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Thread: Boost problems - I should be getting more

  1. #1
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    Boost problems - I should be getting more

    Hey Guys,
    I connected with the manager of a local air strip. After I signed a waiver, I was given the gate code and access to the runway :-)
    I've seen 2 planes land on this strip in 9 years - so pretty safe.
    A local/rural helicopter will land and take off from time to time for medical transports.
    Pretty sweet.
    Anyway, long story short, with the car running nicely I got in about 5 WOT runs up to about 105 mph, then had to begin slowing as the strip end was approaching.
    BUT, my boost, per the pod gauge, never got over 5 psi.
    For these WOT runs I turned off the overdrive and started in 1st gear. I shifted into second at about 5.5Krpm and into drive at about 5.5Krpm
    On the last run I removed the air filter (very clear sky no wind) and got the very same result.
    In both 1st and 2nd belt squealing could be heard above ~ 3500 rpm.
    After the runs, the smell of burning rubber could be detected; not overwhelming, but definite.

    With the set up I have, I think that over 5 psi boost should be easily achieved,
    The system uses a Vortech Mondo bypass valve which vents ** and there is no rerouting of air back into the supercharger **. I can hear it vent when the throttle closes at high rpm.
    I recently put a Motorcraft OEM tensioner on the car, which did stop belt slip when the AC was operated.

    So, where is the boost???? I'm not sure a slipping belt accounts for this? (Blazen has prev suggested a different belt, and that is definitely on the list)
    Any inputs as to how to get the boost back would be appreciated.
    Thanks
    Last edited by azgolfrat; 09-08-2022 at 06:39 PM. Reason: correct description error **
    '03 Silver Birch. Stock rebuilt 4.L 32V DOHC, V7-JT blower w/ADTR racing supercharger kit, Shift kit in transmission, stainless works long pipes and cat backs, Ridetech coil-overs front, shocks in back (ADTR kit). OEM Mercury wheels, drop down mattress for under car comfort. ECD for start up (rev15a) 5/15/21.

  2. #2
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    The belt slip is the main reason you're not getting more boost. What is the supercharger pulley diameter. That will give you an idea of where the boost should be. You also need to be sure the supercharger pulley is aligned really good with the other pulleys. If its off you will not have good belt to pulley contact and that can cause slippage.

    There's other factors too. Having headers the air flow thru the motor is better so you'll see lower psi than stock manifolds. But that's ok. Your making more power more efficiently with headers.

    You have 3.55 diff gears and probably a factory stall torque converter. If you had numerically higher gears and a high stall your engine rpm would ramp up faster as well as the supercharger, pushing air faster and making slightly higher peak boost.

    Also, with a centrifugal s/c, the higher you rev them the more peak boost it'll make. You should be easily safe to rev to 6k rpm. That extra 500 rpm makes a difference, if your belt isn't slipping.

    Make sure you have a good vacuum line hooked up to your Blow off valve. Technically you should have an independent line ran from the upper intake manifold to the valve. When your motor is under boost, the boost pressure is in that line helping to keep the valve closed.
    Last edited by blazen71; 09-08-2022 at 08:11 PM.
    You "feel" the difference because you want to "feel" the difference. Since you just spent money on the upgrade you "have" to feel the difference

    I'm looking to eliminate the double pump process I have to follow right now to get the pedal hard

    2004 300A Procharger #0010 D1X
    2003 300A Procharger #0017 D1SC (SOLD. Last I heard, it was in Washington State)

  3. #3
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    Everything Blazen said. Plus I would just put it in D and stab it. Redline isnít the actual redline anyways. At least on occasion.. And yes, I know this from early days with only a Trilogy and thinking the trans was as fast as my hand but RPMs prevail.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    SOLD 12/31/2021

    Cobra short block / ProCharger F1-A / Cog drive upgrade / Manley valves / Brian Tooley Racing valve springs / 80# inj. / -8 fuel line / -6 return / Aeromotive 340 pumps and regulator / 2012 GT500 TR6060 six speed / twin disc clutch / Driveshaft Shop GT500 upgraded CV joint shaft / BA5000 blow thru MAF/ 4.10's / Ford Racing 31 spline set up and Girdle / Metco D.S. safety loop / Stainless Works headers, cats, and everything else out back / ClassGlass hood / Bob's hood strut mod / Hurst line lock / Metco control arms / Addco front and rear sway bars / Monroe severe duty shocks all around / Race concepts rotors / Badgeless grille / 35% tint / FBM's interior LED kit and ambient lighting kit / Pioneer FB700 deck / kenwood speaker 4 Ch. / Rockford Fosgate 10" sub and amp / Kicker 6 X 8's all around / back up cam / bluetooth / Pioneer Xm / 704 RWHP 603 RWTQ tuned by Mo's Speedshop.

  4. #4
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    Blazen and JB, thanks. The SC gear is 3.33 6 rib, by Vortech, came with kit.
    Can you say what is the math to go from pulley d to lbs of boost?
    I will find a route for an independent vacuum line to the BOV...right now it is not independent.
    I will get and install the Gates belt we discussed previously.
    I'll have to scratch my head on pulley alignment..I think it is good, but I will find a way to verify.
    Thanks again guys
    '03 Silver Birch. Stock rebuilt 4.L 32V DOHC, V7-JT blower w/ADTR racing supercharger kit, Shift kit in transmission, stainless works long pipes and cat backs, Ridetech coil-overs front, shocks in back (ADTR kit). OEM Mercury wheels, drop down mattress for under car comfort. ECD for start up (rev15a) 5/15/21.

  5. #5
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    That pulley is too small for a 6-rib, even with the RPM belt you will always get slip. If you are keeping the 6 rib setup, I would recommend a 3.6 pulley and an Innovators West 10% OD harmonic balancer. That would get you about 12psi. In my opinion that would be the easiest way to stop the slip. You will probably have to get a different length belt.

    https://innovatorswest.com/product/812-mod-damper/
    You "feel" the difference because you want to "feel" the difference. Since you just spent money on the upgrade you "have" to feel the difference

    I'm looking to eliminate the double pump process I have to follow right now to get the pedal hard

    2004 300A Procharger #0010 D1X
    2003 300A Procharger #0017 D1SC (SOLD. Last I heard, it was in Washington State)

  6. #6
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    For pulley alignment you can use a Dayco or Gates laser alignment tool.

    https://www.gates.com/in/en/power-tr...l?related=true

    https://na.daycoaftermarket.com/en/p...iagnostic-kit/
    You "feel" the difference because you want to "feel" the difference. Since you just spent money on the upgrade you "have" to feel the difference

    I'm looking to eliminate the double pump process I have to follow right now to get the pedal hard

    2004 300A Procharger #0010 D1X
    2003 300A Procharger #0017 D1SC (SOLD. Last I heard, it was in Washington State)

  7. #7
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    Blazen, thanks.
    I dont understand why the harmonic balancer makes a difference for slip - sorry for the dumb question, but this is new to me at this point. Could you explain?
    Thanks
    '03 Silver Birch. Stock rebuilt 4.L 32V DOHC, V7-JT blower w/ADTR racing supercharger kit, Shift kit in transmission, stainless works long pipes and cat backs, Ridetech coil-overs front, shocks in back (ADTR kit). OEM Mercury wheels, drop down mattress for under car comfort. ECD for start up (rev15a) 5/15/21.

  8. #8
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    It indirectly helps with slip. It's a larger diameter balancer so it spins all the pulleys faster by 10%. That way you can use a larger supercharger pulley to get better belt wrap (the larger the pulley the more belt contact you get over the circumference of the pulley). The overdrive balancer will make the 3.6" s/c pulley spin the s/c as if it had a 3.24" pulley.
    You "feel" the difference because you want to "feel" the difference. Since you just spent money on the upgrade you "have" to feel the difference

    I'm looking to eliminate the double pump process I have to follow right now to get the pedal hard

    2004 300A Procharger #0010 D1X
    2003 300A Procharger #0017 D1SC (SOLD. Last I heard, it was in Washington State)

  9. #9
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    To be honest, Chris should not have sold you a s/c kit with a 6-rib 3.33" pulley.
    You "feel" the difference because you want to "feel" the difference. Since you just spent money on the upgrade you "have" to feel the difference

    I'm looking to eliminate the double pump process I have to follow right now to get the pedal hard

    2004 300A Procharger #0010 D1X
    2003 300A Procharger #0017 D1SC (SOLD. Last I heard, it was in Washington State)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by blazen71 View Post
    It indirectly helps with slip. It's a larger diameter balancer so it spins all the pulleys faster by 10%. That way you can use a larger supercharger pulley to get better belt wrap (the larger the pulley the more belt contact you get over the circumference of the pulley). The overdrive balancer will make the 3.6" s/c pulley spin the s/c as if it had a 3.24" pulley.
    Blazen , thanks.
    Well, I do enjoy a challenge
    This SC has an oil drain line back into the oil pan that may prevent any larger a balancer being put in place. With the stock balancer there is about 1/2 inch clearance.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    '03 Silver Birch. Stock rebuilt 4.L 32V DOHC, V7-JT blower w/ADTR racing supercharger kit, Shift kit in transmission, stainless works long pipes and cat backs, Ridetech coil-overs front, shocks in back (ADTR kit). OEM Mercury wheels, drop down mattress for under car comfort. ECD for start up (rev15a) 5/15/21.

  11. #11
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    Remember, if you do this, you will need to do another remote tune with Marty. Updates like this are easy for him. About 3 logs and you should be done.
    You "feel" the difference because you want to "feel" the difference. Since you just spent money on the upgrade you "have" to feel the difference

    I'm looking to eliminate the double pump process I have to follow right now to get the pedal hard

    2004 300A Procharger #0010 D1X
    2003 300A Procharger #0017 D1SC (SOLD. Last I heard, it was in Washington State)

  12. #12
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    With stock gears and converter you will get a really good slingshot effect with minimal wait time. Comes on fairly quick and just builds and builds. My car hammered it HARD and still built and built the longer you dared to ride it out and the rear really didnít like that! It felt like compound boost or how Iíd imagine it feeling.

    With yours Iíd look into 4.10ís and probably not touch the converter or maybe a small upgrade but Iíd stay away from anything too aggressive with the boost you plan to make. Your rear will appreciate not getting punched in the face every time you hammer it. Thatís just good advice for a long lasting trustworthy street car. Not that Iíd do that, but feel I should help steer you right. I donít mind breaking things, easier to sell myself on upgrades.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    SOLD 12/31/2021

    Cobra short block / ProCharger F1-A / Cog drive upgrade / Manley valves / Brian Tooley Racing valve springs / 80# inj. / -8 fuel line / -6 return / Aeromotive 340 pumps and regulator / 2012 GT500 TR6060 six speed / twin disc clutch / Driveshaft Shop GT500 upgraded CV joint shaft / BA5000 blow thru MAF/ 4.10's / Ford Racing 31 spline set up and Girdle / Metco D.S. safety loop / Stainless Works headers, cats, and everything else out back / ClassGlass hood / Bob's hood strut mod / Hurst line lock / Metco control arms / Addco front and rear sway bars / Monroe severe duty shocks all around / Race concepts rotors / Badgeless grille / 35% tint / FBM's interior LED kit and ambient lighting kit / Pioneer FB700 deck / kenwood speaker 4 Ch. / Rockford Fosgate 10" sub and amp / Kicker 6 X 8's all around / back up cam / bluetooth / Pioneer Xm / 704 RWHP 603 RWTQ tuned by Mo's Speedshop.

  13. #13
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    Guys, thanks for all the inputs.
    I did make one adjust that seems to have made a change in the right direction. I did a lot of reading on the Vortech Mondo blow off valve I have installed (part # 8D003-010). Then I took it out and popped it opened it to see if all looked ok. It did. I called Vortech and made sure I was re-assembling ok. I was. The blow off works in two ways... if the boost gets too large, then the valve that sees the just-post-blower air flow opens and releases boost to the outside air...down near the passenger side wheel. On the flip side, when the intake manifold is seeing vacuum, the valve opens and release boost pressure that the engine doesn't want/need at the time.
    There is a spring inside the blow off valve that appears to control both these actions..
    The spring tension can be adjusted via a bolt that is top center on the blow off valve.
    I turned the bolt 4 turns, tightened and down the lock nut. This compressed the spring inside the blow off valve.
    I believe the net effect of this is :
    1) More manifold vacuum is required to open the blow off valve (however the pressure blow off seemed to occur the moment the foot came off the pedal both before and after spring adjust).
    2) The boost achieved (back at the airplane strip!) was a bit over 6, which is a little over a 20% increase from the runs before the adjust.

    So, do you think I am on the right track here? Tempted to turn the adjust bolt 4 more times and see what happens.
    Thoughts?
    '03 Silver Birch. Stock rebuilt 4.L 32V DOHC, V7-JT blower w/ADTR racing supercharger kit, Shift kit in transmission, stainless works long pipes and cat backs, Ridetech coil-overs front, shocks in back (ADTR kit). OEM Mercury wheels, drop down mattress for under car comfort. ECD for start up (rev15a) 5/15/21.

  14. #14
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    I do not know the etiquette of adjusting a BOV, never had to. Either way, the fine adjustment should never effect the peak boost, just at what vacuum it starts to bleed off. In a standard system with a belt driven supercharger the valve is open or closed. At this point I think you may want to check for a boost leak. Google "boost leak kit" and get or make one. Where is your MAF located? Is it before or after the supercharger? If it's before you prob don't have a leak as you would get a CEL. If it's after the S/C and closer to the throttle body you could have a leak and you will NOT get a CEL as long as the leak is before the MAF. You could also check for a leak with a smoke machine. I still think your belt is slipping with that small 3.33 S/C pulley.
    You "feel" the difference because you want to "feel" the difference. Since you just spent money on the upgrade you "have" to feel the difference

    I'm looking to eliminate the double pump process I have to follow right now to get the pedal hard

    2004 300A Procharger #0010 D1X
    2003 300A Procharger #0017 D1SC (SOLD. Last I heard, it was in Washington State)

  15. #15
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    Thank you for explaining how to adjust a BOV and what the valve actually does, but I have to ask, why was this not addressed in the installation instructions from ATDR.net?

    Did he make provisions for proper vacuum within his kit too?

    How bout the PCV system? Does it see boost?

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