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Thread: Driveshaft??

  1. #1

    Driveshaft??

    Hey guys,

    I finally took the plunge and ordered 4.10's. While I'm looking forward to experiencing the performance difference from the gear swap, the more I read regarding possible driveshaft issues has me concerned that perhaps I should have left well enough alone. Initially, from what I had read on this forum, I gathered that the vibration issue was something that may or may not arise with a gear change. In other words, changing the driveshaft may not be required. However, the more I read regarding the critical speed of the driveshaft, which is lowered by the 4.10 gear change, I am beginning to wonder if a driveshaft upgrade is requisite. Some have stated that they do not feel any vibration issues, while others have stated that even in the absence of discernable vibration, that issues could and likely are occurring. Is there a definitive answer on this issue? I want to do the gear change, but don't want to compromise my drivetrain in the process.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marauder131 View Post
    ...the vibration issue was something that may or may not arise with a gear change. In other words, changing the driveshaft may not be required. ...
    Not trying to be a smarta$$, but you answered your own question.

    There have also been a couple of members who took their stock driveshaft to a driveline specialist for balancing.
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  3. #3
    I strongly suggest you do something to augment the 4.10s. Either a new DS or balance the one you have. (I would personally just replace it with a higher performance shaft) I have 4.10s and have not done either but did have the output shaft seal fail causing a severe leak (spewage) all over the bottow/rear of the car at 130MPH (on a private track, of course).

    Upon further inspection it appears to weaken, over time, during higher speed driving. Anything above 90 and I can hear it vibrate. I would guess this vibration is present at lower speeds but cannot be heard or felt.

    Since this output shaft seal failure I have not gone above 90MPH with the car. I am waiting to supercharge prior to upgrading the DS.

    Edit- somewhere our here there was discussion of a mod to help lube this shaft to help avoid the heat build up, I assume. I think a better DS would solve all the issues, but there may be a better way...
    Last edited by DeadVic; 10-25-2006 at 07:16 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by FordNut View Post
    Not trying to be a smarta$$, but you answered your own question.

    There have also been a couple of members who took their stock driveshaft to a driveline specialist for balancing.
    What I was getting at was, in light of the reduction in "critical" speed, even in the absence of discarnable vibration, whether it was just a given that damage was going to be done, or not. From some of the responses on various threads, there seems to be contrasting opinions. Some owners having not experienced vibration, seem to feel confident that the stock shaft is up to the task, while others seem to convey a different viewpoint.

    In regards to balancing, some have expressed that it isn't a balance issue at all. I'm left pondering what the definitive answer is, if there is one.

    Regards
    Last edited by Marauder131; 10-25-2006 at 07:29 PM. Reason: spelling

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadVic View Post
    I strongly suggest you do something to augment the 4.10s. Either a new DS or balance the one you have. (I would personally just replace it with a higher performance shaft) I have 4.10s and have not done either but did have the output shaft seal fail causing a severe leak (spewage) all over the bottow/rear of the car at 130MPH (on a private track, of course).

    Upon further inspection it appears to weaken, over time, during higher speed driving. Anything above 90 and I can hear it vibrate. I would guess this vibration is present at lower speeds but cannot be heard or felt.

    Since this output shaft seal failure I have not gone above 90MPH with the car. I am waiting to supercharge prior to upgrading the DS.

    Edit- somewhere our here there was discussion of a mod to help lube this shaft to help avoid the heat build up, I assume. I think a better DS would solve all the issues, but there may be a better way...
    With the stock gears I have taken my car up to 125 MPH a few times and never had a hint of vibration. Now, that may not be the case with 4.10's mind you. However, if vibration is a requisite indicator of a problem, and subsequent to the swap such vibration is absent, I guess I won't worry. I'll have to wait and see what happens.

    Thanks

  6. #6
    i have never had a vibration either...at least not one I could feel. I could hear a humming sound. It's harmonic in nature. You have to listen for it. it's not pronounced. And, I ran mine up to 130 before the swap and didn't have any issues either. At the very least, get a DS loop so if something does fail you don't crash and get hurt/die.

    To put it in farm boy terms, it's like standing next to a PTO on a Farmall H with the throttle wide open when it's hooked to an empty elevator. You can hear it whipping but you can't feel it. And, you sure as hell don't want to get close to it or you're gonna lose a limb.

  7. #7
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    I upgraded my DS w/out the 410. Overkill, I know. I also put a DS loop in. Easy mod to do. Big piece of mind. W/410's this is a no brainer. Good luck.
    No Matter Where You Go, There You Are.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by FordNut View Post
    Not trying to be a smarta$$, but you answered your own question.....
    This is true. I bet you did read all threads in regard to this popular and neccesary question. You truly did answer your own question. No one here has ever posted anything saying it was an outright failing part . However evidence suggesting that it can happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marauder131 View Post
    ..... if vibration is a requisite indicator of a problem, and subsequent to the swap such vibration is absent, I guess I won't worry.
    That and them end all...tail shaft leakage or God forbid....damaged rear end.

    I drove spiritedly after 4:10's for quite awhile before I took the cheap way out. I swapped my shaft with a former Ford shaft once slated for another vehicle. This part is no longer manufactured, so I will not elaborate.

    It's a personal decision thing now. I certainly won't go out on a limb and suggest you buy a high performance shaft. I will say that the part is built to deliver what ever you wish to throw at it, so it certainly isn't a waste of money.

    Out of my mod budget however.
    Last edited by CRUZTAKER; 10-25-2006 at 07:47 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Go ahead and try it without the D/S whatcha got to loose. I ended up with a cracked transmission output shaft. I replaced it with a used one $150 installed. At that point I just kept it below 100mph until I could get a Dennis Reinhart shaft installed...Good luck you wont be sorry evan if you end up needing one...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadVic View Post

    Upon further inspection it appears to weaken, over time, during higher speed driving. Anything above 90 and I can hear it vibrate. I would guess this vibration is present at lower speeds but cannot be heard or felt.

    This was my experiance.

    I went with an aftermarket DS. It was expensive, but the piece of mind is there. For $150, it may be worth a try to get the OEM rebalanced.

    Do your homework and deside.

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  11. #11
    I suppose as long as one keeps below triple digits with 4.10's, there really shouldn't be need for concern as far as the driveshaft goes.

  12. #12
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    Stay below 85-90 if you dont want to feel the vibration. If I recall correctly, I read somewhere that the DS "whip" comes on sooner, you just can not feel it.

    11.98 @ 115 mph
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  13. #13
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    I have the stock driveshaft with 4.10 gears and I had the driveshaft rebalanced. I have had some odd vibrations with the car that I thought was related to rear end/ driveline but it ended up being something else, it is a long story.

    Anyway, the most I ever did was 105 at the track and a few of 90-100 mph runs on the highway. I ended up having to have the tail end of the driveshaft replaced. The rebalance helps but again, it won't be as high quality as a metal matrix unit. BTW, if you can go to a salvage yard, find a 1999 Crown Victoria P71. For that model year only Ford had installed the MMX, same unit our Marauders have, in the P71.

    You can get one off www.car-parts.com or you can always buy new from Rienhart your choice. Honestly, as long as you arent constantly driving over 100, it shouldn't be a problem. My rebalance including paying for a new rear joint cost just $125.67. You can do short sprints of 105-110 without too much a problem as long as you don't hold it for more than oh half a minute or so. So unless you really plan on heavy road coursing, you probably won't need it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevenJ View Post
    ... the most I ever did was 105 at the track and a few of 90-100 mph runs on the highway.
    I have run 105 all the way from Chicago to Cleveland....
    Shame on you.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenJ View Post
    .... if you can go to a salvage yard, find a 1999 Crown Victoria P71. For that model year only Ford had installed the MMX, same unit our Marauders have, in the P71.
    Cat's out of the bag.
    I bought a new MMX POLICE shaft.
    Afterall, with my gears I c an only run 145 or so before I run out of balls and roadway....and there isn't enough roadway to do that for more than 20 seconds. Without going to long term jail sentence.
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  15. #15
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    correction......

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenJ View Post
    I have the stock driveshaft with 4.10 gears and I had the driveshaft rebalanced. I have had some odd vibrations with the car that I thought was related to rear end/ driveline but it ended up being something else, it is a long story.

    Anyway, the most I ever did was 105 at the track and a few of 90-100 mph runs on the highway. I ended up having to have the tail end of the driveshaft replaced. The rebalance helps but again, it won't be as high quality as a metal matrix unit. BTW, if you can go to a salvage yard, find a 1999 Crown Victoria P71. For that model year only Ford had installed the MMX, same unit our Marauders have, in the P71.

    You can get one off www.car-parts.com or you can always buy new from Rienhart your choice. Honestly, as long as you arent constantly driving over 100, it shouldn't be a problem. My rebalance including paying for a new rear joint cost just $125.67. You can do short sprints of 105-110 without too much a problem as long as you don't hold it for more than oh half a minute or so. So unless you really plan on heavy road coursing, you probably won't need it.
    Actually, You need to find a 2000 CVPI to get the MMX d/shaft.
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