Replacement Steering Knuckle

[ledzilla]

So, I had previously posted, with photos, about my discovery of the messed up wheel hub. I bought new hubs from Rock Auto for both sides, figure just get it all done at once. However, I can't remove the messed up hub. I can only guess that over the several years it has been bad (and I am certain now about it having been bad for years) it had overheated enough to weld itself to the steering knuckle. However, I cannot seem to locate a replacement knuckle.

Does anyone know where to find them? I know I need a passenger side, still have to check the driver side. My only other option is to wait for my brother-in-law to have some time to help, bringing over his torch and hydraulic duckbill. I'd rather not go that route unless I have to.

[Zack]

Remove it from the car, then beat it out with a hammer or such.
Or go to a boneyard.
Or come buy the 2 I have for $100

[ledzilla]

Actually, I had tried the hammer option already. Used a 3lb sledge. Didn't budge in the slightest. However, I do like the option of buying the knuckles you have.

[Zack]

Actually, I had tried the hammer option already. Used a 3lb sledge. Didn't budge in the slightest. However, I do like the option of buying the knuckles you have.

I would have to completely disassemble them.
They are complete to the calipers.

Have you tried letting them soak overnight then using an air chisel?

[ledzilla]

I would have to completely disassemble them.
They are complete to the calipers.

Have you tried letting them soak overnight then using an air chisel?

I have not. Also, I do not have an air chisel, but I do have a small air compressor and I suppose I could go next door and get one from Harbor Freight. But what would I be soaking them in? Just water? Something else?

Also, right now I know the problem is just the passenger side. I still have yet to inspect the driver side.

[fastblackmerc]

Soak them in PB Blaster.

[ledzilla]

I've attached the photo I previously took of the hub in question. I mean, it really does look like the aluminum has melted around the hub. Am I seeing this wrong and would soaking it in PB Blaster actually help with this? I can't even see enough gaps in which the stuff could sufficiently seep into.

[Zack]

You have to unbolt the bolts first sir

[ledzilla]

I am quite aware of that. I would be lying if I said I've never tried removing a hub prior to removing all the bolts, as I have done that several times (and felt like a damned fool each time). But if removing the bolts was all it took to get the hub out, I would not be looking for alternative solutions to the issue. I've tried using both a slide hammer and 3lb sledge on that thing (with all four bolts removed for both tools), and it hasn't budged. I had to do this just recently with both hubs on my Buick, and it was a bear to get each one out. I've used more effort on this one hub than on both of the Buick's combined, and I haven't made any progress. I am willing to grant a potential lack of sufficient upper body strength as part of the problem, as I'm a bit on the doughy side, but I don't think that's it.

[Turbov6Bryan]

Have you tried a 4 pound sledgehammer?:flamer:

[GetMeMyStogie]

Is there room to stuff a small bottle jack behind the hub, against some part of the frame, and press it out?
There are youtube videos of doing this using the power steering, but that's apparently not recommended for cars with rack and pinion.

[lifespeed]

Actually that knuckle/bearing interface looks like serious corrosion to me. Based on your location I think road salt is a safe bet. Chemical reaction rates do increase with heat.

My unsalted hub simply unbolted on the driver side, but the passenger side was a bit sticky to remove. This was done during a suspension rebuild, and it was decided to replace the passenger knuckle with a salvage piece as the hub bearing sticking in the knuckle (no corrosion) seemed to be an indication it had been slightly tweaked.

A penetrant like PB blaster as suggested is worth trying. Don't use a torch (except maybe to gently warm it), you'll weaken the aluminum. Worst case, you may end up needing to replace the spindles. Personally, I would not beat on the bearing, knuckle and suspension joints with a sledgehammer. :rolleyes:

For all this effort I would have gone with Ford hubs, who knows what Rock Auto sold you. Maybe OK, maybe not. If it doesn't last guess who gets to fix it? Hint: it won't be Rock Auto.

[justbob]

I did my brother in laws 03 CV last year. It was a brutal 2 HOURS to get it out. I found it best with a good assortment of chisels working around the out perimeter.


Builder Of Badassery

[ledahettice]

Get something very rigid and sharp,dig around where the aluminum meets the metal using penetrating oil,a short knife with a stout blade works good,hold it with a vice grips and work around the circumference of it evenly,some heat helps but not too much.

[ledzilla]

Have you tried a 4 pound sledgehammer?:flamer:

Ha!


Is there room to stuff a small bottle jack behind the hub, against some part of the frame, and press it out?
There are youtube videos of doing this using the power steering, but that's apparently not recommended for cars with rack and pinion.

It's worth a thought, but I don't at present have a bottle jack. I think my dad and I did something similar years ago when we were replacing the lower control arms on his '67 Mustang. I think we used the bottle jack I had at the time to push the pieces around so we could get the bolts in. The aftermarket parts he bought were not made correctly.


Actually that knuckle/bearing interface looks like serious corrosion to me. Based on your location I think road salt is a safe bet. Chemical reaction rates do increase with heat.

My unsalted hub simply unbolted on the driver side, but the passenger side was a bit sticky to remove. This was done during a suspension rebuild, and it was decided to replace the passenger knuckle with a salvage piece as the hub bearing sticking in the knuckle (no corrosion) seemed to be an indication it had been slightly tweaked.

A penetrant like PB blaster as suggested is worth trying. Don't use a torch (except maybe to gently warm it), you'll weaken the aluminum. Worst case, you may end up needing to replace the spindles. Personally, I would not beat on the bearing, knuckle and suspension joints with a sledgehammer. :rolleyes:

For all this effort I would have gone with Ford hubs, who knows what Rock Auto sold you. Maybe OK, maybe not. If it doesn't last guess who gets to fix it? Hint: it won't be Rock Auto.

Actually, it IS a Ford part I'm trying to remove right now. These are the factory original hubs. Or maybe I misread what you were saying... Anyway, you echoed my thoughts on using a torch. That's why I want avoid using one. And the hubs I bought are made by Timken, if that means anything.


But really, I'm tired of doing this stuff right now. I've been doing it constantly since spring, trying to deal mostly with my Buick (since a bunch of maintenance items were left undone by the previous owner, including some very serious suspension stuff, and several new issues arose such as an undiagnosable misfire). I ran out of patience from dealing with all of that, and I have none left for dealing with this. I guess you could say that I'm quite exasperated by constantly having relatively simple issues on two cars become big time consuming productions. It's exhausting.

[Turbov6Bryan]

Did you ever take your module on the Buick to oreillys?

Call em n see if they can test it

[ledzilla]

Did you ever take your module on the Buick to oreillys?

Call em n see if they can test it

To which module are you referring?

[lifespeed]

But really, I'm tired of doing this stuff right now. I've been doing it constantly since spring, trying to deal mostly with my Buick (since a bunch of maintenance items were left undone by the previous owner, including some very serious suspension stuff, and several new issues arose such as an undiagnosable misfire). I ran out of patience from dealing with all of that, and I have none left for dealing with this. I guess you could say that I'm quite exasperated by constantly having relatively simple issues on two cars become big time consuming productions. It's exhausting.

I know what you mean. Not many people have the money, patience or interest to keep an old car in proper working order as you have seen. Even though these cars are worth the effort it is still a lot of trouble.
It might be worth removing the spindles, soaking them, and seeing if a they can be pressed out without using huge forces that would tweak the spindles. If they are properly supported around the bearing they shouldn't bend.

OTOH, they just may be too far gone. Corrosion sometimes just can't be fixed, you may need to get a new (or used) set and put your new bearings in. Of course you won't want to bolt them up to old ball joints and tie rods . . .

[Turbov6Bryan]

To which module are you referring?

Your Buick that's got a miss. Ignition control module. It's what the coils bolt down to. Call oreillys and see if they can test it for you

[ledzilla]

I know what you mean. Not many people have the money, patience or interest to keep an old car in proper working order as you have seen. Even though these cars are worth the effort it is still a lot of trouble.
It might be worth removing the spindles, soaking them, and seeing if a they can be pressed out without using huge forces that would tweak the spindles. If they are properly supported around the bearing they shouldn't bend.

OTOH, they just may be too far gone. Corrosion sometimes just can't be fixed, you may need to get a new (or used) set and put your new bearings in. Of course you won't want to bolt them up to old ball joints and tie rods . . .

I actually wouldn't even want to try to save the spindles. They're probably not worth it. Not from corrosion, but from lack of lubrication. There was a squeak coming from that wheel for a long time that I had originally attributed to the brakes. One day it suddenly when from a squeak to a scream. I'd rather just replace the whole assembly.


Your Buick that's got a miss. Ignition control module. It's what the coils bolt down to. Call oreillys and see if they can test it for you

I didn't even think of what that little platform was. I'm used to distributors and COPs. Called up a few different parts stores in my area, and they don't test them. But it looks like there are some in stock in the neighborhood, so it'll probably be worth my time to just buy a new one and be done with it. Or I'll just find instructions for testing with a multimeter and see what happens.

[lifespeed]

I actually wouldn't even want to try to save the spindles. They're probably not worth it. Not from corrosion, but from lack of lubrication. There was a squeak coming from that wheel for a long time that I had originally attributed to the brakes. One day it suddenly when from a squeak to a scream. I'd rather just replace the whole assembly.

Not sure which part you're referring to now, but the knuckle (spindle?) is not a wear item, no moving parts. Which is not to say it may not need to be replaced for other reasons.

[ledzilla]

Not sure which part you're referring to now, but the knuckle (spindle?) is not a wear item, no moving parts. Which is not to say it may not need to be replaced for other reasons.

Essentially, the hub assembly is stuck in the knuckle. Instead of monkeying around, trying various things that may or may not work, I'd rather just replace the knuckle so I can put in a new hub assembly and be on my way. If someone wanted to try to salvage the knuckle for future use, I'd be more than happy to send it to them at no cost.

It sounded to me like you were suggesting to try to save the actual wheel spindle and just replace the bearings. But given how much metal-on-metal grinding has been occurring, I was saying that I'd prefer to just replace all of the moving parts.

So... Hub assemblies, easy to find. Steering knuckles, not so much.

[Turbov6Bryan]

Sorry to derail your thread, multimeter will check the coils not the module

Here is one of mine, does yours look like this? Oreillys used to check the module, not like this though

http://youtu.be/N3RcW9BBvpc

[justbob]

Come on Mike, don't let that little chunk of metal kick your ass.


Builder Of Badassery

[ledzilla]

Well, new ICM arrived for the Buick (along with a new EGR valve -- it started throwing codes the other day). But I'll be waiting a couple days before doing the work. Helping my GF move into a new place this week (not mine, before you ask =P).

Zack, if the offer for the knuckles still stand, I'd like to at least take you up on the passenger side. I don't think I'll need the driver side, but I'm going to try to check it out before the weekend if I can. I have no problem driving out to your place to pick it (them) up.

[ledzilla]

Managed to squeeze in 45 minutes yesterday to swap out the ICM on the Century. Still have a misfire. Gonna see if I can find me a spark tester after work. Maybe one of the new parts isn't as good as it could be. Wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the fact that the computer is limiting the revs to 4K. I have to stomp the gas pedal to get it to move, but I have to let off so it will upshift. Otherwise I'm stuck going 25-30mph at 4K rpm and not accelerating.

[Turbov6Bryan]

On your Buick. Get a pen and paper
Test the ohms across each coil, twice. Once with key on once with key off

Use both meter leads, set meter scale knob to upside down horseshoe, test 4 to 1 then 2 to 5 and last 6 to 3

4...2....6
1....5....3

So you should read between 10k and 13k. If two are 12k and one is 8k, then that one coil is bad, is yours all one coil or separate? If separate, replace the oddball coil with lowest number

If all are 10-13k then it's not cp n ign module .

With the car cold start it, and in 30 seconds use a infared heat temperature gun and point it to each exhaust header tube, if one exhaust manifold header tube is much much colder on start up, that's the cylinder that has:

Bad spark plug , bad wire, bad melted injector from egr leak, bad wiring to injector, flat cam lobe, rocker arm fallen off, hole in piston ect

[ledzilla]

Use both meter leads, set meter scale knob to upside down horseshoe...

I am familiar with the Greek Omega, signifying Ohms when it comes to electrical circuitry. But I don't think I have ever heard anyone describe it in a such a fashion before. Since physics class in high school back in the 90's, it's always just been "Ohms" or "Omega". I actually never thought about it looking like that until now. =P

I might do that tonight after the engine cools off.

[ledzilla]

Also, that's pretty much the layout of the coil packs. On that 3.1L they're grouped 5-2, 1-4, 6-3 (from pass side to drv side). It's just annoying to think that even with all new ignition parts something is still broken.

[Turbov6Bryan]

It's hard to tell ones skill level when typing on the Internet. I didn't know if you had a good digital meter with auto scale or not.

[Turbov6Bryan]

Also, that's pretty much the layout of the coil packs. On that 3.1L they're grouped 5-2, 1-4, 6-3 (from pass side to drv side). It's just annoying to think that even with all new ignition parts something is still broken.

I think you mean this, try this firing order, I looked up 2001 3.1

Maybe you just typed it down wrong here

[ledzilla]

Yeah, that's what I had meant. Without seeing the motor in front of me I get it mixed up. By the way, I do have a thread for this, so we should probably move this there...

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=98566

Also, all three coil packs tested the same resistance across the towers: approx 5.2K