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  #1  
Old 12-03-2005, 02:19 PM
TripleTransAm
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Alternator: clutched or not?

My 1st MM was assembled in mid Feb 2003. I dug out this photo of the front of the motor when I'd had it about a month, tops.



Is this the clutched alternator that early 2003 cars got? I understand the PCM calibrations from factory (all four?) never took advantage of this function?

My 2nd MM's alternator looks 100% the same. BUT... when I got my alternator replaced last month on the 1st MM, the alternator that was put on there appears to look the same except for that black 'disk' up front (the one with the white dab of paint pointing down to the crankshaft hub). There is no such disk on the replacement alternator... I can see the big nut holding on the pulley.

Question: did they replace my clutched alternator with a non-clutched unit or is that black disk simply a plastic cover?
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  #2  
Old 12-03-2005, 02:24 PM
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Plastic cover!! You can pop it off and see the bearin assembly
behind it..
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  #3  
Old 12-03-2005, 02:56 PM
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My 03A had the clutch alternator. When I had it replaced under warranty about June 04 they put on a standard alternator. If you have the clutch alternator, watch your amp gauge under WOT, it will go down.
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  #4  
Old 12-03-2005, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleTransAm
Question: did they replace my clutched alternator with a non-clutched unit or is that black disk simply a plastic cover?
Answer: Yes, somewhere in time, the clutched altenator was removed from the production line. I can't say if it was part of the 300B decontenting, or, at the start of '04 production, but it left us. Replacement altenators do not have the clutch units. And, yes, it's a plastic cap covering the bearing nut.

Anyone with a clutched altenator and SCT tuning, can have the clutch function turned off, and the altenator will produce power under WOT. Anyone with a Trilogy kit, got a non-clutched replacement pulley with the kit.

Some will say that removing the clutch function (either method) will result in belt noise (or worse hazzards) when you get up off the throttle suddenly at high RPM. I agree with the "or worse hazzards", this is an easy way to blow an engine.
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  #5  
Old 12-03-2005, 05:26 PM
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Well, my understanding of the whole thing is a little different so here goes:
The '03 300A and possibly the 300B had the one-way clutch on the alternator. The black cover on the pulley in the picture is commonly in place on the ones with a clutch. The function of the alternator shutoff at WOT is totally thru the PCM and the clutch has absolutely nothing to do with it. The function of the one way clutch is to reduce belt bouncing, slipping, squealing in sudden engine deceleration by allowing the alternator to freewheel. The reason for the Trilogy kit replacing the pulley with a non-clutched one is that the alternator rotates in the reverse direction with the Trilogy kit so the one way clutch would essentially always slip. Bottom line, the clutch is not important.
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$1800 and it was worse than when he started!

Brian (FordNut) FPG # 1458 of 7838
03 MM 300A (Lotsa mods, 130k mi) was 303rwhp/318rwtq N/A
then 476/410 D1SC ProCharged on stock block
then 660/555 D1SC PC on 5.3 wet sleeved Teksid alum big bore stroker
then 365/369 N/A on 5.3 wet sleeved Teksid alum big bore stroker
Now 751/617 3.4L Whipple on 5.3 Boss5.0 iron big bore stroker

03 MM 300B Silver (Mostly stock, wife's car, 300k mi) FPG # 7053 of 7838 or 49 of 417 SB
03 MM 300B Silver, Stock, 50k mi FPG # 7134 of 7838 or 89 of 417 SB
01 F150
00 F150 4x4
68 Stang FB (70 351C 4V, 4 wheel discs, project car)

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  #6  
Old 12-03-2005, 05:40 PM
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Does this mean that perhaps someone out there would like to have my never been used alternator u/d pulley?
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  #7  
Old 12-03-2005, 06:41 PM
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FordNut's description is exactly correct.

All Marauders that came from the factory had the clutched alternator pulley. No replacement alternators came with the clutched pulley. So, if you see the black cap, it is clutched. If you see a big nut, it is a replacement alternator.
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2005, 07:39 PM
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Wait one damn second...

I posted this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergntMac
Answer: Yes, somewhere in time, the clutched altenator was removed from the production line. I can't say if it was part of the 300B decontenting, or, at the start of '04 production, but it left us. Replacement altenators do not have the clutch. And, yes, it's a plastic cap covering the bearing nut.

Anyone with a clutched altenator and SCT tuning, can have the clutch function turned off, and the altenator will produce power under WOT.

Anyone with a Trilogy kit, got a non-clutched replacement pulley with the kit.

Some will say that removing the clutch function (either method) will result in belt noise (or worse hazzards) when you get up off the throttle suddenly at high RPM. I agree with this "or worse hazzards", this is an easy way to blow an engine.
Then Brian posts this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by FordNut
Well, my understanding of the whole thing is a little different so here goes:
The '03 300A and possibly the 300B had the one-way clutch on the alternator. The black cover on the pulley in the picture is commonly in place on the ones with a clutch. The function of the alternator shutoff at WOT is totally thru the PCM and the clutch has absolutely nothing to do with it. The function of the one way clutch is to reduce belt bouncing, slipping, squealing in sudden engine deceleration by allowing the alternator to freewheel. The reason for the Trilogy kit replacing the pulley with a non-clutched one is that the alternator rotates in the reverse direction with the Trilogy kit so the one way clutch would essentially always slip. Bottom line, the clutch is not important.
So, which one of us is right? Or, wrong? Are we not both explaining the same thing? So...Why this post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by carfixer
FordNut's description is exactly correct. All Marauders that came from the factory had the clutched alternator pulley. No replacement alternators came with the clutched pulley. So, if you see the black cap, it is clutched. If you see a big nut, it is a replacement alternator.
Y'all tell me...If I did not post a correct answer to the question as posed, show me why?
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  #9  
Old 12-03-2005, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergntMac
Wait one damn second...

I posted this... Then Brian posts this... So, which one of us is right? Or, wrong? Are we not both explaining the same thing? So...Why this post?

Y'all tell me...If I did not post a correct answer to the question as posed, show me why?

Answer: All MM's left the factory with the clutched pulley, not just some "A"s and "B"s. Not just '03. All of em. '03 and '04.

Answer: The only function of the clutched pulley is to reduce the possibility of belt noise on heavy accel and decel, exactly as FordNut replied.

Edit: added this little copy and paste from the Ford service manual

All Marauder 4.6L 4V applications are equipped with a one-way clutch (OWC) in the generator pulley. The OWC pulley temporarily disengages the generator rotor from the front end accessory drive (FEAD) system during high acceleration/deceleration rates on the engine, which may increase belt life and decrease belt chirp. A new OWC pulley and generator/voltage regulator must be installed as an assembly.
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Last edited by carfixer; 12-03-2005 at 08:13 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-03-2005, 08:19 PM
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My company car, an 04 CVPI, also has a clutched altenator. FYI.

Mac, can you elaborate on this comment?

Some will say that removing the clutch function (either method) will result in belt noise (or worse hazzards) when you get up off the throttle suddenly at high RPM. I agree with the "or worse hazzards", this is an easy way to blow an engine.

Thanks
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  #11  
Old 12-03-2005, 08:37 PM
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Interesting Parallel

Knowing that my Marauder had a clutched alternator, I was surprised to find that the alternator in my new SSR didn't have one. Unpleasantly surprised, because there was a loud belt chirp/squeel on the 1-2 shift under WOT, a shorter chirp at the 2-3. Chevrolet had issued a TSB, the fix was to replace the alternator with a clutched alternator. My truck is an early '05 model year build, there were a set of running changes made the month after mine left the plant. Apparently the belt chirp wasn't an issue with the 5.3, but more powerful 6.0 LS2 it was.

The visial difference between the two is a black cover on the pully of the clutched alternator, just like the Marauder.

Interestingly, according to Chevy engineers, the belt squeel (which happens only at WOT) is not a durability issue, though they certainly don't hesitate to pay the dealer to change it out for free under warranty.
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2005, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergntMac
Wait one damn second...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergntMac

.....Y'all tell me...If I did not post a correct answer to the question as posed, show me why?


You know....I was thinking the exact same thing.
You both answered near exactly the same.

Perhaps Fordnut has you on his 'ignore' list and didn't see your post that basically said the same thing only didn't start out leaving one to think that "his understanding is different in some way."

Yeah...that's the ticket.
Anyway...my understanding is exactly what you both said.
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2005, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRUZTAKER

You know....I was thinking the exact same thing.
You both answered near exactly the same.

Perhaps Fordnut has you on his 'ignore' list and didn't see your post that basically said the same thing only didn't start out leaving one to think that "his understanding is different in some way."

Yeah...that's the ticket.
Anyway...my understanding is exactly what you both said.
but we didn't say the same thing did we?
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Thanks to Darrin @ BC Automotive:
$1800 and it was worse than when he started!

Brian (FordNut) FPG # 1458 of 7838
03 MM 300A (Lotsa mods, 130k mi) was 303rwhp/318rwtq N/A
then 476/410 D1SC ProCharged on stock block
then 660/555 D1SC PC on 5.3 wet sleeved Teksid alum big bore stroker
then 365/369 N/A on 5.3 wet sleeved Teksid alum big bore stroker
Now 751/617 3.4L Whipple on 5.3 Boss5.0 iron big bore stroker

03 MM 300B Silver (Mostly stock, wife's car, 300k mi) FPG # 7053 of 7838 or 49 of 417 SB
03 MM 300B Silver, Stock, 50k mi FPG # 7134 of 7838 or 89 of 417 SB
01 F150
00 F150 4x4
68 Stang FB (70 351C 4V, 4 wheel discs, project car)

Mods listed here (some items not current): FordNut's Mods
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2005, 09:07 PM
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Yes.

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  #15  
Old 12-03-2005, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergntMac
Wait one damn second...

I posted this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SergntMac
Answer: Yes, somewhere in time, the clutched altenator was removed from the production line. I can't say if it was part of the 300B decontenting, or, at the start of '04 production, but it left us. Replacement altenators do not have the clutch units. And, yes, it's a plastic cap covering the bearing nut.

Anyone with a clutched altenator and SCT tuning, can have the clutch function turned off, and the altenator will produce power under WOT. Anyone with a Trilogy kit, got a non-clutched replacement pulley with the kit.

Some will say that removing the clutch function (either method) will result in belt noise (or worse hazzards) when you get up off the throttle suddenly at high RPM. I agree with the "or worse hazzards", this is an easy way to blow an engine.
Then Brian posts this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FordNut
Well, my understanding of the whole thing is a little different so here goes:
The '03 300A and possibly the 300B had the one-way clutch on the alternator. The black cover on the pulley in the picture is commonly in place on the ones with a clutch. The function of the alternator shutoff at WOT is totally thru the PCM and the clutch has absolutely nothing to do with it. The function of the one way clutch is to reduce belt bouncing, slipping, squealing in sudden engine deceleration by allowing the alternator to freewheel. The reason for the Trilogy kit replacing the pulley with a non-clutched one is that the alternator rotates in the reverse direction with the Trilogy kit so the one way clutch would essentially always slip. Bottom line, the clutch is not important.
So, which one of us is right? Or, wrong? Are we not both explaining the same thing? So...Why this post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by carfixer
FordNut's description is exactly correct.

All Marauders that came from the factory had the clutched alternator pulley. No replacement alternators came with the clutched pulley. So, if you see the black cap, it is clutched. If you see a big nut, it is a replacement alternator.
Y'all tell me...If I did not post a correct answer to the question as posed, show me why?
Alrighty, here is where we are agreeing and disagreeing:

We all agree that the clutched alternator was deleted at some point, whether it was during production or on replacement units is irrelevant because the clutch is not important. If there is a black cover on the pulley, it has the one-way clutch.

Mac, we disagree about how the alternator is turned off with programming. The alternator can be turned off at WOT with the PCM but it has nothing to do with the clutch. The PCM turns off the alternator by way of the regulator. The only purpose of the mechanical one-way clutch is to reduce belt noise by allowing the alternator to freewheel on engine deceleration.

Mac, I disagree with your comment that "worse hazards" such as a blown engine could occur if the clutch is removed, both because of the fact it is not used at all on the Trilogy cars and because my car has not had the clutch for approximately 40 k miles. It was removed when I installed the 8-rib pulley system. After the clutch was removed, my program still turned off the alternator at WOT until I had that feature changed with the supercharger installation.

Hope this clears it up a bit.
__________________
Thanks to Darrin @ BC Automotive:
$1800 and it was worse than when he started!

Brian (FordNut) FPG # 1458 of 7838
03 MM 300A (Lotsa mods, 130k mi) was 303rwhp/318rwtq N/A
then 476/410 D1SC ProCharged on stock block
then 660/555 D1SC PC on 5.3 wet sleeved Teksid alum big bore stroker
then 365/369 N/A on 5.3 wet sleeved Teksid alum big bore stroker
Now 751/617 3.4L Whipple on 5.3 Boss5.0 iron big bore stroker

03 MM 300B Silver (Mostly stock, wife's car, 300k mi) FPG # 7053 of 7838 or 49 of 417 SB
03 MM 300B Silver, Stock, 50k mi FPG # 7134 of 7838 or 89 of 417 SB
01 F150
00 F150 4x4
68 Stang FB (70 351C 4V, 4 wheel discs, project car)

Mods listed here (some items not current): FordNut's Mods
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