. As my younger buddies say, I was owned

[djcoak]

This was years ago and he was down in Delaware almost on the MD border. I am currently in NJ.

[RoyLPita]

I know on my '92 GM, Mustang wheels will need spacers to fit correctly. They will stick out on '03 and up models.

As for a sleeper, Find a CV or GM with the Handling and Performance package (HPP). It comes with ABS, traction control, a 3.27 open axle ratio (3.55 in 2000) compared to 2.73, unique front springs, front and rear shocks, steering gear, stabilizer bars, rear air suspension, and true dual exhaust. '02 and under models came with cross laced 16" aluminum wheels. To compliment the HPP, You could add the PI PCM. If the GM or CV comes with an analog dash cluster, you could upgrade to a PI cluster with 2mph increments up to 140. Some rare '01-'03 GMs with the HPP came w/5 passenger seating (later called the LSE).

Just my .02 for thought.

[djcoak]

hey I appreciate the input!!!! I am not sure which model I will go with but I am leaning toward the GM only since it is the origin of the marauder

[djcoak]

Most of the performance upgrades look like they would be easy enough to get, but what about the cool stuff like the gauges in the center and such????

[jgc61sr2002]

IMO it would be less costly to buy a Marauder that try and clone one. The Marauder only costs several K more than the GM. With the Marauder you get the best bang for the buck.

[Marauder]

IMO it would be less costly to buy a Marauder that try and clone one. The Marauder only costs several K more than the GM. With the Marauder you get the best bang for the buck.

He's right.....unless you already have an older GM that you want to hook up, your best bet is to just buy a Marauder. They are starting to hit the used car market and the price is going down. I got mine a year old for much cheaper than new!!!

What you could do is get your hands on a 98 Black GM and get 18" Cobra R rims. :D

[gdmjoe]

You mean like a faux Marauder .....

[djcoak]

Well its cheaper huh? Well lets look at cost for an instant. It seems many people here are hot rodding thier Marauders and I agree it is very cool, but to buy a 36,000 dollar car and then change things around is something I cannot bring myself to do.

For 18,000 I can have a base GM. Although it has a little different engine (SOHC as opposed to a DOHC among a few other things) the chassis and such are pretty much the same. That would leave me 18,000 dollars worth of mods to even get to a base price Marauder AND it would have all the performance options I want. If I add in the 10 to 15 K that some are adding to thier Marauders I would have a pretty wild machine. I am not slamming those that are modding thier cars but I am trying to look at it from a practical stand point. With the demise of production I personally would not want to Mod the car as it may be worth some money sometime in the future. BUT to Mod a regular GM, well who cares it only started off as a plain jane anyway.

PS If I find one cheap enough I would get it but I am kinda excited about the sleeper car. I have even thought of maybe a V-10........

[prchrman]

in my little town already saw somewhat you are talking about...CV sport with aftermarket wheels similiar to ours...our exhaust tips...MM rear spoiler...looked nice and get this, it was white (spoiler was painted white also)...willie

[Marauderman]

You mean like a faux Marauder .....
I was just gonna say --you gotta see gdmjoe's set up--I did in Raleigh and he had me fooled ---his Vic sure looked like an MM to me and he is well on his way to "clone" ville....connect up with this guy for sure--he has done a supper job I think..........Tom

[djcoak]

I figure for the money I could have a pretty hopped up car that would give alot of stock MM's a run for thier money. I am still toying with the idea and who knows but it sure would be fun to play with!!!

[gpfarrell]

I decided it was easier to buy a Maruader.

If you want to go the low-buck route, buy a used GM... its hard to find a 2 year old one that isn't in mint condition.

They're worth lots less, so you've got $ left to burn.

I'd stick with the handling package... that's got to save lots of work.

Then get Saleen's supercharger and figure out how to make it work. Hopefully, anything that will fit inside a Mustang engine bay will fit in a GM's.

I think I'd try to find MM wheels, but get whatever you like.

Car should be 10k, s/c another 5k... wheels & tires... $1500.

Now you're at $16,500... you've got a fun car, but you're approaching Marauder prices... and you don't have god of speed on your seat covers yet.

Entertaining, but I haven't regretted buying the real thing!

Greg

[djcoak]

I'd like to know where you are seeing Marauders for 16.500???? And forgive me if I am wrong a S/C GM would out run a Stock Marauder.

[TheDealer]

I'd like to know where you are seeing Marauders for 16.500???? And forgive me if I am wrong a S/C GM would out run a Stock Marauder.


A Marauder list for 36K but sells for 29K. a Gr Marquis sells for 18k for a GS. Let's not compare the list of a Marauder to the selling price of a Gr. marquis that list for 24k. I agree it would be cheaper to by a used Marauder for 18k than to modify one. Even if you bought a new 18k Gr. Marquis, to modify it properly to look like a Marauder would cost you 10k. Bucket seats, console, engine, wheels, and so on. Just my .02.

[djcoak]

No problem I appreciate all inputs but once again I want to see where you are finding these cheap cars!!!! I doubt it would cost 10 grand to make a GS look like a MM since I could care less at this point about the interior. My point isn't even mostly about cost. My point is I don't want to buy a MM and chop it up doing mods. I personally would leave it mostly stock. Thats just me though. The MM is a VERY nice car and I do love the way it looks and drives but there are very few used ones in NJ and those that are used are quite a few dollars.

Besides U see on here how you guys drive these beasts I don't know if I'd want it!!!!! :P :rock:

[TheDealer]

A stock unmolested car is always worth more than a modified car. At least that's the way it is with Muscle Cars of the 60's and 70's.

[HwyCruiser]

^^^^ Some of us are keeping the take-offs tucked away in a safe place... I even have original stat and plugs in a box somewhere since I can't seem to part with anything original off the MM.

Not that I'd ever imagine myself taking everything back to be put back the way it was, but at least it will be there for the next owner if (when) I go crazy.

:lol:

- JD

[jerrym3]

Last weekend, All American Ford/Chevy in Hackensack still had the used Marauder on the lot. Tinted windows, blacked out emblems front/rear.

According to their web site, Wayne L&M still has seven 2004s. Most are black, but one is red and one is silver.

[Marauder]

Well its cheaper huh? Well lets look at cost for an instant. It seems many people here are hot rodding thier Marauders and I agree it is very cool, but to buy a 36,000 dollar car and then change things around is something I cannot bring myself to do.

For 18,000 I can have a base GM. Although it has a little different engine (SOHC as opposed to a DOHC among a few other things) the chassis and such are pretty much the same. That would leave me 18,000 dollars worth of mods to even get to a base price Marauder AND it would have all the performance options I want. If I add in the 10 to 15 K that some are adding to thier Marauders I would have a pretty wild machine. I am not slamming those that are modding thier cars but I am trying to look at it from a practical stand point. With the demise of production I personally would not want to Mod the car as it may be worth some money sometime in the future. BUT to Mod a regular GM, well who cares it only started off as a plain jane anyway.

PS If I find one cheap enough I would get it but I am kinda excited about the sleeper car. I have even thought of maybe a V-10........

You could go with a used Marauder with little miles. I got mine for $22,000 and in all honesty, it still feels new....even smells new. :D

[TAF]

I'm just hopin 'Ol "dj" is just a troll...'cause I'd hate to think any of his "logic" is serious...:flamer:

[djcoak]

Nope I'm not a troll but whatever

[djcoak]

Who knows what I'll end up with I am just kicking ideas around. By the way TAF I am sure they thought Kenny Brown was nuts when he decided to modify his first Crown Vic/GM. See you seem like the kind of guy who just wants to accept what the factory hands you, not that it's a bad thing but heaven forbid someone come out with a different idea and want to go from there. If I find a used marauder in my price range I am sure I will jump on it but I am keeping other options open also. besides this is not all about the money but the fun of just doing something different.

[gpfarrell]

I'd like to know where you are seeing Marauders for 16.500???? And forgive me if I am wrong a S/C GM would out run a Stock Marauder.


DJ, Welcome to the forum... I know most of your 17 posts have been on this thread... we avoid misunderstandings and make much better time here when we all read carefully.

In my quick and dirty math, I said you'd have $16,500 into the GM and it would be "approaching" what you'd pay for a Marauder.

"Approaching" being the key word.

In the last 30 days, at least 6 MMs have auctioned for under $19,000.

The cheapest I could find was an 18,500 mile car that sold for $17,500. These were all cars in "poor" condition, and you'd have to be a dealer and eat some auction fees before you could park it in your driveway....

I don't think these prices are representative of what normal folks pay for nice cars... I paid substantially more for our used '03... but even these "poor" cars are still under warranty.

The S/C GM is a nifty idea... I'm not sure what they run... But a DR-Stage 1 is only a phone call (and under a grand) away. Suddenly the published 15.7 Car & Liar time is a cool-night 14.3. I'm thinking that would at least make the S/C GM race interesting.

Go build whatever you want. We're only trying to help you here, but please read carefully & don't twist our words... it really takes the fun out of helping people build cool cars.

Good luck to you,
Greg

[TAF]

See you seem like the kind of guy who just wants to accept what the factory hands you, not that it's a bad thing but heaven forbid someone come out with a different idea and want to go from there.
Yep...that's me. You hit the nail on the head Goober.

[djcoak]

OK Dealer I mis understood ya. I am used to the Monte Carlo board (the car I currently own) and getting slammed for anything that even borders on free thinking. I see what you are saying and I do appreciate the input from everyone. I guess at times I tend get a bit defensive but I usually play nice with others.
:beer:

I am just kicking around ideas. Like I said it's not even so much about the money but just to do something different. I like projects and from my growing list of them why not add another!!!!!

[djcoak]

Where is Wayne L and M at? Is it in NJ?

[MYSTA KANG]

Well man I say to each its own. Doing a clone can have advantages and disadvantages. In the back of your mind you will always know that it isnt what it appears to be. Then it may take even moe money to clone like one guy said than to just buy a good used MM. I see over 10 Impala SS clones everyday I drive around dallas. But hey you seem very eager to tackle this project so go for it man.

[MENINBLK]

hey I appreciate the input!!!! I am not sure which model I will go with but I am leaning toward the GM only since it is the origin of the marauder

GM is not the origin of the Marauder.
The Marauder originated from the CV.

In late 98, Ford was introducing a concept Sport CV as the BlackHawk.
It had all of the toys the Marauder has today, and had the leather interior as well.
The name was dropped and the project was moved to Mercury, because FORD wanted to breathe life into the Mercury name with new products.
The CV line is a very good seller for Ford and they did not want to confuse customers with another version of the CV.
If you noticed, the back of the Marauder is a CV, not a GM.

[djcoak]

Thanx for the support. It probably wouldn't even be a true "clone" since I would probably not put anything on it that said Maurader since it isn't really one.

[djcoak]

GM is not the origin of the Marauder.
The Marauder originated from the CV.

In late 98, Ford was introducing a concept Sport CV as the BlackHawk.
It had all of the toys the Marauder has today, and had the leather interior as well.
The name was dropped and the project was moved to Mercury, because FORD wanted to breathe life into the Mercury name with new products.
The CV line is a very good seller for Ford and they did not want to confuse customers with another version of the CV.
If you noticed, the back of the Marauder is a CV, not a GM. Ya know I thought Ford was looking into doing something like that with the CV in the late 90's but I never heard anything else about it. I never knew the Marauder even existed till a few weeks ago. Pretty cool.

Hey I just looked at the photos and you are right the back end of the Marauder and the CV are the same. Pretty cool. I am going to look into the CV as well as I think it might be a tad lighter than the GM

[jerrym3]

Yes, Wayne L&M is in Wayne, NJ. Check address/phone number though Fordvehicles.com ansd search through dealers using Wayne, NJ, as the location.

I got a quote of $27,135 on a $35,635 MSRP, but I use the A-Z plan for pricing.

[djcoak]

What is A-Z plan?

[merc406]

Clone it with a used cop car, then drop in an injected 427. :burnout: :rasta:

[jerrym3]

(Actually, Ford paperwork calls it the A-D plan.)

Present Ford employees, retired Ford employees, or families of deceased employees can obtain three PINs per year from Ford which can be given to anyone, not just family members.

With the A-D PIN, you go into the dealer, they verify that your PIN is valid and on record, and you are offered the plan price plus any applicable rebates.

The plan price is provided via Ford paperwork; there's no difference between vendors, assuming identical cars.

Here's examples (taken from Ford paperwork:

2003 new Ford TBird: List: $39,445; invoice $36,586; A-D plan price: $36,359 plus applicable discounts (non available).

2004 Marauder: List: $35,635; A-D plan: $31,635; additional discounts: $4,500; pay $27,135.

2003 CV LX Sport: List: $32,865; A-D plan: $29,187; price with discounts: $26,187.

May 2003 price: Leftover 2002 TBird: List: $39,445; A-D plan: $34,816; price with discounts: $30,816.

My deceased father-in-law was a retired Ford worker; I get the plan price through my mother-in-law. My brother-in-law is also a retired Ford employee. (I worked for Ford back in the 60's, but I left way too soon to even consider retiring from Ford.)

[djcoak]

I get the same deal on GM cars but I guess the prices you gave me for the Maurauder you got quoted don't do me a who lots of good

[Macon Marauder]

You can get pretty close to "plan prices" just by being a good negotiator. Members here have proven that time and time again. So - no need for a clone when you can have the real thing, eh?

[djcoak]

Once again I will say I plan to heavily mod this car and would not do it to a Marauder

[jerrym3]

While getting an A-D plan PIN for my daughter (she's buying a Volvo S-40), the Ford contact asked my wife if she wanted to take advantage of an additional $1,000 vouchure (my mother-in-law is actually the plan participant), and that an additional $1,000 vouchure would be awarded to my mother-in-law's "account" (for lack of a better word) soon.

In all the years that we've been using the A-D plan, I've never heard of gift vouchers. I'm sure my wife never mentioned what type of Ford vehicle was being purchased, so it can't be specific model related.

Any A-D plan participants out there ever hear of something like this before?

[RoyLPita]

"D" plan is also for dealers that are "Blue Oval Certified". The employees of those dealers get 2 PINs a year. BTW, Jaguar counts too.

[MENINBLK]

While getting an A-D plan PIN for my daughter (she's buying a Volvo S-40), the Ford contact asked my wife if she wanted to take advantage of an additional $1,000 vouchure (my mother-in-law is actually the plan participant), and that an additional $1,000 vouchure would be awarded to my mother-in-law's "account" (for lack of a better word) soon.

In all the years that we've been using the A-D plan, I've never heard of gift vouchers. I'm sure my wife never mentioned what type of Ford vehicle was being purchased, so it can't be specific model related.

Any A-D plan participants out there ever hear of something like this before?

I don't know if this is the same thing...

The LM Manager at my dealership offered this $1,000 voucher to us because my wife works in a doctor's office.
He said it was good for civil service and healthcare workers.
All she needed to produce to get it was a business card and a pay stub.
The $1,000 was applied directly to the balance of our 0% loan.

[jerrym3]

I always thought it was the A-Z plan, but on the Ford paperwork on my 03 TBird, it lists an "A-D" price and an "X" price, which is higher than the A-D.

My wife's or my daughter's employment was never an issue when they applied for the PIN.

I don't have any idea as to why they applied a $1,000 voucher, but the PIN we received was comprised of more digits than we've ever seen before. According to the Ford contact, that was due to the voucher being "attached" to that PIN.