Help! Marauder will not start

[1Marauder]

Had issue intermittently last year. Car would start w no issues at all... sometimes, and then not try to start other times. Car has only 17,000 miles and is like new. No splices in lines, or remote starters or anything. When it fired, the starter worked perfectly, never any noise or issues at all.

Car will not "turn over" -- has no starter action. Turn key--everything works but the starter doesnt even try. Some clicks can be heard (sounds electrical to me)

Battery was over 5 years old, so I replaced with brand new battery today, and even tried to jump the new battery.

I did change the brake light switch today... as the symptoms seemed to me to be brake peddle related (What a BIATCH that was with car on ground--anybody know a good chiropracter? And then I found the little black "collar" on the drivers floor of my car and then had to redo it! ) And the symptoms remained the same.

Brake lights work, car will shift into N, but car will not "try" to start.

Also tried both keys--so no pats issue (?)

No flashing theft lights or other stuff.

Checked fuse F2.9, and the fuses in F1 all realted to starter etc... they all look brand new-and have no issues.

I am STUMPED!!!! HELP AND ADVICE REQUESTED,

Maybe try to rock the car in Park--to reset the PARK? iS there another solenoid or starter relay I should replace?

Please HELP! I am stumped! Sill seems safety start or solenoid/relay related to me.

[8UWITH6]

Try a different key. See if it is a PAT's issue. Otherwise make sure you have 12V at the starter during cranking when it is acting up. If so replace starter.

[slickster]

Try Tapping on the starter a few times lightly with a hammer or something like that then see if it starts

[88LTDCV351]

Did you clean all your battery terminals?

[1Marauder]

Yes. Shiny new terminals, and super clean power clamps. All like new.

[Logizyme]

Try Tapping on the starter a few times lightly with a hammer or something like that then see if it starts

+1 on this.

[8UWITH6]

Did you verify battery voltage at the starter during "cranking"?

[1Marauder]

Not yet, thank you. Car is currently stored/garaged and has no access to passenger side.

Will have to push it out next weekend. I did double checked all fuses, ground connections, and relay connections.

Besides tapping starter (which I cannot acces yet either) any other ideas?

[1Marauder]

Still steaming here. Bump for magic bullet.

[8UWITH6]

Check the basics and get back with us. We cannot fix this over the internet. Happy to help with more information. I know its frustrating.

[WhatsUpDOHC]

Here's a thread.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=38429

Have you tried what's identified in post 2?

[justbob]

Still steaming here. Bump for magic bullet.


Do as 8UWITH6 said. This is auto diagnostics 101 and the best advice yet... Anything else is guessing and a blatant waste of time and thought.

This is probably the easiest problem their is to chase next to a burned out light bulb.


Builder Of Badassery

[fastblackmerc]

Did you replace the starter relay? It's #302 in the Power Distribution Box (under the hood, behind the battery). Try swapping it with #303 or #304.

[robertmoreno14]

try jumping the starter relay with the key on...

[8UWITH6]

Or verify 12 volts at the starter!!!!!!!! Then work from there when you get your answer.

[1Marauder]

First off, thank you all of you for assistance. I did do everything I could get to, and almost everything you suggested first thing this AM. I was on the road all week and flew home last night, so this was as fast as I could get to it.

Great team giving great advice. Following-up, or as the great Paul Harvey used to say, "The RRRRest of the story!"

I must be honest--this morning with sleep in my eyes and only on my second cup of coffee -- I cussed the car out, and told it (truthfully) that if it didnt want to start--it didn't really want me as its owner.

I then switched out/exchanged the starter relay from 302 to 304 (thank you FastBleckMerc), and Bam(!) it started with ease on the first turn!

I backed it out, let it warm up for 10 minutes, put Stabil in tank, drove and filled it with gas (never turned it off), drove it like a wildman for an hour, stopped at local Ford Dealer and bought a new relay (letting it idle the whole time), made an appointment to have the starter checked, and drove it back to storage driveway (again, letting it idle). I then tapped (maybe a little more forceful than a tap) on the Starter six or seven times, and pulled it back into the tight fit storage.

Turned it off. Replaced /switched out relays again, pulled 304, puit 302 back into 304, and the new relay in 302... And it started right up. The sound and tone of starter engaging was much "higher toned" and "lighter sounding" and "easier" than I ever recalled it being, so I started the cold dormant Silver sitting right next to it to compare--and they sounded the exactly the same.

I then started the Black 15 times in a row (probably 6 months worth), and it engaged and fired up on first turn every time.

I didn't have the reader to test the battery/power draw at the starter and didn't have access to a lift today. Car is too low and my arms are to short to do it from side or top. Figure if it doesn't start again next time, or next week when I can get access to a lift, I will test it ASAP.

Again, thank you for ALL of the advice, it was all spot on and it all helped a ton!

PS I let it cool down, and went back 2 hours later and it started on first turn.

THANK YOU ALL--THANK YOU ALL--THANK YOU ALL again for assisting.

PS Driving like a wild man today... I felt bad for "breaking bad" with the car--it is such a SWEET RIDE! Turned 17.800 today.

[1Marauder]

Started easily again tonight, drove it to go look at Christmas lights and patrol the neighborhood.

THANKS AGAIN ALL. You helped greatly>

[8UWITH6]

Relay's hardly ever fail......... hope you fixed it though.

[1Marauder]

Agreed! I will check the voltage draw at the starter first chance I get. Thank you again.

PS I did notice also that my lighs do not dim when I floor-it on the freeway anymore. Probably has to do with brand new powerful battery and checking cleaning all leads/grounds/connections.

[03blackvegas]

Higher mileage cars can be a problem.

[fastblackmerc]

Relay's hardly ever fail......... hope you fixed it though.

Relays DO fail!

[8UWITH6]

I'm not going to argue with you guys. Good luck OP.

[fastblackmerc]

I'm not going to argue with you guys. Good luck OP.

No argument :beer:, just pointing out.... no headlights = relay failure, no foglights = relay failure, no start issue = relay failure.

:D.

[1Marauder]

Higher mileage cars can be a problem.

??????????

[03blackvegas]

??????????

I'm always going to kid you because I have less miles, I hope I don't have to keep explaining this. :banana:

[Marauderjack]

No argument :beer:, just pointing out.... no headlights = relay failure, no foglights = relay failure, no start issue = relay failure.:D.

No AC compressor = relay failure!!!:mad2:

[1Marauder]

I'm always going to kid you because I have less miles, I hope I don't have to keep explaining this. :banana:



How many miles do you have now? I think you are gaining on me!

[03blackvegas]

How many miles do you have now? I think you are gaining on me!

12,750, but while I'm gaining, I'm actually enjoying the drive time. :beer:

[1Marauder]

YES, You need to drive it half was accross the USA--Route 66 Baby!

[03blackvegas]

YES, You need to drive it half was accross the USA--Route 66 Baby!

I have always wanted to do something like that, Power Tour would be high on the list.

[1Marauder]

Update. Seems it was the relay!

Car starting and running better than ever!

I've given it much thought, "Are relays truly binary?" "Why is there no schedule to replace them? And why, when some system fails, wouldn't easily testing/replacing an integral and mandatory $11 part not be THE fist step in the solution set?"

Wouldn't replacing them ALL help a 12 year old car? We spend $1000's elsewhere, and overlook these?

I found new OEM relays for just $11 each!

Just thinking out loud.

[Marauderjack]

Warranty period is 3 years and even though relays and switches can fail.....most don't for many, many years and some maybe never!!:shake:

I learned this "relay lesson" with a lazy AC compressor.......switched 2 relays and it was fixed but only after trying numerous other things......just part of our "Learning Curve"!!;)

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!:xtree:

[Crown Vicman]

Update. Seems it was the relay!

Car starting and running better than ever!

I've given it much thought, "Are relays truly binary?" "Why is there no schedule to replace them? And why, when some system fails, wouldn't easily testing/replacing an integral and mandatory $11 part not be THE fist step in the solution set?"

Wouldn't replacing them ALL help a 12 year old car? We spend $1000's elsewhere, and overlook these?

I found new OEM relays for just $11 each!

Just thinking out loud.

Well mainly because of what MarauderJack said, relays rarely fail. Sure you can go out your way to replace every relay on your vehicle, but chances of the other relays going out are very low.

[justbob]

Update. Seems it was the relay!

Car starting and running better than ever!

I've given it much thought, "Are relays truly binary?" "Why is there no schedule to replace them? And why, when some system fails, wouldn't easily testing/replacing an integral and mandatory $11 part not be THE fist step in the solution set?"

Wouldn't replacing them ALL help a 12 year old car? We spend $1000's elsewhere, and overlook these?

I found new OEM relays for just $11 each!

Just thinking out loud.


Absolutely not. That's throwing parts at something. The first step is diagnostics...

And exactly how could it be starting and running better than ever with a new relay? Is this based on it now starting and running? LOL

Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk

[1Marauder]

Absolutely not. That's throwing parts at something. The first step is diagnostics...

And exactly how could it be starting and running better than ever with a new relay? Is this based on it now starting and running? LOL

Sent from my iThrone using Tapatalk


Not trying to be snarky at all.

Yes, and the "starter not activating" diagnostics should include a relay test (switch relays or test w/new alternate relay) as FastBlackMerc suggested. Easy, fast, simple, cheap, and an effective test.

From follow up post above, I am sure it running better has to do with the brand new battery, the connections and grounds being checked and cleaned, and yes--agree that starting is a primary issue to running well.

Side affects of all combined work listed above--no more lights dimming when flooring it on freeway, brighter headlights overall, easier-faster-lighter starting from cold (weeks later).

I guess my query was tied to general electrical malaise or age of electrical parts such as relays. If lights were dimming at full throtle--as many have witnessed and ascribed, doesn't this in itself indicate a simple loss/ruduction of electricity, no matter how slight?

And if these were fixed and corrected--wouldn't that indicate the reverse? That it is running more effectively and efficiently?

I am not saying that everyone should run out and replace thier relays, only that for a relatively small amount of money these can be deleted from the possible list of causation (or possible causes) in the solution set to help fix other larger problems. AND if the relay is not truly binary--can it then have degrees of effectiveness/ineffectiveness that can therefore be enhanced by replacing with a new OEM relay?

I wrote in my primary HELP post that my first inclination/assumption to my initial non-start issue was that it was electrical in nature, not mechanical.

Simply trying to help others with my first hand experience.

And please know I was thinking out loud: I saw it this way.

2003 vs 2015 auto-same car, same build, same everything. Older car is extremely clean and low miles (let's say a very low 60,000 miles). If you switched all of the fuses and relays between the two cars--do you think the older car-with the new relays would start/run better? And conversely, do you think the new 2015 car with the 13 year old and used relays would run them same as showroom?

It would make sense that these parts age along with the rest of the car, yes?

[Marauderjack]

Glad ya got it sorted out........old batteries and bad grounds also play havoc on relays and starters!!:argue:

Old car with new relays and suspension stuff means more FUN DRIVING!!:burnout::beer::D

[8UWITH6]

I guess my query was tied to general electrical malaise or age of electrical parts such as relays. If lights were dimming at full throtle--as many have witnessed and ascribed, doesn't this in itself indicate a simple loss/ruduction of electricity, no matter how slight?



Just an FYI since it hasn't been mentioned yet...........These cars shut the alternator off at WOT causing your dimming lights. It is normal.

[1Marauder]

Just an FYI since it hasn't been mentioned yet...........These cars shut the alternator off at WOT causing your dimming lights. It is normal.

Just asking... How does the alternator know car is at full throttle? Does this shut off run through a relay too?

[Mike M]

Your PCM knows everything via the TPS in this case.

[FordNut]

Just asking... How does the alternator know car is at full throttle? Does this shut off run through a relay too?


Your PCM knows everything via the TPS in this case.

And no relay, these cars control the alternator thru the PCM. It sends a pulsed signal to the alternator. The PCM determines the duty cycle for the alternator to operate. The somewhat unique voltage regulators are different from Mustangs, so if you get a new alternator from the auto parts place it may not work. It will plug in and it will put out 14 volts all the time. And it will throw a check engine code and the alternator light will come on. I believe the connector color is one way to tell if it's the right regulator.

[MOTOWN]

Just an FYI since it hasn't been mentioned yet...........These cars shut the alternator off at WOT causing your dimming lights. It is normal.

This is not true, some aftermarket tunes shut off the alternator at wot , from the factory tune the alternator is left on.

[Mike M]

Also I believe the A/C compressor shuts off at WOT as well.

[Spectragod]

This is not true, some aftermarket tunes shut off the alternator at wot , from the factory tune the alternator is left on.

IIRC from the Ford class I attended, all Panther platform cars from 2003 and up, shut off the alternator at WOT. If it has a clutched alternator, it shuts off, of course, I was told this by a Ford engineer, he was probably wrong. The class was done at our facility, Ford provided the engineer and materials, and I remember that we did ask about civilian cars, at that time he confirmed it, but maybe something changed. :confused:

[MOTOWN]

IIRC from the Ford class I attended, all Panther platform cars from 2003 and up, shut off the alternator at WOT. If it has a clutched alternator, it shuts off, of course, I was told this by a Ford engineer, he was probably wrong. The class was done at our facility, Ford provided the engineer and materials, and I remember that we did ask about civilian cars, at that time he confirmed it, but maybe something changed. :confused:

Another common myth , the clutch has nothing to do with the alternator being on , or off , it allows the alternator to freewheel if you suddenly get off the throttle saving the belt, and the alternator does not shut off in the stock tune.

[MOTOWN]

Here's a good read http://www.alternativeauto.com/Marauder_Tune.html

[8UWITH6]

My stock as stock can be Blue did it. That's all I got. ****er out! I wonder how many years the relay that was purchased for you starter sat on the shelf.

[Spectragod]

Another common myth , the clutch has nothing to do with the alternator being on , or off , it allows the alternator to freewheel if you suddenly get off the throttle saving the belt, and the alternator does not shut off in the stock tune.

It does on the P71's, guaranteed, the Ford Engineer said the others did as well. I know why the clutched pulley is on it........ just repeating what I was told.

[MOTOWN]

It does on the P71's, guaranteed, the Ford Engineer said the others did as well. I know why the clutched pulley is on it........ just repeating what I was told.

Yes on the p71 it was part of the police package, it didn't help much though i remember after pursuits that went longer than 10 minutes the p71s would overheat , and the front rotors would smoke like charcoal! Lol