Blackmobile blown motor fund...

[magindat]

The motor, broken into shortblock, heads, and assorted other parts have been delivered to Al Papitto at Boss330 Racing.

His initial take was that he was very impressed with the internal cleanliness of the 130K mile motor. He said most 50-60K motors aren't as clean.

He believes, upon cursory look, that the heads are good and the block may be able to be saved.

The damaged caused by this broken piston:



is not nearly as severe as many he's seen (and some he showed me!).

This gouge :



was likely caused by the ring 'sticking' to the wall due to the high heat of detonation and then being broken off by the down-stroke.

He will be performing an 'autopsy' and will then make recommendations. Initially he thinks the block may be saved by a .020 over. He says he's going to start with .006 - .008 over in that piston and see if it looks like it'll go.

If the block can be saved, the initial plan is to rebuild with new (forged, of course) parts including .020 over with 2cc dish pistons resulting in a net compression of about 9.0-1 which should be perfect for boost.

This post is not put up for the sake of arguement, but to let everyone know where their money is going and to regurgitate what I've had the privelege of learning from such a knowledgable source.

Fortunately, for Ed and for all of us, Al has been very personable and cooperative and has seemed to join our spirit of co-marauder-y. I am grateful and humbled to have his help and to be making a friend.

I have shown him this thread and invited him to join us.

Thanx, Al.

I'll post more later and will post pics as I take them thanks to Al's agreeing to allow such close and public view of this rebuild.

I'd like to keep it all here, on this thread, and I'll link to this 'beginning' in the first post.

More to come...

[Local Boy]

Thanks Al, for your knowledge and thoughtfulness...

ALOHA

BTW: Right-on Rich!

[Zack]

9.0:1 Compression = Mistake.

It will be perfect for 20+psi, nothing less!

[Blackmobile]

9.0:1 Compression = Mistake.

It will be perfect for 20+psi, nothing less!

Be so kind as to explain why a cobra creat motor is OK, but using 9.0:1
pistons in a block is a mistake? Aren't cobra motors built with lower compression pistons?

[MarauderTJA]

9.0:1 Compression = Mistake.

It will be perfect for 20+psi, nothing less!

I am running 9.3:1 at 18 lbs boost which has worked out great in my setup. I agree with you Zack, "UNLESS" Ed is planning on more than 20 lbs boost, and you never know with him. He is a drag racer.

[MarauderTJA]

Be so kind as to explain why a cobra creat motor is OK, but using 9.0:1
pistons in a block is a mistake? Aren't cobra motors built with lower compression pistons?

Cobra motors have 8.5:1 compression, use a roots blower and are lighter than the Marauders. I am not sure, but the crate motors have 9.0:1 compression. Is that correct Zack? Sailsman motor is a Cobra crate motor and he is pushing 541 RWHP.

[Zack]

I dont agree with using cobra motors with low compression, sorry if i conveyed that at some point.

High compression and high boost go together just fine.

Whatever you decide to do is YOUR choice, and I will support it.
Personally, I would go no lower than 9.75:1

[Blackmobile]

I dont agree with using cobra motors with low compression, sorry if i conveyed that at some point.

High compression and high boost go together just fine.

Whatever you decide to do is YOUR choice, and I will support it.
Personally, I would go no lower than 9.75:1

I'm just trying to see all options. I personally want to stay at 10:1 but then I herd somewhere that stock was 9.7:1 and that Cobra's were 8.0:1.
I usually play at the low end of the power curve, which is why I loved the Underdrive pulleys so much.

[Pops]

Ed my new motor is 9.3 per PHP recomendation. Have not driven it yet. I heard it run today for the first time and know that it made 560 RWP and 509 torque at 5500 rpm and 14 lbs of boost. They have not had it any higher than that yet. From looking at the file on it it seemed to have a lot of torque down low. Al is good so you should talk to him and make a decision after you get the facts.

[MarauderTJA]

Al recommended for me the 9.3:1 compression for my motor At the time I told him I wanted the motor to be able to handle 24-26 lbs boost, if I wanted to go that far. I did not and do not plan to increase my boost to those levels. I may increase the nitrous shot from 100 to 150 at some point, maybe.........But honestly my car drives absolutely great on the street and at the track. I also know that is because of Scott Beer's tuning. AL's motor and Scott's tune has been an incredible combination for me. I could not be more pleased with my decision and setup. Go with your heart Ed.. You know how you drive, race and more. I had lengthy discussions with AL before having him go ahead with my motor. Make a "personal" decision on your motor and your driving. Al will do you right.

[Pops]

Al recommended for me the 9.3:1 compression for my motor At the time I told him I wanted the motor to be able to handle 24-26 lbs boost, if I wanted to go that far. I did not and do not plan to increase my boost to those levels. I may increase the nitrous shot from 100 to 150 at some point, maybe.........But honestly my car drives absolutely great on the street and at the track. I also know that is because of Scott Beer's tuning. AL's motor and Scott's tune has been an incredible combination for me. I could not be more pleased with my decision and setup. Go with your heart Ed.. You know how you drive, race and more. I had lengthy discussions with AL before having him go ahead with my motor. Make a "personal" decision on your motor and your driving. Al will do you right.

Tom hits it right in the head! Ask questions and then make the decision. Good luck Ed as we are all rooting for you!

[Blackmobile]

Tom hits it right in the head! Ask questions and then make the decision. Good luck Ed as we are all rooting for you!

Thanks for all the info guys. I'll need all the input I can get to make the right choices. And I thought it was just step on the peddle and GO.

[sailsmen]

As respects the Cobra Motors, they were developed back in 1991 on a short time table.

They had to go with what they knew worked w/ an S/C and that was a forged, iron block w/ low compression. The computer tuning power we have today was not available in 1992.

It was only recently that high compression, over 9 to 1, in S/C motors has proven to develop more safe power than low compression.

A Cobra Reman Long Block w/ a warranty list for $4,500-$5,200 depending on zip code. They are readily available. The only catch is they want a "Cobra" core back. In many cases they have agreed to accept a Marauder Core.

For myself and many others the Cobra Reman Long Block is an excellent choice. They are good for 600RWHP.

Eventually I will get mine up to the 600RWHP mark. For now my race tune at ~541RWHP meets my needs.

[magindat]

While this is a healthy and seemingly polite discussion, bear in mind, this is only the regurgitation of preliminary inspection and musing at possibilities. The autopsy is not in and no decisions have been made. Hopefully pictures will begin and more info and fodder for discussion will be available Monday afternoon.

Seems to me a forged bottom end, slightly more compression and Dennis' tuning should net more power than Billy's set up (NOT KNOCKING HIS SETUP AT ALL, JUST COMPARING). I'm sure Ed would be thrilled with those power levels on top of a tough as nails motor.

Um, start saving up for rim widening and tires, Ed.

More info Monday.

[Blackmobile]

Um, start saving up for rim widening and tires, Ed.

More info Monday.

I was just talking about that last night. My setup with ~470 RWHP made my KDW2's seem like jello on the road. With any upgrade in power I would revise the description to Pudding for tread.