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Thread: Some More Marauder Dyno Stuff...

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lidio
    ... but they didnít exactly fix what was wrong with these little 281 cubic inch motors. Low end torque or lack there of...
    Lidio I have enjoyed your thread and the way you document everything you do. I feel compelled to come in defense of that little 281. How Ford chose to release the MM. does an injustice to that little 281, I changed the exhaust on mine (SVO shorties) the airbox (PHP) and U/D's....all else is what Ford put in it. I have 265 ft/lbs of torque at 2000 rpm's, arrive at 300 tq at 3850 and remain above 300 to 5200 rpm's.

    If I stab the pedal from a dead stop the car will spin the tires without moving for about 1 to 2 seconds and gradually hook-up and start to bolt....I have; in my younger days owned or driven big block V-8's and with the exception of the 440 six-pack none of them bolted from a dead start any better than my little 281.
    Last edited by Smokie; 12-22-2004 at 04:10 PM.
    Smokie
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lidio
    Here it isÖ

    This is the one that a lot of people are waiting to see and some probably donít.
    As slanted as this may appear to be to some because of the nature of this comparison. Iím posting it any way because I want to show the difference in low-end-torque between a roots blower and centrifugal type on a 4.6L, 4-Valve MM set up. This is the real deal between roots type blowers and Centrifugals. The main reason for this is to exemplify the difference in low end torque and off idle or as close to off idle TQ each one makes. In no way is the tune responsible for the obvious difference between the two.

    First I want to say that Iíve tuned a lot of Vortech equipped cars in the last 12+ years and have really excelled in it the last couple of years because of our dyno and software we now use. Tuning a centrifugal car for us is no big deal, weíve done hundreds with proper and expected results. The difference in low end shown here is not the tune in any way. Itís the boost, or lack there of, down low. I know Iím repeating my self here.

    The tune on the MM with the Vortech shown here was done totally by me because the owner of the car wasnít happy with the facility that installed and tuned the combination initially here in MI. Sadly as can be seen in the dyno graphs, the blower belt squealed and slipped causing a boost drop at the high end of the pull. This made the Vortech equipped car obviously not make the over all high RPM power that it was capable of. But this post and these graphs are to show the difference in low end torque between the two.

    Just a side noteÖ The blower belt on a Trilogy set up is its own stand alone 8-rib belt just for the blower. The Vortech set-upís use one 6-rib to support all the accessories and the blower too.

    Also the Cyntrifugal equipped car had long tube headers and only the stock front two cats removed, not all four. Iím not sure why this was done. I feel leaving the rest of the system stock especially the mufflers, negates the use of the headers. I also feel that the centrifugal equipped car would have made a pretty impressive peak number had the boost not fell off. As you can see in the graph, the boost was continuing to rise pretty good on the Vortech car and probably would have hit 9.5 to 10psi and a least 390-400+ RWHP.

    Not to many people I knowÖ in-fact no one I know at this time (except for JW @ SCT) is doing what I do with the trans shifts and converter here (when dynoing) . Where I set it up to ďnotĒ down shift out of third gear once its over 25mph and lock the converter the whole time. As Iíve said before, this shows a very real Torque and HP pull just like a stick shift car would on a chassis dyno. This showing of the amount of low end these have is whatís felt and used the most on heavy street cars from street light to street light and day to day!

    Just for some added info and data, I also posted a dyno graph of a Stick-shift í03 Mach-1 we did a Vortech on recentlyÖ which ran very good with long tubes and a full 2.5Ē exhaust with two hi-flo cats too.
    The í03-í04 Mach-1ís have the same motor as the MMís except the stick-shift Mach-1ís got a steel crank. The MMís and auto trans Machís got a cast crank.
    The Mach made the power and torque over all like it should from 2000 RPMís all the way up. The Mach makes more then the MM with a Vortech over all because of less power train losses and itís a stick shift.

    This is all good and honest data for those interested in a blower for their cars. Itís a pretty fair example of the low end grunt differences.

    As can be seen in the Trilogyís low end torqueÖ this is the reason a Trilogy MM will run very good with nothing done to it at all other then the Trilogy blower kit. They perform very well with out a loose, after market torque-converter and do very well with the stock 3.55s in axle too. Although they wake up more with additional boost and other upgrades as well.



    Thanks
    I was just reviewing the boost curve that Lidio posted a few weeks ago and I have a question concerning the Centrifugal Superchargers......
    The Centrifugal S/C boost curve rises with RPM and peaks at redline.
    i.e. A 9 psi Centrifugal S/C does not make 9 psi boost until the very top of the rpm range.
    Why can't you install a 14 psi Centrifugal S/C pulley and a bypass valve set at 9 psi?? That way you will get 9 psi boost much sooner in the rpm range and hold 9 psi until redline??
    That's what all Turbocharger systems do....build boost to a preset limit, then the bypass/blow-off valve holds that level of boost until redline.
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  3. #33
    MikesMerc Guest
    There are a number of issues...

    First, most by pass/blow off valve designs are meant for reducing huge back pressure (and the associated high reverse flow pressure on the impeller) that occurs when the throttle is closed....not regualting boost. Large levels of unreleived back pressure cause tremendous heat and can damage the blower at higher cfm levels when the throttle slams shut. Accordingly, most by pass and blow off valves are controlled by a vacuum line off the intake rather than by actually regulating boost pressure. When the throttle is closed enough to produce an intake vacuum, the vacuum line holds the by pass open and releives boost pressure.

    Second, assuming you can find a pressure regulated valve, you'd have to make sure it is a by pass as the MM runs with a MAF. Once air is "sampled" by the meter it cannot be discharged into the atmoshpere. The draw back here is that the "by pass" is not as effective as a blow off valve as a by pass only recirculates the boost pressure (vs blowing it off into the atmosphere).


    Third, you'd be grossly overspinning the blower at higher rpm ranges. Because a centrifugal blower makes power exponentially with higher rpms, the blower would spin right past its safe impeller rpm range before you ran it up much at all if you began with 9psi of effective boost at lower rpms. All the "rush" of boost that comes on that way is fun, there is a limit as how to apply it.

    Last, you'd be making serious heat with a blower along with overspinning it if lower rpms produced boost. Again, the exponential boost relation to impeller rpm is the killer.
    Last edited by MikesMerc; 01-07-2005 at 10:53 PM.

  4. #34
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    I need a LIDIO TUNE. How do I go about purchasing one etc? I have a SCT SCANNER WITH A D.R. tune installed.
    Thanks!

    T.

  5. #35
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    this thread is over 9 years old!!!!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJCOX View Post
    I need a LIDIO TUNE. How do I go about purchasing one etc? I have a SCT SCANNER WITH A D.R. tune installed.
    Thanks!

    T.
    Call Dennis. He would be happy to TAKE your money.

  7. #37
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    If you send him your tuner he'll unlock it

    What he'll do with it after that is anyone's guess
    Those were the days.........

    DANG THEY'RE CUTE!!!!!!
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJCOX View Post
    I need a LIDIO TUNE. How do I go about purchasing one etc? I have a SCT SCANNER WITH A D.R. tune installed.
    Thanks!

    T.
    Lidio Iacobelli
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by lji372 View Post
    If you send him your tuner he'll unlock it

    What he'll do with it after that is anyone's guess
    ***snicker***

  10. #40
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    You guys are just plain MEAN!!

    Subscribing to see where this might go.....(grin)!!
    No Marauder

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marauderjack View Post
    You guys are just plain MEAN!!

    Subscribing to see where this might go.....(grin)!!
    Don't confuse "mean" with "experience."

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyo View Post
    Don't confuse "mean" with "experience."
    Kinder words were never spoken

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jflave View Post
    Kinder words were never spoken
    You $hould $ee what ha$ happened $ince your debacle!!

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