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Thread: 4R70W Transmissions, My Experience & Thoughts with them...

  1. #1
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    4R70W Transmissions, My Experience & Thoughts with them...

    Thereís been quite a bit of talk lately (some of it misleading) around the current Over-Drive automatic known as the 4R70W that comes in the í03 Marauder and I thought I would share some of my experience and insight.

    I want to mention that Iíve been into putting Fordís modern rear-drive automatics with overdrive in very powerful Street/Strip cars since the early 90ís. I started doing it when it wasnít cool to have an AOD in a fast street Mustang. Everyone would throw away AODís while I was recommending keeping them and doing the right things to them to make them live behind some serious small block Fordís in street cars. Every thing Iím about to say is pure experienceÖ. And LOTíS of it with AODís, AOD-Eís and the current 4R70W.

    Although we do not mail order our AODís and our name is not known nationally for doing one of the best AODís in the country, we consider our units and experience with them to be one of the best. We are not big on ďmail orderingĒ a lot of our services because we found that mail order compromised our reputation due to poor self-installs and end userís lack of competence on many occasions (not every one so please donít be offended). We do mail order many components, but our SuperDuty AOD isnít one of them. We require the install be done by us for any serious AOD work.

    Some of the problems that a few have complained about have had the misfortune of a bad build of some kind from the factory, some kind of running change, something completely unexplained or could have been brought on themselves with mods or driving style.

    All I know is that the 4R70W is one of the toughest automatics Ford has ever put into rear drive cars for small block applications. When this trans is treated to only minor upgrades, I believe (and have proven with my yellow coupe) it will hold up to well over 700+HP! Iíve put dozens of AOD-Eís and 4R70Wís behind 500+ RWHP cars for several years now.

    The only problem with the specific 4R70W in the MM outside of bad luck at manufacturing is that it doesnít shift hard enough at WOT for the 1-2 shift when a blower or something of that nature has been added. Iím talking like 125+HP more at the flywheel. I feel that the MM trans can shift very firm and positively behind a Marauder engine with just basic bolt-ons. Iíve found that through basic chip reprogramming the MM trans will hit very hard for the 1-2 shift and very hard for the 2-3 shift as well. Once this has been achieved thereís nothing more you need to do. Itís the sliding into gear during upshifts that causes problems and even that isnt the end of the world (Iíll get to that too). I basically tell all my customers with AOD-Eís and 4R70Wís that if you are abusive only in the first three gears and keep it out of overdrive when really horsing around, the AOD-Eís are pretty much indestructible. The overdrive can be weak because it uses a small band and not a clutch pack to apply OD. But outside of that they can handle more than most would have ever believed when they first started to come out a few years ago.

    The Trilogy #1 car has had absolutely no trans problems at all with itís original 4R70W. Immediately after installing the blower on the car I noticed that through CPU programming I could get the 3rd gear upshift to hit so hard that I backed it off some. But the 2nd gear upshift on the other hand was not positive and as firm as I would like even with the TV pressure adjustment maxed out with the chip tuning. Without mechanical intervention into the valve body, there just wasnít any way to get a very firm shift. First, I removed the 2nd gear accumulator which dampens the 1-2 shift. This proved to not be enough - it didnít hit from 1st to 2nd as hard as I thought it should but we left it that way on the #1 car for over 26,000 miles now. 26,000 very, very hard miles, abused and raced - even with a small amount of slip from 1st to 2nd (which I still donít like) it hasnít burnt anything up.

    In the summer of 2000 just to prove to everyone how much a stock 4R70W and a stock, weak - pistoned í96 32V Cobra motor could take, myself and a partner campaigned a í91 Mustang LX. He owned the car and I owned the power train. It had a 23psi of boost, Vorteched í96 32V Cobra motor that put the car into the mid 9ís in the ľ mile at over 143mph!

    The trans was a ďusedĒ unit (not even rebuilt) from a Ď98GT Mustang 4R70W that we were told had 20,000 miles on it. We got it for $300.00. All we did was put in a Performance-Automatic valve body that still let it shift automatically, but had a trans-brake feature and the ability to make the up-shifts much firmer. Thatís all we did to it! No other mods to the core of the trans at all. The trans was shifted automatically with a stand-alone computer from a company called Baumann. This ďusedĒ trans went that whole summer of 2000 with over 110 mid 9 second passes on it without ever having one problem! The car weighed about 3200lbs with a driver. In fact when we took it out to have it gone through and looked at, the trans guy said ďWhat am I doing with it, it looks OK inside?Ē This is where I really learned how much you could throw at a 4R70W.

    We recently tried the mod posted here called the ďJ-modĒ on a MM trans and we only modified what dealt with the 1-2 shift as I feel the 2-3 shift can be made overly firm at WOT with the chip programming. The J-mod does not raise mainline pressure. It only makes the accumulator work less or not at all. And the J-mod makes a few feed holes less restrictive. This J-mod was done to a MM trans that also got a 2nd gear clutch pack that was put together with better/high performance clutches, but no more then the original quantity of clutchís was used - which is 4 clutches. Early, non V-8 and some V-8 AOD-Eís and 4R70Wís only had 3 clutches for 2nd gear. Upgrading those to four is second nature now.

    When we got it running (the J-Moded car) the 1-2 shift was noticeably firmer than without the J-mod or the better clutches, but it is still not enough in my opinion. Although it is much, much better and can be let go, which we did. For a seriously banging 1-2 shift behind some serious power, I feel the MMís needs a tried-and-true shift kit that alters main-line pressure as well as all the other little tricks in the valve-body.

    What most of this long post is trying to say is that the internals of the MM trans do not need to be upgraded at all if the trans is properly ďshift-kittedĒ while it still has low, unabused miles on it (baring any unforeseen factory flaws etc) and no drive-line vibrations. We have yet to install a full after-market shift kit in a MM to this day, because of how good they shift NA with just programming. And the way they shift from 1-2 even with a mild blower application seems to be OK as well but could use addressing.

    I have found over the years that one of the biggest problems with the 4R70Wís and AOD-Eís is that they downshift very poorly and flare when going from 4th (OD) back to another gear like 3rd or 2nd from a role at high loads or near WOT when requesting the 4 to 3 or 4 to 2nd down shift. This 4th downshifting flare (with out making this post even longer) is not fixable. Iíve tried many things and tricks over the last few years and it wonít go away. When an AOD-E has to go from 4th back to any other gear, the OD band has to come off and the forward clutch has to come back on. This action has a delay that we canít seem to fix no matter what we tried. It only becomes a problem and very noticeable when youíve added significant power and torque to one of these transmissions. Basically what happens is for an instance when the trans goes back/downshifts from 4th under heavy load to 2nd or 3rd it flares into neutral then grabs 3rd or 2nd depending on the road speed and which gear is best suited for that down shift. What we found is that when this flare happens it is very rough on the input shaft and the 2nd gear ďOne-Way-RollerĒ. If the driver lets this condition occur enough while driving (and believe me it can be felt) it eventually hurts the second gear sprag (also known as the One-Way-Roller). Newer ones use a ratcheting mechanism not a conventional One-Way-Roller.

    What I do on the cars that have lots of power added to them like a blower etc. is make efforts to program the chip so that it doesnít so easily want to down shift from 4th at higher speeds and high throttle angles. Once a power adder has been installed they really can handle staying in 4th all the time at speeds over 60-70 unless the driver really woods the gas pedal. The way I program toque converters to stay unlocked at speeds under 60ish, they hardly ever need to down shift out of 4th at light loads just to pass other cars easily. This feels rather nice even when they donít have a power adder. Just let the converter do what itís meant to do - multiply torque.

    In short if you made it this far reading this:
    Firm up the shifts accordingly and keep an AOD-E or 4R70W out of OverDrive when you know youíre going to be very abusive and they are very reliable. To avoid the 4th down shift problem at highway speeds, I recommend to manually turn off OD while just beginning to mash the pedal and if you time it right it will begin to down shift from 4th before the power really comes on and the 4th downshift flare is not as noticble and wont damage the trans. Plus it takes lots of these type of 4th downshifting flares to do the damage.

    If you made it this farÖ. Thanks for reading this!!

    Just wanted to share some insight into and my experience with the 4R70W.


    I may not be at the top (yet) but definitely on top of things.

    Lidio Iacobelli
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  2. #2
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    How do you feel about the deeper aluminum tranny pans that holds 2-3 quarts more fluid and using full synthetic ATF like Redline ATF or Amsoil ATF? Are these 2 items some preventative maintaince?
    2003 - black w/ dark charcoal 300a. polished full size spare, carpeted lid trunk organizer - 2w7z-54115a00-aa, black rear spoiler - 2w7z-5444210-aab, matte black door edge guards - yw7z-5420910-ba, all weather molded vinyl black floor mats - 1w7z-5413086-ha (front) & 1w4z-5413106-ca (rear), Gorilla spline drive chrome plated locking lug nuts, Kenwood kfc-6808c 6x8 3-way speakers in front & rear, Kenwood kfc-1705 6.75" subwoofer, Clarion Proaudio DXZ-835 CD receiver, Clarion Proaudio DCZ 6-disc CD changer, Clarion SIRCL Sirius satellite radio tuner, Superchips tuner, Borla cat back exhaust, SVO rear girdle (T/A performance) & stud kit, Dynotech MMC racing driveshaft, B&M 3 quart+ aluminum finned tranny pan.

  3. #3
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    How about tranny cooler? would you use a tranny cooler plumbed in after the radiator cooler or alone?
    2003 - black w/ dark charcoal 300a. polished full size spare, carpeted lid trunk organizer - 2w7z-54115a00-aa, black rear spoiler - 2w7z-5444210-aab, matte black door edge guards - yw7z-5420910-ba, all weather molded vinyl black floor mats - 1w7z-5413086-ha (front) & 1w4z-5413106-ca (rear), Gorilla spline drive chrome plated locking lug nuts, Kenwood kfc-6808c 6x8 3-way speakers in front & rear, Kenwood kfc-1705 6.75" subwoofer, Clarion Proaudio DXZ-835 CD receiver, Clarion Proaudio DCZ 6-disc CD changer, Clarion SIRCL Sirius satellite radio tuner, Superchips tuner, Borla cat back exhaust, SVO rear girdle (T/A performance) & stud kit, Dynotech MMC racing driveshaft, B&M 3 quart+ aluminum finned tranny pan.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by joflewbyu2@aol.
    How about tranny cooler? would you use a tranny cooler plumbed in after the radiator cooler or alone?
    Joe,
    I believe the OEM cooler is separate from the radiator instead of being inside the radiator like some older cars were. If you look closely you can see it between the radiator and the air conditioner condenser coil. However, a bigger one may be a good idea.
    Thanks to Darrin @ BC Automotive:
    $1800 and it was worse than when he started!

    Brian (FordNut) FPG # 1458 of 7838
    03 MM 300A (Lotsa mods, 130k mi) was 303rwhp/318rwtq N/A
    then 476/410 D1SC ProCharged on stock block
    then 660/555 D1SC PC on 5.3 wet sleeved Teksid alum big bore stroker
    then 365/369 N/A on 5.3 wet sleeved Teksid alum big bore stroker
    Now 751/617 3.4L Whipple on 5.3 Boss5.0 iron big bore stroker

    03 MM 300B Silver (Mostly stock, wife's car, 300k mi) FPG # 7053 of 7838 or 49 of 417 SB
    03 MM 300B Silver, Stock, 50k mi FPG # 7134 of 7838 or 89 of 417 SB
    01 F150
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    Mods listed here (some items not current): FordNut's Mods

  5. #5
    Lloyd330 Guest
    very well put Lidio,
    i have the 4R70W in my 96' 4.6 cougar and it has been trouble free for 95K miles.
    i also would like to add that i did the famous "J-Mod" about 5 months ago, and am VERY pleased with the results. This mod has been around for awhile and is tested and true. ( all info on j-mod and the 4r70w can be found here:
    http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/index.html#
    One question for you on your j-mod trans. did you leave out the springs on the 1-2 accumulator? on my cougar, i left one out and it gives me very quick shifts, breaking traction with ease. (drilled the plate to mildest setting)
    Another plus to the j-mod is the ease at which it can be done. i did mine basically in 5 hours, and i took my time checking and double checking.

    on the cooler issue, definately bigger is better and can really help to prolong the life of the fluid and transmission itself.

    frank

  6. #6
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    Deeper pans for me and AODís + 4R70Wís have been uncommon. With most applications when the converter is stock or some what tight and not super loose. Even when we run around with the converter unlocked most of the time on the streetÖ the temps donít seem to get out of hand and the capacity with the stock pan really seems to be enough. Iíd say with a smaller/loser converter which will loose some capacity and run a hotter from greater slippage, a deeper pan and even larger external cooler would be some thing to consider.
    Here at our shop when we do a looser converter like the Stallion in the Mustangs, we require a external supplemental cooler but not a deeper pan. This has proven to be very reliable.

    Trilogy number 1 has no extra trans cooler and all the Torque converter non-locking street stuff I do and not one issue. Iíve monitored the trans temps on these through Auto-Tap and it hovers around 200-210 all the time. This is not a problem.

    We did the J-Mod as described (accumulator springs and all on the more aggressive settings) but didnít touch the 3rd and 4th stuff because they donít need it. We found that through programming we could get all but the 1-2 shift very hard. On lower power applications, like a MM with no power-adder and just Bolt-OnísÖ I feel that the Valve body needs no tampering at all.
    My MM hits very hard @ WOT right now with all the TV stuff just jacked-up through programming (never dropped the pan).
    Iím not saying that the J-Mod isnít cool. Itís in my opinion best suited to 4R70Ws that are at intermediate HP levels. On the local MM we did it too, it also got upgraded 2nd gear clutches as I stated earlier. This still didnít make a super hard/positive 1-2 upshift, but expectable and much better then stock. It still could have used more of a boost in main-line pressure, which usually can only be done with spring changes in the valve-body with Shift-Kits.

    We only use regular ATFís here on all automatic transmissions with regular maintenance.
    Synthetic ATFís just cost to much and we never really found any thing substantial there. All of our results and experience has been with regular store bought ATFís.


    Thanks


    I may not be at the top (yet) but definitely on top of things.

    Lidio Iacobelli
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  7. #7
    Marauderer Guest

    There is always one out there!

    Agree or disagree, at least we are getting some good info that doesn't have to be bought and paid for three times over, not to mention another point of view that comes from "Real World" experience. There is always more than one way to skin a cat and always more than one set of experiences that shape and mold what each individual comes to believe. That is what makes us who we are and not simply mental clones of one another .
    Last edited by Logan; 01-21-2004 at 06:28 AM. Reason: Slight content alteration to clean up thread.

  8. #8
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    OK

    Before this gets into a ďwhose is biggerĒ thing, let me start off by saying that in no way did I say that Jerry the (J-Mod) guy doesnít know his stuff!!

    As my entire post started off sayingÖ. This Is From EXPERIENCE with LOTS of MY OWN AODís, AOD-Eís, and 4R70Wís plus countless customers since the mid 90ís. This is not second hand info that I got from another forum or repeated hear-say. Honest hands-on. Take it for what itís worth or donít. This was not aimed at offending any one and their opinions, experiences or methods with the Ford rear drive Automatic-Overdrives Iím referring to.

    The Trilogy kit started out as being a true bolt-on and still is. Only the #1 Trilogy MM got the 1-2 accumulator messed with. None of the other 11 or so weíve installed for customers at our facility have had the accumulator touched.

    Trilogy #1 is technically a test bed and different things where tried and tested as we went along. This is what a test bed is for. I wouldnít say that any one was misled by anything here.

    I feel that through programming Iíve achieved a good shift at WOT (with out a Valve-Body Mod) with the chip that comes with Trilogy kits. Yes I admit, like I said in my first post that the 1-2 shift is not as hard as I would like @ WOT, but if the Trilogy boost level is left stock they all seem to be fine. And if they have a 4.10 in the axleÖ this helps the 1-2 shift feel even better and crisper.

    If the customer goes beyond the factory level of boost (at least with the Trilogy 9.5psi) and has many other things done as well to gain more HP, then some thought and consideration should be given to "Shift-Kitting" the trans or some thing of that nature. Although weíve already installed smaller pulleys (for more Boost) on about 4 of the Trilogy customers and still havenít modded their trans's in any way with no problems yet.

    As far as I know all the Trilogy cars out there except for one local guyÖ none have had a trans problem that I know of. Unless they havenít spoken up?

    On my own MMÖ which starts to get the Trilogy treatment next week.
    Here are my intensions;
    Iím going to try to make as much boost as the Trilogy/Eaton will make (with-in the limits of 93 octane)
    I will do a bigger 90mm MAF, Large Oval Throttle body and a K&N filter charger kit (Just the K&N thing is a proven 29 RWHP on the í03 Cobraís with no other mods, I couldnít believe it, but I seen it) along with a smaller blower pulley. All this should get me about 13-15psi of boost. Iím leaving all of the stock exhaust alone for now because roots type blower equipped motors donít gain tremendous amounts of power because these blowers tend to fall off at real high rpms when big exhaust really helps. Just ask í03 Cobra and í99 and up Lightning owners after they spend 1500.00 on complete exhaust systems, itís usually only a gain of about 15-25 RWHP(Iím sure Iíll hear it about this one too). This is good and it is something worth mentioning and I will do some thing here eventually, but for me and my MM, Iím leaving all of the exhaust alone at first.
    I already have 4.10ís. My goal is to go low, low 12ís in the ľ mile like 12.10ís or so and then I have a 30-40 shot of NOS going on the car as well to try to get that 11 second number out of the car. I intend to do this with the stock 4R70W and a ďBaumannĒ shift kit. (these shift kits are all I usually use with great success for many years now) Iím confident that the stock trans will live up to this for a while. After all Iíve gone 8.90ís with one in a í93 Mustang coupe (780RWHP) this past summer and high 9ís in my 3450lbs Yellow í88 LX (645 RWHP) for several years.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Lidio; 01-20-2004 at 10:31 PM.


    I may not be at the top (yet) but definitely on top of things.

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  9. #9
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    Lidio...I for one thank you for your info...no flames here-just gratitude to someone who has experience and IMNSHO is better than a lot of bookish type knowledge...my father was a master machanic and was always laughing about guys who could quote numbers and specs and parts but could not turn a wrench in the right direction...again this is info is very useful to me because I have not had good experiences with Ford OD trannys...thinking about super tuning because the slipping between gears and wear associated with the slipage...thanks willie...
    ---------------------------------------
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    275 rwhp/303 lbs. torque

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    Thread truncated to the point of last sane comment and some posts slightly altered to remove the incursion...Carry on folks and play nice, I don't want to close this useful thread.

  11. #11
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    I thank all for their help and their opinions from experience. And as always, I will offer my experiences & help in trying to help others.
    2003 - black w/ dark charcoal 300a. polished full size spare, carpeted lid trunk organizer - 2w7z-54115a00-aa, black rear spoiler - 2w7z-5444210-aab, matte black door edge guards - yw7z-5420910-ba, all weather molded vinyl black floor mats - 1w7z-5413086-ha (front) & 1w4z-5413106-ca (rear), Gorilla spline drive chrome plated locking lug nuts, Kenwood kfc-6808c 6x8 3-way speakers in front & rear, Kenwood kfc-1705 6.75" subwoofer, Clarion Proaudio DXZ-835 CD receiver, Clarion Proaudio DCZ 6-disc CD changer, Clarion SIRCL Sirius satellite radio tuner, Superchips tuner, Borla cat back exhaust, SVO rear girdle (T/A performance) & stud kit, Dynotech MMC racing driveshaft, B&M 3 quart+ aluminum finned tranny pan.

  12. #12
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    Just my .02C

    Thanks for your time and thought on this topic, Lidio, your 411 seems right on the money. I wish you had mentioned some of this during my visit yesterday, could have save me some typing here.

    IMHO, your method of tuning the 4R70W seems quite similar to Jerry's. I have the good fortune of having Jerry rebuild my tranny, and while the two of you, both with years of experience behind you, have different views on minor points, the end results seem to be the same improvements.

    Indeed, there is more to the valve body improvements than just enlarging a few holes. But, the one thing you may not have considered, are Jerry's adjustments to the ECM after tuning the hardware. My 1-2 shift will knock your socks off. Once I get my traction concerns resolved in the spring, I'm expecting to land a quarter in the back seat at the launch. Next time we get together in better weather, you're welcome to take a "no holds barred" drive in my MM.

    We do disagree on the lock-up or not issue, but this is a "tastes great-less filling" difference of personal preferrence. It just seems to work better for me and my driving habits, to lock thing up. Of course, cops like locking things up anyway...LOL!

    I agree that the AOD, AOD-E and 4R70W trannys are highly durable and in many cases, the only way to fly. However, for some mysterious reason, QC at the tranny production line is absent. I've seen two trannys now where internals were assembled wrong, and there seems to be a stream of defective internals out here in MM land. First the "c" clip thingy, now the stub shaft.

    Now that FMC has dipped this low in QC, will it ever recover? Was a day you could count on some things from Ford, but it doesn't feel that reliable anymore. I've been driving FMC products most of my adult life, and in very dangerous situations too. I've never seen more wrong with one car at one time. Today it's first you buy the car, then you buy the quality from your favorite vendor and pay out of pocket, again, what should have come from the factory. There again, I've never compared notes with other a nation apart, and internationally too. Could be things are tolerable on a nationwide plane, and we are the cause of our own panic just by sharing notes.

    So, to be fair to L/M on this, maybe the QC isn't their fault? They delayed the release of this car a number of times, and maybe, just maybe, their last minute decision to launch in '03 triggered a mad rush to meet short deadlines, and the parts sent in from outside sources did not get the customary QC inspections. Someone here mentioned a while ago, that the main thrust inside L/M to release this car, was a stack of InTech 4V engines on hand, why not hang them on Panther frames and see what happens? A little show, a little go, and by the time we run out of engines, the car is done anyway. Good business, but did FMC have a stack of 4R70W trannys too? Or, none at all? One way or another, the customary FMC QC isn't present in this run of trannys, and we the owners, are out in the cold.

    Shortly after leaving your shop, I met with Jerry W. on other business. He was (again) rebuilding a MM tranny (no one here) and he showed me another bad stub shaft from the factory. This one tore up some internals, and a normally pressed into place bearing race fell out in his hand. Anyone's untrained eye could see the misalignment and poor machine work of the internals. Sadly, this particular MM has mods that keep it's owner away from the dealer/warranty at this time, and herein lies the rub.

    These deficienties only come to the surface after mods and "spirited" use by the owner. They need to be seen and dealt with by Ford. Collecting the details on bonafide failures is what builds support for the owner with TSBs and "silent recalls." But, because we mod, and drive hard, we get stopped at the warranty door and shown our way out of the building. Catch 22.

    All things considered, the 4R70W is perfect for the MM, but as I have posted elsewhere, how you mod and drive your own MM will dictate what you need to do inside the 4R70W. Likewise, I agree with you in you thoughts about synthetic fluids, deeper pans, and coolers. This was also part of that other post.

    One thing I would like to clarify, and I am glad I spoke with Lidio over the phone before posting this. This "J-Mod" Lidio performed did not come from Jerry Wrobleski. The "J-Mod" name is a nick-name for a list of shortcuts in modding the 4R70W tranny in it's MM application. It stems from Jerry's work, but Jerry did not create this "J-Mod."

    Jerry's work on the 4R70W is extensive. Many of y'all do not know he is the FMC engineer who designed this tranny 11 years ago. He has documented a lot of 411 about FMC automatic transmissions in a technical paper posted elsewhere on the web. Thanks to LLoyd300, there is a link to that site right ^ here. Y'all should take a peek at it, this is Jerry W's original work. It's a tough read for any novice, but every time you read it, you get more and more out of it, hang in there.

    Well, someone wanted the crib note version, so they reviewed Jerry's extensive notes, and wrote a shorter version calling it the "J-Mod." I've not gone over this "J-Mod" in detail, and I'm not going to. I want my guidance to come from people like Lidio, Jerry W, Dennis Reinhart, Dyno Dave, Brad Bockstanz and Scott (Team Ford), all people who feed their families doing this work everyday. I find their advice solid, sound and trustworthy, "on the money" means on my money, and it goes into their skilled hands.

    If you're following the "J-Mod" prescription for the 4R70W, it's not Jerry Wrobleski telling you where and what to drill. Like Lidio here, I'd expect your results to be disappointing too. Go read the real deal, and act accordingly. Maybe then, your tranny problems will go away, as mine have. Enough of the "J-Mod" nick-name too, it's more disrespectful than you know.

    Maybe this stuff is rocket science to some of you, and a walk in the park for others. But, if you want to know what's hot and what's not, talk to the professionals, pay them for their time if you have too. At least then, you'll be entitled to enjoy one copy of their intellectual labor, maybe save yourself from a copyright infringement suit for violating Jerry's intellectual property rights. Thank goodness, Jerry isn't Microsoft.

    Again, thanks for a great contribution to this site, Lidio, and I apologize for misunderstanding a few things. I am glad we got a lot sorted out.

  13. #13
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    I tell you, I can read stuff like this everyday and not get tired. all you Gentlemen deserve a
    I'll keep my Freedom, my Money, my Religion, my Guns & you can keep the " Change ".

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ADELG670
    What IS that^^^

  15. #15
    Marauderer Guest

    J-mod

    Sarge, if you're talking about the J-mod I posted, which by the way was only an "update" on how to do this for the Marauder in particlar and not my invention, then all I can say is gibberish. I have the email from Jerry W. personally telling me what to drill and what size to drill it. Additionaly, I did this not only on his advice but his INSISTENCE that I do it before I do any more WOT pulls. This advice came while we were road testing my car after he had worked on it on the dyno for about 3 hours in Detroit and if memory serves me correctly, HE referred to it as the J-mod so I don't get your disrespect comment...........

    Take it to the bank.

    Again, you write a post that sounds good, but has nothing to back it up. You Sir, lack the experience for your words.
    Last edited by Marauderer; 01-22-2004 at 07:48 AM.

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