Stallion Converter owners: [Archive] - MercuryMarauder.net Forums

frdwrnch

05-06-2004, 06:38 PM

Now that some of you have had some seat time w/the stallion PI converters please give me some feedback as I am planning some trans upgrades and am considering this as well. Specifically I am wondering about chatter at Idle, driveability in stop and go traffic,impact on trans temp, fuel economy, and any other feedback related to this mod. Thanks.

sailsmen

05-06-2004, 06:42 PM

I have the PI TC and Reinhart Trans upgrade.

No idle chatter. About 20% of the 1-2 shifts under lite throttle are hard.

No driveability issues.

BillyGman

05-06-2004, 11:30 PM

I haven't any transmission upgrades, and as soon as I got the stallion converter in there, I took it to the track as well as up on the highway w/the G-meter and I gained a .70 sec ET reduction as a result!!! I have the stall speed set at 3000 RPM's and it's a good mod. I've never had any problems with it. precision industries as well known as having the best torque converters around from what I've heard.

There are no drivability issues at all w/this converter on dry pavement nor in the snow or rain. I drove my car a good 8,000 miles since the installation, which includes three snow storms, and it's performed fine in the snow, rain, and dry pavement on the street as well as at the dragstrip.

The precision Industries website tells you all about their Stallion converters, and they claim that as long as you don't go higher than a 3000 RPM stall speed, there will be no heat related issues w/your transmission. I had the Reinhart chip on my car which made the transmission shift pretty good, however I noticed that the shifts soften up a lot after putting the high stall speed stallion converter on. But now that I have the chip burned by lidio of Alternative Automotive which came w/the Trilogy blower kit, I've noticed that the transmission shifts harder now like it used to evn though i still have the stallion converter in the car. Below is a link to the precision Industries website. When you get there, just click on the "Stallion" link at the top......

www.converter.com

SergntMac

05-07-2004, 06:58 AM

FWIW...I've owned both the single plate in my first MM and the triple plate in my present MM, and only the triple plate "chatters." I've noticed the chatter only from under the car while on a lift or above ground dyno, and only while in neutral or park. PI says the chatter is normal, and stems from the free floating plate.

BUCKWHEAT

05-07-2004, 06:30 PM

In several thousand miles, the shift remains firm and 1/8 improved from 9.47 to 9.32. Drivability is fine, wife doesn't notice a difference, except the car will roll backward when stopped on a hill. No noises.

BillyGman

05-07-2004, 07:25 PM

I think that the case of the car rolling backwards on an inclined surface if it didn't do that before probably has something to do w/the idle being a bit slower than it was before for some reason. If you had a chip burned for you, or one re-burned, then can it be that atleast 50 or 100 less RPM's at idle was dialed in than it was before???

merc

05-07-2004, 07:52 PM

frdwrnch

05-07-2004, 08:49 PM

Thanks for the help guys, I'm installing a heavy duty one way clutch, spiral lock clip, forced lube tailshaft housing and deep finned pan and this may be the time to do this trans upgrade as well.

cyclone03

05-08-2004, 08:05 AM

My only concern about the stallion torque converter is a slight slipping sensation while in OD cruising between 50 and 60 miles per hour at low RPM’s. I don’t know if this is the converter stalling or locking in and out. I am not an expert on this mechanical behavior. I just recently had my transmission re-built and now it feels much different then before. I have not been able to create a base line for the converter performance due to all the shop time I experienced in the last month. One thing I can tell you I can really feel the difference and high recommend this modification.

:pimp:
This is the ONLY complaint I have with the converter.

How can I describe this......

With the trans in OD at speeds below 80 (thats as fast as I've noticed this)
when your driving a steedy pace then "tip" the throttle slightly,maybe just adjusting your speed, then "lift" to slow the converter unlocks then when you reapply "light" throttle the RPM jumps about 800rpm then resumes correct RPM for road speed.
This happens EVERTIME the car coast in OD,up/down slight hills anytime the drive train is unloaded the converter unlocks,then the rpm jumps when the throttle is tipped back in.
This also happens with the cruise control on,I noticed this last weekend.

If you tend to "point and shoot" in traffic this wil drive you nuts,evertime time the throttle is lifted the converter unlocks.

First thing I'm going to do in INDY is find Jerry and get the Conveter lock up to stay in longer in OD.

I would suggest turning the OD off any time the converter unlocks in OD.I've noticed doing this does not change the engine RPM at all over an unlocked TC in OD.When accelerating,not steedy speeds.

BillyGman

05-09-2004, 03:03 PM

It is my understanding and according to what I've been told that the only reason that you don't notice that going on w/the stock converter is simply because the stallion converter locks-up harder than most others do. I find that easy to believe since precision Industries is the only torque converter company that even mentiones torque multiplication ratio #'s and that their converter supplies better torque multiplication simply measured by a 2.53:1 ratio as compared to moist other converters providing a 1.92:1 ratio. And I think that's gotta be the straight scoop seing is how they grantee that the Stallion will reduce your ET by atleast .50 seconds, and infact it reduced mine by .70 seconds.

the point I'm making is that this is a performance oriented converter, and it simply locks-up harder than the stock one did which is one of the reasons why it makes your car faster (another one being the higher stall speed). So that's why you're gonna notice a difference in the way the car cruises. It isn't any major problem as far as I'm concerned, and I barely notice it anymore.

I think it's a matter of either having a slower car w/a smoother O/D lock-up, or a faster car w/a harder lock-up. I'll take the harder Lock-up myself.

martyo

05-09-2004, 04:39 PM

This is the ONLY complaint I have with the converter.

How can I describe this......

With the trans in OD at speeds below 80 (thats as fast as I've noticed this)
when your driving a steedy pace then "tip" the throttle slightly,maybe just adjusting your speed, then "lift" to slow the converter unlocks then when you reapply "light" throttle the RPM jumps about 800rpm then resumes correct RPM for road speed.
This happens EVERTIME the car coast in OD,up/down slight hills anytime the drive train is unloaded the converter unlocks,then the rpm jumps when the throttle is tipped back in.
This also happens with the cruise control on,I noticed this last weekend.

If you tend to "point and shoot" in traffic this wil drive you nuts,evertime time the throttle is lifted the converter unlocks.

First thing I'm going to do in INDY is find Jerry and get the Conveter lock up to stay in longer in OD.

I would suggest turning the OD off any time the converter unlocks in OD.I've noticed doing this does not change the engine RPM at all over an unlocked TC in OD.When accelerating,not steedy speeds.

Lance: Thius is the way my car reacted as well. I then had my chip reprogrammed exactly as you suggested here and the problem resolved. If you would like to try my chip in your car, let me know and I will send you my chip so you can demo it.

Glenn

05-09-2004, 05:23 PM

I just installed my 4:10 gears and PI TC and I am very pleased with the results. I do not have the OD locking/unlocking issue that was described earlier. The car runs 99% the same as the stock TC in a non-performance mode. It is difficult to even notice the TC except when you nail the gas. The only problem is my speed is off since I did not get the PCM flashed to correct for the gears.

WHEN is Jerry W. coming to Atlanta to do another dyno-tune flash??? Does anyone know??

Glenn

martyo

05-09-2004, 05:36 PM

WHEN is Jerry W. coming to Atlanta to do another dyno-tune flash??? Does anyone know??

Why not just go see the boys at Team Ford?

MM03MOK

05-09-2004, 05:46 PM

WHEN is Jerry W. coming to Atlanta to do another dyno-tune flash??? Does anyone know?? Come to Indy!

At IRP, we'll have Jerry Wroblewski and SCT on hand to provide free flash tunes for MM owners. He'll do full dyno tunes for MM owners at reduced cost. You can get instant results in your next 1/4 mile pass, or, get your RWHP and RWTQ numbers on a dyno report. Hey...Get both?

CRUZTAKER

07-04-2004, 10:22 AM

I didn't want to start a new thread, so I searched for the best place to post, and found this thread appropriate. I have to share my enthusiasm.:rolleyes:

I test drove my car today...I mean really test drove my car today, after having the stallion 3000 t/c installed.

OMFG!!!! This is by far the biggest transformation in driving experience yet. I am not supercharged...yet...but I learned the harsh way that I can lay a smokie patch over 100 feet just like Billy's video! And oddly, through ALL gears till 3rd hits the limiter. It's freakin' crazy!!!:baaa:

The power is magically transported to the wheels like I have only experienced in a trilogy car....if I could hang my head out the window and make that magic whistling sound, I'd swear I had one.

Tuesday I'm off to the track...and by god, I WILL break that stupid 13.7 mark I've been hung up on for so long.:coolman:

BillyGman

07-04-2004, 11:08 AM

Barry, congrats on your new mod. When it comes to burnouts and better acceleration, I agree. The Stallion converter is a good addition for performance. My car left some good rubber after installing the Stallion, but not like it does now w/the Roots type S/Cer. As far as your car, I don't know how in the world you ran a 13.7 sec ET w/the stock converter unless it was in 30 degree weather. And from what you've told me, it wasn't.

I sure wish that for the sake of other members here, you would re-consider listing your mods in your signature. I'm sure it would help them. As for me, sure, I'm curious, but I'm pretty well satisfied w/how my car moves. 12.2 ET's are fine w/me.

CRUZTAKER

07-04-2004, 11:18 AM

Hey Billy...any kudos from you are a blessing....:bows:

And BTW: All my mods are in the WTFISIT GARAGE link in my sig. :up:

All my good runs were done when the engine was cool...ie., temp guage on the 10mph mark. I ran the same et's in 59 degrees as I did in 81 degrees....however, the cooler air easily knocks 2-3 tenths off the time. It's the increasing trap speeds that really indicate the issues at hand. I hit nearly 104mph now. I am slowly taking a set of pirelli 245's down to slicks. They still have about 3/32's on them, and they perform better every time.

BillyGman

07-04-2004, 11:22 AM

Oh, okay Barry. let us know what ET's you run w/the new converter. It should be interesting.

Joe Walsh

07-04-2004, 11:26 AM

OOOPS! Did I buy the wrong converter? I just got (not installed yet) an
Art Carr high stall 2800-3000rpm Converter. I went with Art Carr because
most of the guys running automatic modular motors at the drag strip had
Art Carr converters and loved them. Usually they were getting .5-.75 sec
ET reductions. Is the PI Stallion a better 'mousetrap'?

CRUZTAKER

07-04-2004, 11:28 AM

Sorry...Logan has the GARAGE out of service at this time...and I did not save a backup.

67435animal

07-04-2004, 03:01 PM

I installed the converter right before a 2500 mile trip. My gas mileage dropped slightly from 23-24 to 22-23 so no big deal.

However, the converter behaved in a way that I did not like at all. When I eased up on the throttle RPMs would drop to around 1000 and then move upand down between 1000-1500. A little throttle would solve the problem.

When I used the cruised the converter would cut in and out when the car was going down an incline. It was very disturbing.

The solution was a custom dyno tune by Arik at Team Ford. Not only did he increase my HP and torque, the transmission shifts crisply, no more strange behavoir. Also, he set my car to shift into OD only above 50MPH. I love it.

I recommend the torque converter upgrade to anyone who wants better shifts but I would not do it unless you're prepared to invest in a SuperChips custom tune (and the tuner).

I am very pleased with the final result.

Bob

Murader03

07-04-2004, 05:54 PM

I had mone installed by Dennis when he did the tranny upgrade. These two mods gave a much harder 1-2 shift then I really like and I might have this toned down some during the tune at Indy. I made the 1000 mile trip home and enjoyed the two upgrades immensely. I also gained a slight increase in MPG of about 10-15%. Befor the TC upgrade, I was barely getting 19 to 19.3 on the road. After the mods, I got 21-22 MPG on the trip back. I just finished a marathon trip from home to Pensacola, Fl, and back with 32 hours driving time round trip. While I was at the wheel, the car was well above the legal limit. I haven't checked the MPG yet, but will tomorrow. All in all, I pleased with the investment......

TripleTransAm

07-04-2004, 06:34 PM

However, the converter behaved in a way that I did not like at all. When I eased up on the throttle RPMs would drop to around 1000 and then move upand down between 1000-1500. A little throttle would solve the problem.

When I used the cruised the converter would cut in and out when the car was going down an incline. It was very disturbing.

Bob, I don't believe this is a problem with the converter itself. My totally stock '03 MM does this in a particular scenario... exactly 60 kph (~38 mph) while going down an incline with OD off. The RPMs are initially low and then all of a sudden as I cross 60 kph on deceleration the RPMs begin to oscillate between 1000-1500 RPM, all by itself.

This appears to go on indefinitely, as the 1500 RPM bursts are enough to compensate for the 1000 RPM deceleration... so the car hovers at 60 kph, and the RPMs are oscillating and oscillating. Until I get back on the gas and move beyond the speed, or brake below it.

Very annoying. Can't believe a big car company can release a car to the general public with programming like this...

67435animal

07-04-2004, 07:40 PM

Steve, you're right. It is the software that causes it. As I said, mine was fixed as soon as I got the custom tune.

Bob

BillyGman

07-05-2004, 11:59 AM

OOOPS! Did I buy the wrong converter? I just got (not installed yet) an
Art Carr high stall 2800-3000rpm Converter. Is the PI Stallion a better 'mousetrap'?
All I can tell you Joe, is that the serious performance guys that I've spoken to have nothing but good to say about Precision Industries and their converters. They seem to be well known. And installing the Stallion in my Marauder gave me a .70 ET reduction. As I've stated before, the Precision Industries company is the only one that I've ever seen that lists exactly what the torque multiplication RATIO number is w/their converter. I haven't noticed any other converter company that even states what there's is. Yes, they all talk about having better "Torque Multiplication" but they don't list what the ratio is. P.I. does, and that noteworthy IMO. Their site is here www.converter.com (http://www.converter.com)

Logan

07-05-2004, 01:45 PM

Joe, no, you did just fine. The Art Carr Convertor is just as stout and I've spoken at length with them about their convertors. They seriously know their stuff. I wouldn't hesitate to have either one in my car.

My tranny has all Art Carr internals except for the convertor, which I'll be doing (again), shortly...

CRUZTAKER

07-05-2004, 06:03 PM

I took another drive this evening and now I'm concerned....I threw the race tires on before hand cause tommorrow is race day. When I gas on it from a dead stop, not to the floor, but 3/4 mash...I break loose something fierce. If I mash it to the floor, the car hits the rev limiter now in first...pauses...and continues to lay rubber through second into third.

Is this normal?
I mean...I am not complaining, but launches are now insane, and the control arms no longer hold me straight. I'm all over the road on a launch.

Very easy to show off now, but maybe not so good at the track? I'll find out tomorrow.

Logan

07-05-2004, 06:07 PM

Takes a bit to figure out how to drive the car with the convertor in it... You'll find yourself throttling into the power a bit more...

Joe Walsh

07-05-2004, 06:18 PM

Logan, Thanks for the input on the Art Carr Converter...WHEW! I was getting worried.. I see that Art Carr makes stout input shafts, bands, etc.... is that what you have in your tranny?? At what HP level do you recommend going into the transmission?? Should I just run the hell out of mine until I break it?

BillyGman

07-05-2004, 06:26 PM

Barry, don't forget that at the track your tires will grab the pavement better than they will on the street due to all that rubber traction compound they apply to the track.

CRUZTAKER

07-05-2004, 06:33 PM

Thanks Logan and Billy...I never figured I would have the old 'over grin face pain' trauma thing after that first month of ownership...but it's back.:D

I'll be patient, learn, and touch base with Jerry next week.

Logan

07-05-2004, 06:37 PM

Yep, pretty much everything Art Carr sells is in my Tranny. I'd be alright throwing upwards of 6-650hp at my tranny without worrying too much about it. I'll never get there though... I'll grenade my motor long before my tranny goes south... :)

BillyGman

07-05-2004, 06:40 PM

Barry, I forgot to say that as far as the thing about your engine hitting the rev limiter so hard in first gear that it actually cuts out for a second before it comes back on in second gear, yes, my car does that ocassionally also. There doesn't seem to be anyway to control it from the driver's seat. Sometimes it occurs, and sometimes it doesn't. Even though I don't prefer that, I'll live w/it since having all the extra power is fun. :D

cyclone03

07-06-2004, 09:00 AM

You blown guys(and gals) may want to lay off bouncing off the rev limiter.
Tha stock set up cuts off the fuel,can you say high speed lean out!Not good.

BillyGman

07-06-2004, 09:04 AM

Are you sure about that? As far as I knew, the way the rev limiter works is via the ignition system. No?

cyclone03

07-06-2004, 10:07 AM

Are you sure about that? As far as I knew, the way the rev limiter works is via the ignition system. No?

Get with Lid,Dennis or Jerry to confirm but from what I've heard the First thing the CPU does to limit RPM is to start cutting fuel.This may even begin before the max limit has been reached,the CPU detects rapid RPM rise and slows it before the Max is reached,300-500RPM early.

Now I'm sure this can be tuned out and may be already with your custom setup.

But stock it's fuel first.

MICA Racing

07-06-2004, 09:32 PM

Thanks everyone for YET ANOTHER great and informative thread. I do have a question and maybe you guys can help. I know nothing about automatic transmissions, but with the little I do know it seems you would want to not have the stall speed be higher than the cruise RPM at highway speeds. Can someone help me clear this up? From what I've heard here, I've pretty much decided my first mod will be 4.10's and the PI converter, along with a tuner and one of our fine vendors' programs. I just need a little lesson on torque converters - I understand stall speed, how the converter works, torque multiplication, having the stall speed be as close as practical to the torque peak rpm, etc., but I'm having trouble seeing how you can get away with having the stall speed be near or at cruise rpm. I daily drive mine, often on 200-300 mile business trips, and can't afford to turn my car into a purpose built rocket (as much as I'd like to), but I can give up a little (they all know or soon find out I race, so they expect my car to be a hot rod). Any help on this question would, as always, be greatly appreciated.

Joe Walsh

07-06-2004, 09:40 PM

I don't think that the stall speed comes into play on the Highway as these transmissions are 'Lock-Up' type, hence the decent highway MPG out of a 4400 lb MM.

MICA Racing

07-06-2004, 10:50 PM

Does this mean that there is an electronic system to lock/unlock the converter? And if so, I assume this would mean you could tune for desired characteristics? Thanks for helping out an automatic transmission ... what's the opposite of guru?

BillyGman

07-06-2004, 11:05 PM

I'm not an expert on this particular subject, and I'm not exactly absolutely positive about this, but I think that what Joe has told you is correct. I'm sure that Lidio, and Dennis would know more about this. And probably the best thing for you to do is to call Precision Industries (they're the manufacture of the Stallion converters) and ask them this same question. I've talked to them on the phone several times in the past, and have found them to always be helpful and cooperative even before I ever made a purchase from them.

Their number is (901)466-0267 the only thing that I can tell you for certain is that I have the Stallion converter, and it's set at 3,000 RPM stall speed, and it has great manners and driveability on the street. And that's on dry pavement as well as in the rain and the snow.