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View Full Version : NOS'd my Marauder Friday + some news on a Hot '04 MM we did...



Lidio
05-09-2004, 07:11 AM
Finally got around to replacing the in tank pump in my MM with a Focus pump that’s been getting great reviews from other Ford tuners around the country. This is the reason I’ve held off using the little 50hp shot of NOS on my MM on top of the trilogy’s 13.7psi of boost. The stock pump signed off at 440-450RWHP with the KB Boost-a-pump setting maxed out. This was all done with the stock filter and lines. Any one who thinks the stock fuel system on a MM when left N/A with only a few bolt ons isn’t enough is very mistaken. On a Trilogy car the stock pump and filter kept up with-out a Boost-a-pump until the high 300RWHP!

I finally started to spray the 50 shot and ran into several problems once I got passed the fuel pump issues. First off the car would buck and jerk and miss fire when the NOS began to flow. This was fixed by regaping the plugs to a tight .030 instead of the .035ish we usually run with boosted apps. Once I got passed the initial misfiring the car began to detonate severely at about 5500rpm. As I pulled timing and tried to tune around the problem I found my self negating the 50shot of NOS because I pulled to much timing to keep it from knocking.

So with out hesitation I made the decision to run 100 octane unleaded in the car when using the NOS on top of the boost. This allowed me to put back in the timing and fully sort it out, with out any problems what so ever. As I’ve always tried to instill amongst my customers with the stock 9.8 or 10to1 compression Cobra 32V’s …. that more octane is needed when getting into big boost… I even failed to listen to my own rules some times.

Luckily I managed to lift when I heard the knock and no problems at all have resulted with my MM’s motor. The final results on my dyno when it was all sorted out was 469RWHP. The peak RWHP number isn’t all the big of a deal but the peak torque and mid range torque are up dramatically across the board. I’m at home now but will post the dyno sheets and/or numbers on Monday hopefully. But for the most part the 50 shot of NOS was worth about 25-35 at different parts of the curve on the chassis dyno. On the day I tested the NOS on my car on both the street and the dyno it was about 80 degrees and the NOS bottle pressure was about 850-900psi. (NOS systems and bottles perform the best at about 900psi which is achieved typically at about 80degree temperatures).

Friday night I took my MM to Milan Dragway and literally drove it in off the street, teched it, added the 100 octane they sell there and proceeded to run an 11.79@116.9 with a 1.69 60-foot (awesome for this tank of a car)!!! Normally I remove my fully loaded trunk organizer and run the car with only about 3 gallons of fuel in it. This time I didn’t pull the trunk organizer, had about ½ a tank, added a full 34lbs NOS bottle and a few things in the back seat. I think my MM went down the track weighing about 180-200lbs more then when I normally have raced it lately.

Mind you this 11.79 was on the NOS!! I was fully expecting to bring home an 11.50 to 11.65 with the NOS on top of the boost. The traction was perfect. But the temps were in the mid fifty’s and I don’t have a bottle warmer (tight ass). So my bottle pressure was about 650-700psi! So basically the NOS at this psi only added about 30-35 HP I’m guessing and I didn’t bring the jets to try to make up for it. So between the weight and the NOS’s little effect I barley beat my best of 11.86 with out the NOS. And the track was so busy and behind I couldn’t make any more runs. That’s why I choose to spray it on my first pass as soon as I got there. I knew I’d only get one or two runs.

That ended up being my only run which I kinda knew was gona happing because of how late I got there and how crowded it was. So in summation for my car I think in the summer heat soon when its about 80ish it will probably run 11.90-12.00’s all day and then with the bottle pressure up where it should be I think it will go for sure mid 11’s with the NOS and the weight where I like to keep it normally when drag racing. But for now with the entirely stock exhaust I think this is gona start to be about it for this combo.


I do have some very stellar news about a customers 04 MM with did a full Trilogy and then some just recently. This person is not a member here so unfortunaly you wont here any more news about this car here probably.

He came to me and said he wanted guaranteed low, low 12s -- high 11s in the ¼ mile from his MM.

Here is the recipe it got;
All stock motor and internals, 14psi of Trilogy blower, big oval throttle body, 80mm Pro-M, Kooks long tubes and a full 2.5” exhaust with two cats and FlowMaster 50-deltas with the original tips ungutted, 4.10s with widened rims and the 305 Nitto drag radials, Bauman shift kit, stock trans and converter, focus fuel pump, larger intercooler heat exchanger.

This car because of the throttle body and full exhaust with long tubes made more power then my MM did on the DynoJet with the NOS! With 93 octane this thing made 474RWHP!! This is with out the blower porting like I have on mine!! On its first and only pass Friday night with me driving it knocked out also an 11.79 at just under 118mph. This is not NOS’d like mine. Just like my self he got there late and couldn’t make any more runs. Needless to say I had a very happy customer. I would have to say that the long tubes and the full exhaust accounted for about 30-35+ more RWHP then mine at this time. And the throttle body about another 10rwhp or so. One thing I’ve noticed for sure is that the ’04 MM’s defiantly have a looser/higher stall torque converter then the 03’s. This car noticeably leeps harder then mine out of the whole and pulled a 1.70 sixty foot at the track.


I know now that as long as the dealer can get it right I will be ordering the stock ’04 torque converter for my MM very soon. It seems to me to be just the right amount of extra stall for a MM with a Trilogy with the stock 9.5psi or greater.


Thanks

stevengerard
05-09-2004, 07:31 AM
Wow, great news for us 04 guys. thanks for the info. Can't wait untill mine gets supercharged - 1000 miles down, how many more do I have to wait?

Zack
05-09-2004, 08:23 AM
Yes, Im impressed.
Just amazing for a car so huge and a motor so small.
Good work as always Lidio

MikesMerc
05-09-2004, 09:41 AM
Good stuff Lidio! Keep up the good work!

BTW, Steven, I added the Trilogy to my car when the miles hit 1,800. No ill effects whatsoever. I think its still getting faster too. It "feels" better at 3000 now :burnout:

SergntMac
05-09-2004, 09:49 AM
Awesome! Bravo, Lidio!

jgc61sr2002
05-09-2004, 01:29 PM
Lidio - Way to go. :up: :bows:

SergntMac
05-09-2004, 01:35 PM
Lidio, can I get your opinion on the '04 tranny? Any value to upgrading an '03 to '04 specs? I'm pretty sure the '04 torque converter is an improvement over the '03, and beneficial without the expense of a Stallion TC, but what about the '04 gear ratios and valve body? Any "performance sense" to rebuilding an '03 4R70W to an '04 4R75W by improving internals?

BillyGman
05-09-2004, 02:28 PM
I encourage Lidio to answer that question, since it's directed at him. However, in the mean time, let me add that I thought that there's only very minor upgrades to the 04 Marauder transmission, and that the gearing and the throttle body is essentially the same as the 03 is. No?

sailsmen
05-09-2004, 04:26 PM
Congratulations :banana: Awesome times :bows:

I am curious we are now seeing 13 to 14 psi on stock internals. At what point do you think the psi is maxed out on stock internals?

Is it more an issue of air intake temp and knock?

Lidio
05-09-2004, 05:47 PM
Guys… at this moment I don’t know every last detail about what makes the ‘04s 4R75W trans stronger, or slightly stronger then the ‘03s 4R70W.
I’m aware of some physical hardware being improved for greater torque capacity, but exactly every thing about it I apologize…. I haven’t done enough home work on. I can tell you this though. In my opinion the ‘03s -- 4R70W’s are very tough and can take a huge pounding as long as its done with OD turned off and the shifts are firmed up accordingly. One thing I did notice also with the 04s 4R75W is that it can handle forced down shifts with less of a RPM flare from 4th back to 3rd or 4th back to 2nd much, much better. This is noticable when you add about 125+ HP, not when they're stock or close to stock. Some of this was explained to me by JW.

As far as going through the trouble to convert an 03 to the 04 trans? My opinion is its not worth it. Like I said in my pinned 4R70W post; I’ve worked with these electric AOD’s and 4R70W’s for a long time now and as long as they’re abused in the first three gears only they hold up very well in some very high HP applications for me. Trilogy number one should be looked at as a very good example of what should be expected for the most part from a MM trans when abused with a blower installed. The car is pushing mid 30K on the ODO and nothing has gone wrong yet at all with the trans. Some of what I do with the programming helps to. Not letting the torque converter lock as frequently as stock especially at WOT makes a good difference too, in its longevity.

Billy is correct… the 04 trans has the same gearing as the old one. Although the throttle body thing I’m not sure if I worded it right. The 04 we did got an after market large oval T/B that fits and works perfect with the Trilogy inlet manifold. Same goes for the 04 Valve body. It is different too. We found this when we made our own Baumann shift kit fit the 04 MM trans with not to many difficulties.
I’m doing very well with the 4R70W’s in the 03 Marauders and of course countless Mustangs too… so I wont be encouraging a swap of any sort to the 4R75’s any time soon.

Sailsmen….. I’ve wrote this here before and I’ll repeat a tiny bit of it real quick. The stock internals of any current Ford V-8 especially the 4.6L’s in the rear-drive stuff we’re used to can handle more boost then you’d ever imagine!! High inlet temps, compression, boost what ever you do, its all in the tune!! When I say the tune I mean every aspect of the tune…. That includes octane as well.

I’ve proved it with a lot of 5.0L and 4.6L Mustangs long before I tampered with the Marauder. To this day have several stock internal’d 4.6L 2-valve and 4V’s making as much as 20-23psi!!!! Of course you don’t tamper with this kind of boost on this type of application with out race fuel. Just like I just mentioned in this thread. I will not NOS my MM on top of the boost with out the 100 octane. This for some reason has a stigma attatached to it when it comes to running race gas (understandable, expensive, hard to get some times) … not to me. Its good stuff every time you use it. Not 93 that might be watered down or mixed wrong or just plain criminally sold to you. Don’t get me wrong though. You can detonate and burn down a race fuel equipped motor as well. Its not the end all for engine protection but defiantly needed in certain high boost, highly volatile situations.

Its taken me a long time to prove to my customers and potential customers that when you add boost to a stock 4.6L, if its tuned responsibly and safely it will live a long, healthy life. The problem is that to many shops (big name shops included) in the last decade of EFI and supercharging have been very good at haphazardly installing blowers, burn them down and simply say; “Hey, you’re the one that wanted to boost you’re stock non forged internal, lets get started on that $4000.00 forged short block” These are the shops that if they did boost a forged piston motor, instead of it breaking pitons right away, over time it will simply blow head gaskets. Because one things for sure, a 4.6L nine out of ten times will break a piston before it pops a head gasket.


Thanks

MI2QWK4U
05-09-2004, 06:03 PM
Good job on things as usual Lid. Glad to hear about getting the Nitros sorted out. That silver Marauder really rocks. Trust me, for those that dont get the inside view of things, Lidio invited me to ride with him when he was tuning and sorting it out so I could hear the Kooks headers for myself. I had something totally new and never thought of mod for our Trilogy cars for Lidio to look at and install this week, but have suffered a death in the family and wont get to it, just not motivated. Catch you in a couple weeks Lidio.

Jerry Barnes
05-09-2004, 07:22 PM
Lidio,

Congratulations on the great runs with your car and our new customers car! Your posts are the most informative on this site!!! I am glad to see that with other modifications we can achieve the same types of times that your NOS car is running, Don't get me wrong, NOS is good if used properly, but it scares me!

But, I think it is great that you can document the results among all of these alternatives. It only helps us choose our direction a little better.

On the subject of the 03' and o4' trans changes, I will contact the engineer at Ford on Monday and ask him to explain, in detail, the changes that were made between the two. I may be able to get everyone a response by the end of the week.

Once again, I agree completely with your statement that it is all in the tuning when it comes to engine longivity! And you da man!

We are in the process of cleaning up Trilogy #1's engine and engine compartment. Winter driving and drag racing was brutal to the polished pieces. It looked like ***** under the hood. I was embarassed to show people the supercharger. So, we should have in shape for the next couple of events and I need to bring it out to you for tuning.

Also thinking seriously about auctioning off Trilogy #1 to purchase a 04' to understand the trans and other changes for testing purposes.

Anyway, once again great job, Lid! I will see you about mid-week to take care of the trans in the 39' Ford.

See Ya!

SergntMac
05-10-2004, 02:28 AM
Thanks for the replies Lidio and Jerry, the tranny 411 from Ford will be helpful. It's my understanding that for '04, gear ratios and valve body specs have changed, it would be helpful to know how much.

mpearce
05-13-2004, 06:17 AM
Lidio,

Just curious...can you give me a ballpark as to what this conversion might cost??

Here is the recipe it got;
All stock motor and internals, 14psi of Trilogy blower, big oval throttle body, 80mm Pro-M, Kooks long tubes and a full 2.5” exhaust with two cats and FlowMaster 50-deltas with the original tips ungutted, 4.10s with widened rims and the 305 Nitto drag radials, Bauman shift kit, stock trans and converter, focus fuel pump, larger intercooler heat exchanger.

Lidio
05-15-2004, 03:46 AM
Right around 15K out the door. The car remained completely drivable and totally every-dayable. You'd never know what was done to it except for the exhaust note when just driving normal around town and on the highway.

Thanks