component speakers or coaxial?

[Davco]

I am buying a new headunit and door speakers. The headunit is a Sony MEX XB100BT which has 40x4 RMS. I am debating on purchasing a set of components. I have installed stereo equipment in every vehicle I've owned but have never used components. I will not ever add an amp for my speakers but I do have a 12 inch sub with amp that I will install. So here is my question:

Will I notice much of a difference running a set of components with 40 watts over a 3 way coaxial? The component will probably have a watt range of 8-100 rms.....same for the coaxial.

[BAD MERC]

Components have a better crossover network but untrained ears will never notice. The door speaker height is a contributory factor in speaker location. If your coaxials have a tweeter that can be rotated make sure it's as high and rearward as possible, same with components. If possible, mount the component tweeter as coaxially centered as possible to the midbass driver. The soundstage would be considered to be where the rearview mirror is. You're not going for SQ or a perfect soundstage so use what fits but don't cheap out.

[ctrlraven]

Unless you are going to put an amp on the new door speakers, stick with stock.

[jwibbity]

Unless you are going to put an amp on the new door speakers, stick with stock.

The stock door speakers are complete garbage (to me).... Super thin paper cones with a built in "tweeter" which lacks a lot in the high end.

I used to run all 6X8 Components from Kicker that sound much better then their coaxial counterparts. You really only notice the difference when the volume up past 60-70%. The little capacitors they use on coaxial speakers for the "crossover" do not work well when the volume is turned up. Components usually have their own dedicated crossover that can be customized depending on which brand you buy. This also adds a bit more complexity to the install now that you have to mount an extra component versus plug-and-play with co-axials.

I now have Kicker 5" Components in the front with the tweeters mounted in the door panel itself running off a separate amp and the Kicker 6X8 components in the rear running off the head unit.

Everybody's sound tastes are different so you can install the head unit first and see how it sounds. You may be satisfied with the stock speakers with the aftermarket head unit

[Davco]

I'm definitely not sticking to stock speakers. This headunit will be feeding them 40 watts of continuous power. Most headunits push 15-22 watts. Most of my music will be played through my phone....iTunes. I like it to sound good and clear but I am not sure if I would notice a huge difference with components...especially since they will only have 40 watts to them vs 75-100 that an amp would feed.

[8UWITH6]

If you are not running an amplifier of any kind to the speakers then buy any aftermarket coax speaker you want because it doesnt matter much which ones you go with. If you truly want to improve the sound quality and power handling buy an amplifier and run components. You wont be disappointed. And you probably will not even need rear speakers if you go that route.

[JBeezy]

I went with JL Components and JL 4 channel on them. Upgraded my rears to 6x9. Seperate amp for my subs

[Davco]

I went with JL Components and JL 4 channel on them. Upgraded my rears to 6x9. Seperate amp for my subs

What size mid range did you put in the doors? I know it has 6x8/5x7 holes.

[Esilar]

What size mid range did you put in the doors? I know it has 6x8/5x7 holes.

I installed Infinity Reference 6832cf all around. The location of the tweeter is not ideal in the doors but the setup is much better than stock.

[fastblackmerc]

I installed Infinity Reference 6832cf all around. The location of the tweeter is not ideal in the doors but the setup is much better than stock.

I installed the same and added tweeters to the interior rearview mirror covers.

[Davco]

I installed Infinity Reference 6832cf all around. The location of the tweeter is not ideal in the doors but the setup is much better than stock.

I've been looking at that speaker because crutchfield has it on sale for $70/pair. I had an older version in my old explorer and was pleased. According to crutchfield these speakers don't fit up front because of the mounting depth. Did you guys have any trouble?

Fastblackmerc, did you just install some crossovers to separate the frequencies between the door coaxial and the tweeters?

[jwibbity]

Just an fyi Crutchfield is usually the most expensive place to buy anything car audio

[Fastbob]

Just an fyi Crutchfield is usually the most expensive place to buy anything car audioTrue, but they have the best service and tech support that there is. Catch something on sale and Crutchfield is very competitive.

[Fastbob]

Infinity Reference 6832cf are 2 ohm impedance and may not be compatible with the Sony head unit you are looking at. The Sony head unit is power output rated at 4 ohms. Using a 2 ohm speaker on a 4 ohm unit may damage the amplifier especially at high volumes.

[fastblackmerc]

I've been looking at that speaker because crutchfield has it on sale for $70/pair. I had an older version in my old explorer and was pleased. According to crutchfield these speakers don't fit up front because of the mounting depth. Did you guys have any trouble?

Fastblackmerc, did you just install some crossovers to separate the frequencies between the door coaxial and the tweeters?

Had no problems installing them in the doors. Yes there are crossovers installed for each tweeter. I'll see if I have a picture.

[justbob]

With all of my system it is nowhere near what I'd hoped for. Light years better than stock but far from the crisp sound I wanted.

I will admit I am 100% stereo handicapped and just can not comprehend the language no matter how many times I've dug into it. I can't even adjust it! Someday I'll just take it over to my good buddy John in Michigan and let him do his magic.. Maybe it's just too easy? I've struggled all my life on the easy things. I do much better on un-complicating complicated matters. [emoji15]


Builder Of Badassery

[chief455]

With all of my system it is nowhere near what I'd hoped for. Light years better than stock but far from the crisp sound I wanted.

I will admit I am 100% stereo handicapped and just can not comprehend the language no matter how many times I've dug into it. I can't even adjust it! Someday I'll just take it over to my good buddy John in Michigan and let him do his magic.. Maybe it's just too easy? I've struggled all my life on the easy things. I do much better on un-complicating complicated matters. [emoji15]


Builder Of Badassery

WTF did you just say? wayyy too complicated ;)
I'm the same - no comprendo the stereo talk. I'll kep reading and upgrade my speakers at some point.
The engine sounds wonderful though, just the right watts, ohms, crossover etc.

[Davco]

True, but they have the best service and tech support that there is. Catch something on sale and Crutchfield is very competitive.

This. I know crutchfield can be expensive but you get a ton of install stuff for free and their customer service is the best. I've bought equipment from them for 10 years...always stuff on sale. I'd would say that Best Buy is the most expensive.

[Davco]

Infinity Reference 6832cf are 2 ohm impedance and may not be compatible with the Sony head unit you are looking at. The Sony head unit is power output rated at 4 ohms. Using a 2 ohm speaker on a 4 ohm unit may damage the amplifier especially at high volumes.

Thanks for the info. I looked into it and the speakers should be fine. Crutchfield explains it here in the details of the speaker. http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1086832CF/Infinity-Reference-6832cf.html?tp=93

[Fastbob]

Thanks for the info. I looked into it and the speakers should be fine. Crutchfield explains it here in the details of the speaker. http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1086832CF/Infinity-Reference-6832cf.html?tp=93Great! I skimmed through the speaker specs earlier and missed some of the info. Not sure how I missed it, but I did.

[2,4shofast]

I wouldn't run component speakers without an amp on them. Coaxial from a good brand will sound good.

[ctrlraven]

I wouldn't run component speakers without an amp on them. Coaxial from a good brand will sound good.
Agreed.

Under-driving speaker power can cause more damage to the voice coil than over-powering.

The closer the speaker rms wattage is to what you can actually put to it via HU power or amp power the better. The speaker will be able to achieve better sound reproduction when it's getting close to or adequate power.

I went with a very simple setup for mine, solid HU with front/rear/sub pre-outs, entry level 5.25" mb quart components up front (75 watt rms) woofer mounted in the door and tweeter mounted in the little triangle piece near the mirror on the doors, left the rear speakers stock to run off the HU (just as rear fill-in) and a 300 watt alpine 4-channel amp which the two front channels are driving the components (87 watts each) and the two rear channels bridged together to drive a cheap 12" in a sealed box (172 watts).

It's plenty enough to hear clearly over my loud ass exhaust and did not break the bank. To each their own though of course, but if you ever think you may upgrade down the road, factor that into your buying decisions as well so you don't do things twice.

[2,4shofast]

Agreed.

Under-driving speaker power can cause more damage to the voice coil than over-powering.

The closer the speaker rms wattage is to what you can actually put to it via HU power or amp power the better. The speaker will be able to achieve better sound reproduction when it's getting close to or adequate power.

I went with a very simple setup for mine, solid HU with front/rear/sub pre-outs, entry level 5.25" mb quart components up front (75 watt rms) woofer mounted in the door and tweeter mounted in the little triangle piece near the mirror on the doors, left the rear speakers stock to run off the HU (just as rear fill-in) and a 300 watt alpine 4-channel amp which the two front channels are driving the components (87 watts each) and the two rear channels bridged together to drive a cheap 12" in a sealed box (172 watts).

It's plenty enough to hear clearly over my loud ass exhaust and did not break the bank. To each their own though of course, but if you ever think you may upgrade down the road, factor that into your buying decisions as well so you don't do things twice.


What the Birdman said, make sure you don't get speakers that require more RMS than what the HU will distribute. I always shoot for 5 under spec'd RMS for HU's.

[jwibbity]

You will never blow a set of components by under powering unless your headunit (amplifier) is producing a severely clipped signal to damage the speaker which is usually caused by overcompensating for an underpowered system.

Underpowering a speaker alone will never hurt it.

40W RMS into a 80W RMS speaker will do just fine. You may not get rated volume but the speaker will be just fine.

You are more likely to damage a speaker overpowering it, then you will underpowering it.

[2,4shofast]

I'm referring to sound quality, you don't want to run a 80 rms speaker on a 40 rms hu, you will never get good range from it.

Clipping will destroy a speaker but unless you are buying an off brand power source it's pretty rare to have this happen anymore.

[Davco]

Well, I have decided that I will go with the infinity full range speakers. I am not sure that the work for a component set up (not that it's hard) is worth it over a full range set up. It would be different if I were running an amp. Thanks for the input.

[jwibbity]

I'm referring to sound quality, you don't want to run a 80 rms speaker on a 40 rms hu, you will never get good range from it.

Clipping will destroy a speaker but unless you are buying an off brand power source it's pretty rare to have this happen anymore.

When you say range do you mean the frequency range of said component or volume range??

A 80W RMS speaker running at 40W or 80W will barely have a difference in sound at low volume. Amplified components will "sound" better only because of the manipulation of the signal from the amp and the ability to retain said manipulation at higher volumes.

Ive ran an aftermarket head unit with stock speakers, coaxials, "underpowered" components, and now amplified components. The sound difference between the co-ax's and the components at low volume was negligible. Coax's showed the difference around 50% where as the underpowered comps where closer to 60-70%.

I definitely agree on the clipping also. Unless you have the ability to generate perfect square waves you will never blow an underpowered speaker with today's advanced speakers and amps.

Now I understand everybody ears are completely different but I love debating (:argue:) car audio. It makes me feel all gooey inside!

[1Marauder]

I wouldn't run component speakers without an amp on them. Coaxial from a good brand will sound good.


Was waiting for Jason to assist. His stereo can cure kidney stones. While he went deeper than most could ever hope--his outcome was the best I've ever heard.

BTW Jason, still waiting (and saving) to install the least expensive unit you will install. Remember that we will need to do it twice :)

[slickster]

I have one 400w amp powering 1 12 sub. every time the bass hits it pulsates lights! So with heavy amping you might need a bigger alternator. Just like horsepower the more you add the more stuff you need to add in order to handle it

[Fastbob]

I have one 400w amp powering 1 12 sub. every time the bass hits it pulsates lights! So with heavy amping you might need a bigger alternator. Just like horsepower the more you add the more stuff you need to add in order to handle itActually an additional battery or larger power cables should fix that.

[MOTOWN]

Actually an additional battery or larger power cables should fix that.

An additional battery is going to require a bigger stronger alternator to charge two batteries!

[Fastbob]

An additional battery is going to require a bigger stronger alternator to charge two batteries!Certainly you are correct, but just using a bigger alternator with one battery will not cure "brown outs" due to a large audio amplifier. Turning down the volume helps also.

[jwibbity]

I have one 400w amp powering 1 12 sub. every time the bass hits it pulsates lights! So with heavy amping you might need a bigger alternator. Just like horsepower the more you add the more stuff you need to add in order to handle it

You shouldn't be taxing your system that much with just 400W.

In a perfect world you should only be adding 27-33A extra on your system. (100% output & effeciency) Which at cruising speed shouldn't be an issue.

With an eaton swap the Big 3 should be done before you add any extra electronics.

[jwibbity]

Certainly you are correct, but just using a bigger alternator with one battery will not cure "brown outs" due to a large audio amplifier. Turning down the volume helps also.

A high output alternator with a battery is better than a stock alt with two batteries

Adding a second battery in his situation would actually make it worse

[Fastbob]

A high output alternator with a battery is better than a stock alt with two batteries

Adding a second battery in his situation would actually make it worseI would have to disagree with that, but hey we can agree to disagree.

[slickster]

I found them infinity refs in Amazon years ago for $40 a set. Put them in the old car. Sound was slightly better than factory with the audiophile hu at high volume

[jwibbity]

I would have to disagree with that, but hey we can agree to disagree.

How?? When the car is running your alternator is what keeps your voltage at ~14V. The dimming occurs when your alternator can not keep up with the current demand from electrical system and the voltage drops to the resting voltage of the batteries (~12.6V)

Adding a second battery won't do anything to stop the lights from dimming because it will still be the alternator that it be overwhelmed from the current draw.

[ctrlraven]

I have one 400w amp powering 1 12 sub. every time the bass hits it pulsates lights! So with heavy amping you might need a bigger alternator. Just like horsepower the more you add the more stuff you need to add in order to handle it
Do you know if your power/ground wire is OFC (oxygen free copper) or CCA (copper clad aluminum) wire? Where is amp ground where connected to?

Actually an additional battery or larger power cables should fix that.
Help? Yes. Fix? No.

An additional battery is going to require a bigger stronger alternator to charge two batteries!
Yep.

You shouldn't be taxing your system that much with just 400W.

In a perfect world you should only be adding 27-33A extra on your system. (100% output & effeciency) Which at cruising speed shouldn't be an issue.

With an eaton swap the Big 3 should be done before you add any extra electronics.
Big 3 is great for any vehicle, stock or modified. A 400 watt amp shouldn't be dimming the lights unless the power wire is garbage and/or the ground just isn't sufficient enough. I would relocate the ground to a better spot before doing anything else first.

[fastblackmerc]

Big 3 is great for any vehicle, stock or modified. A 400 watt amp shouldn't be dimming the lights unless the power wire garbage and/or the ground just isn't sufficient enough. I would relocate the ground to a better spot before doing anything else first.

I'm in the process of making a big 3 upgrade for a member. We'll see how it goes.

[JBeezy]

What size mid range did you put in the doors? I know it has 6x8/5x7 holes.
6x8 in the doors

[daddyusmaximus]

Was waiting for Jason to assist. His stereo can cure kidney stones. While he went deeper than most could ever hope--his outcome was the best I've ever heard.

BTW Jason, still waiting (and saving) to install the least expensive unit you will install. Remember that we will need to do it twice :)

Who is this Jason? I would love to see a high end install.

[Vortech347]

Component all the way. The stock stereo powered the infinities I put in just fine, but once I did an aftermarket deck with more juice they really came alive.

[8UWITH6]

There is no deck on this planet that even compares to about 300 watts of good clean power from an amplifier to a decent set of components in the front doors. You won't even need rear speakers.

[jwibbity]

There is no deck on this planet that even compares to about 300 watts of good clean power from an amplifier to a decent set of components in the front doors. You won't even need rear speakers.

Until you have to sit in the back, lol

Those big leather seats block alot of sound

[daddyusmaximus]

Pick up the first piece of the puzzle today. Got me the JL Audio C-525 components for the front doors.

[2,4shofast]

Who is this Jason? I would love to see a high end install.

He was referring to my install, I did a short demo for a few members at the Vegas meet. It isn't an over the top install just built for SQ and not SPL. Feel free to IM me and I can discuss further with you.

[daddyusmaximus]

He was referring to my install, I did a short demo for a few members at the Vegas meet. It isn't an over the top install just built for SQ and not SPL. Feel free to IM me and I can discuss further with you.

I would IM you if we were doing something you didn't want public like exchanging phone numbers, but I was thinking that info on the install would be of interest to many readers of the forum. Do you have a thread detailing your install?

[8UWITH6]

Until you have to sit in the back, lol

Those big leather seats block alot of sound

I agree thats why have some old 5.25s in the rear deck for rear fill for when I have passengers in the back seats. Otherwise, when its just me or me and the wife the front components do a majority of the work. SQ people will argue that you only have 2 ears so you only need 2 speakers.

[jwibbity]

I agree thats why have some old 5.25s in the rear deck for rear fill for when I have passengers in the back seats. Otherwise, when its just me or me and the wife the front components do a majority of the work. SQ people will argue that you only have 2 ears so you only need 2 speakers.


My fronts are out right now and im just running the rears in the deck, I hate it!!!

[2,4shofast]

I would IM you if we were doing something you didn't want public like exchanging phone numbers, but I was thinking that info on the install would be of interest to many readers of the forum. Do you have a thread detailing your install?

There isn't a lot of detail in the thread I had started, much of this has been tweaked over the years. My cardomain page use to be my reference for the install but I no longer use or update the site. Unfortunately like most of us; we do the work just don't take the pictures to share.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=55199
Big 3 Upgrade
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79942
Trunk Lid
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=57359

[2,4shofast]

I updated my photobucket with pics of the install, like I said this was a long time ago so some things have been changed. I didn't edit or remove any pics so it's overkill. Hope it helps.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/shofast/library/MM%20Audio

[Vortech347]

You should see Jason's install in person. Its top notch.

[daddyusmaximus]

If he's coming to the Louisville meet...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[2,4shofast]

You should see Jason's install in person. Its top notch.
Thanks brother!:beer:


If he's coming to the Louisville meet...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

I wish I was this year, I'm planning on making the drive next year. If it's an in depth install it would take me a few days so just drive out this way.:burnout: