Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21

Thread: Reinhart's SVO shorties exhaust system vs. Cobra exhaust manifold exhaust system

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,157

    Reinhart's SVO shorties exhaust system vs. Cobra exhaust manifold exhaust system

    Okay, lemme just get this straight . . .

    After months of internal debate, I'm finally ready for headers. I would love the Kooks, but the install cost I understand is very high. Now, the Reinhart "Spring Sale" $900 exhaust kit is for the ceramic-coated Cobra exhaust manifolds and NOT for the SVO shorties exhaust system?

    I was interested in the SVO shortie exhaust system, for the same reason, I think, that TAF originally chose the SVO shorties over the Cobra exhaust manifold route--purely cosmetics, i.e., they LOOK like headers, right? And the Cobra exhaust mainifold, well, looks like an exhaust manifold, and the fact that the Cobra manifold looks more "unmodified," "more factory," since it's basically a cast iron manifold, yes?

    Are there any other pros and cons of the SVO shorties vs. the Cobra exhaust manifolds that I'm missing here? Doesn't the Cobra manifold weigh more than the SVO shorties?

    These are what I think are the facts--please confirm/deny at will . . .

    1. Cobra exhaust manifolds are cast iron. True or false?
    2. Cobra exhaust manifolds are heavier than the SVO shorties. True or false?
    3. Cobra exhaust manifolds are NOT internally ported and polished, simply "port-matched" (which simply means that the orifices on the manifold are the same size and shape as the orifices they're mounting to) True or false?
    4. Both system's X-pipe and extension pipes are 2.5-inch diameter. True or false?
    5. The SVO shorties offer only slighty improved performance numbers over the Cobra exhaust manifolds. True or false?
    6. The brand of the high flow cats of either system have not been stated. True or false?
    7. The the high flow cats of either system do not have a CARB number. True or false?
    8. The only benefit of the Cobra manifold over the SVOs is its "factory look" to better preserve warranty claims. True or false?
    9. The primary benefit of the SVOs over the Cobra manifold is its "header look." True or false?
    10. The Reinhart SVO shorties exhaust system also includes everything you need except mufflers. True or false?
    11. The Reinhart ceramic-coated SVO shorties exhaust system is NOT on sale for $900, and are more expensive. True or false?
    12. The Reinhart ceramic-coated SVO shorties exhaust system with high flow cats probably WOULD pass a California emmissions test when new. True or false?
    13. The Reinhart ceramic-coated SVO shorties exhaust system with high flow cats would probably NOT pass a California emmissions test after 2-5 years. True or false?

    Thanks for any and all input!

    2003 Mercury Marauder 300B, matte-black, S55 taillights.
    B&M transmission/Precision Industries TC; Eibach-lowered; Addco rear anti-sway; Metco rear control arms; Steeda UDP; 180° 'stat.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Off-Shore America
    Posts
    10,219
    Quote Originally Posted by NBC Shooter
    Okay, lemme just get this straight . . .
    1. Cobra exhaust manifolds are cast iron. True or false?
    2. Cobra exhaust manifolds are heavier than the SVO shorties. True or false?
    3. Cobra exhaust manifolds are NOT internally ported and polished, simply "port-matched" (which simply means that the orifices on the manifold are the same size and shape as the orifices they're mounting to) True or false?
    4. Both system's X-pipe and extension pipes are 2.5-inch diameter. True or false?
    5. The SVO shorties offer only slighty improved performance numbers over the Cobra exhaust manifolds. True or false?
    6. The brand of the high flow cats of either system have not been stated. True or false?
    7. The the high flow cats of either system do not have a CARB number. True or false?
    8. The only benefit of the Cobra manifold over the SVOs is its "factory look" to better preserve warranty claims. True or false?
    9. The primary benefit of the SVOs over the Cobra manifold is its "header look." True or false?
    10. The Reinhart SVO shorties exhaust system also includes everything you need except mufflers. True or false?
    11. The Reinhart ceramic-coated SVO shorties exhaust system is NOT on sale for $900, and are more expensive. True or false?
    12. The Reinhart ceramic-coated SVO shorties exhaust system with high flow cats probably WOULD pass a California emmissions test when new. True or false?
    13. The Reinhart ceramic-coated SVO shorties exhaust system with high flow cats would probably NOT pass a California emmissions test after 2-5 years. True or false?

    Thanks for any and all input!
    1) True
    2) Probably, why?
    3) Ummm...Ask Dennis. Mine were on the car before this point was debated, and I haven't seen proof that they are not internally polished. Port matched, yes.
    4) Yes, and no. X pipe is 2.5" OD, extension pipes on Reinhart kit neck down to 2.0" OD to fit OEM mufflers, but this can be upgraded to 2.5" OD.
    5) Never saw that proven, but I note that once the Cobra system developed 30 RWHP and 20 RWTQ on my MM, Dennis discontinued offering the shorties.
    6) False. Bassani.
    7) No CARB number that I recall.
    8) "Only?" What about the increase in performance?
    9) "Pirmary?" Well, I guess. I do not recall any "before/after" performance testing that isolated SVO header performance, but I am sure they perform well for their cost. I just can't say how much, it was never measured. Moreover, they had better look like headers, because that's what they are.
    10) Dennis may have offered an SVO shorty header kit, but I don't recall that. Once he offered the Cobra kit sometime around Sept. '03, he stopped selling the SVO shorties.
    11) Not sure on this, I would have to page through the posts to answer for sure, but I believe there is a "group buy" thingy going on right now. If the Cobra kit IS on sale for 900 bucks, that's a sweet deal for a complete exhaust system that's proven to deliver good bang for the buck. Call Dennis?
    12) This probably relies more on a good tune than the exhaust system, but I would say yes, it will pass.
    13) Objection your Honor, calls for speculation by the witness.

    You're welcome.

    Did I pass?

    Are you scoring on a curve?

  3. #3
    darebren Guest
    there was no comparison for me. didn't you always draw cars as a kid with huge long headers? I never drew any with ported polished manifolds, no dig against them, and for the cost best bang for buck all around, but I thought I only had one chance to do go for the gusto when deciding what to do..

  4. #4
    I highly recommend the shorties over the manifolds. I think Dennis will still sell them (the SVO shorties) to you...if not, let me know...I know where you can get them.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Houston, Republic of Texas
    Age
    72
    Posts
    2,475
    [QUOTE=NBC Shooter]I was interested in the SVO shortie exhaust system, for the same reason, I think, that TAF originally chose the SVO shorties over the Cobra exhaust manifold route--purely cosmetics, i.e., they LOOK like headers, right?


    Todd can correct me on this, but didn't he have the shorties BEFORE Dennis came out with the ported Cobra system?
    2003 MM 300A
    Born June 18, 2002
    Adopted Christmas Eve, 2002
    First Factory Rebuilt Ford P.O.S. Engine at 81,000 miles
    Second Factory Rebuilt Ford P.O.S. Engine at 101,000 miles
    Ford Racing 4.10's
    Reinhart/XCal2 Custom Tune
    Reinhart Underdrive Pulleys
    K&N Conical Air Filter
    Reinhart Exhaust with 18" Magnaflows
    Silencer Removed
    Bosch Micro Edge Excel Wiper Blades
    Bob White Red Bumper Inserts
    Lone Star Beer in cup holder
    Fellowship of Christian Cowboys
    license plate bracket
    ****************************** *********

    God and the soldier we adore, In times of danger, not before.
    The danger gone, the trouble righted, God's forgotten, the soldier slighted.

    ****************************** *********

    Cynicism is the smoke rising from the ashes of burned out dreams.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Everett, WA
    Age
    65
    Posts
    2,744
    Quote Originally Posted by darebren
    go for the gusto
    I second that commotion
    2003 300A Black Mercury Marauder 4334 of 7839
    Trilogy #150 installed by Carfixer & Tallboy 4/21/2007
    (brute's garage)


  7. #7
    [QUOTE=Ross]
    Quote Originally Posted by NBC Shooter
    I was interested in the SVO shortie exhaust system, for the same reason, I think, that TAF originally chose the SVO shorties over the Cobra exhaust manifold route--purely cosmetics, i.e., they LOOK like headers, right?


    Todd can correct me on this, but didn't he have the shorties BEFORE Dennis came out with the ported Cobra system?
    Well...actually no, Ross. The "jet-coated" (outside only) and not ported or polished manifolds were available. But, other than just looking like shinier OEMs (cause there are NO CHANGES to the ports) I decided to go with the shorties.
    From what I've seen in before/after dynos on N/A cars...if you go with the manifolds...the REAL gains come from the hi-flow cats and freeing up with 2.5" all the way back to the mufflers with the X-pipe.

    Here are the before/after dyno numbers when I did the shorties. It is even broken down to show the increase in RWHP & RWTQ with just the headers, hi-flos & X-pipe vs. freeing up the rest of the "plumbing" to the Magnaflow mufflers.

    http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forum...hlight=atlanta
    Last edited by TAF; 04-30-2004 at 08:21 AM.

  8. #8
    dailydriver Guest
    Will either os these manifolds bolt directly to the rest of the stock system(H pipe, cats, mufflers)?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Off-Shore America
    Posts
    10,219
    Quote Originally Posted by TAF
    Here are the before/after dyno numbers when I did the shorties. It is even broken down to show the increase in RWHP & RWTQ with just the headers, hi-flos & X-pipe vs. freeing up the rest of the "plumbing" to the Magnaflow mufflers.

    http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forum...hlight=atlanta
    My apologies to TAF here, his independent testing of the shorty headers, and their performance slipped my mind while posting my reply.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    TX
    Age
    61
    Posts
    1,685
    Shooter,
    My guess on the CA emmissions testing would be ANY header would flag the visual portion of the CA test.
    A coated stock manifold would be an easier sell to the test station.

    "No I just coated them so they LOOK better".

    I think the cats would still perform in 4-5 years as well then as now.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Near Knoxville TN
    Age
    67
    Posts
    10,717
    Quote Originally Posted by dailydriver
    Will either os these manifolds bolt directly to the rest of the stock system(H pipe, cats, mufflers)?
    No. The only system that will bolt up to the OEM stuff is the Borla. It bolts on to the flanges behind the cats, leaving the OEM manifolds and cats in place. No positng of dyno stats on this system have been posted.

    Replacing the OEM manifolds with the SVO shorties, Ceramic coated Cobra manifolds, or Kooks system replaces everything from the heads to the muffler inlets and can be bolted on. Replacing the mufflers will require welding.

    Put on the shorties or manifolds and you'll get a lot of "that's nice", put on the long tubes and it's more ooh, ahh, sweeet, etc.
    Thanks to Darrin @ BC Automotive:
    $1800 and it was worse than when he started!

    Brian (FordNut) FPG # 1458 of 7838
    03 MM 300A (Lotsa mods, 130k mi) was 303rwhp/318rwtq N/A
    then 476/410 D1SC ProCharged on stock block
    then 660/555 D1SC PC on 5.3 wet sleeved Teksid alum big bore stroker
    then 365/369 N/A on 5.3 wet sleeved Teksid alum big bore stroker
    Now 751/617 3.4L Whipple on 5.3 Boss5.0 iron big bore stroker

    03 MM 300B Silver (Mostly stock, originally wife's car, 370k mi) FPG # 7053 of 7838 or 49 of 417 SB
    03 MM 300B Silver, Stock, wife's next one, 136k mi FPG # 7134 of 7838 or 89 of 417 SB
    04 MM Silver, Stock, on standby 85k mi, FPG # 1212 of 3214 or 432 of 997 SB
    01 F150 longbed
    01 F150 shortbed
    00 F150 4x4 stepside
    01 F150 4x4 7700
    68 Stang FB (70 351C 4V, 4 wheel discs, project car)

    Mods listed here (some items not current): FordNut's Mods

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Cape Cod, MA
    Posts
    13,676
    OK. The mod program for the SR-71 has been on hold, as I was waiting, hoping, PRAYING that Ford would build the fabled 2005.5 S/C version. Alas. So now I have no choice but to continue.

    I have a couple questions, as there seem to be 3 "headers" being talked about, the Cobra, the SVO, and the Kook's...I understand the Kook's is a "traditional" long-tube header and that it makes most of it's performance gains in the higher RPMs, correct? Even thought that total gain may be higher than the other choices, I would have to push the car harder to realise it, in addition to the cost and installation factors. So that leaves me with the Cobra, as Dennis no longer recommends the SVO, right?

    See, I'm not interested in making the ultimate in power, if it all comes in only at higher RPMs...I want to kind of fill in the lower end, more than raise the higher end...so my actual question is: would I then be better off with the Cobra's and Dennis's high-flow cats, leaving the rest of the exhaust system stock?
    The Blackbird
    Trilogy #61
    Driveway Queen

    The Spruce Goose
    2004 Grand Marquis LS Limited Edition
    Daily Driver

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Near Knoxville TN
    Age
    67
    Posts
    10,717
    Quote Originally Posted by RF Overlord
    I understand the Kook's is a "traditional" long-tube header and that it makes most of it's performance gains in the higher RPMs, correct?
    Not true. Most Kooks cars have a very wide, flat torque curve. Mine makes 240 ft-lb at 1500 rpm and 309 ft-lb at 4100 rpm.

    The reason most people have the impression that long tube headers kill low rpm torque is that traditionally hot rodders have employed the bigger is better approach so the header manufacturers oblige them with huge primary tubes. The large diameter primary tubes do kill low rpm torque to gain a narrow hp peak. The Kooks headers most of us are using are 1-5/8 primaries. A very few are using 1-7/8 primaries but that is with other power adders such as nitrous or blowers.

    The optimal design length for header primary tubes to make good low rpm power is about 34". The Kooks are not equal length, but the shortest I measured was about 16" and the longest about 26" or so. The other options do not even have primary tubes or collectors, they just dump the exhaust into a chamber.

    Edit: There really isn't much difference in the power numbers on the dyno between the different systems. I've had overlays of dyno pulls from several of the different exhaust system configurations and they all make good power.

    Edit: Just realized this thread is in DR's forum, Moderators feel free to delete my comments about competitor's product. Sorry...
    Last edited by FordNut; 04-30-2004 at 05:09 PM.
    Thanks to Darrin @ BC Automotive:
    $1800 and it was worse than when he started!

    Brian (FordNut) FPG # 1458 of 7838
    03 MM 300A (Lotsa mods, 130k mi) was 303rwhp/318rwtq N/A
    then 476/410 D1SC ProCharged on stock block
    then 660/555 D1SC PC on 5.3 wet sleeved Teksid alum big bore stroker
    then 365/369 N/A on 5.3 wet sleeved Teksid alum big bore stroker
    Now 751/617 3.4L Whipple on 5.3 Boss5.0 iron big bore stroker

    03 MM 300B Silver (Mostly stock, originally wife's car, 370k mi) FPG # 7053 of 7838 or 49 of 417 SB
    03 MM 300B Silver, Stock, wife's next one, 136k mi FPG # 7134 of 7838 or 89 of 417 SB
    04 MM Silver, Stock, on standby 85k mi, FPG # 1212 of 3214 or 432 of 997 SB
    01 F150 longbed
    01 F150 shortbed
    00 F150 4x4 stepside
    01 F150 4x4 7700
    68 Stang FB (70 351C 4V, 4 wheel discs, project car)

    Mods listed here (some items not current): FordNut's Mods

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Off-Shore America
    Posts
    10,219
    This feels more like a vendor war now, and I don't like vendor wars.

    Who ever builds good stuff for the MM, is a good vendor to me. Because I type the word "Dennis" often here, I am only tracking who has done what. Let's leave it there, K?

    If you want maximum performance from your MM, buy Kook's headers, and connect them to Magnaflow mufflers, and Wes Chain tips. Noise be damned, this is the best performing set up, period. Real headers too, and as "full length" as they come today. If you believe you own a real "street animal," Kook's headers are for you.

    If you want to improve over OEM performance, but need to stay undercover about it, both in performance and sound, and for warranty/CARB/wifey/loud concerns, get the DR Cobra kit. You can get performance, and keep your OEM mufflers and tips. Or, change mufflers and tips too, which won't matter for performance, just for sound.

    If you want that same improvement over OEM performance, but want everyone to see your headers, and don't have any warranty/CARB/Wifey/loud concerns, get the "shorty" headers from anyone, they are real headers too. Likewise, add Magnaflows and Wes Chain tips for louder, bolder and bad.

    Are we still talking about performance and exhaust systems?

  15. #15
    89lxbill Guest
    It is a common misconception that long tubes kill low end torque. Just the opposite is true. In last months MM&FF they tested long tube header vs equal length shorty vs standard shorty headers on a 347 and the long tubes actually had slightly less peak hp#s, but as much as 20+ ft lbs more torque under the curve at lower rpms. The peaks were almost identical.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •