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Thread: head removal?

  1. #1
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    head removal?

    I have an '04 with 93,800 miles, original owner and the timing chain tensioner let go on the passenger side, made a god awful sound, it was so loud that my neighbor came over later and thought something exploded. The car would not restart after this.

    Current situation, I pulled the rocker covers and the timing chain cover and yes I have confirmed that there is no plastic left on the top/inboard RH tensioner. I took my $10 borescope and looked inside each cylinder on the RH side and I saw no evidence of a valve strike, however.... if I turn the engine over by hand the engine binds when a piston comes to the top and the chain between the cams (RH) gets slack on the top while the bottom of the chain is taught. The left side both the top and bottom seem to be equally taught.

    The tensioners on the LH side look normal.

    I believe I am at a point were the head needs to come off and go to a machine shop to be repaired, the problem is looking through the service manual, the manual says the engine has to come out to remove the heads. Since removing the engine from the car is beyond my abilities and I don't have the equipment to do so I am looking to find out if it is possible to pull the head without pulling the engine?

    Any suggestions or am I screwed and need to pull the engine?

    Thanks
    NJ

  2. #2
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    I don't have an answer for you but the slack in the chain may be because the tensioners don't have oil pressure in them?
    You "feel" the difference because you want to "feel" the difference. Since you just spent money on the upgrade you "have" to feel the difference

    I'm looking to eliminate the double pump process I have to follow right now to get the pedal hard

    2004 300A Procharger #0010 D1X
    2003 300A Procharger #0017 D1SC (SOLD. Last I heard, it was in Washington State)

  3. #3
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    head removal?

    While not fun due to weight I removed my drivers head even with the header still attached but I haven’t had the need to do the passenger. I’m pretty sure it’s not an issue. The book says to remove engine because it’s no doubt an easier way.


    Did you shut off the engine or did it shut itself down? When you say the car wouldn’t start do you mean it wouldn’t even crank?

    Sounds like the ratcheting mechanism broke inside the tensioner and yes you would need a constant stream of oil pressure to even come close to keep it tensioned while running and no doubt it would always be trying to collapse.

    I can’t see any valves being bent if you don’t see any signs of PTV carnage. The stock pistons would typically shatter like glass. Luckily for me I had just swapped to a Cobra short block a day prior to royally bending 5 new stainless valves and she walked away with a tiny scratch and perhaps a scuff on a couple of pistons, hardly even enough to see with the boroscope.. I even forced it just over a mile home with no rotating drivers intake cam, shattered tensioner and cam gear now residing in the oil pan, and dumping raw fuel out the drivers tail pipe.. New timing kit and 5 valves later like it never happened.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Last edited by justbob; 12-03-2021 at 09:43 AM.
    SOLD 12/31/2021

    Cobra short block / ProCharger F1-A / Cog drive upgrade / Manley valves / Brian Tooley Racing valve springs / 80# inj. / -8 fuel line / -6 return / Aeromotive 340 pumps and regulator / 2012 GT500 TR6060 six speed / twin disc clutch / Driveshaft Shop GT500 upgraded CV joint shaft / BA5000 blow thru MAF/ 4.10's / Ford Racing 31 spline set up and Girdle / Metco D.S. safety loop / Stainless Works headers, cats, and everything else out back / ClassGlass hood / Bob's hood strut mod / Hurst line lock / Metco control arms / Addco front and rear sway bars / Monroe severe duty shocks all around / Race concepts rotors / Badgeless grille / 35% tint / FBM's interior LED kit and ambient lighting kit / Pioneer FB700 deck / kenwood speaker 4 Ch. / Rockford Fosgate 10" sub and amp / Kicker 6 X 8's all around / back up cam / bluetooth / Pioneer Xm / 704 RWHP 603 RWTQ tuned by Mo's Speedshop.

  4. #4
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    I did a lot more looking around last night and I can confirm that the chain did not jump any teeth but the tensioner on the RH was missing all of the plastic which I'm sure resulted in the awful racket and probably took the timing out just enough to make the car impossible to start. The engine would crank but kept coughing and spitting, sounded like it wanted to start but never did except once to which I immediately shut it down due to the noise.

    I believe the resistance that I am feeling is normal and occurs every 1/4 turn of the engine coinciding with the intake valves on one bank opening while the exhaust on the other bank is opening. It is just a lot more resistance than I was expecting, then again when you are moving 8 valves at a time there is going to be resistance.

    At this point I am going to proceed as if the only fault is the broken timing change guides and I'll replace them with new along with the tensioners and see what happens. The job is a lot bigger than I wanted to do but it doesn't seem insurmountable, just a lot of little steps to get to the final result.

    The next issue is to see if I can actually get the oil pan out so I can clean out whatever mess was made by the plastic, although I believe I have almost all of it as the engine wasn't run very long when the tensioners broke I found a huge pile of long plastic pieces along side of the chain next to the crank gear along with a few pieces in the very front of the pan.

    Anybody know if I just an engine hoist and if I disconnect the front engine mounts, can I get the engine up high enough to get the pan off or do I really have to drop the cross member?

    Thanks!

  5. #5
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    You can't get it up high enough to get the pan out.

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  7. #7
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    Drop the cross member eh? :-)
    Just did it. Tough job. Heavy item. It can be done though. The only other way to get the pan out is pull the engine.
    I've done both , that is, pull the engine and remove the cross member to get the oil pan out. 50/50 on which way I would go if I had to get at that oil pan again.
    If you go the cross member route, I can provide lots of info to hopefully make it go easier.
    '03 Silver Birch. Stock rebuilt 4.L 32V DOHC, V7-JT blower w/ADTR racing supercharger kit, Shift kit in transmission, stainless works long pipes and cat backs, Ridetech coil-overs front, shocks in back (ADTR kit). Rebuilt calipers, upgraded front rotors, OEM Mercury wheels, [boost, oil P, WB fuel/air, and fuel pressure] gauges. Build duration was Dec 2019 to Mar 2022. 8 rib serp belt upgrade i/p.

  8. #8
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    Pull the engine, eventually those pieces could make their way into the pick-up tube screen and then your *****ed.
    2003 Black - sold, back again, and sold
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  9. #9
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    If the top end of your motor is stock, you can pull the cowl plastic, remove the motor mount nuts, and lift the motor (I used some short bolts in the alternator mounting flange) enough to drop the oil pan enough to get in there and remove not only the bits of tensioner from the sump, but also to remove the oil pickup tube and clean the inlet screen. you get about 4.5 inches of clearance, the pan would need 5 to actually come out. I have done this, and while not particularly fun, it beats the alternatives with limited resources. You will need a cherry picker though.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by daniel.drives View Post
    If the top end of your motor is stock, you can pull the cowl plastic, remove the motor mount nuts, and lift the motor (I used some short bolts in the alternator mounting flange) enough to drop the oil pan enough to get in there and remove not only the bits of tensioner from the sump, but also to remove the oil pickup tube and clean the inlet screen. you get about 4.5 inches of clearance, the pan would need 5 to actually come out. I have done this, and while not particularly fun, it beats the alternatives with limited resources. You will need a cherry picker though.

    Engine is stock. This is the best piece of information I've heard. I'm assuming the pan will have to stay in the car but I can become a contortionist and somehow reach inside and remove the pickup tube? I'm also guessing I'll be able to slip a new pan gasket in and then re-attach the pickup tube?

    Thanks!

  11. #11
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    If you look at pics of the pan you’ll never get a good look inside the pan without removing the pan completely. Plus removing the pick-up tube will require a new o-ring, good luck finding the correct one, it’s not available from Ford and I wouldn’t use any generic one due to the heat/ chemicals it’s exposed to….. I hate to say it, but pull the engine for piece of mind, it will be way easier to replace the cam cover gaskets, and timing components.
    2003 Black - sold, back again, and sold
    2003 DBP/DC - #153 Whipple 3.4 (permanent garage art)
    2003 DBP/LF - # 36 (Sold)
    2003 DBP/LF - # 205 (Sold)
    2004 Black - Trilogy #43
    2003 Black - shitbox

  12. #12
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    Are you saying that an aftermarket o-ring is not available either?

  13. #13
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    I’m sure something is available, I just don’t know the specs.
    2003 Black - sold, back again, and sold
    2003 DBP/DC - #153 Whipple 3.4 (permanent garage art)
    2003 DBP/LF - # 36 (Sold)
    2003 DBP/LF - # 205 (Sold)
    2004 Black - Trilogy #43
    2003 Black - shitbox

  14. #14
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    You "feel" the difference because you want to "feel" the difference. Since you just spent money on the upgrade you "have" to feel the difference

    I'm looking to eliminate the double pump process I have to follow right now to get the pedal hard

    2004 300A Procharger #0010 D1X
    2003 300A Procharger #0017 D1SC (SOLD. Last I heard, it was in Washington State)

  15. #15
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    I gambled when I bent my valves. I didn’t have the luxury of time nor the care with the Louisville meet just 3-4 days after I bent them. I lifted the engine to max, dropped the pan down and took my sweet ass time with mirrors, flashlights, magnets, mini shop vac attachments, a few cans of brake clean, and plenty of micro fiber towels. I was 100% confident. It wasn’t fun but definitely easy sitting in my comfy rolling seat under the lift.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    SOLD 12/31/2021

    Cobra short block / ProCharger F1-A / Cog drive upgrade / Manley valves / Brian Tooley Racing valve springs / 80# inj. / -8 fuel line / -6 return / Aeromotive 340 pumps and regulator / 2012 GT500 TR6060 six speed / twin disc clutch / Driveshaft Shop GT500 upgraded CV joint shaft / BA5000 blow thru MAF/ 4.10's / Ford Racing 31 spline set up and Girdle / Metco D.S. safety loop / Stainless Works headers, cats, and everything else out back / ClassGlass hood / Bob's hood strut mod / Hurst line lock / Metco control arms / Addco front and rear sway bars / Monroe severe duty shocks all around / Race concepts rotors / Badgeless grille / 35% tint / FBM's interior LED kit and ambient lighting kit / Pioneer FB700 deck / kenwood speaker 4 Ch. / Rockford Fosgate 10" sub and amp / Kicker 6 X 8's all around / back up cam / bluetooth / Pioneer Xm / 704 RWHP 603 RWTQ tuned by Mo's Speedshop.

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