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Thread: Throttle Position Sensor on our cars?

  1. #1
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    Throttle Position Sensor on our cars?

    Hey guys, I drive my MM only a few days a month now, so havenít checked in for a long time (as usual, sorry!). I still have a lot of small jobs to get done on it and need to get off my butt and just do it, but generally itís running pretty well.

    Great to save gas at $4.20 gal, but also not good as problems can sneak up on you from it sitting.

    Anyway, I think my car needs a new throttle position sensor, or whatever Ford calls it. I replaced one 6 months ago on a Hyundai that was doing exactly what my MM is doing now.

    That is, driving cold only (with cruise control on for consistency, to take my foot out of the equation), while watching the ScanGauge report RPM about once every 2 seconds: 1750 - 1980 - 1875 - 1700 - 1810 - 1865 - 2000 - 1790, etc., etc. You can feel the car surging and falling off slightly each time. Jump on the freeway and take it to a consistent 2500 RPM for a few miles, and problem goes away, but as soon as you come to a full stop the engine can just die. Starts right away, dies again. After you coax it for a while it seems to run fine and idles OK without dying.

    All this is intermittent. Oh, and while the RPM is surging, the MPG stops calculating, shows 9999 mpg while itís trying to figure out what the engine is doing.

    If there is such a sensor for our cars, please let me know and if you know where to find it on the engine. I searched RockAuto and donít see a part with this specific name. ďSpeed sensorĒ maybe?

    Thanks for any info!

    Norm




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    2003 black pre-decontented 300B #5886 of 7838; Born on 10/31/02
    MartyO tune, 4:10's, T/A stud & girdle, MMX shaft+DS loop, Metco control arms, Quickor RSB, Addco FSB, Megs delete tips, Granatelli solid coil connectors, NGK plugs & LP 170 stat, DR rear engine cooling mod, PI 3000 TC, Level II tranny, Art Carr deep pan, Steeda pullies/billet caps, billet door locks, Ford Racing oil cap / polished coil covers, PHP CAK & Metco carbon fiber intake, DG Motorsports CF radiator cover, Fumoto oil drain valve, oil deflector, real Autometer gauges, ScanGauge II, Weatherflectors, underbody lighting kit, Zack chrome grill, OEM spoiler & door edge guards, KB dead pedal, Dynopro aluminum sills & pedals, Viper alarm w/ remote start, MM fender badges, red painted calipers, SS inserts, Silverstar Ultras, hood bumpers, 35% tints, Gorilla lug nuts, MM valve caps, Pro-Guard, DD trunk lid liner, CM UHI kit, CM Godshead rear & steering wheel badges, S-55 badge, FilterMag, MM trunk bib, ported sub-woofer.

  2. #2
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    Throttle position sensor is located on the throttle body and has two allen head bolts. Super easy to change out. My car was surging at idle with the AC running so I changed that out, the idle air control valve and cleaned the MAF. Problem is gone.
    2003 Mercury Marauder 300A
    Former Owner: Joe Walsh

    2015 Mustang GT PP
    Guard Metallic Exterior

    2018 F-150 King Ranch
    2WD, 3.5 EcoBeast

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan86 View Post
    Throttle position sensor is located on the throttle body and has two allen head bolts. Super easy to change out. My car was surging at idle with the AC running so I changed that out, the idle air control valve and cleaned the MAF. Problem is gone.
    Thanks Logan. I clean the MAF periodically when I oil the air filter. Iíll look for one at my LPS. Not sure what or where the idle control valve is, but Iíll ask for one of those as well.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2003 black pre-decontented 300B #5886 of 7838; Born on 10/31/02
    MartyO tune, 4:10's, T/A stud & girdle, MMX shaft+DS loop, Metco control arms, Quickor RSB, Addco FSB, Megs delete tips, Granatelli solid coil connectors, NGK plugs & LP 170 stat, DR rear engine cooling mod, PI 3000 TC, Level II tranny, Art Carr deep pan, Steeda pullies/billet caps, billet door locks, Ford Racing oil cap / polished coil covers, PHP CAK & Metco carbon fiber intake, DG Motorsports CF radiator cover, Fumoto oil drain valve, oil deflector, real Autometer gauges, ScanGauge II, Weatherflectors, underbody lighting kit, Zack chrome grill, OEM spoiler & door edge guards, KB dead pedal, Dynopro aluminum sills & pedals, Viper alarm w/ remote start, MM fender badges, red painted calipers, SS inserts, Silverstar Ultras, hood bumpers, 35% tints, Gorilla lug nuts, MM valve caps, Pro-Guard, DD trunk lid liner, CM UHI kit, CM Godshead rear & steering wheel badges, S-55 badge, FilterMag, MM trunk bib, ported sub-woofer.

  4. #4
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    It's right there next to the TPS so if you do them both at the same time you will be good.
    2003 Mercury Marauder 300A
    Former Owner: Joe Walsh

    2015 Mustang GT PP
    Guard Metallic Exterior

    2018 F-150 King Ranch
    2WD, 3.5 EcoBeast

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan86 View Post
    It's right there next to the TPS so if you do them both at the same time you will be good.
    Thanks Logan.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2003 black pre-decontented 300B #5886 of 7838; Born on 10/31/02
    MartyO tune, 4:10's, T/A stud & girdle, MMX shaft+DS loop, Metco control arms, Quickor RSB, Addco FSB, Megs delete tips, Granatelli solid coil connectors, NGK plugs & LP 170 stat, DR rear engine cooling mod, PI 3000 TC, Level II tranny, Art Carr deep pan, Steeda pullies/billet caps, billet door locks, Ford Racing oil cap / polished coil covers, PHP CAK & Metco carbon fiber intake, DG Motorsports CF radiator cover, Fumoto oil drain valve, oil deflector, real Autometer gauges, ScanGauge II, Weatherflectors, underbody lighting kit, Zack chrome grill, OEM spoiler & door edge guards, KB dead pedal, Dynopro aluminum sills & pedals, Viper alarm w/ remote start, MM fender badges, red painted calipers, SS inserts, Silverstar Ultras, hood bumpers, 35% tints, Gorilla lug nuts, MM valve caps, Pro-Guard, DD trunk lid liner, CM UHI kit, CM Godshead rear & steering wheel badges, S-55 badge, FilterMag, MM trunk bib, ported sub-woofer.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan86 View Post
    It's right there next to the TPS so if you do them both at the same time you will be good.
    I did the TPS and believe that fixed it, no more surging. Iíll keep an eye on it and also change the idle air control valve if it happens again.

    Thanks again for the information Logan.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2003 black pre-decontented 300B #5886 of 7838; Born on 10/31/02
    MartyO tune, 4:10's, T/A stud & girdle, MMX shaft+DS loop, Metco control arms, Quickor RSB, Addco FSB, Megs delete tips, Granatelli solid coil connectors, NGK plugs & LP 170 stat, DR rear engine cooling mod, PI 3000 TC, Level II tranny, Art Carr deep pan, Steeda pullies/billet caps, billet door locks, Ford Racing oil cap / polished coil covers, PHP CAK & Metco carbon fiber intake, DG Motorsports CF radiator cover, Fumoto oil drain valve, oil deflector, real Autometer gauges, ScanGauge II, Weatherflectors, underbody lighting kit, Zack chrome grill, OEM spoiler & door edge guards, KB dead pedal, Dynopro aluminum sills & pedals, Viper alarm w/ remote start, MM fender badges, red painted calipers, SS inserts, Silverstar Ultras, hood bumpers, 35% tints, Gorilla lug nuts, MM valve caps, Pro-Guard, DD trunk lid liner, CM UHI kit, CM Godshead rear & steering wheel badges, S-55 badge, FilterMag, MM trunk bib, ported sub-woofer.

  7. #7
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    No worries, I'm glad to see it worked out!
    2003 Mercury Marauder 300A
    Former Owner: Joe Walsh

    2015 Mustang GT PP
    Guard Metallic Exterior

    2018 F-150 King Ranch
    2WD, 3.5 EcoBeast

  8. #8
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    Yep, no more surging, but after a cold start and on the freeway at 2500 RPM for ten miles, then pull off the road and brake the engine dies immediately.

    I went ahead and replaced the idle air control valve as well. That and the TPS seem to give up together.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2003 black pre-decontented 300B #5886 of 7838; Born on 10/31/02
    MartyO tune, 4:10's, T/A stud & girdle, MMX shaft+DS loop, Metco control arms, Quickor RSB, Addco FSB, Megs delete tips, Granatelli solid coil connectors, NGK plugs & LP 170 stat, DR rear engine cooling mod, PI 3000 TC, Level II tranny, Art Carr deep pan, Steeda pullies/billet caps, billet door locks, Ford Racing oil cap / polished coil covers, PHP CAK & Metco carbon fiber intake, DG Motorsports CF radiator cover, Fumoto oil drain valve, oil deflector, real Autometer gauges, ScanGauge II, Weatherflectors, underbody lighting kit, Zack chrome grill, OEM spoiler & door edge guards, KB dead pedal, Dynopro aluminum sills & pedals, Viper alarm w/ remote start, MM fender badges, red painted calipers, SS inserts, Silverstar Ultras, hood bumpers, 35% tints, Gorilla lug nuts, MM valve caps, Pro-Guard, DD trunk lid liner, CM UHI kit, CM Godshead rear & steering wheel badges, S-55 badge, FilterMag, MM trunk bib, ported sub-woofer.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svashtar View Post
    Yep, no more surging, but after a cold start and on the freeway at 2500 RPM for ten miles, then pull off the road and brake the engine dies immediately.

    I went ahead and replaced the idle air control valve as well. That and the TPS seem to give up together.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You can adjust the TPS to the optimal 0.98 setting for idle but as long as it is anywhere in the ballpark the PCM will adapt. If you got one that is way far out of range it would definitely cause a stall.

    Just turn the ignition on but donít start it. Back probe the middle TPS wire with a small pick and touch the red lead from a multimeter to it and ground the black. To adjust, loosen the two screws and twist the whole TPS in what ever direction you need relying on the slop in the holes.

    Mine was around .50, so bad I just drilled the brass sleeves out to allow more adjustment.


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    Cobra short block / ProCharger F1-A / Cog drive upgrade / Manley valves / Brian Tooley Racing valve springs / 80# inj. / -8 fuel line / -6 return / Aeromotive 340 pumps and regulator / 2012 GT500 TR6060 six speed / twin disc clutch / Driveshaft Shop GT500 upgraded CV joint shaft / BA5000 blow thru MAF/ 4.10's / Ford Racing 31 spline set up and Girdle / Metco D.S. safety loop / Stainless Works headers, cats, and everything else out back / ClassGlass hood / Bob's hood strut mod / Hurst line lock / Metco control arms / Addco front and rear sway bars / Monroe severe duty shocks all around / Race concepts rotors / Badgeless grille / 35% tint / FBM's interior LED kit and ambient lighting kit / Pioneer FB700 deck / kenwood speaker 4 Ch. / Rockford Fosgate 10" sub and amp / Kicker 6 X 8's all around / back up cam / bluetooth / Pioneer Xm / 704 RWHP 603 RWTQ tuned by Mo's Speedshop.

  10. #10
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    Throttle Position Sensor on our cars?

    Quote Originally Posted by justbob View Post
    You can adjust the TPS to the optimal 0.98 setting for idle but as long as it is anywhere in the ballpark the PCM will adapt. If you got one that is way far out of range it would definitely cause a stall.

    Just turn the ignition on but donít start it. Back probe the middle TPS wire with a small pick and touch the red lead from a multimeter to it and ground the black. To adjust, loosen the two screws and twist the whole TPS in what ever direction you need relying on the slop in the holes.

    Mine was around .50, so bad I just drilled the brass sleeves out to allow more adjustment.


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    Thanks Bob, I didnít realize it was adjustable. I just aligned mine the way I had to with the holes in the throttle body, which meant I had to turn it clockwise (downwards) a fraction against a little spring tension. Iíll try your tip and verify what Iím getting.

    The car has been stalling in this manner (after starting cold and running smoothly at mid to high RPM for 10 minutes then coming to an abrupt stop and idle) since before I got the new TPS and idle air control valve, so after replacing the TPS I assumed itís the air valve, but appreciate the info.


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    Last edited by Svashtar; 07-12-2019 at 01:01 AM.
    2003 black pre-decontented 300B #5886 of 7838; Born on 10/31/02
    MartyO tune, 4:10's, T/A stud & girdle, MMX shaft+DS loop, Metco control arms, Quickor RSB, Addco FSB, Megs delete tips, Granatelli solid coil connectors, NGK plugs & LP 170 stat, DR rear engine cooling mod, PI 3000 TC, Level II tranny, Art Carr deep pan, Steeda pullies/billet caps, billet door locks, Ford Racing oil cap / polished coil covers, PHP CAK & Metco carbon fiber intake, DG Motorsports CF radiator cover, Fumoto oil drain valve, oil deflector, real Autometer gauges, ScanGauge II, Weatherflectors, underbody lighting kit, Zack chrome grill, OEM spoiler & door edge guards, KB dead pedal, Dynopro aluminum sills & pedals, Viper alarm w/ remote start, MM fender badges, red painted calipers, SS inserts, Silverstar Ultras, hood bumpers, 35% tints, Gorilla lug nuts, MM valve caps, Pro-Guard, DD trunk lid liner, CM UHI kit, CM Godshead rear & steering wheel badges, S-55 badge, FilterMag, MM trunk bib, ported sub-woofer.

  11. #11
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    The only other things that quickly come to mind in my tiny head that would cause those exact symptoms is weak line pressure in the trans causing torque converter issues. They can hang a bit when hot and stopping abruptly, and normally hit or miss or require just the right braking conditions to stall the engine.

    A weak charging system can play hell once warmed up and definitely affect idle.

    If your air or defrost is on and the tune doesnít quite bump the idle up enough to accommodate it.

    Fuel delivery, but normally that is more pronounced when WOT.




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    Cobra short block / ProCharger F1-A / Cog drive upgrade / Manley valves / Brian Tooley Racing valve springs / 80# inj. / -8 fuel line / -6 return / Aeromotive 340 pumps and regulator / 2012 GT500 TR6060 six speed / twin disc clutch / Driveshaft Shop GT500 upgraded CV joint shaft / BA5000 blow thru MAF/ 4.10's / Ford Racing 31 spline set up and Girdle / Metco D.S. safety loop / Stainless Works headers, cats, and everything else out back / ClassGlass hood / Bob's hood strut mod / Hurst line lock / Metco control arms / Addco front and rear sway bars / Monroe severe duty shocks all around / Race concepts rotors / Badgeless grille / 35% tint / FBM's interior LED kit and ambient lighting kit / Pioneer FB700 deck / kenwood speaker 4 Ch. / Rockford Fosgate 10" sub and amp / Kicker 6 X 8's all around / back up cam / bluetooth / Pioneer Xm / 704 RWHP 603 RWTQ tuned by Mo's Speedshop.

  12. #12
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    just for the record there is no optimal closed throttle position voltage. People that claim .98 volts or 1 volts or xxx volts have no idea what they are talking about.

    The ford ecu saves the lowest throttle position voltage it sees at key on as RATCH so long as it does not exceed RATIV. In most stock calibrations that means that as long as the closed throttle tps voltage is between 0.7 volts (min default tps volts) and 1.25 volts (RATIV) it is PERFECTLY WITHIN SPEC. There is nothing to be gained or lost by adjusting the throttle position sensor to reach any desired voltage its just lunacy and has absolutely no affect on anything.

    If your rpm was surging while at steady throttle cruise then that would be most likely a misfire. Misfiring would most likely be an ignition fault more times than not. If this occurs after sitting a while its most likely burning some oil causing it. Its common for the 4v engines to have leaking valve seals and if worn enough will cause a substantial amount of oil to leak past after sitting for a couple weeks. Very common issue. If it subsides after driving it for a while then most likely its the valve seals.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by decipha View Post
    just for the record there is no optimal closed throttle position voltage. People that claim .98 volts or 1 volts or xxx volts have no idea what they are talking about.

    The ford ecu saves the lowest throttle position voltage it sees at key on as RATCH so long as it does not exceed RATIV. In most stock calibrations that means that as long as the closed throttle tps voltage is between 0.7 volts (min default tps volts) and 1.25 volts (RATIV) it is PERFECTLY WITHIN SPEC. There is nothing to be gained or lost by adjusting the throttle position sensor to reach any desired voltage its just lunacy and has absolutely no affect on anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by justbob View Post
    You can adjust the TPS to the optimal 0.98 setting for idle but as long as it is ANYWHERE IN THE BALLPARK THE PCM WILL ADAPT. If you got one that is way far out of range it would definitely cause a stall.

    Just turn the ignition on but donít start it. Back probe the middle TPS wire with a small pick and touch the red lead from a multimeter to it and ground the black. To adjust, loosen the two screws and twist the whole TPS in what ever direction you need relying on the slop in the holes.

    MINE WAS AROUND .50, so bad I just drilled the brass sleeves out to allow more adjustment.


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    Cobra short block / ProCharger F1-A / Cog drive upgrade / Manley valves / Brian Tooley Racing valve springs / 80# inj. / -8 fuel line / -6 return / Aeromotive 340 pumps and regulator / 2012 GT500 TR6060 six speed / twin disc clutch / Driveshaft Shop GT500 upgraded CV joint shaft / BA5000 blow thru MAF/ 4.10's / Ford Racing 31 spline set up and Girdle / Metco D.S. safety loop / Stainless Works headers, cats, and everything else out back / ClassGlass hood / Bob's hood strut mod / Hurst line lock / Metco control arms / Addco front and rear sway bars / Monroe severe duty shocks all around / Race concepts rotors / Badgeless grille / 35% tint / FBM's interior LED kit and ambient lighting kit / Pioneer FB700 deck / kenwood speaker 4 Ch. / Rockford Fosgate 10" sub and amp / Kicker 6 X 8's all around / back up cam / bluetooth / Pioneer Xm / 704 RWHP 603 RWTQ tuned by Mo's Speedshop.

  14. #14
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    I didn't mean to offend I didn't quote you because I wasn't directing anything towards you.

    I was simply stating that as long as the closed throttle tps voltage is between 0.7 and 1.25 volts its perfect and does not require any adjustment.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by decipha View Post
    just for the record there is no optimal closed throttle position voltage. People that claim .98 volts or 1 volts or xxx volts have no idea what they are talking about.

    The ford ecu saves the lowest throttle position voltage it sees at key on as RATCH so long as it does not exceed RATIV. In most stock calibrations that means that as long as the closed throttle tps voltage is between 0.7 volts (min default tps volts) and 1.25 volts (RATIV) it is PERFECTLY WITHIN SPEC. There is nothing to be gained or lost by adjusting the throttle position sensor to reach any desired voltage its just lunacy and has absolutely no affect on anything.

    If your rpm was surging while at steady throttle cruise then that would be most likely a misfire. Misfiring would most likely be an ignition fault more times than not. If this occurs after sitting a while its most likely burning some oil causing it. Its common for the 4v engines to have leaking valve seals and if worn enough will cause a substantial amount of oil to leak past after sitting for a couple weeks. Very common issue. If it subsides after driving it for a while then most likely its the valve seals.
    I appreciate the info, but as outlined in the OP, it doesnít happen after sitting, and a misfire (and I know what that sounds and feels like), wouldnít cause the RPM to go from 1680 to 2010 to 1950 to 1720 to 1830 and back again multiple times (as polled by the ScanGauge 30 times a minute) while running with cruise control on. Replacing the TPS fixed the surging completely. Even though Iím no mechanic, based on the exact same experience with another car, I kind of expected that frankly.

    In any case if it were leaking valve seals I would see oil loss as it blew out the tailpipe, not to mention blue smoke, and after replacing the OF housing gasket it hasnít lost a drop.

    I replaced the idle air valve yesterday, but wonít repeat the conditions where itís been stalling until this morning, so weíll see.

    Even that wonít be 100% definitive, because Iíve had to drive it with the stock tune (with 4:10 gears) for the past week to get it ready for itís two year smog, which requires all tests to be passed to give a ďno codes found, readyĒ condition. I hate to confuse the car that way, but the ABS has been out for repair anyway.

    The acid test will be after I reflash it with Martyís tune and repeat the same drive with the new IACV.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2003 black pre-decontented 300B #5886 of 7838; Born on 10/31/02
    MartyO tune, 4:10's, T/A stud & girdle, MMX shaft+DS loop, Metco control arms, Quickor RSB, Addco FSB, Megs delete tips, Granatelli solid coil connectors, NGK plugs & LP 170 stat, DR rear engine cooling mod, PI 3000 TC, Level II tranny, Art Carr deep pan, Steeda pullies/billet caps, billet door locks, Ford Racing oil cap / polished coil covers, PHP CAK & Metco carbon fiber intake, DG Motorsports CF radiator cover, Fumoto oil drain valve, oil deflector, real Autometer gauges, ScanGauge II, Weatherflectors, underbody lighting kit, Zack chrome grill, OEM spoiler & door edge guards, KB dead pedal, Dynopro aluminum sills & pedals, Viper alarm w/ remote start, MM fender badges, red painted calipers, SS inserts, Silverstar Ultras, hood bumpers, 35% tints, Gorilla lug nuts, MM valve caps, Pro-Guard, DD trunk lid liner, CM UHI kit, CM Godshead rear & steering wheel badges, S-55 badge, FilterMag, MM trunk bib, ported sub-woofer.

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