Lost 3rd and 4th last night

[alec2538]

So last night for some reason my '03 decided it no longer needed 3rd or 4th gear. Everything was fine all afternoon and on the way home, never over heated never made a sound.

I ran to the grocery store after I got home and everything was fine. When leaving the store, the 1-2 shift was perfect as usual. Then, when it "shifted" to third the transmission felt like it went into neutral. No noise, no CEL, just no gear. Putting it into manual 2 or turning OD off keeps it in 2nd gear, but it wouldn't go into 3rd.

I pulled over, ran in to park then back to drive, and all of a sudden it was working fine again. It wasn't slipping, it just worked.

This morning on the way to work, I'm back to no 3rd. Same symptoms as last night. No CEL, no slipping. I just get neutral in 3rd.

I suspect either a servo let go or the direct clutch is fried. Any tips?

[Spectragod]

Intermediate shaft? Sounds like it to me.

[Comin' in Hot]

There is a good chance you'll be loosing 1st and 2nd soon too.... what does the fluid look like?

[alec2538]

Fluid looks perfect. Red with a hint of brown. Absolutely no burnt smell or metallic sparkles of any kind. Like I said, 1st and 22nd still work perfectly and it was 100% fine last night leading up to this. There was no warning what so ever.

[justbob]

Sounds like a broken piece of the retainer clip from the 2-3 accumulator lodged in the valve body.


Builder Of Badassery

[Zack]

Sounds like a broken piece of the retainer clip from the 2-3 accumulator lodged in the valve body.


Builder Of Badassery

Say whaaaaa?

[justbob]

Say whaaaaa?


That's what I just asked my self and decided to come back and see if I actually typed that.. (I'm sick as all get out and should be sleeping!)

DISREGARD lol

I'm going back to bed...


Builder Of Badassery

[JOEMERC]

Couldn't hurt to drop the transmission pan just to take a look ?

[alec2538]

I had to drive her home tonight and got a little more info. Whether it helps or not I'm not sure.

1st and 2nd gear feel perfect. No different than they did before. I did notice, however, that when it goes into lockup in 2nd (like it always has) it only holds for a second and then pops back out. The shift pattern under light to moderate acceleration always used to be: 1st - 2nd - 2nd w/lockup (momentarily) - 3rd w/ lockup - 4th w/lockup.

So no it goes: 1st - 2nd - 2nd w/very short lockup - back to 2nd - neutral rev.

The OD light never flashes and the CEL never comes on. If I press the OD off button, it will just do the 1-2 shift with the lockup attempt and it won't do the neutral rev. I still have engine braking in manual 2nd and manual 1st.

Hopefully on Tuesday I can drop the pan and see if anything looks awry. However, after the reading I've done today it certainly seems as though the direct clutch is fried.

I may get a beater and try rebuilding this one myself... it's been years since I rebuilt an auto but there are a lot of guides and the 4r70w is pretty basic as far as transmissions go.

[88grandmarq]

I had to drive her home tonight and got a little more info. Whether it helps or not I'm not sure.

1st and 2nd gear feel perfect. No different than they did before. I did notice, however, that when it goes into lockup in 2nd (like it always has) it only holds for a second and then pops back out. The shift pattern under light to moderate acceleration always used to be: 1st - 2nd - 2nd w/lockup (momentarily) - 3rd w/ lockup - 4th w/lockup.

So no it goes: 1st - 2nd - 2nd w/very short lockup - back to 2nd - neutral rev.

The OD light never flashes and the CEL never comes on. If I press the OD off button, it will just do the 1-2 shift with the lockup attempt and it won't do the neutral rev. I still have engine braking in manual 2nd and manual 1st.

Hopefully on Tuesday I can drop the pan and see if anything looks awry. However, after the reading I've done today it certainly seems as though the direct clutch is fried.

I may get a beater and try rebuilding this one myself... it's been years since I rebuilt an auto but there are a lot of guides and the 4r70w is pretty basic as far as transmissions go.

either the direct clutch failed, the intermediate shaft is broken or the internal splines on the direct drum snout are stripped. Regardless, no amount of fiddling with the valve body will fix it. you will need to remove the transmission and rebuild it. upgrade the intermediate shaft if you running forced induction or nitrous.

[alec2538]

That's what I was afraid of, but prepared for. Oh well. I have a 43k mile unit coming freight from Iowa, should be here Thursday morning. They don't want a core either so maybe I'll rebuild mine as a spare or figure out something else to do with it.

[tbone]

Get the hardened stub shaft even if you are NA. I twisted mine when I was still NA. I was running @ 367 crank hp at the time.

[alec2538]

I shouldn't need any upgraded parts. Nothing on this car will be upgraded power wise as long as I have it, it's got plenty for me.

[alec2538]

Well the new trans is in! It showed up 2 days faster than I was expecting.

Other than being a bit dirty from sitting, the trans looked amazing. I replaced the output shaft seal and filter with Motorcraft parts of course. When I dropped the pan, it still had the yellow plug from assembly in it. The fluid looked brand new, and there was hardly any clutch material on the magnet (there was a normal amount so the pan hasn't been off recently). The recycler stated the transmission had 43k miles on it, and I could see no reason to argue the fact. All this for $325 drop shipped to my shop!

The scrap yard even had the VIN noted on the pick ticket, and the trans most certainly came out of a Marauder. It had the correct floor shift linkage still on it. Came with the output speed and neutral safety switches too. Just as amazing, they don't want a core back! So I've not got a complete second unit to tinker with. Eventually I'll take it apart and see what failed, but there was a LOT of clutch material in the fluid. It wasn't burnt, but it looks to me like there was a slight pressure issue for the direct clutch circuit. Not enough to burn the clutch to a crisp, but enough to slowly cause an issue. I touched base with the previous owner, he confirmed that it had been "professionally" rebuilt 4 years ago. The converter was typical "I'm new blue" paint on it to back that story up. It certainly shifted like it was modified, but I'll find out soon enough.

Here's my plan going forward:

Remove valve body from spare trans and perform J-mod's

When mods are complete, install VB in "new" trans, removing accumulator springs at the same time.

Install stock valve body into original transmission and set to the side of the garage. Outcome TBD

I have read the J-mod FAQ's and watched the rizzo video (very helpful, credit). I have no issue performing the modifications to the valve body or R&R. My only question is this: are the drill bit sizes, holes, and spring configurations shown in the video the "recommended" modifications for my otherwise-stock '03? The original FAQ only dates to '97 transmissions, and the video refers specifically '02-up transmissions, which I take to mean the instructions are applicable to my car.

If someone could clarify I would be most appreciative. I love having my car back but I forgot just how soggy the factory shifts are. It's crisp, being low miles, but it's certainly not what I was accustomed to.

[RubberCtyRauder]

The hole sizes are specific..and you should get a tune for the car. It does more than just a jmod. it changes to shift schedule into much more streetable rather than in and out of overdrive like it does from factory. Contact martyo from MO's speed shop here intehvendor section. he is an active member, supporter here.

[alec2538]

I know the tune helps, and I do plan on getting one. Maybe a christmas present to myself. For now, as budget allows, I'm keeping things simple. From what I understand, the J-mod is beneficial even stock. Also, as odd as it sounds I actually don't mind the shift schedule. I would prefer downshifts requiring a little less "prodding" from the pedal, but my normal driving conditions are actually benefitted by having early lockup and earlier part-throttle shifts. I open her up plenty, but any given tank will net 19-20 MPG.

Now, things would be MUCH different if she wasn't a daily! Haha.

[88grandmarq]

Remove valve body from spare trans and perform J-mod's

When mods are complete, install VB in "new" trans, removing accumulator springs at the same time.

Install stock valve body into original transmission and set to the side of the garage. Outcome TBD

I have read the J-mod FAQ's and watched the rizzo video (very helpful, credit). I have no issue performing the modifications to the valve body or R&R. My only question is this: are the drill bit sizes, holes, and spring configurations shown in the video the "recommended" modifications for my otherwise-stock '03? The original FAQ only dates to '97 transmissions, and the video refers specifically '02-up transmissions, which I take to mean the instructions are applicable to my car.

If someone could clarify I would be most appreciative. I love having my car back but I forgot just how soggy the factory shifts are. It's crisp, being low miles, but it's certainly not what I was accustomed to.

For a stock to mild Marauder do this:

replace the pressure regulator valve with Sonnax valve - 76948-09
replace boost valve with Sonnax valve - 76948-02K
replace OD regulator valve with Sonnax valve - 76948-29K
replace the 1-2/2-3 shift valve end plug with Sonnax end plug - 76999-MED (comes in a pack of 3)
replace the separator plate with Superior "TUFF" plate - K092

drill to new plate:
hole 1 = .161" - #20
hole 2 = .1015" - #38
hole 3 = .180" - #15
hole 4&5 = .113" - #33
hole 6 = .161"
hole 7 = not used
hole 8 = not used
hole 9&11 = .125" - 1/8"
hole 10 = .089"

DO NOT REMOVE ANY OF THE ACCUMULATOR SPRINGS !!!!

assemble valve body with new gaskets.
Use a hollow punch and enlarge holes 4&5 in the gasket to match new holes you drilled.

install new valve body with new filter and re-fill with 10 qts of Mercon V fluid.

READ HERE --> http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=96760

[alec2538]

Thank you so much for the information. I hope to get this done sooner than later!

[99SVT]

I've lost 3-4 gear twice on 4r70s.
Once was the stub shaft shearing on a wot 2-3 shift, the other was the direct snap ring popping out on a 4-2 downshift.