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Thread: 300 HP on a Budget.

  1. #1
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    300 HP on a Budget.

    I need some suggestions on whether it is possible to achieve this goal. At least 300 hp--300 ft/lbs of torque at the rear wheels. Blower is not possible right now, I don't like nitrous.

    I want to achieve this goal by increasing the power output of the engine, not by reducing the parasitic drag on the engine. I am also not interested in the various power line components that reduce ET's.

    This is where I am at today: 265 hp/289 torque. Stock car with generic flash. I am on a very limited budget so I have to squeeze maximum power out of every dollar spent.

    Is this possible ? or maybe I'm just dreaming. All helpful suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
    Smokie
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokie
    I want to achieve this goal by increasing the power output of the engine, not by reducing the parasitic drag on the engine.
    Smokie: Why don't you want to gain performance by reducing parasitic drag? Power is power, whether you increase the total output, or increase the USABLE output by reducing drag, it's all good...most other things that will add a bunch of power are either relatively expensive to buy, or time-consuming to install...

    Underdrive pulleys are a relatively economical way to free up a few horses...I hear good things about Paul's intake spacer as well...I think that's The Blackbird's next mod...
    I am also not interested in the various power line components that reduce ET's.
    I don't quite know what you mean here...do you mean things like the PI torque converter?
    The Blackbird
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  3. #3
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    RF, I want to increase the power the engines makes, the parasitic power adders have draw backs that I prefer to avoid, power line components ie: converter, gears do not add power and are not cheap. I am 33 hp and 11 ft/lbs away from the minimum where I would like to be.

    I would prefer to increase power output without giving up something in return, maybe I don't make a lot sense but it makes sense to me.
    Last edited by Smokie; 08-15-2004 at 03:58 AM.
    Smokie
    12.79 @ 107 mph.
    60' 1.851 Street tires & Stock wheels.
    TIMESLIPS
    Performance Mods: Base Trilogy Kit, Exhaust, PHP Airbox.
    Visit my Garage
    Florida "The Supercharged State"


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokie
    Blower is not possible right now, I don't like nitrous.
    Buy a blower

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokie
    All helpful suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
    .................
    Smokie
    12.79 @ 107 mph.
    60' 1.851 Street tires & Stock wheels.
    TIMESLIPS
    Performance Mods: Base Trilogy Kit, Exhaust, PHP Airbox.
    Visit my Garage
    Florida "The Supercharged State"


  6. #6
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    Smokie, horsepower ain't cheap. That said, here's the cheapest way I can come up with. You have the re-flash already, if you haven't done the plugs and t-stat, do them. This is probably worth 2 -8 hp. Next, get a K&N or an Air Hog or some other equivalent better breathing air filter. They say this is worth 2 - 15 hp, depending upon application. I was a doubter myself, but I finally put the K&N on last weekend, and I can notice a difference. Another relatively cheap improvement would be a less restrictive exhaust muffler. If you're handy, you could probably also "re-pipe" the whole system from the cats on back. Our pipes are quite small, and hp could be gained there. Lastly, you should get over your "parasitic" phobia (no ill intended). There's another 3 to 10 rwhp just waiting in those pullies on your car. I have the underdrives, and honestly the only difference I notice is at a stop at night with the lights on I get a slightly lower reading on the alt. gague. It comes right back to normal as soon as the brake is off (while in gear). I haven't seen a difference in the a/c, steering or anything else. These are the least expensive things I could come up with.
    300A
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    When in doubt, GAS IT! This will either fix the problem, or end the suspense.

  7. #7
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    Smokie, you know more about cars and have been on this site longer than me, but the only thing that fits the part of increasing the power output of the engine is a S/C. But then its not in the price range your looking at. If your looking at putting you over the 300 mark, an exhust would be the thing to do it. Your looking at on the high end with install $2,000 total, self install about $1,400. But then again this isnt a power adder.

  8. #8
    Captain Steve Guest
    You could run exclusively on 100octane race/street fuel and have somebody tweak the tune on your engine.. you already have the tuner, so you'd just have to be buying slightly more expensive gas

  9. #9
    Javier...check your PMs.

  10. #10
    bigslim Guest
    Check with Barry (Cruztaker). He is running over 300hp from his car. I have witness his runs at the track and it runs damn good. Constant mid 13's without a blower.

  11. #11
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    Javier, try the colder plugs, stat, UD pulleys, then save up for headers, you saw my pull at Indy, with those mods(including flow masters) I am at 294 HP 302 tq. All I need to put me "over the top" is an electric water pump and I am not sure I am going to go that route! :UP:

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokie
    I need some suggestions on whether it is possible to achieve this goal. At least 300 hp--300 ft/lbs of torque at the rear wheels. Blower is not possible right now, I don't like nitrous. I want to achieve this goal by increasing the power output of the engine, not by reducing the parasitic drag on the engine. I am also not interested in the various power line components that reduce ET's.
    Sticking to the parameters you set here, Javier, I do not believe it's possible without serious (and major) changes to the engine. Your heading says "on a budget," and with consideration for that, a supercharger is less expensive, and produces more "bang for the buck" than rebuilding the engine to produce more "natural" power.

    You also mention "parasitic drag" in that sentence and I agree, any supercharger will use some natural power to drive itself. However, as long as the supercharger produces enough power of it's own, it's worth it, and perhaps the only way to go, bang for the buck-wise.

    Imagine yourself wanting to row a small boat across a lake. With only you in the boat, and armed with only two oars of standard size. Let's call this "one boat power," and you will complete your journey in one hour. The boat is light, and the water still. However, you wish to make the journey in under half an hour. What are your options? Larger oars? Perhaps so large you cannot manage them, or, keep them pulling through the water as much as you can smaller, more manageable oars?

    But, if you add some "parasitic drag," with a small outboard motor producing 5 HP, you may reach your goal. The motor adds 50 pounds to your load, and it's drive line drags in the water too, and this is not good if you are still rowing. But, once you start the motor and let it's 5 HP add to your 1 "boat power," you will complete your journey across the lake in half an hour, and without any pyhsical exertion on your behalf. Ummm...Like Zack said, get a blower.

    Cruztaker's (and others) accomplishments are remarkable, but do not really fit within the scenario Javier puts forth. Those "ET lowering" and "drag removing" add-ons, like UD pulleys, are likewise responsible for the production of HP and TQ on a dyno. Everything works together to get the natural power of the 4.6 DOHC to the wheels, and they cannot be discounted here.

    Again, staying within the parameters of the question, the goal will not be achieved without rebuilding the engine, and to such a degree to move 300 HP/300TQ through the drive line without any other mods assisting, you would have to shoot for a natural 400HP and 400TQ, and that's without any respect for bang for the bucks. It's just not cost effective, and maybe not possible, on a 281 CID DOHC engine....IMHO.

    Just my .02c

  13. #13
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    Thank you for the good suggestions, I know that the parameters that I have set may seem silly or bizarre to many out there, but I have very carefully over 2 years have studied the effects of U/D pullies based on the comments made by those that have them: there are drawbacks I don't want, the electric water pump works as advertise but since I make a living in a field where I work with electric motors I know that a motor is like a light bulb; one second there is light, the next second no light.

    Gears give you better launch, they take away top end and mpg. High stall converter improves launch but requires fine tuning to avoid unwanted driving characteristics during normal everyday driving.

    I obviously don't have the budget to do what I want the way it should be done (blower) Paul you are correct about the K&N filter it does help, I use the paper for everyday driving and drop in a K&N at the track (I think it helps )

    I am not trying to build the fastest car or a race car for that matter. I want it to be a fine automobile with enough power to surprise the overconfident.

    I am 33 horses and 11 ft/lbs from what I believe to be a modest goal. Notice my goal is not ET based. I think it is possible to find the power somewhere in the intake/exhaust/dyno-tune area. I may be mistaken or the power I seek not within my budget.... but I guess I will find out.
    Smokie
    12.79 @ 107 mph.
    60' 1.851 Street tires & Stock wheels.
    TIMESLIPS
    Performance Mods: Base Trilogy Kit, Exhaust, PHP Airbox.
    Visit my Garage
    Florida "The Supercharged State"


  14. #14
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    What do you want to spend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokie
    Thank you for the good suggestions, I know that the parameters that I have set may seem silly or bizarre to many out there, but I have very carefully over 2 years have studied the effects of U/D pullies based on the comments made by those that have them: there are drawbacks I don't want, the electric water pump works as advertise but since I make a living in a field where I work with electric motors I know that a motor is like a light bulb; one second there is light, the next second no light.

    Gears give you better launch, they take away top end and mpg. High stall converter improves launch but requires fine tuning to avoid unwanted driving characteristics during normal everyday driving.

    I obviously don't have the budget to do what I want the way it should be done (blower) Paul you are correct about the K&N filter it does help, I use the paper for everyday driving and drop in a K&N at the track (I think it helps )

    I am not trying to build the fastest car or a race car for that matter. I want it to be a fine automobile with enough power to surprise the overconfident.

    I am 33 horses and 11 ft/lbs from what I believe to be a modest goal. Notice my goal is not ET based. I think it is possible to find the power somewhere in the intake/exhaust/dyno-tune area. I may be mistaken or the power I seek not within my budget.... but I guess I will find out.
    You never shared what you alotted for your mods $$ wise. If 2-3k is in your idea range ,sounds like it should be no problem.Sounds like you have a plan

  15. #15
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    Just check my sig,Smokie.
    294hp and 299ft/lbs on the dyno in Indy.With the spacer you won and my mods you'll have 300 to the wheels.
    Below $3000,closer to $2000 without the converter.
    Take note I'm running stock gears so highway mileage runs 23-25 @70-75mph.


    OK reread your post,Your tune numbers are very close to where I was,so your only option is add the KOOKS system.Retune the CPU and see what you got,Believe it or not the only down side I had with the underdrives was fixed with the tune,idle raised to about 900,there done.
    You could also go with DR's exhaust system but I don't know the numbers.
    With the Kooks no matter what anybody says you do lose below 3000rpm torque but the magic 300 is there on top.DR's system MAY leave you 5 or so HP short but my GUESS is you will not lose the lowend.
    But 300/300 is possible.
    A year and a half ago this would be a reach,put the parts and tune is out there today.
    Last edited by cyclone03; 08-15-2004 at 09:23 AM.

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