Turbocharged Coyote/6R80 Swap, Build/Discussion Thread, Pics, info inside!

[96gt4.6]

I figured it's time to start the official build thread finally! Many of you here have participated in my discussion thread about the subject, located here:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=97655

As promised, I planned to start a dedicated build thread documenting the swap and turbo kit build/tuning process. Now that things are under way, it's time to start the appropriate thread regarding the matter.

Here is where it begins!

Disassembly of the stock Marauder has commenced. The history of the car has been well documented in the previous thread, so I won't elaborate on that. This process, starts with a perfect and very beautiful example of the Marauder model. End goals are to retain EVERYTHING fully functional, just as I did my turbocharged, chevy powered Vic.

Day 1:

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150712_150325_zps3cubtshz.jp g


The build for this car is as follows at the present time:

2012 F150 5.0L Coyote
6R80 trans from above donor
Turbocharged with air-to-air FMIC as I did on my Vic, via custom made turbo kit produced by myself, as with my other builds.
Tuned with HP Tuners by myself, as with other builds.
All fabrication/wiring completed by myself as with past builds.

I ordered the entire donor pullout, which should show in the coming days. I am starting removal of the stock engine/transmission this weekend. It was posted for sale in the appropriate section a while back here on mm.net, and currently has a buyer.

This project will happen in 2 phases. The first phase, I will get the setup in and running all stock, naturally aspirated. This will allow me to work out some of the integration bugs I anticipate, as well as get a solid foundation on tuning before proceeding (I have only tuned forced inducted LS setups prior).
If time permits this year, there will be dragstrip passes all stock. I have also ran the car as it sits now, all stock, which will give a good baseline on what the Coyote/6A improves over stock.

After that is completed, I will move on to the turbo kit fabrication and phase 2.

The process should really start to take off in the next two weeks once parts arrive, and I anticipate to have some test fit pictures by next weekend at this point.

Final drive video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4MlpJAVrjI

:burnout:

[cer0413]

Subscribed.

[Nightcrawler]

Can't wait to see more pictures! What power goals do you have in mind?

[96gt4.6]

I will only be happy if this combo can produce the same, if not more, than my turbo Chevy Crown Vic did. On 14psi/race gas, it was around 600 RWHP.

From what i'm finding with the Coyote, those numbers should be very possible. Seems the 5.0L is pretty legit on boost.

[marauderthis]

dammm dammm dammn.... I wish you went the LS route I just turned some techs on to your project I wanted to follow suit already located a nice LS motor. I guess I better start searching for a a nice Coyote and tranny.

Cant wait for the day when I say astalavista little 281.

[96gt4.6]

Haha, indeed. It literally happened at the last minute after a member here informed me of PBH's Coyote swap accessory brackets, in addition to me finding a full Coyote pullout will all the fixin's, on cheap to say the least.

There is an LS thread on my Vic over on crownvic.net, if you want to pursue that route as well :)

[Sully008]

Can't wait to see this project go forward. I don't have skills or know how to do this, so I'm living vicariously through yours. It will be very interesting to see how the car performs with the more modern drivetrain.

[ctrlraven]

The LS turbo would be a lot easier than the Coyote. Did you get the DBW throttle pedal?

[loud2004marquis]

Awesome, can't wait to see this!

[96gt4.6]

The LS turbo would be a lot easier than the Coyote. Did you get the DBW throttle pedal?

Idk about that.

I spent a lot of time weighing the conversion. Considering you have to make an alt bracket to lower the alternator on an LS (can't use a high-mount bracket as then you get in the way of the turbo placement), fabricate both the A/C and power steering lines (Coyote setup uses stock Marauder accessories in the stock location), and buy motor mount adapters, it's a pretty close tie.

Both require the same amount of fabrication from that point onward.

But, I cannot say for sure until I complete this installation, and compare it to my Vic LS swap.

On the pedal assembly, I believe I have found a solution (and it does not involve an F150/Mustang pedal, and retains the stock Marauder adjustable pedals). You see, the pedal is simply a potentiometer, it gets a ground, 5v reference and has a signal out circuit. The F150/Mustang used a 2 track potentiometer, whereas a 2005+ Grand Marquis uses a 3 track. My intentions are to install a 2005+ grand marquis adjustable pedal assembly, and make the appropriate wiring changes. More on that when I get there.

[justbob]

This will be fun!


Builder Of Badassery

[1stMerc]

Subscribing.....

[slickster]

:bows: you go sir

[marauderthis]

Didn't look for it but wasn't that particular conversion done with a manual tranny not a 6 speed auto?


Suggestion ---its fair to assume new components will have to be fabricated for the latest conversion with 6 speed auto
If its feasible please consider making some extra parts to sell to others who want the same setup.






Haha, indeed. It literally happened at the last minute after a member here informed me of PBH's Coyote swap accessory brackets, in addition to me finding a full Coyote pullout will all the fixin's, on cheap to say the least.

There is an LS thread on my Vic over on crownvic.net, if you want to pursue that route as well :)

[Turbov6Bryan]

If you are interested, i have a few mustang coyote intakes with t-bodies rails injectors

I bought a few take offs from a dealer swapping to blowers


My 2011 5.0 auto mustang is a blast to drive, that automatic trans is one of the best attributes of the car. Putting a coyote in the marauder is awesome man! Can't wait to see what it looks like in there...

[marauderthis]

PM sent


Turbov6Bryan;1456478]If you are interested, i have a few mustang coyote intakes with t-bodies rails injectors

I bought a few take offs from a dealer swapping to blowers


My 2011 5.0 auto mustang is a blast to drive, that automatic trans is one of the best attributes of the car. Putting a coyote in the marauder is awesome man! Can't wait to see what it looks like in there...[/QUOTE]

[justbob]

Didn't look for it but wasn't that particular conversion done with a manual tranny not a 6 speed auto?


No. I chose a Cobra short block and reworked my old heads.


Builder Of Badassery

[marauderthis]

The setup is with manual trans which is great but... the Mrs. will be driving it too so 6 speed auto tranny will be the deal

Cant wait to see 96gt4.6 (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/member.php?u=19436) pull the rabbit out of the hat




No. I chose a Cobra short block and reworked my old heads.


Builder Of Badassery

[Spectragod]

Sub'ing...

[96gt4.6]

Didn't look for it but wasn't that particular conversion done with a manual tranny not a 6 speed auto?


Suggestion ---its fair to assume new components will have to be fabricated for the latest conversion with 6 speed auto
If its feasible please consider making some extra parts to sell to others who want the same setup.

Actually it wasn't, I used a 4L80E auto on that setup. Stock vic column shifter/ect all worked with the GM stuff.

After it's complete, depending on my schedule, I might fab a few pieces for this swap, however, the main intent of this thread is for others to follow if they want to pursue this option. Due to not having much spare time, I try not to do much on the side as far as making parts.

Patient is prepped and ready for surgery. Got the cooling system drained and flushed out with water (prevents a mess with coolant when removing the motor):

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150714_202550_zpsojyugufg.jp g

I still feel really bad for taking such a beautiful running car apart......but I know that, in the end, it will be worth it:

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150714_202625_zpsgetvvolq.jp g

Due to my work schedule, weekdays usually don't produce much work. Friday evening, and Saturday morning there will be a big gaping hole where the stock motor used to reside.

[chief455]

Didn't look for it but wasn't that particular conversion done with a manual tranny not a 6 speed auto?


Suggestion ---its fair to assume new components will have to be fabricated for the latest conversion with 6 speed auto
If its feasible please consider making some extra parts to sell to others who want the same setup.
I read when you were in the LS decision phase, you offered to document fabbed items to make / sell to support future swaps.
I highly suggest doing this for the 5.0/6spd auto swap.
A blue oval, boostable power, modern = winning!
oops - I see you posted your response to this as I was typing...

[8UWITH6]

I still feel really bad for taking such a beautiful running car apart......but I know that, in the end, it will be worth it:


Stop feeling bad. Make it YOURS and how YOU want it!

[chief455]

Stop feeling bad. Make it YOURS and how YOU want it!
+20000
they aren't that rare. Easy to buy a 2003 black
what is rare will be the 5.0/6spd auto when you're done!
Pioneering the way to a better car, go fourth with ghusto :beer:

[marauderthis]

What??? I dont.
Just close your eyes and pretend an illegal invaded your engine compartment. If you can't do it i'll come over and rip it out by its little 281 throat.
You are doing it a big favor --- gut it no mercy.




I still feel really bad for taking such a beautiful running car apart......but I know that, in the end, it will be worth it:

[blkZooM]

Nice, can't wait to see this finish

[MercThunder]

I think I want to pay particular attention to this thread, since I have a line on a new complete Coyote available for under $6000, and comes with FoMoCo factory warranty for 2 years. Fitment and wiring were my main concerns. Hoping I can learn something useful, and help my decision. I originally wanted to go S/C, but since Trilogy isn't an option anymore, I need to look at other avenues.

[96gt4.6]

I think I want to pay particular attention to this thread, since I have a line on a new complete Coyote available for under $6000, and comes with FoMoCo factory warranty for 2 years. Fitment and wiring were my main concerns. Hoping I can learn something useful, and help my decision. I originally wanted to go S/C, but since Trilogy isn't an option anymore, I need to look at other avenues.

And, going this route will get you a considerably stronger motor, in stock form. These look pretty beefy on the bottom end, plus they have the piston oil cooling jets which is great for forced induction. This photo is from an F150 unit with some lower end issues:

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-07/20150713_163936_zpscnvvproe.jp g

[mad1stgen]

Glad to see you went in this direction. Once you start working on the new engine/electronics, you'll love how it makes the 4.6 look and feel dated. Lol.

The F150 5.0 is not that far different from the Mustang Coyote. Yes, the intake cams, pistons, and exhaust manifolds are different. The intake manifold is exactly the same from design standpoint, but it's cast from black instead of gray plastic. Save your money.

The oil pan is the same as well, but the mustang engine comes with a trick oil pan gasket with a built in crank scraper. So add that gasket to your shopping list.

PBH kit will require a newer mustang timing cover as well. There is also a corresponding oil filter adapter. The truck adapter has an option for the oil cooler, but it can be removed if space is an issue.

[96gt4.6]

^ Thanks for the info!

[cpe6]

When that coyote is in there, that may be a route for me. Always loved fords 5.0 motors since my 87 mustang gt

[BeeDamn]

Nice... I know it! that the time well come for a 5.0 swap with 6speed auto. Good luck sir

[96gt4.6]

Put in another 1.5 hr this evening.

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150715_193225_zpstqguwi77.jp g

Should be on the shop floor by Friday evening.

[WhatsUpDOHC]

I think that everyone is going to be subscribing to this thread.[emoji482] [emoji106]

[chief455]

I think that everyone is going to be subscribing to this thread.[emoji482] [emoji106]
yup.
I bet in 5 years, this will be equal to the Eaton swap sticky.

[Joe Walsh]

yup.
I bet in 5 years, this will be equal to the Eaton swap sticky.

And if you think about it.....the N/A 5.0 Coyote makes about the same RWHP as an Eaton blown 4.6....:eek:

[WhatsUpDOHC]

To boldly go where no man has gone before.

YES!

[345HP87SSAC]

Awesome. Keep it up.

[gdmjoe]

Joe Walsh - And if you think about it.....the N/A 5.0 Coyote makes about the same RWHP as an Eaton blown 4.6....:eek:
The 2011-2014 F-150s aren't as much as the Mustangs - 360HP / 380FtLb *87Unleaded | 375HP / 390FtLB *E85 (flywheel).

The 2015 gets a bump to 385HP / 387FtLb
.

[96gt4.6]

^ Correct.

From my understanding, this is due to an intake camshaft change, manifold v. shorty header, and different tune. (F150 v. Mustang)

My intentions are to boost the heck out of this workhorse motor. It's been my experience, with GM LS motors anyhow, that on boost there is little difference in power v. the higher end motors (LS1/6.0L/6.2). I've seen many a 4.8L GEN III put down over 800 RWHP in stock trim.

I'm hoping.......that by going back to Ford.....I will see similar results with the Coyote. From what I can see by guys that are running boost, they seem to throw down pretty good :).

[96gt4.6]

Time for a little tech info! If anyone has some suggestions or such, please chime in!

Here's my battle plan for the fuel system. The factory Marauder is ERFS (electronic returnless fuel system), as many here know. Pressure is changed by varying the pump speed based on demand.

The F150 Coyote computer is not. It's a fixed pressure with a high/low switch, which keeps the pressure static at around 53-58 psi.

My solution to this issue is, remove the stock Marauder fuel pump/sender, replace with a 2002 Grand Marquis hanger/sender (same fuel tank between the two), and install a Walbro 255 on the hanger (same pump as my Turbo Vic). This will change the pump/hanger back to a return style system with two outlets from the fuel tank. Run a Corvette fuel filter (has built in regulator that cuts pressure to 55 psi) mounted in the stock Marauder filter location, and the Vette filter will connect to the Marauder's push-connect style fuel supply line from there up to the engine bay.

I will be using braided AN hose from the tank to the filter, as with my other builds.

The only thin I'm uncertain on right now is the tuning side of that. The FRPP coyote power pack tuning wants a fixed fuel pressure at 55 psi, and as you can see in the screenshots of the tune on that link, I believe I've deciphered how they have done that. Wanting confirmation on the HPT forum. Here's the link:

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?52622-Converting-to-static-fuel-pressure-2012-F150-Coyote-5-0L

[Zack]

You need a conventional return style fuel system with an aftermarket regulator. Tune out the unnecessary fuel stuff in the pcm

[96gt4.6]

^ Which is what the 2002 Grand Marquis hanger/sender does, adds in the return. The Vette filter has a built in regulator, and can support in excess of 800 hp.

[Fastbob]

The Vette fuel filter must be for a C4 or C5 as I am pretty sure that my 2006 C6 doesn't have an easily replaceable fuel filter that is located outside the fuel tank(s). Just posting this so there is no confusion about the filter / regulator.

[lifespeed]

A typical return puts the regulator at the fuel rail, it sounds like you are putting the regulator/return by the tank.

The only issue I can think of is if the flow is high enough and the factory fuel line thin enough to cause a pressure drop with increasing flow, as the pressure is regulated at the input of a long fuel line. I guess if you use large enough fuel line frictional losses should be low and not cause an issue.

One minor detail I learned while building a fuel system is there is special electrically-conductive Teflon fuel line available so you don't build up static electricity from the flow of non-conductive fuel over Teflon. Kind of like rubbing a balloon on your hair.

[96gt4.6]

^ Yes, and I should have been more specific on that.....sorry guys!

The C5 uses a filter that combines both a fuel filter, and regulator in 1 compact housing. It's used widely on LS swaps, and comes in handy in this instance as well fortunately!

Speedway makes a kit that includes all the fittings to mate to -AN. If you buy the filter/fittings individually, they are rather expensive in comparison to this kit. Here is what I use on all my swaps:

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/LS1-Fuel-Filter-Fuel-Regulator-Kit,41791.html

That filter will support in excess of 800 flywheel HP, and was confirmed via a reliable source via this link, during my Malibu build:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/fueling-injection/1742762-stock-corvette-99-03-fuel-filter-flow-data.html

I think a lot of times, people over think fuel systems as far as diameter of feed lines/hose go, DEPENDING on their fuel. Obviously, alcohol/E85 will require more volume.

This filter is 3/8" Feed diameter on the outlet.

My old Vic, which was easily in excess of 550 RWHP, was using the stock '97 Crown Vic fuel lines, with only a Walbro 255 in-tank in place of the stock fuel pump. The stock line diameter at the engine bay was 5/16" feed, 1/4" return.....haha.

Now, on E85, it probably would have been close to tapped out at 6-7 psi give/take.

[96gt4.6]

A typical return puts the regulator at the fuel rail, it sounds like you are putting the regulator/return by the tank.

The only issue I can think of is if the flow is high enough and the factory fuel line thin enough to cause a pressure drop with increasing flow, as the pressure is regulated at the input of a long fuel line. I guess if you use large enough fuel line frictional losses should be low and not cause an issue.

One minor detail I learned while building a fuel system is there is special electrically-conductive Teflon fuel line available so you don't build up static electricity from the flow of non-conductive fuel over Teflon. Kind of like rubbing a balloon on your hair.

Correct sir, this system will reside entirely under the rear of the car, and the vette filter will mount where the stock Marauder filter was, and use the stock Marauder hardline from the filter forward.

That is most certainly reasonable no doudt! On my Turbo Vic, I just decided I was going to try it and run the stock 5/16" system from tank to under hood. I was shocked that it supported 14psi/race gas (123 mph trap speed on 4200 lbs race weight). No drop in AFR or fuel pressure during the run according to the logs.

No doudt though, I was at limits of the system i'm sure!

I tend to stick with O.E. as far as system design as much as possible. My reasoning on using this filter/regulator, for my previous Chevy swaps anyhow, was that if it's stock on a C5 Vette, and MANY people have pushed them past 6,7,800 RWHP, then the system/idea should be sound. So far, at least for me, it seems to work.

This will probably the the ONE that doesn't! haha

[mad1stgen]

Haha, this is too funny. I am using that very regulator on my coyote swap. This engine loves the steady 58psi. Single 465 Walbro in tank.
Super easy plumbing with the coyote fuel rail (which you can flip 180 deg if needed), but I opted out to mount it in the wheel well where the fuel filter was originally (Mark VIII).

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LXBHVCFnPuE/VYDIe2bfDXI/AAAAAAAAEck/exYqBaLyFcw/s1280-Ic42/20150610_142021.jpg

I have a teflon lined -6AN supply as the stock one was tiny at 5/16s. The return is stock though. I believe Marauder supply is 3/8s already ?

You don't want to use the blue fittings with the white locking clip. You want the ones that screw together. Look thru Russell stuff.

[96gt4.6]

Very nice!

Quick question. I won't be to my test fitting stage until next week, but am curious, how much larger or smallet are the dimensions for the 5.0 vs the 4.6 4v? The stock 4v is pretty close to the hvac box on this car, if the 5.0 is much wider this will get interesting.....

[Bad_S55]

Take a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfeHi_iHL-g
Although it's crude & unfinished, this is the first Coyote in a Panther. You can get a look of how it looks in the bay. I don't remember the dimensions of the engine itself, but they're given in every Ford Racing catalog.

[96gt4.6]

Awesome! The heater box clearance looks good, actually a little more room than the outgoing 4.6 DOHC. I'm still gunning for the world's first 6r80 equipped Coyote Marauder....better get my butt in gear!

[mad1stgen]

Yeah, it's tough to explain the size differences. It is definitely wider, by at least an inch or so, but at the same time, the valve covers are shaped different, so it appears not as tall. The timing cover is thicker, and that's why the oil pan is longer.

[96gt4.6]

Sweet. I'm hoping to have the 4.6 out tomorrow and test fitting the 5.0L. I know that it is going to be VERY close by the heater box. The 4.6 is within maybe 1/4".....so we'll see what happens when we get there.

I found this chart on the engine size, and a lot of this depends on where the measurements were taken, but it should be less than an inch total difference. I'm hoping, that valve cover contour is a little lower on the 5.0, which will net some clearance to the HVAC box:

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/Coyote%20Dimensions_zpsyaeve6d m.jpg

Any suggestions on the exhaust? Going to try and use the truck mani's, if they will clear the frame rails. They seem to tuck pretty tightly to the motor, not sure how much tighter a set of Mustang shorties would sit if I have to go that route.

[mad1stgen]

Any suggestions on the exhaust? Going to try and use the truck mani's, if they will clear the frame rails. They seem to tuck pretty tightly to the motor, not sure how much tighter a set of Mustang shorties would sit if I have to go that route.

The stock mustang headers are pretty much the width of the engine as they pass just below the valve covers.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-G0l_jW2y2oM/VYDBBEsT6rI/AAAAAAAAENg/9__nhMBLkG0/s720-Ic42/20150513_142023.jpg https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XizzFeagaEw/VYDA-eEFBAI/AAAAAAAAENY/A4KF_42m0lg/s720-Ic42/20150513_142012.jpg

I had to modify the driver's side to go around the steering shaft, but you might be ok with how the shaft goes thru in the marauder bay.

Truck manifolds are heavy, and bulky. I doubt you will gain any room from them.

[96gt4.6]

Thanks for the pics. I'll get the engine test fitted this weekend hopefully, unless the stock Coyote oil pan doesn't clear. Reading the YouTube comments from the Vic link, he said the stock Coyote oil pan was a no-go. I noticed the stock 4.6L oil pan is pretty much as long of a sump as possible, any longer and it's going to hit the engine cradle.

Looking into the Moroso Fox Body oil pan presently if that becomes an issue.

[gdmjoe]

BTW ... CM AUTOWERKZ (http://www.cmautowerkz.com/cmauto/) is (has been) in the process of Building a 5.0 Coyote Nightstalker (http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2853121#Post2853121) *FRPP crate > Crown Victoria - thread at CrownVic.net
.

[Bad_S55]

BTW ... CM AUTOWERKZ (http://www.cmautowerkz.com/cmauto/) is (has been) in the process of Building a 5.0 Coyote Nightstalker (http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2853121#Post2853121) *FRPP crate > Crown Victoria - thread at CrownVic.net
.

Yeah, and it's only up to $42000.

[96gt4.6]

Nice! I haven't been over on CVN for a while, interesting! Looks like they went 6spd Manual as well, pretty unique! I can't wait to see the finished product!

[justbob]

Yeah, and it's only up to $42000.


And just how long of a build has it been? The coyote will already be outdated! LOL


Builder Of Badassery

[chief455]

this thread must be highest read on site.
I would love, and fully expect, this to pioneer to a swap kit down the road.
A 2015 435fhp take out from a Mustang should be tried soon.....
good job you ground breakers! :beer:

[96gt4.6]

O how I miss that spool sound!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp5Tz78Qfo4

Looks like the heater case is one of the biggest issues as of right now. I see that CMAUTOWERKZ was notating that in their swap, however it appears they were able to massage their stock case and make it work by how they talk. From my measurements, this will be the biggest issue next to the LH manifold/header/steering shaft issue, which may not be one at all with the Mustang manifold.

Oil pan will slam into the K member from what i'm finding. I overnighted the Moroso unit, as I will be test fitting the 5.0 tomorrow afternoon by the looks of this.

More to come

[justbob]

See if you can simply shift the engine back to clear the pan. It wouldn't be all that involved.

I like to use bolt on parts for stuff like this. I don't mind moving/altering major components to reap the benefits of the smaller!


Builder Of Badassery

[MarauderMatt200]

WOW!! good luck with the build this is awesome....how do you subscribe to a thread?

[Joe Walsh]

this thread must be highest read on site.
I would love, and fully expect, this to pioneer to a swap kit down the road.
A 2015 435fhp take out from a Mustang should be tried soon.....
good job you ground breakers! :beer:

Great minds think alike!!!!.....:banana:

or is it sick minds.....:hmmm:

Now.....who is rich enough for a 5.2L flat plane crank Shelby GT350 525 HP modular?

It doesn't hurt to dream.....

unless you fall out of bed.

[Bad_S55]

Great minds think alike!!!!.....:banana:

or is it sick minds.....:hmmm:

Now.....who is rich enough for a 5.2L flat plane crank Shelby GT350 525 HP modular?

It doesn't hurt to dream.....

unless you fall out of bed.

That's pure evil!!!!! I love it :2thumbs:

[chief455]

WOW!! good luck with the build this is awesome....how do you subscribe to a thread?
scroll up, it says 'thread tools' click on 'subscribe' and 'instant email notification'.

[chief455]

Great minds think alike!!!!.....:banana:

or is it sick minds.....:hmmm:

Now.....who is rich enough for a 5.2L flat plane crank Shelby GT350 525 HP modular?

It doesn't hurt to dream.....

unless you fall out of bed.
Glad someone else saw my post, Joe!
I'm thinking the same - if these 2012-2015 Coyotes are the same dimensions, buy the baddest one, once this swap is proven and parts attainable. :eek:

[blkZooM]

Lol man you guys dream big. I'm just trying to stuff 2v 5.4L with a Whipple on top.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[96gt4.6]

She's installed.

Pics will be up this evening.

[Bad_S55]

She's installed.

Pics will be up this evening.

Awesome man!! I'm excited to see this!!!! Did you get the tranny mocked up in the tunnel?

[jwibbity]

man you work quick, this thread is awesome!!!

[96gt4.6]

Teaser pics!

Here's the old girl coming out, she was a good one and will make the new owner happy, and put his Marauder back on the road:

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150718_120547_zpsveyy1xxb.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150718_123813-1_zpsev5bw3p4.jpg

You have to use this oil pan, or make a solution of your own. The small hump highlighted on the stock Coyote pan will slam into the engine cradle. The Moroso pan isn't 100% either, I had to move the engine back just a bit by slotting the stock Marauder engine mounts. It doesn't take much, the pan barely hits once you get the trans installed and trans crossmember in. For now, i'm using the stock 4R70W for today's mock up purposes, as I don't have the engine/transmission yet (set to arrive Tuesday, I have a 2nd 5.0L that's got internal issues i'm using for mock-up purposes, hence the VERY DIRTY oil pan!). At that time, we'll see what all problems the 6 speed adds. This way, I can also get readings on all the proper angles things need to set at, for when I have to make the transmission crossmember/modify it for the 6speed setup.



The engine is slightly wider than the outgoing 4.6L, but so far, does not appear to cause a concern other than very slight interference on the heater case, which for me was nothing more than a slight depression into the space blanket type wrapping that's on it.

More to come.

[96gt4.6]

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150718_150810_zps3trudups.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150718_150823_zpshoo0qgkx.jp g

[Bad_S55]

Did you try it with the Mustang headers/manifolds?

[justbob]

Did you record the original driveline angle yet to ensure no headaches with vibrations? I had to make my own crossmember for the TR6060. I know CWRight has custom one also for his 4L80E.

Here's mine.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/18/de4d76c66e8686eb0cf7546131889d 80.jpg


Builder Of Badassery

[96gt4.6]

Indeed, I did Bob. I forgot to mention that. I took all the driveline angles prior to taking the stock 4v out. I then seated the Coyote, and re measured. It appears at this time, that the Coyote does not change any angles. At this point if I were using the 4R70W, the stock driveline could be reused no issue even with the slight adjustment rearward of the powertrain.

More to come on the crossmember once I get the 6R in there. My plans are to cut/rework and reweld the stock cross member, but we'll see once the 6R is in, and angles are set, what i'm left to work with.

Exhaust at this point will be a set of stock Mustang tubular manifolds. The truck mani's are simply too wide to work with. The passenger side would probably work, but the driver side is a no go. I took some measurements from a stock Mustang yesterday on the lift at work, and it looks like they will fit just fine. I will know as soon as they arrive for test fitting next week.

As long as the 6r tucks into the tunnel, this sukka will be a go at this point! IF for some reason it won't fit.....I will most likely use the 4R70 from here on.

Stay tuned.

[Bad_S55]

You could always just go the redneck route and bang out the tunnel. If for some reason you run into a serious problem, you could always make a custom tunnel. The only problem I see with a new tunnel is getting the console to fit over it if it's significantly different.

[justbob]

You could always just go the redneck route and bang out the tunnel. If for some reason you run into a serious problem, you could always make a custom tunnel. The only problem I see with a new tunnel is getting the console to fit over it if it's significantly different.


Mine fit. [emoji6] And you could say it was significantly different alright! ANYTHING is possible. [emoji106]🏻


Builder Of Badassery

[Mebot]

What a cool build thread. It's been awhile since we've had such a refreshing build thread like this on the forum. Keep up the good work

Can't stop the signal...

[lifespeed]

Did you record the original driveline angle yet to ensure no headaches with vibrations? I had to make my own crossmember for the TR6060. I know CWRight has custom one also for his 4L80E.

Was your trans output shaft angle lowered relative to stock as a result of the manual swap? Do you think this worsened the Marauder driveshaft vibration issue?

[96gt4.6]

On my '97, which ran a GM 4L80E, I simply recorded all angles with a magnetic angle meter, and set them the same going back together with the chevy stuf. I had no issues to 160 mph in that car, using the stock Vic driveshaft, which I had shortened and high speed balanced.

Calling it quits for the day! Pic dump time!

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150718_162220_zpsupk5psqz.jp g
http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150718_164901_zpseukzn2el.jp g
http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150718_165043_zpssisqtuzq.jp g
http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150718_171823_zpsg2msfqha.jp g
http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150718_182124_zps3t8ho07b.jp g
http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150718_182208_zpsv6wme6bz.jp g


That will be all till Wednesday evening or so when I get back on it, and the trans/accessory bracket/ect will be here.

Going good!

[justbob]

Was your trans output shaft angle lowered relative to stock as a result of the manual swap? Do you think this worsened the Marauder driveshaft vibration issue?


I'll answer this for the sake of helping someone that might be building their own cross member or feel the stock one modified is "close enough" and apologize for the hi jack.

I had massage the tunnel slightly (after I recessed in for the under mount shifter). Even with this I ended up around 1/4 of 1% lower. Of course that is for just us that feel accuracy matters. My tailshaft is the same 4 1/4" bolt pattern as the 8.8 and I tried a steel telescoping shaft that failed at 80 and up. The Driveshaft Shop set me up with a lengthened GT500 upgrade constant velocity shaft that is capable of 1,000+ RWHP @ 8* max pinion angle LOL

You can say we've tested it with three adults at the top of 3rd with 26#s of boost with the only vibration being tire slippage. Frank at The Driveshaft Shop is a true class act.

Sorry for the hijack! Just didn't want to read about other members issues.




Builder Of Badassery

[96gt4.6]

Actually your input is greatly appreciated! I will be needing a telescoping shaft on my setup as well. The output shaft on the A6 is a fixed yoke design. I need an experienced mind to help on that. The mustang uses a carrier with a telescopic rear section. Do or can a shaft be made that has a telescopic joint in it, but no carrier?

[chief455]

Awesome, simply awesome.
I hope, without removal, you an reproduce the modified motor mount, oil pan, and guide to clearance cut areas and amounts.
Like templates and custom built 5.0 swap parts.
Someone here will want to make and sell this stuff.
I'm so happy you are documenting this and working so professionally.
And so many have so much helpful tips to add!
This is hands down THE best thread since I joined the site.
5 thumbs up!!

[96gt4.6]

^ That wouldn't be a problem. The mount offset I used was 3/4". And the Moroso pan # should be in there as well. The factory trans crossmember has slotted holes for the trans mount, up to 1 inch back you can go. However, you have to cut the front of the trans crossmember area (easy as its flat steel) because it hits the trans pan.

So far, this is all it has taken to seat the 5.0L. We will know more when the accessory mount kit shows on how well this location pans out. For those staying 4r70w, this is how I would go about it. Let's hope the 6 speed auto fits the tunnel, if so, get ready boys as this pig is going to get serious real quick.

[chief455]

^ That wouldn't be a problem. The mount offset I used was 3/4". And the Moroso pan # should be in there as well. The factory trans crossmember has slotted holes for the trans mount, up to 1 inch back you can go. However, you have to cut the front of the trans crossmember area (easy as its flat steel) because it hits the trans pan.

So far, this is all it has taken to seat the 5.0L. We will know more when the accessory mount kit shows on how well this location pans out. For those staying 4r70w, this is how I would go about it. Let's hope the 6 speed auto fits the tunnel, if so, get ready boys as this pig is going to get serious real quick.

that is the cake frosting, man! From what I'm seeing here, you'll get it. And the few serious guys digging in with you, :bows:

Someday, this WILL be a viable swap kit, just supply a pullout 5.0/6spd auto/PCM

[justbob]

Actually your input is greatly appreciated! I will be needing a telescoping shaft on my setup as well. The output shaft on the A6 is a fixed yoke design. I need an experienced mind to help on that. The mustang uses a carrier with a telescopic rear section. Do or can a shaft be made that has a telescopic joint in it, but no carrier?


If that's the case I strongly recommend not going telescoping. I tore my first one clean in half at 90 at the track. Like a fool I had another one built. Warped it, had another shop re balance, warped it again out of state, re balanced again..

My C.V. Style aluminum one from DSS lets the CV joint collapse, then it pulls outward when torqued. This eliminates the telescoping woes of harmonics, a normal complaint of any newer high powered Mustang.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/18/f447bcb9f7c601a3d4a3b1bd5d9a34 6b.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/18/d6039b2440708803a73ddab34367c4 09.jpg


Builder Of Badassery

[96gt4.6]

Thank you sir! Once the trans is seated and measurements made, I know what to get!

[Marauderjack]

Just got this from JEGS.....not sure if it's a good deal or not but thought I'd throw it out for ya!!:beer:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Ford-Racing/397/M-6007-M50/10002/-1?parentProductId=#moreDetails

Sounds like a good price to me??:D

[Zack]

A 4R100 will fit the tunnel and that's been proven.
How do they compare in size?

[96gt4.6]

It has to be close if not smaller to a 4r100, those are pretty massive.

That Jegs link no worky :(

[Marauderjack]

It has to be close if not smaller to a 4r100, those are pretty massive.

That Jegs link no worky :(

Works fine for me!!

Complete 2011-2014 Mustang Coyote motor for $6564.99...free shipping!!

[96gt4.6]

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-07/Screenshot_2015-07-19-09-25-17_zpsmhzo731e.png

Might be because I'm using a mobile device.

I'm curious to see the power difference in the truck motor. I'm also going to install the Mustang intake cams, which at cost are very cheap. The only difference on this setup should be the pistons, vs the Mustang Coyote. Salvage prices are very reasonable, I got the engine, trans, wiring, ecu, all hoses, and part of the pullout body harness for $3500 shipped.

[96gt4.6]

Anyone watch Power Nation? They did a Hellion kit today, bone stock '15 Coyote/A6 @ 14 psi. I'm glad to see my decision to go Ford is backed up in professional testing. That's some impressive hp on an all stock motor:
http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-07/20150719_095232_zpsluvbl8bn.jp g

[BigM460]

Have heard that the 2015 Mustang engines have better rods and will take 1000hp. Any idea on the durability of the truck rods?

[chief455]

Have heard that the 2015 Mustang engines have better rods and will take 1000hp. Any idea on the durability of the truck rods?

I can only guess the 2015 is better all around than prior years - strength and performance. I'll keep reading what you guys find out....

[96gt4.6]

I will do some research at the parts counter tomorrow on the rod ordeal. I do know however that even the prior years ('11-14) were pretty stable up to 800 fly hp.

[Joe Walsh]

Have heard that the 2015 Mustang engines have better rods and will take 1000hp. Any idea on the durability of the truck rods?


I can only guess the 2015 is better all around than prior years - strength and performance. I'll keep reading what you guys find out....


I will do some research at the parts counter tomorrow on the rod ordeal. I do know however that even the prior years ('11-14) were pretty stable up to 800 fly hp.

"The 2015 Mustang, in all its forms, is one of the most-anticipated and highly-hyped vehicles to come down the pipeline in recent memory. The complete redesign of the car sets it up for world-debut status, as this is the first Mustang to ever be offered outside U.S. shores, necessitated changes in the power strategy moving forward – and all the details are here.

The 5.0L Coyote powerplant has proven itself exceptionally capable since its introduction in the Mustang back in 2011. The high-winding, four-valve-per-cylinder V8 engine took the best of each of Ford’s technologies at the time, incorporated them all into one engine platform that boasted 412 horsepower and 390 lb-ft of torque, and showed the capability to handle large power improvements through the addition of various aftermarket engine enhancements like turbo- and supercharging.

Coyote Upgrades

For 2015, the 5.0L has been revised using a number of technologies designed to improve the horsepower and torque figures, along with fuel economy, without hurting performance. One of the major upgrades to the 5.0L is the addition of Charge Motion Control Plates, which were tried on previous Four-Valve 4.6 engines with varying levels of success – but mainly served to frustrate enthusiasts as the previous designs were a serious restriction, and in fact ended up on the shop floor once an enthusiast began serious modifications with an eye toward performance.

These plates are designed to close off some of the large intake runner to speed up the incoming airflow’s velocity and boost the torque figures at low speed. The plates fold up toward the roof of the intake runner and become invisible to the incoming air when they are open. The benefit of using these plates is a 2-mile-per-gallon increase in fuel economy, and an additional 20 lb-ft of torque over the 2011-14 iteration of the powerplant.

According to Engineering Manager Brian Mazzella, “They have the same intent as the 4.6-liter engine. This time around was a real crusade of ours to design the plates to fold out of the way so they don’t pivot in the middle like a throttle body. When it folds into the runner it’s gone so you can’t see it at all and it doesn’t impede power whatsoever. You’ll notice when you get in the car, if you have any experience with the 2011 and up cars, that idle is far better – just smooth as silk.”

Also upgraded during the engineering process were the cylinder heads. In order to create a more direct air path, the intake valves were enlarged by .3mm, which results in a four percent increase.

ICE engineer (Intake, Combustion, and Exhaust) Adam Christian, says, “The valve stays in the same place and the ports got a little bigger. What happens is that septum in the port (what we call the middle of the two runners) dropped way down. So it’s almost just one port all the way down, then suddenly splits into two.”

Christian continues, “Basically the 2015 5.0 cylinder head flows as good as the BOSS head, but in a cast form. It also received the BOSS exhaust valve which is eighth tenths of a millimeter bigger.”

Piston design has also been altered to create a stronger casting that uses a new ring package and the valve reliefs in the piston are enlarged to accommodate the larger valves

Connecting rods used are straight from the BOSS302 program."

2015 Mustang Coyote is a badazz 435 HP/400 FT-LBs 5.0L V8!

Wait until FORD gives it direct injection...that's the next 5.0L upgrade.

[chief455]

way to go, Joe!
As I suspected, and more!

"Piston design has also been altered to create a stronger casting that uses a new ring package and the valve reliefs in the piston are enlarged to accommodate the larger valves

Connecting rods used are straight from the BOSS302 program."

Watch the 2015 Coyote swaps that will be happening into many various vehicles.
this is so WINNING!!

[96gt4.6]

That is indeed quite the upgrade package! We'll see how far this old junkyard truck motor will go. Anyone know estimated failure points for the '11-14 models?

[Joe Walsh]

That is indeed quite the upgrade package! We'll see how far this old junkyard truck motor will go. Anyone know estimated failure points for the '11-14 models?

The pre-2015 5.0L engines can still take a lot of boost.
JPC Racing and Evolution Racing were getting some sick power numbers and ETs out of boosted bone stock 11-14 5.0Ls.

You won't find many 2015 junkyard 5.0L engines...and if you do they will cost wayyyyy more than what you paid for the truck motor.
Plus the truck motor's slightly lower compression ratio will help you when you hit it with the boost.

http://www.jpcracing.com/jpc-racing-2011-up-5-0-mustang-single-turbo-system/

[96gt4.6]

^ Thank you for the info sir!

[96gt4.6]

Not related to the swap, but just in case someone watching this might be interested:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=97236

That's the for sale thread on my stock engine/trans pullout.

[96gt4.6]

Not the first to use a 6R80 in a swap, but still hoping to be the first Marauder to use this combo:

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?1034621-93-Cobra-Coyote-Clone-1-of-1-6R80-Select-a-shift-conversion

[Merky_Marquis]

I saw your Craigslist ad Alan. I would love to take a trip your way and take a look at it when you finish this project.

[96gt4.6]

Well the 6 speed seems to fit!

It's really not all that much tighter than the 70W:
http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150721_210145_zpsh53lyuvo.jp ghttp://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150721_212723_zps0tkqgupn.jp g
http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150721_210134_zpsrlk8z9vt.jp g

[MOTOWN]

Looks like your going to need JustBobs guy for a heavy-duty C/V drive shaft!

Correction, i forgot he went with a CV shaft

[96gt4.6]

^ indeed!

I was just in contact with them this morning :). Looks like we are using a Mustang style one piece shaft. I need to get the dimensions to them to get the build going on it.

This weekend I'm going to work on getting the O.E. Cross Member altered/fabricated so I can get my final angles set, then get the measurements to them to start fabrication.

One step at a time! After she's hard mounted and the shaft in, most of the hard stuff is out of the way! PBH accessory kit is here, probably won't try it out until I get the motor in for final assembly, but looks first rate with detailed instructions/ect.

[MOTOWN]

^ indeed!

I was just in contact with them this morning :). Looks like we are using a Mustang style one piece shaft. I need to get the dimensions to them to get the build going on it.

This weekend I'm going to work on getting the O.E. Cross Member altered/fabricated so I can get my final angles set, then get the measurements to them to start fabrication.

One step at a time! After she's hard mounted and the shaft in, most of the hard stuff is out of the way! PBH accessory kit is here, probably won't try it out until I get the motor in for final assembly, but looks first rate with detailed instructions/ect.

:banana2::bows:

[justbob]

Good to know your dealing with TDSS! Telescoping is junk! C.V. Is the only way to go!

Just make sure your static ride height measurement is DEAD nuts! There is little to NO give in the fudging dept. mine fits so tight I need to walk it on and off!

Man, I almost surprised they agreed to one that long!

They told me it didn't matter which end I mounted the C.V. side to, that it would perform the same requardless. I chose it on the trans side. Two years now and around 10,000 hard miles, all good.


Builder Of Badassery

[96gt4.6]

Got ya! I'm still in communication with them at the moment. I just submitted the measurements to them literally moments ago, so we'll see how it goes.

The length from flange to flange face is exactly 5 feet, 5 inches with the car supported at ride height by the suspension.

The shaft will be pricy by the talks of it, in the $800 range, but it's one area you can't skimp on when building, no doudt.

We'll see what they say!

[96gt4.6]

Shaft is good to go!

$850. We went with a 4" Aluminum due to critical speed constraints, as I wanted to be able to go up to a 4.10 rear axle ratio, but that would require a 5" tube which I do not think I have clearance for.

The stock 3.55's with a 6 speed auto should work out just fine. And, when I get the turbo setup on, I will most likely go down to 3.2x or lower as with past builds anyhow. I was simply thinking while it's naturally aspirated I'd give it the best setup possible and see what kind of 60' I could achieve with that deep overall gearing. :).

[Zack]

You will want to keep the 4:10's in the Marauder with the turbo.
Trust me

[96gt4.6]

^ That's interesting Zack!

On my LS builds, my 60' got better with less gear (when turbocharged that is!) as you could load the turbo harder through each gear and stay in the meat of the power band longer, plus with the kind of TQ those produced on boost, it never seemed to care.

But, again, those were LS builds so how much of that applies to this one, idk.

On the same note though, with this being a 5.0L, not sure how much will apply to it either!

If I do have to go deeper, I can simply lower my top speed to maintain under the critical speed limit.

Thanks for the help!

[MOTOWN]

You shouldn't need 4:10s with a Turbo on a 281cubic inch motor, if you need to spin it that hard i guarantee your A.R. housing is too big for your motor, on a Marauder i wouldn't go any bigger than a 76mm single , or 62mm twins , small displacement motors work much better with smaller turbos fitted for that application.

[chief455]

You will want to keep the 4:10's in the Marauder with the turbo.
Trust me
What experience with gears did you go through, if you don't mind?
I do trust you, just curious what brought you to say 4.10...

[96gt4.6]

You shouldn't need 4:10s with a Turbo on a 281cubic inch motor, if you need to spin it that hard i guarantee your A.R. housing is too big for your motor, on a Marauder i wouldn't go any bigger than a 76mm single , or 62mm twins , small displacement motors work much better with smaller turbos fitted for that application.

If I can fabricate a single system on this setup based on space constraints, I was going to use the same ON3 78/76 i've been using, with the same .96 ex turbine housing.

The 5.0L seems to flow very similar CFM to the LS motors i've been using that turbo on, so I figured it would be a very fitting unit here as well.

[MOTOWN]

If I can fabricate a single system on this setup based on space constraints, I was going to use the same ON3 78/76 i've been using, with the same .96 ex turbine housing.

The 5.0L seems to flow very similar CFM to the LS motors i've been using that turbo on, so I figured it would be a very fitting unit here as well.

A .96 AR housing is wayy too big for a 4.6l motor , but if your set on using it then yes your going to need 4:10s and a higher than normal stall to make that oversized turbo work, basically your pushing your powerband into the stratosphere due to the wrong sized turbo , i had 4 Buick Grand Nationals , i built each of them with the fastest running in the low 9s at 1072rwhp , if you dont get the turbo sized correctly you will have a 4K paper weight.

[96gt4.6]

A .96 AR housing is wayy too big for a 4.6l motor , but if your set on using it then yes your going to need 4:10s and a higher than normal stall to make that oversized turbo work, basically your pushing your powerband into the stratosphere due to the wrong sized turbo , i had 4 Buick Grand Nationals , i built each of them with the fastest running in the low 9s at 1072rwhp , if you dont get the turbo sized correctly you will have a 4K paper weight.


Turbo sizing is based off of airflow CFM characteristics, correct?

Just looking for a little clarification on the subject, that's all, no disrespect intended at all :).

On GM LS motors, our smaller displacement setup was a 4.8L, which we've used 80mm setups on with a .96 AR. It would have no issue lighting the turbo by 3500rpm, but only because our heads flowed nearly 2x what a Ford 4.6L did, and therefore could spool it no problem.

I'm not using a 4.6L on this build, it's a Coyote 5.0L with heads that (somebody correct me if I'm WAY off, I don't have specs handy) flow in the 3xx range.

The last turbo 5.3L Fox we just built ran an ON3 78/76, .96 and was full spool by 3500 give/take.

An engine is nothing more than an air pump, and the turbo is sized to the amount of airflow going through it accordingly. We know the outgoing 4.6L is nothing in comparison to the 5.0L as far as airflow goes, so therefore, a turbo of a smaller size that would work on the 4.6L would severely restrict the much more efficient breathing 5.0L. She will be full spool at probably 2k, but be choked up with back pressure by 6k, with a redline of 8k (stock shift points on the Coyote 5.0L Mustang are 7200).

Again, just looking to wrap my mind around the subject more, no harm intended!

[Joe Walsh]

Turbo sizing is based off of airflow CFM characteristics, correct?

Just looking for a little clarification on the subject, that's all, no disrespect intended at all :).

On GM LS motors, our smaller displacement setup was a 4.8L, which we've used 80mm setups on with a .96 AR. It would have no issue lighting the turbo by 3500rpm, but only because our heads flowed nearly 2x what a Ford 4.6L did, and therefore could spool it no problem.

I'm not using a 4.6L on this build, it's a Coyote 5.0L with heads that (somebody correct me if I'm WAY off, I don't have specs handy) flow in the 3xx range.

The last turbo 5.3L Fox we just built ran an ON3 78/76, .96 and was full spool by 3500 give/take.

An engine is nothing more than an air pump, and the turbo is sized to the amount of airflow going through it accordingly. We know the outgoing 4.6L is nothing in comparison to the 5.0L as far as airflow goes, so therefore, a turbo of a smaller size that would work on the 4.6L would severely restrict the much more efficient breathing 5.0L. She will be full spool at probably 2k, but be choked up with back pressure by 6k, with a redline of 8k (stock shift points on the Coyote 5.0L Mustang are 7200).

Again, just looking to wrap my mind around the subject more, no harm intended!

When sizing the aftermarket turbo for my 1984 2.3L Mustang GT, I looked at a lot of different turbos and their associated compressor maps.
Depends on the engine's cubic inches, rpm level, boost level, intended use (race vs. street-spool up)...etc.

http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/power-adders/understanding-compressor-maps-sizing-a-turbocharger/

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/performance/support/knowledge-base



.

[MOTOWN]

Turbo sizing is based off of airflow CFM characteristics, correct?

Just looking for a little clarification on the subject, that's all, no disrespect intended at all :).

On GM LS motors, our smaller displacement setup was a 4.8L, which we've used 80mm setups on with a .96 AR. It would have no issue lighting the turbo by 3500rpm, but only because our heads flowed nearly 2x what a Ford 4.6L did, and therefore could spool it no problem.

I'm not using a 4.6L on this build, it's a Coyote 5.0L with heads that (somebody correct me if I'm WAY off, I don't have specs handy) flow in the 3xx range.

The last turbo 5.3L Fox we just built ran an ON3 78/76, .96 and was full spool by 3500 give/take.

An engine is nothing more than an air pump, and the turbo is sized to the amount of airflow going through it accordingly. We know the outgoing 4.6L is nothing in comparison to the 5.0L as far as airflow goes, so therefore, a turbo of a smaller size that would work on the 4.6L would severely restrict the much more efficient breathing 5.0L. She will be full spool at probably 2k, but be choked up with back pressure by 6k, with a redline of 8k (stock shift points on the Coyote 5.0L Mustang are 7200).

Again, just looking to wrap my mind around the subject more, no harm intended!

Forgive my ignorance on your build , i have 4.6l on the brain! With 5.0l motor you will be fine with that turbo, i think it will perform well, I would stick with the 3:55 gears and a 3K to 3,500 stall unless you are going with a manual transmission

[96gt4.6]

Thank you Joe and MOTOWN for the help! I will take a very good look at those articles and links as I grow closer to selecting a Turbo for this setup.

Traditionally, with the GM LS setup's I've done, I've simply selected what is working for others via seeing their setups work in person here at the drag strip and on the Dyno.

My basis for using the same turbo on this setup, was simply because I believe the setup to have similar flow characteristics to what I've been using them on, as they seem to produce around the same amount of power N/A, BUT at the same time I know that this leaves wayyyyyyy to many variables on the table, as has been pointed out.

There will be a revisit to turbo sizing once I grow more near to selection of it. I need to look into the single turbo kits that are on the market right now, and see what they are using. This will give me a good basis for what direction to proceed with sizing.

Loving the help fellas!

[BigM460]

I think you should have it covered with the 3:55's. Think once turbocharged it will be happiest with 3:27-3:55. If roll racing you might need something even taller!

[8UWITH6]

I am enjoying reading this thread. Keep up the good work and pictures make this moar betta :)

[Zack]

4 pages of a build thread with nothing built yet.
Time to start a new thread

[8UWITH6]

It's not the number of pages, its the content within.................. ;)

[Joe Walsh]

4 pages of a build thread with nothing built yet.
Time to start a new thread

We've got a Coyote between a Marauder's frame rails.....I call that a WIN!

This might be the only hope for my Marauder....I'm not dropping another cent into a 4.6 turd....nor my wounded 5.0L.

I want a real 5.0L that can put out 435 HP N/A....with a warranty from FRPP.
A 427W SBF is a no-go in emissions testing Maryland (California Lite)
A Jon Kaase based BOSS 521 is crazy money....and non-emissions compliant as well.

[Turbov6Bryan]

Op- what brand turbo are you planning to use? Turbonetics. Pte. China?

Do you plan on putting a separate oil filter pre turbo? I see tons of guys blow their motors and all the metal debris goes through the turbo, then they prey the turbo lives. Haha.

I own a newer 5.0 coyote mustang, and I'd be looking to upgrade the oil pump if I turbo'd my car..
Local guys break the oil pump at around 650, might do some reading on how much it can take..

What intercooler? Treadstone?

Great project man, can wait to see what your gonna do to get it running... Can you get the vats and key from the truck to get it to start?

[Joe Walsh]

I thought that the powdered metal oil pump gear failure was more an rpm (excess amount) and detonation related issue....not a max HP problem....?

[Turbov6Bryan]

Idk. Chicken vs egg theory. I wouldn't turbo it without taking the oil pump into consideration.

[Zack]

What experience with gears did you go through, if you don't mind?
I do trust you, just curious what brought you to say 4.10...

I don't. As Motown said, a .96 housing is too big. (That's what I have)
4:10's save it from being a pig down low.
And since I never go much over 100 anymore, it all works perfectly

If I didn't have a zillion cars robbing my earnings, I would switch the housing.

[hotford]

Love the coyote motor, but ive done my share of swaps there cool and all
even considered doing one in a fox set up, but after pen and paper the swap would have cost well over 20k they way I was going and realisticly you never recoupe any of that expense.........
personally if i was gonna turbo the set up you plan on doing a forged short block would be the only route i would be taking which is another added expense........
I believe your goal is 700 plus rwhp....that motor will only take so much of that power level at 3500 as turbo's will be well on at that rpm and those rods are only gonna take it so long........
Good luck loved to see the finished project.........

[96gt4.6]

Needing some experienced help on this question.

I'm working on transmission cross member fabrication and am questioning some of the frame design on this model.

On my '97, the engine cradle was a welded, non removable section of the vehicle's frame. The trans cross member was pretty much just a support for the trans weight, size wise.

I know in 2003 this platform went with the removable aluminum engine cradle, and I also noticed that the transmission cross member went from being tiny, to huge and is a type of press fit with huge frame ears.

My thoughts at this time are either it's extremely over built, or they wanted some additional support due to the engine cradle now being bolt-in vs. a welded section. OR it's just a different design to add structural support it didn't have before.

This change would have happened in 2003 across the board on this platform.

Has anyone got rid of the factory huge cross member, for an entirely different and smaller one, with no issues? I'm simply worried about it being more structural than I think it is on this car.

[96gt4.6]

Did you record the original driveline angle yet to ensure no headaches with vibrations? I had to make my own crossmember for the TR6060. I know CWRight has custom one also for his 4L80E.

Here's mine.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/18/de4d76c66e8686eb0cf7546131889d 80.jpg


Builder Of Badassery

^ Looking at Bob's crossmember, it's pretty beefy!

I'm THINKING the trans member on the bolt-in engine cradle cars, plays more of a role in the structure than the pre 2003 cars.

[lifespeed]

The 2003+ cars are definitely stiffer. Not sure you would want to give any of that up.

[chief455]

^ Looking at Bob's crossmember, it's pretty beefy!

I'm THINKING the trans member on the bolt-in engine cradle cars, plays more of a role in the structure than the pre 2003 cars.

think you answered your own question here. justbob's is awesome looking fabrication, and proven to take abuse. I'd build something similar for the 6sp auto swap. I agree with you suspision the factory knew it needs mid frame rigidity behind the bolt in engine cradle. No place to skimp.

[chief455]

I don't. As Motown said, a .96 housing is too big. (That's what I have)
4:10's save it from being a pig down low.
And since I never go much over 100 anymore, it all works perfectly

If I didn't have a zillion cars robbing my earnings, I would switch the housing.

I understand, thanks. Roger took his statement back when he realized this swap is 5.0 rather than 4.6, but - the logic remains.

[justbob]

Although very strong, it is less than half the weight. I decided to only use the inboard holes and never gave any concern to it. It handles no different than stock if that's your concern.


Builder Of Badassery

[Serge]

Not sure if this was covered already but what setup are you using for your accessories? Since Coyotes have electric steering and Panthers are hydraulic. Buying one of several accessory kits or going a different route?

[96gt4.6]

I ended up purchasing the power by the hour accessory kit.

[CameronVic]

You will want to keep the 4:10's in the Marauder with the turbo.
Trust mewith a 4.07 1st gear, that would be a 16+ SLR, that's WAY too much. LOL. Some super sharp guy told him about near free trans brake mod for the 6R80e, I imagine he can put a longer gear out back and be JUST fine.

[CameronVic]

I bet it would FLY with some of those eBay GT35s like I have on my 5.3. Not a bad turbo for $280 a piece. 6161s.

[96gt4.6]

^Thanks for the heads up on that TBrake mod Cameron, once I get to the wiring I will most certainly be exploiting that!

Still a ways out on the turbo setup, but proven combos are where it's at, and dat price doe......good stuff!

[96gt4.6]

Intake cams, timing cover, oil pump and some other goodies are all here. Should have some major progress update pics by this Sunday evening as i'm setup for a huge leap in progress.

PCM is at HPT getting re-worked to delete the EPATS as we speak.

Driveshaft is in fabrication, so really all I need to do it get to crackin' and get the thing hard mounted, all the plumbing done, then start making my wiring harness from the stock harness and cross breeding it with the existing Marauder engine harness/body harness.

Fuel system components have arrived as well. Time to knuckle up and get things going. The heat here has been somewhat of a factor, working in 100+ degree temps takes it's toll being as I work all day at the dealership, then turn around and do it again after work on the Marauder.

[justbob]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/27/aa8c53888588d243dbe9b5feb70359 ec.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/27/1cc9b04a2a128cbed602c3c9ce879c 04.jpg


Builder Of Badassery

[BigM460]

Intake cams, timing cover, oil pump and some other goodies are all here. Should have some major progress update pics by this Sunday evening as i'm setup for a huge leap in progress.

PCM is at HPT getting re-worked to delete the EPATS as we speak.

Driveshaft is in fabrication, so really all I need to do it get to crackin' and get the thing hard mounted, all the plumbing done, then start making my wiring harness from the stock harness and cross breeding it with the existing Marauder engine harness/body harness.

Fuel system components have arrived as well. Time to knuckle up and get things going. The heat here has been somewhat of a factor, working in 100+ degree temps takes it's toll being as I work all day at the dealership, then turn around and do it again after work on the Marauder.
So......HPT has figured out how to disable EPATS? Didn't realize you found the work around already. Outstanding!!!

[96gt4.6]

^ Let's hope! After conversing with Eric @ HP Tuners, he requested my ECU for trying an EPATS disabling procedure on it. No promises at this time, so we'll wait and see, could be a no go and we're back to square one, for which I have a secondary solution, hopefully.

Gettin' antsy to get to the wiring, it's kinda my most anticipated part of the builds. I love mixing and matching electrical components from different eras and seeing them work in concert to form a factory-like functionality.

Still about 3 weeks out till I get that far currently. Got a lot of fabrication/plumbing and still need to update the F150 engine with the Coyote cams/timing cover and oil pump.

and inch at a time!

[BigM460]

^ Let's hope! After conversing with Eric @ HP Tuners, he requested my ECU for trying an EPATS disabling procedure on it. No promises at this time, so we'll wait and see, could be a no go and we're back to square one, for which I have a secondary solution, hopefully.

Gettin' antsy to get to the wiring, it's kinda my most anticipated part of the builds. I love mixing and matching electrical components from different eras and seeing them work in concert to form a factory-like functionality.

Still about 3 weeks out till I get that far currently. Got a lot of fabrication/plumbing and still need to update the F150 engine with the Coyote cams/timing cover and oil pump.

and inch at a time!

In my opinion you are flying along in making progress!
Haven't heard of anyone else willing to just "go" on this kind of swap. Just wish I lived close so I could watch, help, and learn! Glad you update often also!:cool4:

[Fastbob]

In my opinion you are flying along in making progress!
Haven't heard of anyone else willing to just "go" on this kind of swap. Just wish I lived close so I could watch, help, and learn! Glad you update often also!:cool4:He is only 50 miles away from me so I can go watch for you. On second thought, it is too damned hot. Think I'll stay at home in the A/C.

[Turbov6Bryan]

He is only 50 miles away from me so I can go watch for you. On second thought, it is too damned hot. Think I'll stay at home in the A/C.

Lol. I don't even know the guy and have thought about checking it out!

We needs more pictures:bows:

[96gt4.6]

I really appreciate all the kindness guys, makes me feel good about being so open with the swap. My work is nowhere near as good as some that have posted here, but it's safe and seems to work in the past. Plenty of pics are being taken at present, and I'm hoping to have a large pic dump this weekend. Got the trans crossmember nearly finished this evening. Eric @ HPT emailed me and said the ECU made it and he was going to start modifying it tomorrow.

Luckily the heat is supposed to break from Wednesday onward so the pace will pick up a bit. Tonight was in the 90s but instead of the swamp like humidity we had normal stickiness today so it wasn't too bad.

Big things are on the horizon! Also got the Mustang tubular headers today, both sides need modification to work, but not too badly.

[CameronVic]

You're just humble. I envy your patience and attention to detail.

[mad1stgen]

Intake cams, timing cover, oil pump and some other goodies are all here. Should have some major progress update pics by this Sunday evening as i'm setup for a huge leap in progress.

Do you plan on documenting the cam swap process ? I am sure that would come in handy for everybody using the truck engine in the future.

I can't wait to see the harness dieting too :beer: Too awesome !!!

[96gt4.6]

You're just humble. I envy your patience and attention to detail.

I've seen your pics on CV.net Cameron, you got some serious metalworking skills sir, some of magic that's happening with 'The Law' is killer to say the least!

I will take pics during the cam swap process as well. I've had a few of these apart at work (we've seen valve seat failures on work trucks that have seen heavy sand ingestion) and they are very simple in nature compared to some of the other modular's.

I'm hoping to be to that point by this weekend :). I'd like to get the acutal motor i'm using set in place and test fit the Power By The Hour accessory kit as well.

[Zack]

If you are planning on Turbocharging later on, may I suggest making the motor mounts solid?
I did that on mine...It's barely noticeable and prevents all of the pipes from excessive flexing.

I don't even have a flex pipe anywhere on my hot side and its perfectly fine.

[96gt4.6]

If you are planning on Turbocharging later on, may I suggest making the motor mounts solid?
I did that on mine...It's barely noticeable and prevents all of the pipes from excessive flexing.

I don't even have a flex pipe anywhere on my hot side and its perfectly fine.

hey there Zach!

I'm not really a solid mount guy myself....I mean I get the point and it does work, no doudt, however I've just always used flex couplers in my hot sides and kept isolators in all the mounts. I'm actually amazed that it doesn't produce vibrations in the cab honestly. I'm sure if I experience mount failure or other flex issues i'll have to resort to other means at that time.

The MOST power i've produced out of the LS setups was a little over 700 RWHP, and still utilizing stock style mounts, and *knock on wood* had great success so far. However, I will admit, the stock Marauder mounts seem a little more cheezy than some of the others i've dealt with.

Anyone here still running stock mounts with decent power??

[justbob]

Mine are welded and I'm not kidding when I say I couldn't tell a difference! I had no choice as my F1 is 100% welded and my inlet is braced right to the throttle body. I've seen enough blown off pipes and embarrassed owners to say you won't ever see that on mine!

Keep in mind that mine is lowered with all suspension mods except the watts link so my suspension is already quite stiff.

Zack told me I could feel his only slightly at start up and never while running. Honestly I didn't even notice his at all either.

He had his professionally welded. I just welded a bridge plate on the back side still in the car, even the starter was still installed LOL. Worked fine, I was just in a frenzy trying to meet an impossible dyno date three states away with limited time off..


Builder Of Badassery

[96gt4.6]

Thank you guys! I'll add it to the information i'm still compiling on the build :).

[justbob]

Engine mounts are cheap. [emoji4]


Builder Of Badassery

[MOTOWN]

Im running the stock mounts with no issues.

[Triple Threat]

hey there Zach!

I'm not really a solid mount guy myself....I mean I get the point and it does work, no doudt, however I've just always used flex couplers in my hot sides and kept isolators in all the mounts. I'm actually amazed that it doesn't produce vibrations in the cab honestly. I'm sure if I experience mount failure or other flex issues i'll have to resort to other means at that time.

The MOST power i've produced out of the LS setups was a little over 700 RWHP, and still utilizing stock style mounts, and *knock on wood* had great success so far. However, I will admit, the stock Marauder mounts seem a little more cheezy than some of the others i've dealt with.

Anyone here still running stock mounts with decent power??

Stock motor mounts on purple.767rwhp.

[Zack]

Nothing is wrong with the stock mounts.
I just think going solid is better for a turbo car

[Bad_S55]

Nothing is wrong with the stock mounts.
I just think going solid is better for a turbo car

If you don't mind me asking Zack, did you make your solid mounts or did you have someone else do them?

[MOTOWN]

Nothing is wrong with the stock mounts.
I just think going solid is better for a turbo car

Agreed , the torque of a Turbo motor will kill rubber mounts in no time.

[96gt4.6]

Trans crossmember is almost complete. I ended up using the stock Marauder cross member, with some cutting/welding and fabrication. The 6R80 is now installed, and it even uses the stock 4R70W mount as well.

Now on to cam installation/final motor installation and exhaust modification. I have stock tubular Mustang headers, the passenger side is a no-go without reworking 1 tube, driver side is a go with some light tube crimping to clear the steering shaft, or I may just re-work it as well. We'll see what happens. The truck manifold works great on the passenger side, but driver side is a no go, and i'm not using a manifold on the RH and tubular manifold on the LH.

Turbo kit wise, this car will get a single turbo with a log manifold as per my last setups when i'm to that point. There is plenty of room for a downpipe and log manifold on the LH head with a crossover underneath the bell.

[8UWITH6]

So I thought you where doing an Chebby motor? ;) Be sure to take some pictures for us. Don't make me drive over to you. :)

[96gt4.6]

Lol, honestly I never know what I'm doing till it happens. There are quite a few pics of the progress through the last few pages. Got the trans crossmember done, starting the engine work tomorrow. Should have the motor set final and started on header modification by Sunday.

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-07/20150729_195003_zpsiuf3pvbn.jp g

[CameronVic]

I've seen your pics on CV.net Cameron, you got some serious metalworking skills sir, some of magic that's happening with 'The Law' is killer to say the least!

I will take pics during the cam swap process as well. I've had a few of these apart at work (we've seen valve seat failures on work trucks that have seen heavy sand ingestion) and they are very simple in nature compared to some of the other modular's.

I'm hoping to be to that point by this weekend :). I'd like to get the acutal motor i'm using set in place and test fit the Power By The Hour accessory kit as well.
I didn't do any of the fabricating on my car, I can't weld, I just know people that can, VERY WELL. LOL. I threw the motor together with a bunch of random stock and aftermarket parts, and built the transmission though!

[96gt4.6]

Big progress today!

Mustang camshaft installation:



http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_090520_zpsi0sj053d.jp g


http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_090540_zpsp0scszhu.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_091455_zpspcba0v3a.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_092905_zpso5es1v1j.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_093035_zpschnlxysn.jp g

Still posting, hold tight....

[96gt4.6]

The F150 engine uses a lower volume oil pump. I tried to illustrate this without separating the pumps, but the rotor is much thinner on the F150. I cross checked every single part number on the F150 vs. Mustang engine, the only differences are Pistons, Intake Cams, Oil Pump, Intake (Color only, volume and flow same), and crankshaft (different balance due to pistons, same material and HP capabilities).

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_094046_zpsdacww4di.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_094405_zpsl2otrudq.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_094958_zpstsr5ccid.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_101637_zps9vvwxzji.jp g

Still More to come.....

[96gt4.6]

I forgot to mention, the F150 timing cover is also different. To use the Power By The Hour accessory kit, you have to change the cover. 2 reasons, 1-the standoff for the idiler above the alt isn't there on the F150, 2-The Mustang oil filter adapter/housing won't work with the F150:

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_102139_zpsh6jzfbwo.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_105518_zpsvafv3add.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_114744_zps2pkt4iwo.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_114756_zpsq4s5gjha.jp g

More....

[96gt4.6]

Factory Mustang gasket with windage tray:

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_115114_zpsdq0sttfp.jp g

PBH Kit:

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_122845_zpsxymypwo2.jp g

Here's a nugget of gold. EVERYTHING required to convert an F150 motor to a Mustang spec motor less headers and pistons:

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_125942_zps1fg7b61z.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_150207_zpsfkbhf1xo.jp g

More....

[96gt4.6]

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_150236_zps7umhsttu.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_152104_zpsrr6l5nyc.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_181143_zps6neq4amk.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_213819_zpsqkrjlv4u.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_213835_zpseg823ayn.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_213851_zpshql1oj4r.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150801_213857_zpswg27bnkj.jp g

[8UWITH6]

Very nice. More pics, more better. Love it!

[Seneca]

Very kewl! Looks good!

[BigM460]

Is it just me, or does this engine setting in place induce smiling!?:D

[MOTOWN]

Looks good! it was just a matter of time before someone blazed this trail.

[Mebot]

This is pure awesome man

Can't stop the signal...

[CameronVic]

You're an animal man!

[Joe Walsh]

Very cool!
No clearance/interference problems with the 6 speed trans?

BTW: Neat shot of the piston oil squirters!
They will come in handy once you throw the boost at the motor.
IIRC they deleted them on the 420 HP Mustang Coyote...not sure why.

[Bad_S55]

I'm seriously tempted to drive down to Kansas just to see this in person!!!

[hotford]

nice work indeed!!!!!!!!!

[lifespeed]

BTW: Neat shot of the piston oil squirters!
They will come in handy once you throw the boost at the motor.
IIRC they deleted them on the 420 HP Mustang Coyote...not sure why.

Sustained load versus brief bursts of speed? Reciprocating weight ( oil, not the squirters)?

[BeeDamn]

Nice Work Sir! Keep the good work!

[jaydees]

I believe there may be a road trip from KC to Great Bend in my near future. This is a cool build.

[96gt4.6]

Again, thank you ALL for your continued support and kind words. I'm not claiming to be the best fabricator and builder out there by any means, just do these types of things as a hobby on the weekends.

And, I've got quite the surprise for you all! I did a 4 minute video tour of the build at the end of the work day today. As soon as the link is live on YouTube, I will post it. Those of you that have subscribed to me, you should get a notification once it's processed.

ALMOST down to the wiring! I'm pretty much onto plumbing/shifter cable/trans cooler lines and air intake.

I was contacted by Lund Racing, and they confirmed, if HP doesn't crack my PCM, they are fully capable and ready for my ECU. Guys, this baby will run, it's a fact.

Time to kick back for the rest of this Sunday and relax. More updates through the week as progression continues!

[96gt4.6]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4oGbE_3MS4

[RubberCtyRauder]

Can't wait til it's fired up and can hear it and your driving impressions! Great work!

[walt460]

First, again, amazing work and great info and photos!

Very seriously watching progress on removing PATS from your PCM. I have heard a lot of claims, but I have yet to see anyone do it and keep all the other factory PCM functionality. Please keep us posted.

Walt

[massacre]

Great thread.
Did you put that motor in with the wiper cowl and the radiator cover in place?
lol
Great job OP nice work!

[Zack]

This swap is incredibly simple

[96gt4.6]

Great thread.
Did you put that motor in with the wiper cowl and the radiator cover in place?
lol
Great job OP nice work!

Correct, there was no need to remove the cowl/radiator or cover for both the O.E. motor removal or installation of the Coyote.

Indeed Zach, thus far it's been fairly straight forward.

I anticipate most of the swap magic to be in the electrical work. Seems that's where many struggle, and I will admit, this one will be a fun one. Older car's such as these Marauders never really have used much HS or MS CAN network data to run things, whereas the Coyote setup utilizes some very complex network architecture, to most.

As of late, i've yet to see anyone incorporate the factory steering wheel cruise controls, and all factory gauges with the Coyote swap. Part of the reason, is almost all of that data is sent over the CAN and not hard-pinned out of the ECU. The Coyote has a CTO (Clean Tach Out) Pin, and the cruise is hard wired into the ECU on Mustang applications (not F150 which uses an SCCM - Steering Column Control Module, through MS CAN to the BCM, then on the HS CAN to the PCM). I believe most of the complications will come in wiring the AC System, as the AC Request is sent via MS and HS CAN to the ECU to kick up idle and engage the clutch.

I have a viable solution i'm going to incorporate and see how it works.

But, other then that, you are very correct, so far it's been very simple. NOT as simple as the LS swap (mainly due to space constraints), HOWEVER I believe the end results, boost v. boost, will be greater with the Ford from what i'm seeing, in addition to having qualities in the motor (piston cooling jets) that will support a boosted application.

Getting closer to the finish line!

[TooManyFords]

This swap is incredibly simple

You need to do this too! <grin>

[myrodr]

WOW !!! Super glad you are letting all of us in to see this build.

[solo5057]

man that's one cool marauder!!! I can't wait to see it run!!! and it looks like it come that way.

[walt460]

I agree that the Electronics/wiring will be the most difficult aspect of this build. Even if you get someone to turn off the EPATS system, the 2011 PCM is looking for 10 other modules on the CAN bus and if they are not there, the PCM not only sets codes and displays warnings, it can limit operation in some modes.

[96gt4.6]

^ Correct walt.

Luckily, with the advancements HP Tuners has made on the subject, that is no longer an issue.

All of the codes for the IPC/BCM/ect can be disabled and the module can run standalone. This is the same thing the FRPP control pack does. They use a stock ECU with programming setup to ignore the modules that are no longer present.

Here is a screenshot from the FRPP computer, showing how it's disabled. It's the same as what we do with our LS computes we use when we do our swaps:

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/Screenshot%202015-08-03%2015.25.24_zpskwtw07xi.png

So far, all that's left as far as electrical issues on paper that I can think of are my A/C request input, and VSS output from the ECU. Cruise control, Fuel Pump Control, ect I've got jived out.

Lund Racing has committed to disabling the EPATS on my computer if HPT doesn't come through. Waiting on them to get back to me on the progress currently.

[1stMerc]

How will all of this turning off/disabling pan out when it comes time for the annual ritual?

[96gt4.6]

^ you're going to have to be more specific then that....

[rauder88]

^ you're going to have to be more specific then that....

I think he is referring to emissions testing, annual inspections.

[96gt4.6]

Ah ok!

Kansas is a non emissions state fortunately!

[BigM460]

Ah ok!

Kansas is a non emissions state fortunately!

Some of us still live in the American parts of the United States!:) Not the liberal bastions that take ALL liberty. :(

[Mr. Man]

I haven't been following this thread as religiously as some but I'm impressed with your progress. Hope the electrical conundrums work out smoothly for you. Looking forward to start-up.

[walt460]

In Clark County Nevada, where I live, they plug into the ODDII port and their computer runs a system health check looking for any codes that relate to engine/emission performance (misfires, missing devices, etc.) As long as the PCM will run the "engine running" diagnostic routine with no codes, and the "Check engine" light works when commanded, you pass. Of course there are visual checks for non-factory equipment and the presence of Cat convertors, EGR, etc.

[96gt4.6]

In Clark County Nevada, where I live, they plug into the ODDII port and their computer runs a system health check looking for any codes that relate to engine/emission performance (misfires, missing devices, etc.) As long as the PCM will run the "engine running" diagnostic routine with no codes, and the "Check engine" light works when commanded, you pass. Of course there are visual checks for non-factory equipment and the presence of Cat convertors, EGR, etc.

Got ya.

How it works when you disable these codes in the ECU, they literally never set. Once that box is unchecked and the MIL status is set to off, it's like they never exist. As you can see by the trouble codes in these screen shots, there are codes for the Hybrid vehicles as well, but they are set to disabled. This is because like a video game cartridge, the actual hardware on the circuit boards is nearly the same for all PCM's, it's simply a matter of what programming is put onto them. This allows multiple vehicles to be ran with one ECU, just change the programming.

for instance, on our LS computers, we have to disable the missfire monitor during idle (due to came lope). When those tables are setup proper, and the codes disabled proper, the ECU reports back that all monitors have ran an passes related to the missfire monitor.

The same process goes for the catalyst monitor, ect.

This is why, there is a HUGE disclaimer in the code disabling section of HP, that clearly states skirting emission laws with the software is forbidden and can be punishable by law.

Being in Kansas, none of this applies.

I can tell you though, that a few of my last vehicles went to emission states, with one being California. The truck in California was stock less a performance tune and the owner removed the catalysts (however he simply gutted the stock catalyst housing and re-welded the pipe so it passes visual inspection), and passes a sniffer test and California certification. The LS's are known to be very clean burning so it doesn't surprise me he was able to without cats honestly.

But, back to the original discussion about the ECU not having all those other modules there, it's not a problem. Other than the EPATS, the ECU doesn't care about the other modules once the communication codes are disabled. The main reason those modules are networked to the PCM, is so the PCM can feed them engine data such as RPM, temperatures, ect. This is how the clusters work on modern cars, the ecu shares all that data on the network and modules pick up what they need and display it.

GOOD NEWS TODAY!!!

Eric emailed me, my PCM is on the way back, WITH the EPATS system disabled, and verified capable of running stand-alone!

I know i'm capable of the wiring side of things, so you will get to see a running Coyote here within the next 2 to 3 weeks depending on how hard I hit it.

:banana::banana::banana::banan a::banana::banana::banana:

[96gt4.6]

Some of us still live in the American parts of the United States!:) Not the liberal bastions that take ALL liberty. :(

Amen to that sir!

Although, i'm sure it's a matter of time before the grip of the EPA extends to all of us :(

[walt460]

Can't wait to see if HP process to delete pats works. That has been a big roadblock to a lot of us wanting to go 5.0L Coyote/6R80 retro-fit.

Walt

[96gt4.6]

^ that's two of us Walt! And I agree, we simply won't know until I get everything wired up and fire (or attempt) to do it.

I can tell you that Lund Racing does currently do EPATS delete, and there are several 6R80/F150 swaps they've tuned, some are over on the svtperformance.com forum.

As a backup to my next process, I had contacted them. They were awaiting my ECU if HP couldn't do it, however they require that you let them tune it with their tune (not an issue to me really) in order to do the EPATS delete.

Their price, $500.

Still pretty reasonable I think, compared to the FRPP setup which can't run an auto.

[96gt4.6]

8300 views on this thread as of this post.....we sure have some attention going!

Got the shifter cable hooked up, ended up using the stock 6R80 shifter bracket as the Marauder cable snaps right into it. It did however, require the shifter arm on the trans to be modified, as well as the trans cable bracket to be re drilled and modified. The Marauder cable is slightly longer from the bracket snap to the cable end attachment point, as well as the arch for the gear selection is slightly different. After the said modifications, the stock cable and shifter work great!

Got most of the smalls ordered (AN fittings/heater hose ends/misc). Setting up for a BIG push this Sunday. I'm hoping to have most of the small's finished up so we can hit that wiring like a boss the weekend of the 15th.

I'm hoping by the end of the month, to fire her up!

I will be posting a video update Sunday evening.

somebody get the bottle of bubbly ready, almost time to pop that cork!

[ctrlraven]

8300 views on this thread as of this post.....we sure have some attention going!

Got the shifter cable hooked up, ended up using the stock 6R80 shifter bracket as the Marauder cable snaps right into it. It did however, require the shifter arm on the trans to be modified, as well as the trans cable bracket to be re drilled and modified. The Marauder cable is slightly longer from the bracket snap to the cable end attachment point, as well as the arch for the gear selection is slightly different. After the said modifications, the stock cable and shifter work great!

Got most of the smalls ordered (AN fittings/heater hose ends/misc). Setting up for a BIG push this Sunday. I'm hoping to have most of the small's finished up so we can hit that wiring like a boss the weekend of the 15th.

I'm hoping by the end of the month, to fire her up!

I will be posting a video update Sunday evening.

somebody get the bottle of bubbly ready, almost time to pop that cork!
Many have talked about doing a Coyote 5.0 in their MM and so far you are the only one to actually take action and get shyt done.

I applaud you sir.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Rf_ScxslLm0/TimMl3qKJAI/AAAAAAAAjF8/_CbY2TAzYFw/w426-h320/oie_22164254iWzfT9JX.gif

[96gt4.6]

^ Thank you sir!

I'm all about sharing with the car community, which is the purpose of this thread, as well as my Turbo Vic thread on CV.net. It's how I got started, by the kindness of others in my original builds, and repaying the favor is only right. After the completion of this project, i'll probably see if the Admin's will allow a new thread to be started, which will consist of all pictures, and a write up summary of the process start to finish. It won't be a step-by-step how-to, but will detail the process close enough for those that wish to follow.

[345HP87SSAC]

How about rides when it is done? Will that be part of the sharing? Keep it up.

[96gt4.6]

If you're in the area when I'm out and about, sure!

We rolled 4 guys deep in the Vic all the time having fun. This was probably 5k weight with 4 passengers, out having a good time!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OhtVCBeVxw

[jwibbity]

You have got to bring that thing to Louisville next year!!

Damn 11 hours is a bit much.....

[Bad_S55]

Hot Rod made a list of DIY Hellcat killer projects, and Panthers made it on the list. If this isn't the perfect example of a Hellcat killing Panther, can't tell ya what is. Once you get this wrapped up, if you don't send a story about this into Hot Rod Magazine, I will!!

[8UWITH6]

You have got to bring that thing to Louisville next year!!

Damn 11 hours is a bit much.....

We drive 10 plus. Zero given. Great time, great people, great cars.

[chief455]

Hot Rod made a list of DIY Hellcat killer projects, and Panthers made it on the list. If this isn't the perfect example of a Hellcat killing Panther, can't tell ya what is. Once you get this wrapped up, if you don't send a story about this into Hot Rod Magazine, I will!!
link to this list?

[chief455]

^ Thank you sir!

I'm all about sharing with the car community, which is the purpose of this thread, as well as my Turbo Vic thread on CV.net. It's how I got started, by the kindness of others in my original builds, and repaying the favor is only right. After the completion of this project, i'll probably see if the Admin's will allow a new thread to be started, which will consist of all pictures, and a write up summary of the process start to finish. It won't be a step-by-step how-to, but will detail the process close enough for those that wish to follow.
This will be the fresh mown lawn.....many will want to follow! :beer:

[BeeDamn]

+++Million on this ^^^^^

[MarauderMatt200]

*just impateintly waiting for more pics and progress*

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

*just impateintly waiting for me pics and progress*

Same.///////

[sailsmen]

If you're in the area when I'm out and about, sure!

We rolled 4 guys deep in the Vic all the time having fun. This was probably 5k weight with 4 passengers, out having a good time!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OhtVCBeVxw

When you get killed or kill somebody will the vid get posted?

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65199

[solo5057]

man that was a really sad story!!!! sailsman. sure does make you think about slowing down life is short.. I sold a friend of mine a marauder he crashed the first week took a light pole. he got lucky!!! these cars aren't toys!!!

[jwibbity]

and here comes buzz killington again....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[8UWITH6]

We all make choices every day that can possibly get us or others killed. We also sometimes don't get to make the choice because someone else made the wrong decision for us or near us. It is a fact of life. With that said..................... Coyote Swap Marauder thread onward. Just sayin'

[96gt4.6]

When you get killed or kill somebody will the vid get posted?

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65199

In light of this post, I also need to remember that i'm posting to an open community here, and some aspects of my builds and activities that occur need to be masked from sharing, it seems.


I will refrain from posting such items from this post forward, in respect to the above link'd thread, and the fact that some aspects of what activities I do, should remain personal it seems.

Now, today's progress.

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150809_190720_zps22herbgi.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150809_190733_zpstvkvnwkc.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150809_190808_zpstpkoto1w.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150809_190838_zpsqne5auia.jp g

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/The%20Marauder/20150809_190849_zpsv5yazjc3.jp g

I didn't get quite as far today as I anticipated, but came very close. The radiator hoses turned out to be very easy, 1 trip to the parts store and browsing the hose wall, and I was able to select the proper ones, which surprisingly required little to no modification.

The lower hose uses 1/2 of the original Marauder hose.

All that's left is the fuel system, which I need to install the return style hanger/Walbro 255 in tank, and the vette filter/regulator combination.

I should be onto wiring by next weekend, which was my original goal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTjXJENVxFw

[Bad_S55]

A little chill just went down my spine when I saw that engine in the bay!

[Marauderjack]

Very nice work.......kudos!!:beer: Looks like it fits better than the OEM 4V!!:cool:

Anxiously awaiting the first startup!!:D

[96gt4.6]

Thanks guys!

Just for those wondering, the tally is currently at $6,300.00 on the Coyote/6R80 Swap. That includes offset from selling the original motor. That is all inclusive to date, every nut/bolt and fuel for trips to the hardware store/ect are all factored in.

I have a detailed cost list going that I will compile once the project is completed.

For reference, NOT using the 6r80 would have saved $1,000 for the trans, $900 for the driveshaft and the misc fittings. HOWEVER, it would have necessitated a $800 aftermarket controller for the 4R70W.

This total also includes buying everything to convert the F150 engine to Mustang specs less the pistons.

I don't anticipate many additional expenses at this point. I believe in materials I'm within $500, give/take, before we are up and running N/A.

[Zack]

Why not build the fuel system once in prep for the turbo?

[96gt4.6]

Why not build the fuel system once in prep for the turbo?

I'm using an in-tank 255 Walbro, which I know will get to 550 RWHP without a booster on Race Gas (same setup used on my Turbo Vic).

My plan, as of now, is to use a Boost a Pump on the 255 once we start going with the Turbo and higher boost levels, or modify the hanger for twin in tank setup.

Unfortunately the car will not be setup for Ethanol at this time, due to lack of availability in this area (corn country, go figure???). I always run race gas when I turn them up, and 91 pump for daily use.

[Zack]

I don't understand why an a Walbro 460 wouldn't be installed right off the bat....
:confused:

[96gt4.6]

I don't understand why an a Walbro 460 wouldn't be installed right off the bat....
:confused:


It is actually a very valid point!

Considering the cost of the 460 v the 255 is pennies, honestly I can't say I even put thought into it....most likely because when I ordered the fuel system stuff I was on auto pilot from past builds.

Noted, and I'll change it out when the time comes to feed this girl some compressed Kansas air!

Thanks!

[Fastbob]

No E-85 in Great Bend? Don't feel bad as there is none in Pratt either.

[96gt4.6]

It's crazy! Being in the middle of corn country, with Ethanol plants everywhere....and the nearest pump is 1 hour away. We used to have 3 stations here in town when they were really pushing E85 about 6 years ago.

[Fastbob]

It's crazy! Being in the middle of corn country, with Ethanol plants everywhere....and the nearest pump is 1 hour away. We used to have 3 stations here in town when they were really pushing E85 about 6 years ago.I know, here at work I am sitting 2 miles from the ethanol plant here and no E-85 to be found.

[96gt4.6]

That is truly nutz! I always see the plant when I get down that way, yet nothing in Pratt! Craziness I tell ya.

[96gt4.6]

The CAI components showed up yesterday. Still working on making it to the wiring this weekend. I need to install the fuel tank hanger/pump, filter and do the plumbing as well as fabricate the CAI. Hopefully, buy late Sunday I will have the wiring well under way.

[lifespeed]

The CAI components showed up yesterday. Still working on making it to the wiring this weekend. I need to install the fuel tank hanger/pump, filter and do the plumbing as well as fabricate the CAI. Hopefully, buy late Sunday I will have the wiring well under way.

I guess the OBDII port in the car is long obsolete compared to the Coyote PCM? What will you do for this?

[96gt4.6]

I guess the OBDII port in the car is long obsolete compared to the Coyote PCM? What will you do for this?

Actually that's not true.

All modern vehicles utilize the same OBD II port. It's a standard since '96, with some manufacturers starting a few years earlier.

So, it's as simple as wiring the Coyote's CAN network wires into the existing OBD II port on the Marauder, which involves adding in two pins on the existing OBD II connector.

When they designed the OBD II standard, they accounted for expansion. Older vehicles typically use only 3 wires of the 16 slots on the OBD II port, that usage has grown over the years with the addition of HS/MS CAN, SCP, LIN networks in vehicles.

Luckily, the Marauder is old enough, the CAN BUS pin slots are vacant, so, add in the pins for the Coyote ECU, and leave the rest be. Everything will remain functional via the stock OBD II port, on both the Marauder (VAPS/Air Suspension, Climate Control, Cluster), yet you can still have full engine diagnostic and 2012 Coyote computer communication on the same OBD 2 port.

My Vic was the same, used the stock OBD port the car came with to read/write and datalog the LS ECU.

Good question!

[lifespeed]

Do any necessary functions remain in the stock ECU? It sounds like there do not, and you could remove or disconnect it.

[96gt4.6]

Do any necessary functions remain in the stock ECU? It sounds like there do not, and you could remove or disconnect it.

You are entirely correct sir.

The stock ECU becomes completely inoperative. On my Vic, I left the stock ECU in it's stock location, along with leaving the stock ECU connector, for visual purposes.

On this swap, the Coyote mounting flange/face looks VERY much like the outgoing Marauder ECU/Firewall adapter plate. If this is so, I'm going to mount the Coyote ECU in the stock location.

Now, it gets more complicated on 2005+ Panthers.....as the stock ECU plays a MUCH bigger part in the picture, they rely heavily on network sharing of engine data/ect, so it would be a MUCH more complicated swap without using aftermarket gauges, ect. And, there would probably be more non functional items in the car.

Luckily, up to 2004, all cluster inputs are hardwired to the respective engine sensors. And, the Variable assist/Air Ride module only require a VSS input which is shared to the Cluster for speedo operation.

I will achieve that through the use of a Dakota digital signal inverter tied into the OSS sensor on the trans, or alternatively by tying it into one of the 4 wheel speed sensors and modifying the pulse value to correct the speedo via the Dakota digital SGI-5 box. I've used this box in the past for LS swaps and it works beautifully!

[Drewstang]

Subscribing. This has been in the back of my mind since I sold my Marauder a few years ago. Glad to see you're making great progress.

[96gt4.6]

I recently had a PM asking for the full part# list for the parts used to convert the F150 motor to Mustang specs less pistons/intake/crankshaft. Here are the part numbers.

BR3Z-6881-M - OIL FILTER ADAPTER <---YOU CAN RE-USE THE F150 BOLTS FOR THIS ITEM, THEY ARE THE SAME PART #. YOU WILL ALSO NEED THE NIPPLE, I LOST THE BAG AND HENCE THE PART #
BR3Z-6600-A - OIL PUMP
W707288-S437 - IDILER PULLEY SCREW
BR3Z-6019-G - MUSTANG TIMING COVER - LATER DESIGN WITH A/C TENSIONER PROVISION
BR3Z-6710-A - OIL PAN GASKET W/WINDAGE TRAY
BR3Z-6250-F - INTAKE CAMSHAFT
BR3Z-6250-E - INTAKE CAMSHAFT
BR3Z-8678-A - IDILER PULLEY


Slap an air filter on this baby and we're doing some wiring this weekend:

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20150813_123349_zpstitlbfik.jp g

[Bad_S55]

Now, it gets more complicated on 2005+ Panthers.....as the stock ECU plays a MUCH bigger part in the picture, they rely heavily on network sharing of engine data/ect, so it would be a MUCH more complicated swap without using aftermarket gauges, ect. And, there would probably be more non functional items in the car.

I guess this could work out for me since I'm working on putting a custom aftermarket gauge cluster in my car, I don't have air ride, a compass, digital climate control, or any of the other goodies. Woo hoo for the 2005 base model!

[justbob]

Kickin some major ass right here! Good work!


Builder Of Badassery

[Joe Walsh]

Slap an air filter on this baby and we're doing some wiring this weekend:

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20150813_123349_zpstitlbfik.jp g

This picture is like automotive Viagra!!

There might be hope for putting another modular engine in my Marauder!!
Up until this thread, I was stuck in Maryland's Emission testing hell along with my wounded big bore 5.0L.

[96gt4.6]

Finally on to my favorite part, wiring and factory gauge integration. Less the wiring chase and looms, here's how the Coyote looks under the hood of a Marauder in my version:

http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q651/Alan_Ledesma/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08/20150813_201218_zpskdytcvi5.jp g

[GoldPanther]

Impressive and awesome!!! Can't wait to see it running!

just for curiosity I have a question, Do you think it's possible to install a 6R80 in a panther all by itself? since the PCM commands both engine and trans how could it be possible to make it work accordingly to the engine?

[96gt4.6]

At this point in time, I don't believe there is an aftermarket controller for the 6R80. You would need to use a factory ECU which would necessitate using the matching engine combo with it.

I'm sure though that in time, someone will make an aftermarket controller so that it could be used behind older engine combinations. It's a great trans, tough as nails in stock trim and can be bolted behind older Modulars.

[PHHHHTT]

If any member here has a contact with anyone with the Ford Motor Company Engineering/Product Development Departments, send them a note to view this thread! They need to see what is being done!